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Legend
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Legend
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Just chiming in,....this is what struck me -- Quote:
because some educators are concerned that it would be hard to find teachers willing to recite it
And that, is a true statement.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Good. There are better things than a nation-state to which you can pledge your allegiance. Why not have students pledge themselves to the pursuit of knowledge, to the solidarity of humankind, to wisdom and reason, to ethical conduct? When will this "America!" fetish die?
When enough people assume that the constitution and our freedom is no longer worth defending to the death.....and the ideals put forth by our founding fathers are outdated and meaningless.
I don't think that the Pledge had anything to do with "The Constitution" or "The Founding Fathers."
I think it was actually first published in a "Children's Magazine." Which is why I noted earlier that its creation seemed gimmicky.
He was responding to the specific question, "When with this 'America' fetish die?
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
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I agree, Andra. I taught. Voluntary is crucial; not sure of the venue. When I wasa younger, gradeschool, if anybody started the pledge or national anthem, ANYWHERE, you were expected to join in and WANTED to do so. I am troubled by teachers who won't herein mentioned. I am pleased so many signed zee paper. I guesas doing this or not carries as much weight as politicos who wear flag lapel pins and then screw over Americans. It is oK to be proud; dress the part; say your stuff when and wher you wish. Seems like some rights suffer to promote others. This kid had a right to free speech. On the off chance a number of things, all postulated only, he gets squashed. That sucketh. I live this way: Sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission. Sorry to see this unfortunate situation, but it is an annual event.   
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Legend
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OP
Legend
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Again.. I have no idea what you just said  And I read RPG board where people speak like Ogres and Trolls to mimic their online character
Last edited by FloridaFan; 07/02/10 08:30 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Quote:
Good. There are better things than a nation-state to which you can pledge your allegiance. Why not have students pledge themselves to the pursuit of knowledge, to the solidarity of humankind, to wisdom and reason, to ethical conduct? When will this "America!" fetish die?
When enough people assume that the constitution and our freedom is no longer worth defending to the death.....and the ideals put forth by our founding fathers are outdated and meaningless.
And you connect all of that to the pledge of allegiance? You need to develop your powers of discriminatory judgment. I don't want to negate the Constitution or the philosophies of those who wrote it. What I do want is an end to the uncritical approach to that document and those philosophies that have petrified their meaning according to the narrowest of ideologies, a state of affairs that can only be perpetuated through mindless repitition of a contrived and arbitrary creed by children who have no idea what they are saying and don't care anyway.
Last edited by Mantis; 07/02/10 05:34 PM.
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Legend
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Would you be opposed to the singing of the national anthem at the beginning of each school day?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Would you be opposed to the singing of the national anthem at the beginning of each school day?
I'm not Mantis, and I don't want to speak for him ...
... but personally I'm opposed to any sort of recitation. To me it reeks of propaganda. And not only that ... but to do so is to dull the meaning.
I don't start the day by pledging allegiance to my loved ones ... but that doesn't mean that I don't.
JMHO.
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Legend
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Legend
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I bet more kids can sing their school song than recite the pledge these days.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Yes, I would be opposed to that as well for the same reasons as previously stated.
And another problem I have with the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem is the level of ambiguity in the structure of their content that makes it possible to transpose them into multiplicitous contexts that may or may not be morally good. You can fill in the blank here because I don't want to get side-tracked on what contexts are and are not appropriate for these symbols (e.g. the legitimation of - wars, religious sects, fringe/antisocial groups).
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Legend
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The problem I have with you is the following sentence.. Quote:
And another problem I have with the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem is the level of ambiguity in the structure of their content that makes it possible to transpose them into multiplicitous contexts that may or may not be morally good.
Really? Do you have trouble relating to others? BTW, what is the definition of the word multiplicitous ? I know I am not very bright so I look up all big words. This word did not show up in the Webster's online dictionary.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Really? Do you have trouble relating to others? BTW, what is the definition of the word multiplicitous ? I know I am not very bright so I look up all big words. This word did not show up in the Webster's online dictionary.
Do I have trouble relating to others? Sometimes. Do you have trouble relating to others? I would guess that, sometimes, you probably do as well.
I'm not sure if you have a problem with what I say or how I say it. Either way, why would you consider these to be problematical?
'Multiplicitous' is the adjective form of 'multiplicity' which, in its most generic form, denotes variety in quality or quantity. (Although, I probably should not have used it in this sense because it has a deeper meaning in a philosophical context.) But, nevertheless, what I meant by it was 'variety'.
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Legend
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Nice answer. i was being a smart ass and you didn't take the bait. You write like a doctorate student so I actually had to read your posts twice to make sure I understood them.
I did actually know what you meant by using the word multiplicitous. The thing is it came up as a misspelled by the spell check that Firefox uses. I double checked it with Websters and it didn't show up there either.
I do not have trouble relating to others. Others just find me pompous and obnoxious. One of my friends on here actually took a shot at me for being "Holier then Thou"
As for the reason for my response...basically your opinion rubbed me the wrong way. Actually I think the way you wrote it was worse then your opinion.
My response really wasn't proper but most probably expect nothing more from me.
#gmstrong
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You might be surprised to read this, but I actually think there is a problem with the way I write (and talk, since they are almost the same). I'm not being intentionally pretentious - it's just my natural voice. Sometimes it is a problem because the message gets lost in the "jargon", as it were. But it's hard to write with a voice other than your own. Quote:
I did actually know what you meant by using the word multiplicitous. The thing is it came up as a misspelled by the spell check that Firefox uses. I double checked it with Websters and it didn't show up there either.
Whenever I spellcheck a document in Microsoft Word, I am usually adding more words to the dictionary than I am changing them. Dictionaries are a great resource, but they are usually too narrow and always behind real-time vocabulary.
Quote:
I do not have trouble relating to others. Others just find me pompous and obnoxious.
I think that is probably my reputation on this board as well. It's not intentional, just as I am sure it is not intentional for you either. But I think it is true that I am much nicer in person.
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Hall of Famer
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I have seen that ( Red's Pledge ) several times ; and it always brings tears to my eye's !
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Mass. Town Won't Let Students
Recite Pledge of Allegiance
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