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there are so many different scenarios that are going on
maybe lbj is pulling a fast one on the rest of the league
maybe he's trying to make it dramatic, and make himself the biggest hero for cleveland, maybe he wants to give the city a giant boost. every talking head has him leaving, everyone is knocking cleveland, if he stays, cleveland fans have every right to point and laugh at the media
maybe he's still trying to convince bosh
maybe he's gone?
maybe he's truly going to see what these teams have to offer, hear what they have to say, hear what the cavs have to say, and weigh his options, and make a good decision.
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I hear ya man. I'm bummed out about it though. - Sorry, but my logic tells me that he's leaving. I'm ticked about it also. This is so much bigger than Jim Thome, Alberte Belle, and Manny Ramirez leaving.
To me, Lebron leaving is comparable to when the Browns left. - He is the franchise. As much as we hate to admit it, Lebron is the biggest and best personality to ever wear any sort of Cleveland uniform.
This sucks.
But....but.....but.....
If he stays, it will be awesome. - Talked about and celebrated all over Ohio. Tickets will sell out again, and Cleveland will get some positive national press.
He's got a lot in his hands right now. - It's unfair for a 25 year old kid to have to deal with, but it's true.
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no doubt, a lot to ask for from one person, especially a guy who's only 25
but again, this team, the people knocking, were made up of moves ok'd by lebron.
the cavs were never allowed to "clear space" like the knicks and bulls have done. and i believe that will be taken into consideration.
if he leaves, he will be scarred for life. maybe he won't care? but he'll be viewed as a traitor in his own hometown, and home state.
and i think he'd even lose some fans that aren't necassarily cavs fans. despite the fact that people love to jab cleveland, there is a pretty decent amount of people out there who like the story of a mega star playing in his tiny hometown, and what it would mean for him to end a 45+ year drought, on top of winning the franchise's first title.
i say, if you're ok with what people are gonna feel and say about you, if you bolt like this, after the way everything ended, the way you hinted at staying during the year, the way you told larry king that cleveland had an edge, then go. better you than me.
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Agreed dude is young but if he goes, game 4 and game 5 will haunt him the rest of his days.
In game 5 against the pistons he was able to do it because he rplayed like he was going to will his team to win or die trying. In game against boston he played like he was afraid to fall short so he tried to save face. He could have went 0-30 that night and people would have forgiven him but the way he just watched that crap go down was gutless. No other way to say it.
How come nothing has been said about the elbow now that the season is over? kind of wierd dont you think?
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You know, it's a tough spot to be in no matter what team or city we're talking about.
If his lifelong dream was to live in NY and play for the Knicks in MSG, should we really hold it against him if he were to follow that?
If he does, a franchise will be ruined and an entire fanbase/city will dispise him.
So, is it his responsibility to not crush the Cavs?
Dang......I just want it to be all over.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Like I said, If LeBron does indeed leave. We won't be in a hell hole like the Knicks and Nets were. We would just have to tank it for maybe 2 years. Just enough to get good players in the draft. We could also trade Jamison and Mo in the last year of there contract because they would equal about 24 mil in cap space which is extremely valuable. We could also let there contracts run up in 2 years. That way we can do basically what every team is doing now. So not all hope is lost gentlemen for the future. It just depends on what our front office does. Lets pray they don't overpay guys like Toronto and Detroit did.
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If this team falls are part, we will be at the bottom for a lot more than 2 years. It's just the Cleveland way. 
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Ummm no, we'll have a lot of money to spend max contracts on. Hopefully our rookies will show some promise by then.
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How come nothing has been said about the elbow now that the season is over? kind of wierd dont you think?
last i heard was ferry, while still the gm, said that if the injury had happened during the regular season, he would have been put on the shelf for 2-3 weeks.
as far as the cavs sucking if lbj left, i think they'd be bad for a few years, but after that, i think they'd get back in the mix, but only the luck of the draw with the nba draft will tell ya what kinda team ya got. but i believe in gilbert, and as long as he's running the cavs, they are going to at least try.
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It just depends on what our front office does. Lets pray they don't overpay guys like Toronto and Detroit did.
we need a patient owner if LeBron leaves. that's the one thing that worries me about gilbert. he doesn't seem like the patient type.
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Here is how I see it man: If Lebron would have signed any sort of extension a month ago, or a year ago, or any time prior to July 1, we would have a coach by now, we would know what sort of team we have going forward. - More importantly, on July 1 we could have been looking for a top-notch free agent to pair up with Lebron. - We would be in a much, much, more comfortable position if Lebron would have signed an extension prior to July 1.
Instead Lebron is opting for free agency. As a result, we don't have a top-notch coach, we can't explore trades, we can't focus on any other free agents, we have little stability, our owner doesn't know what the value of his team is so he can't give our GM permission to get a free agent or two. - We don't know where we stand.
Essentially, if Lebron does resign with us on or after July 1, many people are going to wonder why he didn't do it earlier so that instead of focusing on him we could have been focusing on the team.
It makes no sense for Lebron to sign with us after July 1. - He gets nothing out of it and we will be worse for it.
My logic leads me to believe this: Lebron is not resigning with us.
I agree Muni....his actions work against the team. If he was a team player, this would all be resolved and players and coaches would be fighting each other to join up.
Not only is the guy leaving, he is screwing us.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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looks like there will be no lebron tour, he is going to make these teams meet him on netural ground espn James' manager: No plans for tour By Chris Broussard ESPN The Magazine Archive All the elaborate recruiting plans for LeBron James will have to change. James will not go on a recruiting tour, his longtime business manager Maverick Carter told ESPN.com Friday. "LeBron is not going on a tour," Carter said. "He never planned to go on a tour and has not been a part of any team's plans for a recruiting trip." Instead, the Cleveland Cavaliers' superstar will visit with individual clubs at a neutral site once the free-agency period begins July 1. James' decision throws a monkey wrench in the plans of several clubs that hoped to sell him on non-basketball-related enticements such as the vibrancy of their city, the social life it may afford or the A-list celebrities that support their teams. James, the most coveted player in this historic free-agent class, wants the focus to be on basketball and doesn't want it to turn into a spectacle. Clubs were made aware of James' decision on Wednesday and many went into scramble mode. The New York Knicks, who were planning a spectacular, celebrity-laden dinner cooked by a world-renowned chef for James on July 1, quickly cancelled it and held an emergency Plan B, according to two sources. The Knicks, who also planned to give James a tour of New York City, are going ahead with plans to bring Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh on visits to New York, according to sources, but they will have to meet with their top target, James, on neutral turf. It is not known where James will meet with clubs, but Carter said it will not be at James' home in suburban Akron. James has already met with Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert, who traveled to Akron last week along with members of Cleveland's front office to visit the All-Star forward. On Thursday, general manager Chris Grant refused to characterize the team's discussions with James. "We're a family here," Grant said. There's a chance the Cavs will meet with James again before he hits the open market, Grant said. Cleveland can offer James up to $30 million more than any other team on a maximum-length contract. James has not given any indication which way he's leaning. He has spent his entire career with the Cavs, who were knocked out of the playoffs in the second round by Boston. James has said winning is the most important factor in choosing his next team. Grant wouldn't divulge any special plans by the Cavs to woo James. "We have a plan and we will execute it," he said.
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now that is a gangster move. i applaud it no matter his overall intentions.
LeBron doesn't travel for you, you travel for LeBron.
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I bet he doesn't want it to become a spectacle... 
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that would be so terrible if it turned into a spectacle. /sarcasm
i also heard a report, and i don't have a link or anything that lebron's people came out and denied that jalen rose thing. can someone back that up for me??
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I don't think anyone needs a link to know jalen rose is full of it.
not just in this instance
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If Lebron signs with us, I'm sure we will get Bosh. Broussard said today James wants to play for a team that could win 7 chgampionships in 10 years. Since Bosh is close to his age, it makes perfect sense to think Bosh and Lebron will be a combo package.
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If Lebron signs with us, I'm sure we will get Bosh. Broussard said today James wants to play for a team that could win 7 chgampionships in 10 years. Since Bosh is close to his age, it makes perfect sense to think Bosh and Lebron will be a combo package.
I hope Chris Grant is being real nice with Colangelo. We need him to play nice to make that happen.
If Bosh goes to a team with cap-space, there is no reason for Toronto to not sign-n-trade (at worst they could take the trade exemption and run). If he comes to a team without cap space (Cavs), then they will have to like the players/contracts they are getting back for him.
Let's all hope they are in love with Antawn.
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Clubs were made aware of James' decision on Wednesday and many went into scramble mode. The New York Knicks, who were planning a spectacular, celebrity-laden dinner cooked by a world-renowned chef for James on July 1, quickly cancelled it and held an emergency Plan B, according to two sources.
Ok... this makes no sense. The NY Knicks would not have simply planned an elaborate dinner for Lebron without confirming that Lebron would be there. - I mean, why in the world would the Knicks plan something like that without confirming that Lebron and co. would be there? - They cancelled an already planned dinner and went to plan B? - Ummmm no.
If the Knicks denied the whole thing I would simply consider it a rumour.
However, because Lebron's crew, in response to the story, came out and said that Lebron would not be meeting with anybody, I'll go ahead and say that this story is very, very, real. Matter of fact, this story is so real that Lebron and co. actually responded to it. - They're response tells me that they don't want the Knicks to get in trouble for tampering.
Lebron is going to the Knicks folks.
-I hope I look like a complete idiot in a few weeks for that assertion.
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What I am afraid of is this ....
Lebron could re-sign with the Cavaliers for more money than any other team can pay. That
max deal amount goes down on the 1st. There is nothing that he, the Cavaliers, or anyone else can do about it.
If he were leaning strongly towards staying here, it would make no sense for him to wait past the 30th of June. I mean .. he should have an idea of what the rest of the league is like. Players talk ...... agents talk ..... there really aren't many secrets. Anyone and everyone associated with any team will fawn all over him. They will all proclaim their fervent desire to build a championship team, and to do whatever that takes to accomplish.
But he already has that in Cleveland. Gilbert has shown a desire for a championship team, and a desire to do whatever it takes to accomplish that.
Is some other team somehow going to work harder and spend more than the Cavaliers have? I doubt it.
So, if it doesn't come down to winning ..... or organization ..... or ownership ...... ot loyalty ...... then what does it come down to? Maybe Lebron wants to live under the bright lights. Maybe he wants to live in the hustle and bustle of a "major" city. Who knows?
The funny thing is ..... I think that this is exactly what Gilbert is trying to build in Cleveland as well. I would bet that casinos are just one step in his "master plan".
Oh well ... we'll know what is going to happen soon enough. Hopefully Cleveland doesn't have another heartbreak moment on the way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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actually, earlier this week Walsh came out and said that they didn't know when LeBron would be coming to NYC and that they were just planning their approach.
LeBron can pretty much tell them to do whatever he wants right now. They are pursuing him, not the other way around.
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What I am afraid of is this ....
Lebron could re-sign with the Cavaliers for more money than any other team can pay. That max deal amount goes down on the 1st. There is nothing that he, the Cavaliers, or anyone else can do about it.
No it doesn't. Where did you hear that?
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why in the world would the Knicks plan something like that without confirming that Lebron and co. would be there?
For the same reason they display photoshopped pictures of LeBron in Knicks gear all over their city? Knicks fans can't understand why anyone wouldn't want to come there, even though nobody does, so to them its a foregone conclusion. I'm not going to read that much into it.
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What I am afraid of is this ....
Lebron could re-sign with the Cavaliers for more money than any other team can pay. That max deal amount goes down on the 1st. There is nothing that he, the Cavaliers, or anyone else can do about it.
No it doesn't. Where did you hear that?
It certainly does.
Each one of the premium free agent players will lose money by becoming free agents. The max deal goes down on the same date they become free agents ... so even if they re-sign with their old teams, they cannot get that same deal. They will get a lower deal, because the new cap will be in place at that time.
Source
If James goes ahead and becomes a free agent it will cost him more than $2 million in salary over the next three years alone -- even if he re-signs with the Cavs. It could cost him up to $4 million over the next three seasons if he decides to sign with another team.
And .......
If James were to pick up his option with the Cavs for next season, the deadline for which is June 30, he would earn $17.1 million. If he lets that contract end and re-starts after July 1, he's likely to make about $16.5 million.
Over the long term, this gulf only widens when the yearly salaries are compared. If James were sign an extension to his current contract June 30, he would make nearly $19 million in the 2011-12 season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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the nba is losing money big time. The haves and have-nots in basketball is considerable. I believe this is the 2nd year in a row that the cap has gone down. First time that occured in nba history.
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Oh, your wording confused me ... or maybe you are misunderstanding it. The "max deal" still applies. Teams with the Bird rights can still offer a larger max deal than other teams. What Lebron would be losing out on is bigger money for one year from a contract extension. He has a player option for this upcoming year ... and could make more for one year, because his current contract is based on a salary cap figure from years ago, rather than the small cap number of this year. All max contracts are based on a percentage of the salary cap in the year they sign.
He'd forgo the larger salary for one year, but he can still sign a larger long-term, max deal with the Cavs after July 1st.
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Lebron is going to the Knicks folks.
No, he's more likely to go to the bulls
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You'd have to be a world class idiot to play for the Knicks by choice if you're an NBA caliber player. I'd jump at the chance to make league minimum personally  but for a superstar that's probably the team at the bottom of my list. They have a terrible front office and matching coach, no team whatsoever, and no draft picks any time soon to build one. It would be LeBron, maybe another superstar, and then guys like me but a foot taller. At best they're fighting for the last few playoff spots on the backs of a LeBron/Bosh combo and getting mid first round draft picks to ensure they rot in obscurity for the next decade. The Knicks are a wasteland. I think its about 70/30 for Cleveland/Chicago at this point.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Ummm no, we'll have a lot of money to spend max contracts on. Hopefully our rookies will show some promise by then.
It took 3 years to make the playoffs with lebron. So we sit at the bottom for 2-3 years, sign some big name and take another 2-3 years to become respectable. It's going to be 5+years before we'd have a shot again. Probably longer because...well...this is Cleveland and nothing ever works out for us.
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It took 3 years to make the playoffs with lebron.
Yeah because we had REALLY bad contracts and crappy talent.
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So we sit at the bottom for 2-3 years, sign some big name and take another 2-3 years to become respectable.
You're completely ignoring what I'm saying. If we get some good rookies then add some more great talent around them it won't take 5 years. It's only taken Oklahoma City 3 years to become a real threat already.
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It's going to be 5+years before we'd have a shot again. Probably longer because...well...this is Cleveland and nothing ever works out for us.
Okay keep sulking and feeling bad for cleveland 
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I think its about 70/30 for Cleveland/Chicago at this point.
I have to disagree, I'm 99% sure LeBron is heading to Chicago at this point.
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you forgot to mention that we also traded away all our draft picks for welsch and palacio.
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I'm just being a realist. Part of that is taking the "Cleveland factor" into account. I just don't see any way we will turn this this around in 2 years.
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J/C I think LBJ is gone and I think the Cavs know it. Look at it this way, Lebron wants to win a championship...we are constantly being told that. Cleveland doesn't have a coach now and nobody knows if anybody from the Cavs even bothered to watch the draft. Doing nothing in the draft and being without a coach doesn't sound very 'trying to win a championship' to me 
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J/C
I think LBJ is gone and I think the Cavs know it.
Look at it this way, Lebron wants to win a championship...we are constantly being told that. Cleveland doesn't have a coach now and nobody knows if anybody from the Cavs even bothered to watch the draft. Doing nothing in the draft and being without a coach doesn't sound very 'trying to win a championship' to me
If they held on to tradable pieces in order to bring on another star quality player, then I'd rather see that than making trades just to get into the bottom of the draft.
I have a feeling that this is going to go one of 2 ways ..... either we somehow wind up with Lebron and another guy like Bosh ....... or we wind uo with nothing. Given Gilbert's determination and willingness to spend and do whatever it takes ...... I'm cautiously leaning towards the 2nd.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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J/C
I think LBJ is gone and I think the Cavs know it.
Look at it this way, Lebron wants to win a championship...we are constantly being told that. Cleveland doesn't have a coach now and nobody knows if anybody from the Cavs even bothered to watch the draft. Doing nothing in the draft and being without a coach doesn't sound very 'trying to win a championship' to me
If they held on to tradable pieces in order to bring on another star quality player, then I'd rather see that than making trades just to get into the bottom of the draft.
I have a feeling that this is going to go one of 2 ways ..... either we somehow wind up with Lebron and another guy like Bosh ....... or we wind uo with nothing. Given Gilbert's determination and willingness to spend and do whatever it takes ...... I'm cautiously leaning towards the 2nd.
i agree about us holding our assets. if you're gonna land a bosh or some other huge huge name, you are going to need most of them. and according to windy nobody wanted to sell picks straight up for money, everyone wanted talent/valuable contracts (like delonte)
even though we all wanna see this team build properly, lebron is not gonna stay because we got some dude late in the first or at any point in the second round.
i believe the cavs have a package put together that toronto would take, all they need is lbj and bosh on the same page. who knows if that's happening.
i think you can spin the lebron dialing down free agency a few ways...
either he's leaning more towards staying home now and doesn't wanna "lead anyone on" more than they already have.
or, he doesn't wanna jack up his hometown by having his visits to these cities all over bspn and other media outlets, and will leave the cavs, and cleveland, as quietly as possible, which at this point isn't going to be any less quiet. everyone is looking his way. so maybe the first theory is the true one, we can only hope.
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I think that if the Cavaliers can work out the principles of a Jamison for Bosh deal, Lebron is as good as re-signed. Obviously there would be other pieces involved ...... but these would be the main players.
I also think it could be done. I don't know precisely how things work as far as 1 team playing part of a player's salary .... but I'm sure that Gilbert would thrown in a few million to keep Lebron in a Cavaliers uniform.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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in my opinion, i think they would take jamison if we we took on hedo or caulderon with bosh... jamison's deal is 2 years and i think both of those guys are longer (i think)
plus jamison isn't really that bad of a player, he went to a team with ridiculous expectations. and then was asked to deal with a rejuvenated kevin garnett.
if we do keep him in the bosh trade. i consider puting him at the 3 and lbj at the point and going that way (bosh at the 4, and whatever u can do to fit in a center)
not sure how the salaries would match up. but the cavs don't have a ton of long term deals.
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I have to disagree, I'm 99% sure LeBron is heading to Chicago at this point.
I don't think its a sure thing that he is heading to Chicago.
1. Bulls: Derrick Rose, Cavs: Mo. Adv: Bulls
2. Bulls: Taj Gibson, Cavs: JJ Hickson. Adv: Push. Even though they are different players, both play the same position, are young, and both have high ceilings.
3. Bulls: Luol Deng, Cavs: Antawn Jamison. Adv: Push. Deng is younger; Jamison has a lot of playoff experience.
4. Bulls: Noah, Cavs: Andy. Adv: Push. Very similar energy players.
5. Bulls Bench: No one, Cavs Bench: West, Gibson, Moon, Powe. Adv: Cavs. All of of these players have significant playoff experience.
6. Bulls coach: Thibodeau. Cavs coach: Scott or Shaw. Adv: Cavs. Thibodeau would not even have been considered by his own team to replace Doc Rivers. Scott is a former coach of the year, Shaw was the heir apparent to Phil Jackson. Both are former players with multiple rings (something Lebron said he'd like to see).
7. Give the Cavs organization a nod over the Bulls. Gilbert willing to go over luxury tax, Reinsdorf hasn't exhibited this lately. Bulls GM can't seem to get along with coaches. Grant is unproven, but highly regarded throughout the league. If the Bulls were really planning this out so carefully, I don't think they would've dumped Hinrich only to come up about $1 mill short of being able to sign 2 maxes. Seems like a desperate move to me, trying to keep pace with Miami. Also, these kind of complete dumps are very risky; 2 or 3 of these 4 teams (NY, NJ, Chi, Miami) are going to be left with a stripped down roster and nothing to show for it. The way Chicago hired their coach also makes me scratch my head; maybe it is just the way it was portrayed, but they didn't seem to do much of a search, they seemed to rush the Thibodeau hire.
8. Cavs are also in a better position with regards to Bosh. Bosh really wants to do a sign and trade as he doesn't make the endorsement money that Lebron and DWade do. The Raptors will want something in return. I can't see them just letting Bosh walk with nothing to show for it other than cap space. It's much harder to build through the draft than it is to take some guys right now with experience.
Cleveland can offer cap relief (West, Telfair), a good, proven NBA player with playoff experience (Mo, Andy, Jamison), and/or a high potential young post player (Hickson) in some combination. The other teams have done so much salary dumping, they don't have much of anything to offer in return other than the salary relief.
JMO, but in summary, the Bulls have a better PG; the Cavs have a better bench, organization, chance to get Bosh, and I think they will end up with a better coach. I really think if Lebron is keeping score, he would be leaning towards the Cavs. This is looking just at basketball, b/c that is all that I believe Lebron is interested in.
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i believe the cavs have a package put together that toronto would take, all they need is lbj and bosh on the same page. who knows if that's happening.
I agree here. And I don't wanna know if this is happening. B/c if we did know this and it were public knowledge, the Cavs would likely get smacked with a tampering charge, as Bosh is still technically part of the Raptors organization and LBJ is part of the Cavs organization.
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i think you can spin the lebron dialing down free agency a few ways...
either he's leaning more towards staying home now and doesn't wanna "lead anyone on" more than they already have.
or, he doesn't wanna jack up his hometown by having his visits to these cities all over bspn and other media outlets, and will leave the cavs, and cleveland, as quietly as possible, which at this point isn't going to be any less quiet. everyone is looking his way. so maybe the first theory is the true one, we can only hope.
I agree with this, there is no way to hide if he ends up leaving Cleveland. My first thought on this was that he really does care only about basketball. All the other stuff can be forgotten; the nightlife, the other celebrities, etc. And he has put the onus on these other teams. They have to now come to him and prove to him how much better they are than Cleveland's basketball situation. JMO, but I think this is good for the Cavs.
As far as leading anyone on, I agree with your quotation marks. I don't blame Lebron for this. He is allowed to keep his options open. The media has created the "leading on" by the incessant stream of crap journalism coming out of NY, ESPN, and their reliance on World Wide Wes as a credible source. Lebron has never tipped his cap. He has maintained from the beginning that he will be exploring his options. His plan seems the same now as it did before. The Knicks set up this dinner; LBJ didn't.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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if we do keep him in the bosh trade. i consider puting him at the 3 and lbj at the point and going that way (bosh at the 4, and whatever u can do to fit in a center)
I like LBJ at the point as well if we keep Jamison. He would be a matchup nightmare, just like Magic was for the Lakers. He is quick enough to guard the quick PGs, and so big, he could post at any time. He can penetrate, and he is the best passer on the team. I think it would be the best use of all of his talents, rather than having him play off the ball, where he doesn't get to use his passing abilites as much.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs offseason for the week of
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