A mosque is about to be erected on the hallowed acreage of lower Manhattan's Ground Zero. Where we Americans weep, they rejoice and intend to erect a shrine to the 9/11 terrorists they hail as martyrs. This offense cannot stand. http://www.youtube.com/v/mjGJPPRD3u0
Protest sign at 9/11 mosque public hearing Hundreds of opponents turned out for a public hearing on the mosque in New York on Tuesday
Two US TV networks have refused to air a controversial advert condemning plans to build a mosque near the site of the 9/11 terror attacks in New York.
The advert is funded by the National Republican Trust, a conservative group not affiliated to the Republican Party.
Entitled "Kill the Ground Zero Mosque", the video calls the proposed mosque a "monstrosity" that will invite further attacks on the US.
The advertisement has received over 100,000 page views on YouTube.
Neither CBS nor NBC, two of the major US television networks, will screen the advert. It is unclear what other networks will decide to do.
In emails obtained by the news website Politico, NBC Universal advertising standards manager Jennifer Riley wrote that because it did not make a distinction between terror groups and the religious organisation behind the mosque, "the ad is not acceptable under our guidelines for broadcast".
The advert uses dramatic images of the World Trade Center attacks and images of rejoicing Islamic militants set to a soundtrack of Muslim prayer.
A narrator announces: "On 11 September, they declared war against us. And to celebrate that murder of 3,000 Americans, they want to build a monstrous 13-storey mosque at Ground Zero. This ground is sacred. Where we weep, they rejoice. That mosque is a monument to their victory and an invitation for more."
The National Republican Trust is a conservative political action committee (PAC), an organisation formed to promote its members' views on selected issues. Tough opposition
The mosque also faces stiff resistance from some sectors of the Manhattan community.
Some opponents are attempting to have the proposed mosque site declared a city landmark, a designation which would prevent it being developed.
Republican Congressman Peter King and the Republican candidate for governor of New York, Rick Lazio, have called for an investigation into the funding for the mosque.
Mayor Michael Bloomberg, an independent, dismissed these calls as "un-American".
All I will say is this:
if this is true..all I can do is shake my head.....wow.....just wow....something is really wrong with this picture....has it really come to this?
that place is sacred ground...those that died there should be honored......a memorial should be built for them.. not this....
For clarification, what are you shaking your head at? the fact that somebody wants to build a mosque at ground zero or that some people are adamently opposed to it?
Quote: If it was a Christian church, I wouldn't care that it was happening.
Which I feel points to the stupidity and xenophobia of the anger surrounding this.
Look, I think all religions are stupid, Islam especially. But Islam didn't fly planes into buildings. Just like guns don't kill people, people kill people -- a bunch of confused idiots were duped into serving as pawns, and religion was used as the bait.
But, yeah, let's just forget freedom of religion because we don't want the bad Muslims near our sacred site.
Personally, I think it's a stupid, attention seeking move to put it there ... but I think the folks up in arms are just as stupid.
Maybe we should keep Catholic churches away from schools ... don't want to bring up the bad vibes from the countless molestation acts.
I see no reason why a house of worship should be barred from the area of the 9-11 attacks.
If it is some hateful version of a Mosque, then yes ... ban it ...... but there are some pretty hateful versions of churches today as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: But, yeah, let's just forget freedom of religion because we don't want the bad Muslims near our sacred site.
Nobody is telling them they can't be Muslims or practice Islam.. so put the irrational constitutional argument away.
This is more of a zoning issue.. just like nobody wants a prison built in their area so they protest, nobody wants a landfill built in their area so they protest, evidently these people don't want the mosque built in their area because of the symbolism so they protest...
Sorry Phil, symbolism is important.. Do you think we would let the Japanese build a consolate at the gates of Pearl Harbor? Think they would let the arians build an office building outside the gates of Auschwitz? Dan Gilbert couldn't get the LeBron posters down fast enough.. why? Because symbolism is important.
Quote: that place is sacred ground...those that died there should be honored......a memorial should be built for them..
How about the folks (particularly Americans) who died there who happen to be Muslim? Should we honor them as well, or should we remember them differently because they were followers of Islam?
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
NEW YORK — Workers at the World Trade Center site are excavating a 32-foot-long ship hull that apparently was used in the 18th century as part of the fill that extended lower Manhattan into the Hudson River.
It's hoped the artifact can be retrieved by the end of the day on Thursday, said archaeologist Molly McDonald. A boat specialist was going to the site to take a look at it.
McDonald said she wanted to at least salvage some timbers; it was unclear if any large portions could be lifted intact.
"We're mostly clearing it by hand because it's kind of fragile," she said, but construction equipment could be used later in the process.
McDonald and archaeologist A. Michael Pappalardo were at the site of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks when the discovery was made Tuesday morning.
"We noticed curved timbers that a back hoe brought up," McDonald said Wednesday. "We quickly found the rib of a vessel and continued to clear it away and expose the hull over the last two days."
The two archeologists work for AKRF, a firm hired to document artifacts discovered at the site. They called the find significant but said more study was needed to determine the age of the ship.
"We're going to send timber samples to a laboratory to do dendrochronology that will help us to get a sense of when the boat was constructed," said McDonald. Dendrochronology is the science that uses tree rings to determine dates and chronological order.
A 100-pound anchor was found a few yards from the ship hull on Wednesday, but they're not sure if it belongs to the ship. It's 3 to 4 feet across, McDonald said.
The archaeologists are racing to record and analyze the vessel before the delicate wood, now exposed to air, begins to deteriorate.
"I kept thinking of how closely it came to being destroyed," Pappalardo said. LINK
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
I completely agree. It is about symbolism; I have no problem if people want to practice Islam, Christianity, Voodoo, or are Atheists. Putting a mosque on this location is just plain wrong.
Cmon Phil, seriously? I understand that political correctness and all that jazz is the "IN" thing, but lets get real. Do you really feel that it's not a back hand that they want to put a Mosque there? There are several other places to put one, so why there? Yeah you can try to compare the reaction of people if they tried to put a Catholic church there, but the fact is they didn't. Also tell me this, do you feel morally elite because you try to show how understanding and protective you are of muslims practicing religion? I only ask because you seem A Okay with taking cracks at the Catholic religion, which alot of Americans are, including me. I bet you wouldn't dare take a open shot at muslims and stereo type them because they are a minority and you are worried you might look bad, yet you so easily stereo type the Catholic church because it's cool to bag on your own kind (as in alot of Americans are Catholic) right?
For the record.. No way to the Mosque, they can go back to their home land and build it if they want it that bad. This is America and we wont forget or promote what happened on 9/11.
Quote: that place is sacred ground...those that died there should be honored......a memorial should be built for them..
How about the folks (particularly Americans) who died there who happen to be Muslim? Should we honor them as well, or should we remember them differently because they were followers of Islam?
That doesn't mean it would be okay to build a mosque on site. It also doesn't mean, IMO, that it's okay to build a Christian church on site. Have a memorial for everyone that died and leave it at that. This really isn't about religion, other than the bozos that blew the place up.
I'm with Phil here and I agree the social fear against Islam needs to end. I doubt many of them even even have a thought about a personal Jihad war against America.
I think building a mosque by the site of ground zero would be good for the American people as they could learn about religious tolerance and why the crazy loons who did they unfortunate acts are so much different than those who practice Islam. Americans are still very ignorant to other religions and cultures and I believe this would be a huge stepping stone to eliminate the many prejudices and fears that the American public has against Islam.
i'm confused. how does someone have the right to put up a mosque, or anythign else there. isn't that land owned by the city or whomever owned that land before the buildings were destroyed?
just seems a little to easy that they are just gonna walk in there and build a mosque.
Although I totally agree that in no way they should put a mosque there (cuz really, it would not send the right message and would remind people of radical islam rather than peaceable islam), this kinda comment is just brutal...
Quote: No way to the Mosque, they can go back to their home land and build it if they want it that bad.
There could be no greater message that one that says that we can live in peace with one another, and respect each others views and religions, even following one of the most evil acts ever committed in the name of religion.
I think that there should be churches if they desire to locate there. Mosques as well. Synagogues as well. If the Buddhists want a temple or 2, let them have them as well.
Religious establishments of all faiths being good neighbors to one another would be the truest victory over the bastardized version of Islam that allowed such evil to be done ..... and would be the biggest step towards victory over that extremism.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Yes it does sound like bigotry and proves my point. Nobody said a dang thing to Phil about the remark about not placing a catholic church by a school, now did they? It took 3 posts to point out the outlandish comment I made. Kind of see where this is going? I just think the rubber gloves people have to put on for every other nationality, race, culture, you name it is a bit ridiculous when you consider the fact that Americans don't seem all that concerned about protecting their own values. Now I know it's not all Americans but it's the majority in my opinion.
Yes saying they should go back to their own land was a bit harsh, but lets not over look that whatever group even suggested their mosque is at least as much ignorant as my statement was.
Could you imagine bin Laden's face .... if, on the scene of his biggest "victory", the media could show a Mosque, a Church, and a Synagogue, all opened side by side by side ..... with the leaders of each shaking hands and promising good fellowship with one another.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Could you imagine bin Laden's face .... if, on the scene of his biggest "victory", the media could show a Mosque, a Church, and a Synagogue, all opened side by side by side ..... with the leaders of each shaking hands and promising good fellowship with one another.
Nope, I hear what you're saying centerfield. And you're right.... alot of people are scared to rip on Muslims because they don't want to look intolerant. I think Phil was basically saying that he doesn't think that what religion it is should play a factor.
I initially agreed with your point that it wouldn't be appropriate, but YTown's idea would be an incredible. Rebuild that centre with all major religions represented and make it a spot that embodies tolerance.... now THAT would be a worthy memorial.
I do not think there should be any sort of religious buildings at all on the site, especially a mosque. The examples DC gave are great ones as to why a mosque should not be built there. I have no problem with Islam as a religion as I know most are not the radicals that attacked us on 9/11. I still see it as a slap in the face and will be viewed and twisted into a victory by the Bil Laden contingent.
It's not a bad idea but me personally am all for a memorial to remember the Americans that died. Ytowns idea is great for fairy tales but not anything we will ever see. There will always be too many extremists just like there will always be racism. Not trying to be Donnie Downer here, just being real.
The entire twin towers site was what ... 16 square city blocks or so? How much of that area is "off-limits" to religious organizations?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: It's not a bad idea but me personally am all for a memorial to remember the Americans that died. Ytowns idea is great for fairy tales but not anything we will ever see. There will always be too many extremists just like there will always be racism. Not trying to be Donnie Downer here, just being real.
you could have both, you could put a very nice memorial to those that died that day, as well as put up various religious buildings.
i believe it would be in great taste. and i think it would send the strongest message from us as a country.
The whole key to victory in damn near anything is to stand up just one time more than the opponent can knock you down.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I would say it's all off limits just to make sure not certain religions try to erect a building to prove their point. The more I think about it I think even attempting to put a Mosque in that area was a totally ignorant idea. Why would they want to put it there other than to prove some kind of point??
Way to go ytown.. make me think.. you know how I hate to do that... now I'm torn because I was stuck on the symbolism of a mosque as a sort of cornerstone of the ground zero area.. but your idea of neighboring religious facilities living together in the shadow of that tragedy is compelling symbolism too.. I will have to think some more. I hate you.
Once in a while I like to step out from my "hateful and evil RW'er" footprint and make people think.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I'm with Phil here and I agree the social fear against Islam needs to end.
I have a question.
Lets say you just boarded a flight to the west coast to visit family as I did just this past Tuesday and while you were buckling in your seat 5 muslim men in their 20's boarded the plane and all sat in various locations thoughout the plane.
Well it's fine that you brought it up and it's fine that I'm thinking about it but you do realize that neither of us will be able to promote until Fox News tells us to.
Your multiple religious buildings is a noble idea, but do you think it would/could happen? Would they really believe in what they were doing when shaking hands or would it just be a nice PC photo-op?
Co-existing amongst religions would be a great step in peace, but I still have a problem with a mosque there simply due to the symbolism and that it would be viewed, in my opinion, no matter what as a victory by Bin Laden even if other places of worship are by it.
Now, I did have a friend who was Muslim and he married a Catholic girl; the Catholic priest even blessed the marriage after a full Muslim ceremony. The marriage didn't last, but two very different religions were able to, for at least one day, make some exceptions and be more tolerable towards one another
It has to start somewhere for there to truly be peace in the world.
Maybe it's the incurable optimist in me, but I say
Why not here? Why not now?
Or .... by the same token ..... If not here, then where? If not now ..... then when?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Lets say you just boarded a flight to the west coast to visit family as I did just this past Tuesday and while you were buckling in your seat 5 muslim men in their 20's boarded the plane and all sat in various locations thoughout the plane.
How comfortable would you be?
Now this should be interesting. Call me prejudice if you must but the honest answer is my booty hole would tighten up fast.
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