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it was called Cordoba House, and they change it in Mid-July.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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JC.
If it had been called the "51 Park Place Cultural Center" from the beginning, no one would have even batted an eye.
LOL yah right..they never called it a mosque themselves...the media did...it wouldn't have mattered what they called it...media would have done this regardless...it's a shame really.
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Legend
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Ahh, yeah... I forgot about that part.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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It is totally plain and clear that this is a religious persecution issue for you.
No it is not.... I don't think the Army should build a base 500 ft from Wounded Knee...I don't think the KKK should build a Meeting Hall 500 feet from the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing....I don't believe Manson or any murderer (or murderers fans as we all know there are fans of Manson, Bundy, etc....) should be allowed to be buried next their victims on near the sites of of the slayings simply because they want it. None of those is religously motivated. Yet all are within their Constitutional rights to do so....
The Army killed American Indians at Wounded Knee, not extremeist Army members who were dissassociated from the Army afterwards. The KKK committed the Baptist Church Bombing as part of their mission and the perpetrators were not KKK extremists that were dissassociated from the KKK afterwards for their warpred views. The murderers you speak of actually killed their victims themselves.
The Islamist religion did not kill anyone on Sept. 11. The "muslims" who did so have been dissassociated from the mainstream religion of Islam and were acting outside the practice. They were extremists who ignored the teachings of the Koran.
to compare your example, it would be like saying the Army = all Americans, the KKK = all white people, or Murderers = everyone with the same last name. 9/11 terrorists do not = all Muslims.
I was in New York when the towers went down. I watched it happen. I walked down there that night and bought pizza for cops and firefighters. I smelled the buring flesh from my apartment in the days after. This mosque or religious center or whatever they want to call it, does not offend me in the least. It has nothing to do with what happened that day.
Don't assist those terrorists by letting them hide behind their religion. They want to be martyrs for Islam, they want their actions to be viewed as Islam. They were not practicing Islam. They did not represent Islam. They were misguided extremists inspired by a pychopath. Don't do what they want - they want us to hate Islam and declare war against Islam. Don't let them off the hook for their individual decisions to murder people.
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Good post. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Dawg Talker
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Ahhh but here is the rub.... Mainstream Islam has NOT disassociated themselves with these extremests/radicals and has at times embraced them. When the day comes (and signs may point to it being sooner rather than later....) that Mainstream Islam does reject any and all actions by these groups and they are looked upon by the common muslim as we look upon the KKK....it may be more appropriate....But that day is not here yet. We have little upcroppings and statements here and there....but they are the minority not the majority.
Secondly, had this group tried to work in conjunction with and in deference to survivors, and families of the victims, with their support. From the start......This also might be a completely different story. But they haven't. It has been an "in your face" air of defiance type attitude of..."we have the right and there is nothing you can do to stop us" instead.
Some of you talked about feeding them and buying into the hate....what about you who are being played. They do this purposely to play the poor victims and publicize it to a greater audience and you eat it up and feed that notion. Who is playing who???
I am not projecting hate but rather politely asking that they use more decorum and respect by choosing a different location. Or at least they should show that they have a semblence of understanding that their actions have an effect upon the feelings of a great many people and they should try to ease those concerns from the beginning and without prompting.
So yes. I still say they do have the right...and I still say it is in bad taste...and I still have the right to say so and petition against it.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Quote:
Secondly, had this group tried to work in conjunction with and in deference to survivors, and families of the victims, with their support. From the start......This also might be a completely different story. But they haven't. It has been an "in your face" air of defiance type attitude of..."we have the right and there is nothing you can do to stop us" instead.
There are some that support it, just as there are some who oppose it.
August 25th, 2010
09:35 AM ET
Some family members of 9/11 victims to support mosque construction
Some family members of 9/11 victims will rally Wednesday in support of a controversial mosque and Islamic center that is scheduled to be built near New York City's ground zero.
Their group, called September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, will also be joined by at least 40 religious and civic organizations, and is expected to announce the creation of a coalition called New York Neighbors for American Values. The coalition's goals include support of "religious freedom and diversity" and the rejection of "crude stereotypes meant to frighten and divide us."
The rally is scheduled to be outside a municipal building in Manhattan.
LINK
SURVIVOR GROUP APPROVES
But the September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, founded by family of those killed in the 9/11 attacks, praised the commission for making its decision without caving in to politics and emotion.
"We strongly support the establishment of the Islamic Cultural Center as we believe that welcoming the center, which is intended to promote interfaith tolerance and respect, is consistent with the fundamental American values of freedom for all," the group said in a statement.
LINK
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Just clicking.
In the video clip 'Third Jihad', it says the Muslim faith is mandated to rise to the top above all other faiths and impose their Muslim Sharia Law on the world. Furthermore it is the responsibility of ALL Muslims to aide in this Jihad...
For those who do not wish to follow the radical ways, an obvious course of action would be to manipulate situations to the benefit of the faith non-violently... could this be what we are seeing here?
I mean anyone should be able to see that Americans as a whole would be at least somewhat miffed by the building of this mosque. And that this would strike up a bitter controversy between the Tea Party types and the politically correct tree hugger types.
Personally I don't make a distinction between "radical" Muslims and Muslims as a whole. Every religion has its nut-jobs. But after watching the beheading videos and listening to some of the cultural stories from the guys I know who served over there... I don't have much use for any of the Muslim beliefs. To me, proclaiming yourself a Muslim is the same as saying "Hey I'm an Idiot!”
As for the Mosque being built at ground zero, I don't like it. BUT who am I to say they have no right. So I'll be quite and let whatever happens happen... AND when some other nut-job blows that Mosque or its people to hell I'll make sure I take the same stance.
__________________________________________________________
My Personal POV:
If we could all forget our religions and treat each other as equals by simply respecting each other’s right to peacefully co-exist, it would be a better world.
If we could view ourselves as an intelligent species without the separating labels of race, religion and economic class; it would be a better world.
If we could work together as a whole species peacefully striving to improve our technologies, so that everyone’s needs are met, we are not destroying our environment and we understand the truth of who we are in the universal scope; it would be a better world.
But we seem incapable of making it past our primitive natures to allow such basic logic to play a role in our destiny. We would much rather succumb to our fears, superstitions and greed; thus destroying everything while trying to impose our own views upon the others that we do not see as having the same rights to this world that we have.
And this way of doing things is neither Godlike nor intelligent.
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Legend
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BUT who am I to say they have no right
This is the conclusion we all know is correct,...
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The Muslims and Christians have historically competed for the title of Most Fanatic and Brutal over the centuries. Torture, beheading, rape, genocide, slavery, persecution, inquisition, etc etc. The blood of millions lies at the feet of both. Entire races and cultures wiped out to build the mosques and cathedrals.
Both religions have a prophet who preached peace. Either religion throwing stones at the other is hypocrisy of the highest order.
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Legend
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j/c
Everyone realizes that this issue has been completely manufactured in an attempt to create a wedge topic for voting purposes, right?
The Dems and the GOP love issues that don't really matter but divide.
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Sure,...but I doubt it changes the way I vote.
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Legend
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Sure,...but I doubt it changes the way I vote.
It's not so much about swaying votes as it is having a safe ground for debate.
Neither party has any interest at all in discussing real issues or ideas. They'd much rather find lightning rod issues that don't matter, but get people talking and give them campaign fodder.
So you wind up with talking points that have no basis in the reality of the real issues our country faces -- mosques, gay marriage, socialism, etc.
It's much easier to say you're for or against a mosque than it is to get into real issues ... mainly because the two parties are pretty much identical in terms of action.
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It isn't that they have no right but rather that it is just in poor taste. Should they be prohibited? No, that isn't the American way. Should they do it because they can? No, they shouldn't.
My 2 cents.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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You're preaching to the choir there,...
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Dawg Talker
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In the video clip 'Third Jihad', it says the Muslim faith is mandated to rise to the top above all other faiths and impose their Muslim Sharia Law on the world. Furthermore it is the responsibility of ALL Muslims to aide in this Jihad...
So watching a video clip that claims that Muslims are hell bent on converting the entire world to Islam is a "good source". So, does that mean that when the NAACP says something you don't like you can claim that the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan made a video proving your point about the NAACP.
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For those who do not wish to follow the radical ways, an obvious course of action would be to manipulate situations to the benefit of the faith non-violently... could this be what we are seeing here?
Radical, key word there, radical. Are all Muslims radical? No. Are a majority? Again no. There are over 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world. If all Muslims were terrorists there would be billions of terrorist attacks each day. What is being built, is a cultural center. There is already a cultural center for muslims in New York city - it is located in a basement. There is a mosque 4 blocks away from Ground Zero. What is being built is an Islamic Cultural center complete with a gynasium, culinary school, a pool, a basketball court, etc... Mosques are temples devoted to prayer. You don't get gymnasiums, culinary schools, nor basketball courts in Mosques.
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I mean anyone should be able to see that Americans as a whole would be at least somewhat miffed by the building of this mosque. And that this would strike up a bitter controversy between the Tea Party types and the politically correct tree hugger types.
So, Americans should be angry that an Islamic Cultural Center is being built? The only fight that is being created is a racist fight. Already, one person has been assaulted in New York because they identified themselves as Muslim. How many more have to be attacked before you see this is nothing short of Islamophobia? Do Muslims need to die because they worship Islam in order for you to see that the only thing that is fueling this is bigotry on the part of the Stop Islamization of America foundation?
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Personally I don't make a distinction between "radical" Muslims and Muslims as a whole. Every religion has its nut-jobs. But after watching the beheading videos and listening to some of the cultural stories from the guys I know who served over there... I don't have much use for any of the Muslim beliefs. To me, proclaiming yourself a Muslim is the same as saying "Hey I'm an Idiot!”
So, you are of the belief that all Muslims are terrorists. As you said yourself you do not see a distinction between "radical" Muslim terrorists and regular everyday Muslims. Your belief falls right in line with the Stop Islamization of America group. So, why even debate with you. You already believe that there are nearly 2 Billion Muslim terrorists out there that need to be murdered.
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when some other nut-job blows that Mosque or its people to hell I'll make sure I take the same stance.
So, it is only terrorism when Muslims do it. If a Christian blows up a Mosque with people inside, it is acceptable.
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Quote:
What is being built is an Islamic Cultural center complete with a gynasium, culinary school, a pool, a basketball court, etc... Mosques are temples devoted to prayer. You don't get gymnasiums, culinary schools, nor basketball courts in Mosques.
I call BS. There will be a mosque there, and they even say so on their own website. Why lie to make your argument?
http://www.park51.org/facilities.htm
Facilities
Park51 will grow into a world-class community center, planned to include the following facilities:
•outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
•a 500-seat auditorium
•a restaurant and culinary school
•cultural amenities including exhibitions
•education programs
•a library, reading room and art studios
•childcare services
• A MOSQUE , intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community
•a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Quote:
What is being built is an Islamic Cultural center complete with a gynasium, culinary school, a pool, a basketball court, etc... Mosques are temples devoted to prayer. You don't get gymnasiums, culinary schools, nor basketball courts in Mosques.
I call BS. There will be a mosque there, and they even say so on their own website. Why lie to make your argument?
http://www.park51.org/facilities.htm
Facilities
Park51 will grow into a world-class community center, planned to include the following facilities:
•outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
•a 500-seat auditorium
•a restaurant and culinary school
•cultural amenities including exhibitions
•education programs
•a library, reading room and art studios
•childcare services
• A MOSQUE , intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community
•a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all
A prayer space, that is what it is. It is not a "proper" mosque. Mosques are devoted to prayer. You don't go to a mosque in Mecca to learn how to cook. You don't go to a Mosque in Cairo to learn how to cook. You cry "BS" all you want but it is exactly as I said it was.
Even you stated it, right here:
•outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
•a 500-seat auditorium
•a restaurant and culinary school
•cultural amenities including exhibitions
•education programs
•a library, reading room and art studios
•childcare services
A mosque is a place of worship. Like a Catholic Church, or a Baptist Church. You go there for worship. You don't go there to play basketball. You don't go there to check out books or participate in an art studio.
So, what is this? It is a Cultural Center.
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Legend
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Cut the BS. The Muslim developers themselves call it a Mosque on their own website. Absolute proof is right there before your eyes. There's no way to twist it. "...but it's not a proper Mosque" 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
JC.
If it had been called the "51 Park Place Cultural Center" from the beginning, no one would have even batted an eye.
Even then, Cordoba is nothing.
Cordoba is the old Roman village of Corduba. The Visogoths conquered Iberia and Corduba was included in their empire. Then, the Moors conquered Spain and interbred with the inhabitants. Eventually, the Moors were done in by civil strife amongst themselves. Something that the newly created Kingdoms of Leon and Castille capitalized on.
Leon and Castille were inspired by the life of El Cid. El Cid believed that the Moors were a blight on Europe and had to be eliminated. The Kingdoms of Leon and Castille believed it was their Christian duty to kill all the non-Christians in Spain.
Because of their new shock troops known as Conquestadores they succeeded. Jews and Muslims were eliminated in Spain by 1492. Many Moors tried to keep their homes in Spain by converting to Catholicism. These were known as Morisco. But, even they were not spared. By 1614 a new edict was passed in Spain which threatened all people of Muslim descent (even the Morisco) with death. So, even the Morisco were forced to flee into Morocco.
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Legend
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Quote:
Cut the BS. The Muslim developers themselves call it a Mosque on their own website. Absolute proof is right there before your eyes. There's no way to twist it.
"...but it's not a proper Mosque"
Who cares?
Seriously.
Muslims have as much right to worship as anyone else.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg Talker
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Cut the BS. The Muslim developers themselves call it a Mosque on their own website. Absolute proof is right there before your eyes. There's no way to twist it.
"...but it's not a proper Mosque"
It is a Cultural Center that includes a prayer space.
It is right there on that website. You just have to have reading comprehension. It is other things than a Mosque. A mosque is a building devoted completely to prayer and no non-Muslims are allowed.
This prayer space in the Islamic Center is not the entire building and is expected to be 2 floors out of the 13 floors. Even if it was completely a Mosque as you put it complete with minarets I wouldn't care. There are Catholic Churches, Protestant Churches, and Synagogues nearby as well.
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Legend
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I don't have a card in this deck. I'm just sick of people perpetuating the lie that it's not a mosque in order to gain support or argue a point. I do understand those that lost loved ones to those claiming to have killed them in the name of Islam having bad feelings about it. None of us can say how we'd feel in a similar situation.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
I don't have a card in this deck. I'm just sick of people perpetuating the lie that it's not a mosque in order to gain support or argue a point. I do understand those that lost loved ones to those claiming to have killed them in the name of Islam having bad feelings about it. None of us can say how we'd feel in a similar situation.
So, you understand the non-Muslims who lost lives in the 9/11 attacks that are agaisnt the Cultural Center. But, you do not understand the Muslims who lost lives in 9/11 attacks and the non-Muslims who support the Cultural Center.
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Legend
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A mosque is a place of worship. Like a Catholic Church, or a Baptist Church. You go there for worship. You don't go there to play basketball. You don't go there to check out books or participate in an art studio.
My Methodist church has an indoor basketball court and I go there to play basketball every Sunday night, it also has a small stage for productions, a commercial kitchen, a small library where books are checked out, a preschool, and rooms where they hold every kind of seminar and teaching imaginable from Bible study to personal financial planning to crafts to health and wellness...
and it's a church.
So there are plenty of reasons to defend allowing them to build it but the fact that "it's not really a mosque" because it has other stuff associated with it, isn't one of them.. 
yebat' Putin
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My Methodist church has an indoor basketball court and I go there to play basketball every Sunday night, it also has a small stage for productions, a commercial kitchen, a small library where books are checked out, a preschool, and rooms where they hold every kind of seminar and teaching imaginable from Bible study to personal financial planning to crafts to health and wellness...
and it's a church.
So there are plenty of reasons to defend allowing them to build it but the fact that "it's not really a mosque" because it has other stuff associated with it, isn't one of them..
The primary use of your church is not those things. The primary use of this building is those things. If the primary use of it was a Mosque, the Mosque would be say, 11 floors of the 13. Instead of the two floors that it is planned to be.
As I said earlier, even if they scrapped the entire "Cultural Center" side of it and made is simply a Mosque. I would have no problem with it - but they aren't. The primary use of the Building is to be a Cultural Center.
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Legend
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It is right there on that website. You just have to have reading comprehension.
Sorry Charlie. Are you frickin' blind? The word "mosque" is right there plain as day. I see it, don't you? It says there will be a mosque there.
Here's the link again. It's the 7th bulleted point:
http://www.park51.org/facilities.htm
Are you saying the muslim developers are wrong to call it a mosque? Maybe you should enlighten them. Keep digging.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Cut the BS. The Muslim developers themselves call it a Mosque on their own website. Absolute proof is right there before your eyes. There's no way to twist it.
"...but it's not a proper Mosque"
It is a Cultural Center that includes a prayer space.
It is right there on that website. You just have to have reading comprehension. It is other things than a Mosque. A mosque is a building devoted completely to prayer and no non-Muslims are allowed.
This prayer space in the Islamic Center is not the entire building and is expected to be 2 floors out of the 13 floors. Even if it was completely a Mosque as you put it complete with minarets I wouldn't care. There are Catholic Churches, Protestant Churches, and Synagogues nearby as well.
Out of pure curiosity: The church I go to has a gym. It's open to the public on certain days. My church also "donates" (for lack of a better term) room for the boy scouts to meet each week. It also has a kitchen, as well as a small theater.
Also, the sanctuary apparently has fantastic acoustic attributes - since many area high school choirs request to use it due to the acoustics.
Is my church - my christian church - technically called a "community center"??
Also, might wanna be careful with the "a muslim was attacked in new york...." thing.
Here's your quote: "Already, one person has been assaulted in New York because they identified themselves as Muslim."
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Out of pure curiosity: The church I go to has a gym. It's open to the public on certain days. My church also "donates" (for lack of a better term) room for the boy scouts to meet each week. It also has a kitchen, as well as a small theater.
Also, the sanctuary apparently has fantastic acoustic attributes - since many area high school choirs request to use it due to the acoustics.
Is my church - my christian church - technically called a "community center"??
Also, might wanna be careful with the "a muslim was attacked in new york...." thing.
Here's your quote: "Already, one person has been assaulted in New York because they identified themselves as Muslim."
Be careful? No. Bigotry and Hatred go hand in hand with violence. Hitler and the Gestapo made sure of that, as a modern example. Jews were compared to Rats because Rats spread disease. So, in order to convince the German populace that Jews were the enemy, they compared them to rats. Further, Germans claimed that the Slavs were nothing but Communists and Socialists who rose up against their only role in life (as he saw it) - Slavery. Slavs were fit be slaves. Jews? Rats. Made it easy to go after thim. What about the Poles? Terrorists.
So, now, what is that about Muslims again? They are what? Oh, yea, the same thing Hitler called the Poles. You keep labeling all Muslims and terrorists and anti-American and you will attract the wrong people. Why do I say this? Because bigotry and hatred ALWAYS attracts the worst in people.
As for your church. It is not a Cultural Center because the primary use of your church is worship. There are things called Primary roles. Organizations have things that they focus on doing - especially in buildings. The Primary role of your church is worship. They also have things that they do in the community. But their primary focus is religion. The Islamic Cultural center, it's primary use is to provide to the community. Providing recreation, food, and art. That is why a whole 11 floors are devoted to mostly those things. Then, the top two floors are devoted to prayer. Prayer away from those participating in the other things. Seperate from them. Not amongst them. But, if you would like to see their prayer area, you are welcome to go to it and see for yourself. Why? Because as it states on their site: "It is open to public".
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Rookie
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A mosque is a building devoted completely to prayer and no non-Muslims are allowed.
You're completely wrong  Anyone is allowed to come and pray in a mosque as long as they are respectful towards the customs.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satel...r/FatwaE/FatwaE
cscc is the place to be
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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The primary use of your church is not those things. The primary use of this building is those things.
Then leave the mosque out as a gesture to "build a bridge"... Seriously, if it is secondary to the purpose of the building then to alleviate much of the angst, leave it out, build it somewhere else.. just build a cultural center... Like most others I'm not arguing their right to build it, they have the right to build it.. but if they wanted the frenzy to die down, a simple gesture like removing a secondary function of the building (like the mosque part) would give them the high ground and they would get a lot more support...
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If the primary use of it was a Mosque, the Mosque would be say, 11 floors of the 13. Instead of the two floors that it is planned to be.
I'm not going to keep arguing details but the sanctuary portion of my church is about 1200 square feet.. the building with the gym, kitchen and class rooms in it is close to 6000 sf, the preschool building is 3000 sf, there is another education building which is over 4000 sf, and the youth building with a small kitchen, a pool table and a foosball table is another 2000 sf and none of this counts the outside playgrounds, etc...... overall the sanctuary is probably less than 20% of the total building space... Now I think I remember you saying that you were not raised in a church going family and have never been a church going person.. so why are you trying to tell me what constitutes a church?
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As I said earlier, even if they scrapped the entire "Cultural Center" side of it and made is simply a Mosque. I would have no problem with it
That's fine, you have a better argument if you just admit its a mosque and go with the constitutional argument.
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The primary use of the Building is to be a Cultural Center.
Then I go back to my original statement.. if thats the case, in an effort to build that bridge that the imam likes so much.. drop the mosque from the plans.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,230
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,230 |
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A mosque is a building devoted completely to prayer and no non-Muslims are allowed.
You're completely wrong Anyone is allowed to come and pray in a mosque as long as they are respectful towards the customs.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satel...r/FatwaE/FatwaE
As per your site:
1- Non-Muslims are allowed to enter mosques – other than the Sacred Mosque in Makkah – with a prior permission of Muslims.
(Can't visit the Sacred Mosque in Mecca and cannot visit other Mosques unless given permission)
2- They must have a sound reason for entering the mosque.
(Can't enter unless for reasons approved by those in the Mosque)
3- They should respect the decorum of the mosque and keep in mind that it is a sacred place of worship.
(Can't enter unless they have a reason that is approved and must show proper respect)
4- Both men and women are not allowed to uncover their `Awarah (parts of the body which should not be exposed in front of others) when entering the mosque.
(Visitors cannot be exposed)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
If I was to visit a mosque, and I probably would like to, I have no problem with any of that other than I wonder what a sound reason to enter is.. I would respect their customs and respect that it is a sacred place for them and I would cover up my manscape.. but I wonder if "curiosity" is a valid reason?
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 72
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 72 |
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A mosque is a building devoted completely to prayer and no non-Muslims are allowed.
You're completely wrong Anyone is allowed to come and pray in a mosque as long as they are respectful towards the customs.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satel...r/FatwaE/FatwaE
As per your site:
Um no as per me 
I'm Christian and have been to a mosque 4 different times so you absolutely lose on the ridiculous statement you made above
My link to a site was only to prove your complete ignorance
Have a nice night 
cscc is the place to be
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 895
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 895 |
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A prayer space, that is what it is.
Undocumented workers anyone? I always wonder why people play word games when it is painfully obvious they are just avoiding the truth. Hey, I didn't punch you I slapped you with a closed hand!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 |
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As for your church. It is not a Cultural Center because the primary use of your church is worship. There are things called Primary roles.
Interesting. We have worship on Sunday mornings. 2 services - we go to the first one - at 8, cause it's one hour. The second one, at 10:30 can sometimes last an hour and half.......
That is the "official" worship time. And, actually, for about 6 months every year, there is a 2 hour program on wed. nights for kids.
Other than that - that's the "official" worship time.
I forgot to add that our church "donates" 2 classrooms for a pre-school program. Yup, it's held at our church - but it is licensed by the state, and not one of the teachers attends our church, let alone be a member of our church.
No, it sounds to me, by your definition, I attend a cultural center. .Quote:
Organizations have things that they focus on doing - especially in buildings. The Primary role of your church is worship.
I know you don't know my church, so I'll ignore this ignorant statement from you.
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They also have things that they do in the community. But their primary focus is religion. The Islamic Cultural center, it's primary use is to provide to the community. Providing recreation, food, and art. That is why a whole 11 floors are devoted to mostly those things. Then, the top two floors are devoted to prayer. Prayer away from those participating in the other things. Seperate from them. Not amongst them. But, if you would like to see their prayer area, you are welcome to go to it and see for yourself. Why? Because as it states on their site: "It is open to public".
Again, as I stated - if you want to talk square footage - about 1/8 of my church is dedicated to worship - and that's for only a few hours per week - maybe 3 total. However, with the boy scouts, the open gym, preschool (state sanctioned - not church sanctioned by the way - my daughter went there - she never once came home with Bible verses or any other "religious" things)......well, add it all up - the free meeting rooms........well, according to your definition, my church is a cultural center. You put out the rules for cultural center - I'm just following them.
And yes, be careful with your "a person has already been assaulted in new york because they were muslim" statements. It just might bite you in the rear.
Regardless, at least we have established that I attend a cultural center, and not a Christian church.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,230
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,230 |
Quote:
Then leave the mosque out as a gesture to "build a bridge"... Seriously, if it is secondary to the purpose of the building then to alleviate much of the angst, leave it out, build it somewhere else.. just build a cultural center... Like most others I'm not arguing their right to build it, they have the right to build it.. but if they wanted the frenzy to die down, a simple gesture like removing a secondary function of the building (like the mosque part) would give them the high ground and they would get a lot more support...
No, because the mosque is needed because the nearest mosque is too small to accomodate the Muslim populace that needs a place to worship. Mosques in New York have been forced to hold multiple events all day to cover the Muslim population.
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That's fine, you have a better argument if you just admit its a mosque and go with the constitutional argument.
No, because whenever American see the word "Mosque" they have this picture in their head:
http://www.inewscatcher.com/timages/ddbdf4f856a7377588dbdae61904b215.jpg
You are aware that NYC isn't the only Islamic building seeing protest right?
This is not an "isolated event". Islamic buildings are being opposed in:
NYC (the one that this thread is about)
Murfeesboro, TN
Temecula, Cali
Wisconsin (all Mosque projects put on hold by state)
If your problem is about it being "too close to Ground Zero" how close is too close? Because right now, it looks like Tennessee, California, and the entire state of Wisconsin are too close as well.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,230
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,230 |
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My link to a site was only to prove your complete ignorance
I suggest you click your site that you provided as evidence.
You know, your site you linked located at:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satel...r/FatwaE/FatwaE
Scroll down to the bottom.
At the bottom you will find this:
Based on the above Fatwas, we can say that non-Muslims, including Christians and Jews, are allowed to enter mosques, but they should abide by the following conditions:
1- Non-Muslims are allowed to enter mosques – other than the Sacred Mosque in Makkah – with a prior permission of Muslims.
2- They must have a sound reason for entering the mosque.
3- They should respect the decorum of the mosque and keep in mind that it is a sacred place of worship.
4- Both men and women are not allowed to uncover their `Awarah (parts of the body which should not be exposed in front of others) when entering the mosque.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What does that say, that non-Muslims can enter Mosques conditionally.
1. Cannot enter the Mosque in Mecca (PERIOD) and cannot enter other Mosque without permission
2. Cannot enter unless valid reasons (likely have to have approval by Imam)
3. Must be respectful
4. Must have clothing covering exposed areas.
Also, as to your claim. It is really easy to claim things on the internet. Did you know that I've been to 1500 churches? (Not really, but I can claim it) Did you know I am related to Julius Caesar (not likely).
Or, I could mix up truth in with things as well. Did you know, that even though I am an Atheist. I go to Church on Sundays? (I am an Atheist, and I do go to church on Sundays - at least I did untill I was 6)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,660 |
Not just to you Charlie.... But we seem to be chasing fireflies. 
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 |
Will non muslims be able to enter this "cultural" center without permission from muslims?
I mean - in my cultural center - the cultural center I attend that is - everyone is welcome. The doors are unlocked at about 8 a.m., and they are locked at 11 p.m. - and otherwise - ANYONE can enter, at any time - they don't even need permission from the Christians.
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