DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs Offseason (cont'd)

I was on the Brian Shaw side of the debate but watching Byron Scott's press conference made me feel a whole lot better about him. Whether he succeeds or not is yet to be seen, but I can sure see why they hired him.

Not sure if it is posted but the Knicks presentation to LeBron seems to have leaked already.


http://blacksportsonline.com/home/index....n-james-leaked/


was sent to me in an email from a friend. so take it for what it's worth lol.

The interesting thing is that the presentation shows the Lebron will make the "2nd most" money staying in Cleveland.

However, I agree with the line below about paying a firm enough and it will find a way to justify the numbers.

If it's all about money ..... well, James has done pretty damn well during his time in Cleveland. That's a proven number. Everyone else is just supposition and conjecture.

Of course, if it's all just about money, I don't want him here.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...laying-here.php

Knicks pitch to LeBron: You could make $1 billion playing here

For months, marketing experts have been saying, "It doesn't matter where LeBron James plays, he makes the same money anywhere, he is a brand unto himself."

The focus of the New York Knicks' pitch to LeBron yesterday (and a specially prepared report for the meeting): Hell yes it matters. Forbes got a hold of the PowerPoint that says, basically, you can only make $1 billion in New York. And you want to make $1 billion, don't you? You are not going to make that in Miami and Cleveland, and probably not in Chicago. Why? Because we're New York.


To come up with the numbers for the Knicks, Interbrand says it ran through 50,000 computer models of a potential LeBron career, using more than 200 variables like individual performance, fan demographics and championships. The report is light on the details of its methodology, but comes to this conclusion: LeBron has a 50% chance of earning at least $1 billion in New York. In Cleveland and Chicago the odds fall to 1%. The study put a 0% chance of LeBron making $1 billion playing for Miami.


Sound fishy to you? It does to CNBC's sports business reporter Darren Rovell as well, as he tweeted:


Knicks tell LeBron he can earn $1B+ by going to NY. What it proves? Pay a firm (InterBrand) enough $, they'll justify a #.

Key to the bogus InterBrand LeBron study? They ASSUME he'll play for the Knicks for the next 13 years.


It may have sounded fishy to LeBron as well. The most connected reporter in Cleveland, Brian Windhorst of the Plain Dealer, tweeted this:


Here's what I hear from yesterday: LeBron interested in Nets pitch but not so much NY. NY trying at moment to secure Amare' to help cause


Here's the thing -- where LeBron can make the most money is shoe deals, particularly his international Nike deal in places like China. He gets a piece of the pie, but that only matters if you sell a lot of shoes. In China and Chinese culture, titles matter. That is why Kobe is crushing him in sales oversees (plus Kobe's whole marketing plan in China, which includes his own China foundation that does charitable work in the country, spreading good will).

James becomes more marketable, sells more gear, makes more money when he wins it all. And where can he best do that... Don't think the PowerPoint covers that.

Looked over the presentation and wasn't impressed. I have made better PP slides for school, let alone what ever the Knicks paid for those. Typical NY arrogance though, we're NY, we're the best. Esp since for the last few years, WINNING is what LBJ has said that is most important to him, I saw nothing in that presentation about basketball and how theyre going to build a good team. My guess, theres more presentation that wasn't leaked.

Here's what was in that mysterious box chicago sent to LeBron:

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_n...mMYQZDDeaNCoa5i

Cavs presentation was interesting:

http://tinyurl.com/397plgr

Some of that stuff was tear jerker. You know it's also going to be hard for him to leave the guys on the team who are like brothers to him. I mean guys like Big Z and Andy were with him from the beginning.

LBJ is the greatest athlete/personality of our time. The modern-day Michael Jordan. - Likeable, classy, and a great sportsman.
Unlike Kobe Bryant, Alex Rodriguez, Tiger Woods, Pete Rose, Jose Canseco, Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire and so many others, Lebron has never brought shame to his family, his sport, or his city. We, as Clevelanders, are so fortunate to have had him develop here. And man, I hope he stays......

I really hope we can pull something off for Mike Miller, I would love to have that guy play for us.

@PDcavsinsider: say LeBron plans to wait until after 3-day Nike camp in Akron is over to announce decision. Ends Wed. nite

@PDcavsinsider: Thurs. ironically is first day free agents can sign, cap numbers become official.

That doesn't sound particularly good.....

I wouldn't worry about it to much. He probabally doesn't want the media swarming the kids at his camp.

Who would have thought 4 days into FA and still lacking any FA clarity.

I wouldn't be too concerned about it. I would be more concerned if he didn't think it through.


Just a note, JJ took the deal from ATL link

I'm gonna go with, he doesn't want to see hundreds of crying kids.

Exactly. He's leaving. Announcing it before his camp just puts a cloud over it. At this point he stays or goes I don't care. I'm sick of him holding the team hostage. Get it over with so everyone can just move on. At the beginning I was sure he was staying. Now it is apparent he isn't. If he was staying It serves no purpose waiting this long to make an announcemen

There is nothing apparent (meaning obvious) about NBA Free Agency to this point yet.

He can't sign anything until the 8th anyway and Dwayne Wade/Chris Bosh most likely won't do anything until then either.

Him not saying anything until then really isn't a sign of staying or going in my eyes. If he makes his choice now teams can still bother the crap out of him during his camp to try and sway him to them. By not saying anything, he kinda gets left alone.

That's how I see it anyway.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lebronfreeagency070410

Cleveland ties could still bind LeBron
Adrian Wojnarowski

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports 26 minutes ago

They turned that downtown office building into a public parade of billionaires and builders of dynasties, entertainment icons and what-are-they-doing-here Clippers. The big, wide world took turns marching into the heart of Cleveland to make dramatic presentations to a hometown hero in a T-shirt, shorts and sneakers.

Here was Team LeBron making the headquarters of James’ fledgling marketing company LRMR into the Grand Central Station of a city’s hope and heartbreak. And perhaps the Cavaliers showed why they best know the biggest free agent in sports history when they delivered a presentation designed as much to steal a 14-year-old away from a traveling baseball team than woo a self-proclaimed disciple of Warren Buffett.

Through it all, James’ old team probably played it perfectly. The Cavs understood their audience the best: LeBron James(notes) and his high school buddies, 25-year-olds trying to play the part of a global corporation but ultimately still reached at a meaningful level with cartoons and locker-room humor.

A week ago, most teams believed they were chasing the Chicago Bulls for James, but that’s flipped in the past days and hours. “My gut tells me Cleveland,” an executive in the James chase told Yahoo! Sports on Sunday. “From what I hear now, it his decision alone. No outside influences.”

Officials from teams who made these presentations went along with the charade, but some questioned the legitimacy of the process based on the kinds of questions that were thrown back to them. “It didn’t take long to realize you’re dealing with 25-year-old kids,” one source said.

Cleveland executives are still on edge, but privately feeling far more confident now than they did weeks ago. As much as anything, William Wesley has been muscled out of the process in the past week or so, with teams insisting that communication to James goes directly through his business manager Maverick Carter. So unnerved over World Wide Wes’ ubiquitous presence in the process, Carter had to go public to undermine Wesley’s credibility and proclaim his own power.

The wresting back of power into James’ Akron-based camp goes a long way to securing the Cavs’ chances for re-signing James. This could preserve James’ future with the Cavaliers, because those surrounding him will eagerly validate his decision to take more money, stay home and keep them all relevant in his career and life.

Team LeBron turned this courtship of presentations into a marketing tool for the breadth of his brand, into a visual of the heavy-hitter suitors ultimately being rebuffed out of James’ loyalty and love for Cleveland. This entire episode made for around-the-clock news and Twitter frenzy. From the offices of LRMR, James has delivered a relentless reminder that’s he’s the world’s most wanted man in high tops. He needed the threat of leaving, even if there was never truly the intent.

What’s more, James and his guys have ramped up the launch of a new personal website and foreshadowed it as the place to find out first the big news on his free-agent choice – one that possibly won’t be made until he’s done marketing the LeBron James Skills Camp in Akron through Wednesday.

In the end, the Cavs can still offer James the most money, and no city will celebrate his arrival more than Cleveland will rejoice his refusing to leave. Cleveland fans felt like they had lost him, like he was going to get swept away into the world beyond Northeast Ohio. Something changed in the playoffs. Always, there was a sense that if he left there, the onus would be on the organization; that it didn’t do enough, that it didn’t surround him with the proper talent. Only this time, the Cavs did. James’ no-show performance in Game 5 of the Eastern Conference semifinals against Boston scarred him everywhere. He hadn’t delivered on the burden of an MVP, and suddenly the narrative of the story had dramatically changed.

Coach Mike Brown was fired, general manager Danny Ferry was pushed out and an awkward pursuit of Tom Izzo ensued under owner Dan Gilbert’s watch. Everything about James’ future in Cleveland felt so flimsy. In the end, Gilbert did get right the hiring of Byron Scott as coach, a man with an ability to make people feel confident about situations, to feel confidence in his presence.

Despite sources saying Scott’s old New Jersey point guard Jason Kidd(notes) didn’t back down from past criticisms when called by Cleveland officials, the unwavering praise of Chris Paul(notes) went a long way with the Cavs. Scott is a smart coach for James, a balance of old-school sensibility with a willingness to give his superstars complete freedom to dictate terms on the floor.

For all the New Jersey Nets’ promises of world treasures, the flashing of Pat Riley’s rings, the young talent of the Bulls and the calling of Madison Square Garden, this process has made some suitors skeptical of James’ seriousness. Even so, all the teams have to tell their fans that they had a great shot and wowed him and his buddies in the presentations.

Armed with a commitment from Amar’e Stoudemire(notes), the Knicks sent two executives to Cleveland on Saturday to run some cap numbers past James’ agent Leon Rose. James’ people have privately described the Knicks as a long shot, but New York has wisely tried to stay aggressive selling itself. For now, the Knicks are the one team with an All-Star caliber forward on the way.

The Knicks are willing to pay Stoudemire $100 million, something no one else with cap space is willing to do. New Jersey would take Stoudemire if James also promises to sign, a source said, but won’t meet his demands for a maximum contract as a solitary commitment.

Still, mostly this may turn out to be an exercise in lavishing LeBron James with what he craves the most: a lustful longing for his greatness. Deep down, LeBron had to walk out of those offices with an understanding that no one can make him a billionaire and no one can promise a circumstance much better than what he’s had in Cleveland these past seven seasons. For him to leave, there would be so much pressure to deliver a championship upon arrival, to honor the biggest free-agency score in history. And it leaves to you wonder whether he truly wants any of that.

LeBron James has always sold his hopes of wanting to conquer the world, of turning into a historically transcendent athlete and icon. All that sounds wonderful, but here’s what everyone does know: He’s going to be a wildly successful basketball player, maybe a five- or six-time MVP and, barring misfortune, an NBA champion.

And maybe most of all now, you get the idea that James is an overgrown teenager getting a few laughs with his buddies, driving home to Akron from this cattle call in Cleveland to watch cartoons, play video games and kill some time until he gives the nod to post the big news that maybe the rest of us should’ve known all along: He’s home.




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best part about this read is hearing that world wide wes has been booted from the inner circle. that bodes well. wojnarowski wrote an article not too long ago about how william wesley was pushing lbj out of cleveland for his own agenda (see tom thibideau)

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best part about this read is hearing that world wide wes has been booted from the inner circle. that bodes well. wojnarowski wrote an article not too long ago about how william wesley was pushing lbj out of cleveland for his own agenda (see tom thibideau)

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I agree, that is great news.

I also like how the Cavs handled this with the laid back meeting. It says there's no pressure here, just do what you've been doing and have fun doing it. They've already shown him over the past 5 years they are committed to doing whatever it takes to win.

That article makes me feel a lot better about our chances ... but that could just mean we're the flavor of the day. Nobody can make up their mind about where he's going and the media just jumps on whatever the prevailing opinion of the day is. Going to be a nerve wracking week anyway.

i think hiring from within, with a guy like chris grant, shows how strong of an organization they are.

with everything going on, and the uncertainty, they go to a first time guy, who has been studying under danny ferry, whom i think we can all agree did about as well as you can given what he walked into, and constantly being brought with pressure that no other gm, maybe in sports, has ever had to deal with.

and don't forget byron scott. and i really think the 180 had a ton to do with lebron. maybe the whole thing had to do with him. maybe he buckled when he heard the cavs were on the verge of brian shaw and thought "wait, that's not my guy and why are they moving ahead with this??" and through mav or leon rose, the cavs go and hire byron scott?

who knows. all i know is i feel pretty confident he staying. as far as waiting until the camp is over, you can spin that both ways. you don't think all the kids would love a gigantic media circus?? they'd love the hell out of the spotlight.

Windy on KNR a minute ago...

Still thinks Bron stays here...Is considering Chicago...After his Nike camp expect the decision...

After the decision is when it really gets good...Bron stays and we start the S&T stuff...

i think lbj stays, i think wade eventually goes back to miami, i think boozer may end up in chicago, we know dirk and jj are back with their teams. amare seems to be headed to nyc

the only other big name that may change is chris bosh. and that is the wild card. who gets him?

and we hold an advantage, because we can pay him the full max via s&t whereas i don't think the bulls or knicks have anything they'd want back. windy has said several times, the cavs have a package that toronto would want, not to mention the ability by the cavs to take back one of the two contracts they'd rather not have. the only thing holding it up is bosh himself. if lbj signs i expect him to publiclyi push hard for cb4 to come aboard.

OK...Let's say it's down to Cleveland/Chicago...

Comparisons...

Owner...No doubt Gilbert with deep pockets...

GM...Gotta like the new dude...

HC...Exp...Championships...

If Chicago goes for Bosh it's costing Noah PLUS...Bosh gets more jack in Cleveland right???

Bron leaves and lays 30 MILLION on the table...Ain't gonna happen...

i don't see the draw with that roster outside of derek rose. and for as good as derek rose is, how good will he look standing on the perimeter while lbj is dribbling?

that team has zero shooters. they have no real low post presence. joakim noah is about as good as andy is (if andy were a starter and got starter minutes)

you have a first time coach who is a former defensive whiz.

their front office had a giant scuffle with the head coach last season. not to mention john paxson has botched about as many picks as his brother.

they have room for one max guy and almost another max guy.so if he comes there with bosh, who takes a second paycut?

you put it all together and i just don't see anything that good to make him leave.

I also think that Bron's waiting until after his Nike camp because this is all about these kids...

He knows what would happen if he says Chicago right now...And he knows the same thing happens if he says Cleveland right now...

SMART MOVE BRON...CLASS...

I don't hear too many people screaming "Class" with regardes to LeBron, unless they're saying he needs to show more of it.

If you think Lebron is so classless, give me a few examples.

He does a ton for the Cleveland/Akron area, and with all do respect, much of this FA circus is not due to Lebron's ego. Lebron has been relatively quiet. The circus comes from World Wide Wes and his cronies at ESPN (read, Jalen Rose), and the a lot of the rest of the national media.

* Not shaking hands after Orlando loss. Defend it anyway you want, but it's classless.

* Wearing Yankee hats to public events in Cleveland. If you don't think that was meant to fuel the "LeBron to New York" and gain publicity, you're in severe denial. He might have grown up a Yankee fan, but how hard is it to not wear it at a public event in Cleveland?

* Claiming he could "win a scoring title every year if he wanted to". So much for being humble.

* The complete lack of professionalism on the court. As much as I hate Joakim Noah, he was right to call out LeBron for dancing on the court.

And to make LeBron look even worse in that situation, he walks off the free throw line and over to the Bulls bench after shooting the first free throw. Wow.


Everyone outside of Cleveland thinks LeBron is a classless punk. I'll root for him as long as he's a Cav, because I'm a Cavs fan. But, I'm not a LeBron fan.

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Not shaking hands after Orlando loss. Defend it anyway you want, but it's classless.

* Wearing Yankee hats to public events in Cleveland. If you don't think that was meant to fuel the "LeBron to New York" and gain publicity, you're in severe denial. He might have grown up a Yankee fan, but how hard is it to not wear it at a public event in Cleveland?

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To me, these are small mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes; it's how you handle them. After the Orlando thing, notice that he did shake hands with the Celts this year.

And if he's a Yankees fan since he was little, it is his right to wear that cap. Just like it is my right to wear Browns gear to Pittsburgh, or Steelers fans to wears gear to Browns stadium. When it becomes classless is if he was taunting fans around him verbally or physically.

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Claiming he could "win a scoring title every year if he wanted to". So much for being humble.

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JMO, but I think this quote was used it showing that the "scoring is all that matters mindset" is detrimental to a good team. So, he was really professing team matters over individual achievement. Not really a bad trait. And his actions on the court back this up; he is an excellent teammate.

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The complete lack of professionalism on the court. As much as I hate Joakim Noah, he was right to call out LeBron for dancing on the court.

And to make LeBron look even worse in that situation, he walks off the free throw line and over to the Bulls bench after shooting the first free throw. Wow.

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I'll give you the dancing thing. That was pretty lame. But I don't have a problem with him saying something the Bulls bench. Noah is well known to be constantly running his mouth. Especially for a guy that averages 14 and 10 and can't shoot outside of 5 feet. He plays hard, but he doesn't have the ammo to back up what comes out of his mouth.

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Everyone outside of Cleveland thinks LeBron is a classless punk. I'll root for him as long as he's a Cav, because I'm a Cavs fan. But, I'm not a LeBron fan.

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I would be careful speaking for the rest of the country. And even if everyone thinks this, my bottom line is that he does tons of good for his communities, is a good teammate, and seems to be good to his family/friends. IMO, his actions far, far outweigh a few mistakes in etiquette he has made.

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Everyone outside of Cleveland thinks LeBron is a classless punk.

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Where have you seen that? I haven't lived in Cleveland at all, in fact I've only visited Cleveland once since LeBron has been a Cav, and I've never heard that from anyone.

The only person that I've ever seen that had a problem was that Orlando reporter. But then again, having lived in Orlando for several years while LeBron was a Cav, I know that reporter well. He has always been one to stir up controversy no matter what he is writing about. Word is that he is not well liked by Magic fans for his crazy stories.

You also can't forget about Houston. They have the pieces Toronto likes to do a sign n trade. I don't think any of these guys play with each other. They're not giving up that type of coin, especially with a new cba coming up, and max contracts shrinking in the future.

Wow Top if you really think LeBron is classless then you must think most super stars are the devil.

lebron has done some things that i didn't like, but i never would say he's a classless punk.

the handshake thing i didn't agree with even though as a fan i thought it was awesome because he was truly as pissed off as we cavs fans were, but i also play hockey 3 or 4 times a week and always shake hands after every single game (not just playoffs) and know what sportsmanship is and what it means, and that part of me thought it wasn't cool. glad he manned up and shook the celtics hands this time around.

the dancing thing? he wasn't dancing on the court, he was on the bench behind the baseline hamming it up. i would suggest to joakim noah, don't get down by 25 so you actually have to play against lbj instead of danny green and jawad williams. same thing i say about nfl td celebrations, i don't necassarily agree with them, but i think if you want it to stop then play some defense.

i find it funny nobody called out the celtics for doing the same thing during their 2008 run.

lebron is not a classless punk, but he's done some things i think he'd like to take back.

leave the "classless punk" tag for guys like michael vick, brett meyers, and the cincinnati bengals

If LeBron was dancing on the sidelines when it happened, why was he on the free throw line when Joakim Noah was running his mouth?

LeBron was on the court, and got a bucket and a foul, and started dancing.