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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826 |
He's got a point daman - the majority of citizens did NOT want this health care reform.
Health care reform? Yes - but not this bloated mess that even today the people that voted on it can't tell you what it does or doesn't do.
Plus, it did not address anything about cost. All it said was "you will have it, your employer will pay for it, and if not, we'll fine them, and if you don't have it, we will fine you." It does not address costs at all - just how much control and fining power the gov't. will have.
The law of unintended consequences. Our gov't. should head the list. For every action they take, there are numerous counter actions that hurt even more.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144 |
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I'm not defending the man..,
 You win!!!! First place for "most inaccurate post of the week".
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He wasn't exactly handed a dozen roses to deal with.. Not that any president before him was either, but this mess is unprecidented.
He wasn't handed roses, he was handed a TRILLION frickin' dollars of our money. Now talk about unprecedented. Just what do we have to show for it? He's now got the gall to ask for more. When are you going to wake up?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,962
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,962 |
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Truth is, things change, new info comes to light, and if your a good leader, you have to learn to adjust. He's learning to adjust.. his term isn't over yet..
And when things changed for Bush....were you or the left leaning crowd this forgiving??? I'll answer that for you....No you were not...
Yeah, I'm left leaning yet I voted for Bush twice.. voted for his father also.. and Reagan... yup, I'm left leaning.. you don't know me Pete...
9 out of 10 times, I'll give a person a chance to figure things out., the more difficult or complex the problem, the more time I'm likely to give them to work through it... I did that with Bush.. I thought, 9 months on the job,, 9/11 hits him smack in the face.,. to tell you the truth, I felt horrible for him. that's a helluva spot to be put into.. I thought initially, he handled it about as well as anyone could.. tough job... And while I wasn't overly enthused about some of his other actions, I felt he deserved another 4 years to hopefully bring this war to a close. I thought he earned that shot..
I voted for him again largely because of that to be honest.
So don't sit ther and tell me that I wouldn't afford Bush the same courtesy and patience.. when I clearly already did do just that..
Towards the end of his presidency however, I lost all patience with the man. he went off on a "crazy time' and frankly, if felt as if he let me down.. But the point is, when things weren't good, I stood by him and I kept the faith.
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Careful, the majority of us want health care reform
Ummmm NO...the majority did NOT want this reform...the MINORITY of US citizens wanted it. The Democrats had a super majority in congress and they still had a very difficult time trying to pass it and were only able to do so by bribing their own members....
Bull, he outlined what he wanted Healthcare reform to look like during his campaign.. people voted for him and that's one of the reasons.. But more to the point, I think people voted not so much FOR Obama, but Against the status quo.. So time will tell how that plays out.
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give it time,, let it play out..
Is that what you do when you are sitting in a bus and the driver is pointed towards a cliff and then hits the gas???
DUMB comparison.,., it doens't equate.
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Tell me again what's wrong with following the advice of those in the know?
What was wrong was NOT following the advice of those on the ground...it was dismissing that advice earlier in his campaign and promissing (and possibly deceiving) the American people by saying he was going to pull the troops out in order to get elected. If you cannot see that point of view (agree with it or not) then God Help You.. Because if you honestly believe that he was given some all new information once elected that changed his mind....Well I have a bridge in New York to sell you. You can make some good money off of the tolls...  
same as Willie,,, you want to knock the man for changing his mind.. for getting more info and for adapting.. had he not adapted you'd nail him for that also..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
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And when things changed for Bush....were you or the left leaning crowd this forgiving??? I'll answer that for you....No you were not...
Yeah, I'm left leaning yet I voted for Bush twice.. voted for his father also.. and Reagan... yup, I'm left leaning.. you don't know me Pete...
I know you quite well....that is why I placed a little word in that sentance...."or"......as in separating you from the left leaning crowd.
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Bull, he outlined what he wanted Healthcare reform to look like during his campaign.. people voted for him and that's one of the reasons.. But more to the point, I think people voted not so much FOR Obama, but Against the status quo.. So time will tell how that plays out.
I'll take your Bull and raise you a Bull Pucky....he ran on a campaign of "hope and change" a change in how politics is supposed to be run. He did NOT spell out his healthcare reform...(He was always vague in his campaign as are all candidates)as it is STILL NOT spelled out. People are still deciphering it...and the more the decipher...the more they dislike it. Why is it that a majority of Americans are calling for Congress to repeal this bill as the # priority this fall????
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DUMB comparison.,., it doens't equate.
Yes it does. You don't have to be a psychic to see in to the future to know that what he has been doing is not going to have a positive outcome. You cannot spend like he has been spending and expect a good result. you cannot tax people like he is going to do and expect growth. You cannot expect a dwindling tax base to support over half of the country Our national debt is going to equal or surpass our GDP...that last time that happened was right before WWII......So do you stand up and try to say something to the driver, grab the wheel, jump off the bus....or do you "let it play out"???
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
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you want to knock the man for changing his mind.. for getting more info and for adapting..
So....that bridge.....I can let you have it real cheap. I really hate to let it go...but....your a nice guy...I can see that....and well I think I can give you a break on it...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,962
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,962 |
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He's got a point daman - the majority of citizens did NOT want this health care reform.
Health care reform? Yes - but not this bloated mess that even today the people that voted on it can't tell you what it does or doesn't do.
Hell arch, I'm not even sure I want what's out there that's called healthcare reform.. I'm not convinced it's the right path either..
But that's not how he said it so I responded to what he said..
Yeah,, I'd say that at this point, the majority of folks don't want this healthcare reform in it's present form.. I'd agree with that,, but to say that the majority don't want healthcare reform,, I'm afraid that's not correct.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,962
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,962 |
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I'm not defending the man..,
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You win!!!! First place for "most inaccurate post of the week".
Wow,, you don't get it do you. I'm not defending Obama... He's done nothing that I can readily defend.. but I'm also not going to lay him to waste for things that haven't had time to play out.
I gave Bush that courtesy, I'll give it to Obama, and whoever is the next president whether I voted for them or not.
I try my level best to be reasonable.. I'm not always successful at it, but I try.
I try my best not to condemm any idea that isn't mine, or doesn't come from a source that I find doesn't fit my thinking generally. I don't always succeed at that either..
I recognized long ago that good ideas can come from anywhere.. I like to listen to them and once one is chosen (by me or others) I like to let them play out..
Let me give you an example.. this isn't political, doesn't have world economic implications.
I am a member of a car club.. we hosted a car show last weekend up here in NE Ohio.
I was put in charge of the hotel arrangements as well as banguet arrangments and food choices..
Got a good deal on food.. BBQ Chicken, hamburgers, hotdogs, potato salad, fresh fruit, a fabulous desert, salad and a few other side dishes and on a buffett so it's all you can eat. The cost..., $25.75 per person.. kids free. (keep in mind, this is a 4 star resturant so the food is amazing) Burgers are 10 oz Angus beef by the way.
My team overruled me, they wanted a sit down, plated dinner of Chicken Marsala.. Grilled Veggies and roasted potato and a salad. Cost,, 21.95 per person..what's on your plate is what you get. and we still had to go out and get a dessert.. 65 bucks for a sheet cake, a buck a person for the hotel to cut and plate the cake. total cost of the entire meal was now 24.52 per person.
1.23 difference... not a big deal as it turns out..
So, I took thier choice. I was against it, I was vocal about it. and I let them know that I thought it was a mistake.. that for a buck more, we could almost double the amount of food the people had to eat.
Didn't matter, that's the choice I was asked to make, so I made it..
Saturday evening,, the meal was served, it was amazing.. Tasted great... wonderful.. I could have used another piece of chicken as they weren't very large.. But the point is, the guests walked away happy and frankly, I learned a valuable lesson,,, I'm not always right.. even when my intentions were absoluty solid...
The bottom line, things don't always work out like you think they will... I had good reason to believe that meal wasn't going to satisfy everyone.. I was incorrect... they loved it.
Good ideas don't always come with guarantees..
WIll all of Obamas plans work out best for America? Has all of any presidents plans ever worked out for all americans? The answer has to be no.. to both.
Yeah, I'll give him more time.. that's one helluva tough job he has.. I don't envy him or anyone that sits in that seat..,
No matter what, his office deserves our respect...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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