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I would add it isn't just Holmgren by himself, either: his reputation meant we could go bring in a guy like Tom Heckert, who I assume played a fairly big role with building the Eagles, a consistent franchise the past decade.
Front office moves like that help take the "dys" out of dysfunction. We no longer -hopefully - will have what we got with RAC/Savage and whatever the hell it was they were trying to do (did Savage not see what most of us saw at the end of 2007 with DA? Nope, he couldn't have because he inked him to a stupid contract).
And of course I won't even get into the colossal Botching that was Davis in the early part of the 2000s.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
I would add it isn't just Holmgren by himself, either: his reputation meant we could go bring in a guy like Tom Heckert, who I assume played a fairly big role with building the Eagles, a consistent franchise the past decade.
Front office moves like that help take the "dys" out of dysfunction. We no longer -hopefully - will have what we got with RAC/Savage and whatever the hell it was they were trying to do (did Savage not see what most of us saw at the end of 2007 with DA? Nope, he couldn't have because he inked him to a stupid contract).
And of course I won't even get into the colossal Botching that was Davis in the early part of the 2000s.
I kinda looked at it that way, but in addition, I looked at some other things to find positives..
Heckert worked for Miami,, he was there when Shula was there.. it would have been difficult not to pick up some traits and teachings from a guy like him. He worked for Andy Ried in Philly.. again a very good guy to garner info and as it turns out, someone that learned under Holmgren so there is that tie in as well.
Then you add in Mangini who, dispite what some will say, worked for one of the all time great coaches in Belichick (it sickens me to say it, but damn, it's true).. There are things he has learned from him.. now he has Holmgren.
Think back on how holmgren was taught and who mentored him.., Bill Walsh and then go further back and see where Walsh got his mentoring.... Paul Brown.
So it's like it's come full circle..
Does it mean we are destined for a SB in the next couple of years? NO.. it doesn't. Does it assure us of being a better team than last year? NO, ,It doesn't.
Just saying, of all the regimes that we've had here since the return,, this one has a pedigree greater than any other..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
I would add it isn't just Holmgren by himself, either: his reputation meant we could go bring in a guy like Tom Heckert, who I assume played a fairly big role with building the Eagles, a consistent franchise the past decade.
Front office moves like that help take the "dys" out of dysfunction. We no longer -hopefully - will have what we got with RAC/Savage and whatever the hell it was they were trying to do (did Savage not see what most of us saw at the end of 2007 with DA? Nope, he couldn't have because he inked him to a stupid contract).
And of course I won't even get into the colossal Botching that was Davis in the early part of the 2000s.
I kinda looked at it that way, but in addition, I looked at some other things to find positives..
Heckert worked for Miami,, he was there when Shula was there.. it would have been difficult not to pick up some traits and teachings from a guy like him. He worked for Andy Ried in Philly.. again a very good guy to garner info and as it turns out, someone that learned under Holmgren so there is that tie in as well.
Then you add in Mangini who, dispite what some will say, worked for one of the all time great coaches in Belichick (it sickens me to say it, but damn, it's true).. There are things he has learned from him.. now he has Holmgren.
Think back on how holmgren was taught and who mentored him.., Bill Walsh and then go further back and see where Walsh got his mentoring.... Paul Brown.
So it's like it's come full circle..
Does it mean we are destined for a SB in the next couple of years? NO.. it doesn't. Does it assure us of being a better team than last year? NO, ,It doesn't.
Just saying, of all the regimes that we've had here since the return,, this one has a pedigree greater than any other..
We can only hope 
![[Linked Image from i96.photobucket.com]](http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l197/thazen/brownsflag2.jpg) GO BROWNS!
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I want to believe in this team, and this regime, but I am not letting myself fall for this again.
I've gotten my hopes up, and seen the optimism for this team die by the middle of October too many times to let myself fall for it anymore.
This organization has made me feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football, and I refuse to let that happen again.
I have watched this team since 1964 and i feel your pain. The great teams of the sixties are a distant memory. I saw Art Modell play Daniel Snyder in early 1970s and destroy the team. I saw him deal Warfield( Hall o Fame wr), Bob Matheson( named for the 56 defense in Miami), Jack Gregory( probowl DE), Jim Kanicki( pro bowl DT), Ron Johnson( pro bowl RB), Marvin Upshaw( top DE to KC) and saw the browns get nothing in return. Worse was to see perennial Home coming patsy Pittsburgh become a juggernaut..In the 80s I saw Modell run marty Schottenhiemer out of town after playoff in each of his 4 years coaching...and the brain dead Byner for mike oliphant trade....I saw this team Ruin a great QB with mediocre blocking ( Kosar). I saw belichik gut Kosar Midseason and then modell gut him and move the team...But I REALLY feel your pain as in this last decade i saw the very worst browns football ever. I saw this ownership hire FOUR in a row ROOKIE GMS and watch them blow draft after draft and saw mediocre coaching parley poor talent and field some pretty abysmal football....
Then i saw something I have not seen in ages. people with real football acumen making the decisions. I do not believe in Holmgren out of Faith because i have seen enough to know the difference between brain dead clueless front offices we have had to bear and a guy who knows what he is really doing. I am actually getting excited because i know this man burns with a passion to get this right...and WHEN he does Cleveland fans will be hugging eachother like fans of the red Sox finally did.
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I like Mangini, the guy has a chip on his shoulder. It seems that everyone around the league hates the dude's guts and absolutely goes for the jugular. If he starts winning you'll see it more and more. He did something that most of the other team's personnel was hush hush about. If you want a villain, here he is. Personally, it's high time we have someone back there who is not going to pull punches. He is downright mean when he wants to be and it helps.
We kinda saw that spark at the end where the team finally looked like they wanted to play for him. And I sincerely hope that the team understands it throughout the season. If the game is entertaining to watch and guys are flying around smacking people around, and they lose... I don't care. If the team ends up 4-12 but looks like they care then I think it will be a successful team and a building block for the future.
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Pretty good read, fair for the most part as well. Nothing really new, but it's that time of year.
Holmgren hopes to reverse the Dawg Days
Browns’ new president unhappy about talent, but optimistic for future
By Steve Doerschuk
updated 2:14 a.m. ET, Wed., July 21, 2010
It's a wonder the word optimism hasn't been deleted from dictionaries of Browns fans. Of the NFL's 32 teams, Cleveland is one of four never to reach a Super Bowl. And the Browns haven't tasted an NFL playoff win since 1994. The team has been 6-10 or worse six times since last reaching the postseason in 2002.
Somehow, though, optimism is in bloom.
The reason is new president Mike Holmgren. An overwhelming majority of Browns fans seems to love him, even if it hates what he inherited. In consort with new general manager Tom Heckert, Holmgren made an immediate splash, attacking a sparse free-agent market, trading quarterbacks out, bringing quarterbacks in, etc.
Holmgren avoided a complete overhaul by keeping coach Eric Mangini, who was 1-11 at one point last year but won his last four games. Aside from left tackle Joe Thomas and special teams dynamo Josh Cribbs, there wasn't much on the inherited roster.
Holmgren just wants to put together a credible season and build momentum for 2011.
What's new
Offense: The Browns went for a New England look in 2009 with ex-Patriots assistant Brian Daboll calling plays, but the passing game was pathetic. Quarterbacks Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson both struggled with a receiving corps that wasn't up to NFL snuff. By the end of the year, the offense not only gave Jerome Harrison his first shot at being a No. 1 back but also pushed him unusually hard (106 carries for 561 yards in the final three games).
Slideshow
Image: Seattle Seahawks v Indianapolis Colts
2010 NFL preview
Colts RB Donald Brown is one player poised for a breakout season. But he's just one small part of this year's camp previews. Click here for more.
Sporting News
Look for the Browns to implement facets of the West Coast attack that helped Holmgren reach three Super Bowls as a head coach. QB Jake Delhomme has the ability and experience to make it work but needs to have a comeback at age 35 after a miserable '09 in Carolina. The club thinks it can give Delhomme an environment that will restore his psyche.
Defense: Mangini and coordinator Rob Ryan loved brainstorming game plans when together in New England, and the two work well together now. The Browns' system requires a big, active three-man front that is willing and able to occupy double teams.
Ryan enjoys trying to outsmart offensive coordinators with creative twists, stunts and blitzes. Even though he didn't have an elite pass rusher in '09, Ryan milked 40 sacks out of 16 players. Look for him to take more chances if he gains more confidence in this year's revamped secondary.
Breakout player
Mohamed Massaquoi, WR: Massaquoi's rookie numbers weren't much to look at, but a few factors point to taking a big step in 2010. He is a hard worker who will put his '09 experience to good use. He has a new quarterback, Delhomme, who shows a knack for getting him the ball. Fellow second-year receiver Brian Robiskie has had a strong spring and is ready to diffuse the pressure.
"(Massaquoi) has outstanding hands. You could see that last year, not always in the games, although he had some good ones, but ... bunches of times at practice, he made just unbelievable catches. He makes good adjustments with his body. It's really impressive when you watch his growth—route in, route out." —Mangini
Opponent's view
"Being a defensive guy, I have a better grip on their offense but who knows what to expect from their offense? They still had (Braylon) Edwards when we played them last year. I wasn't super-worried about him, which is just the way you have to think, but you could tell he was fairly polished, a lot further along than some of their young guys. ...
"It's hard to know what to make of them now. Jamal Lewis was their main runner when we played, and now he's gone, too. Harrison wasn't even playing much then. They were bouncing back and forth between Quinn and Anderson, and now they have a different quarterback. ...
"It was hard to tell what they were trying to do with their offense last year. I just took it play to play, and they didn't do a lot against us. Delhomme gets your attention a little more; he's a pretty savvy guy, a real competitive dude. I assume they'll be more organized. Between Jake and Daboll, the coordinator, they should have more of a clue."
Bottom line
It's one thing for the hiring of Holmgren to have energized the fan base, but it's another for such a move to have changed the thinking of the players, scouts and coaches. Owner Randy Lerner wanted a credible football authority to take charge and change the way his operation is perceived. Mission accomplished.
It's hard to assemble a roster talented enough to break out of a culture of losing, but Holmgren seems to be chipping away at it so aggressively he might succeed. With an aging quarterback coming off a miserable year and too few offensive weapons, it's doubtful the Browns will surprise this year. But at least Holmgren has made people look—and made the players believe.
Depth chart
Offense
QB: Jake Delhomme, Seneca Wallace
FB: Lawrence Vickers, Peyton Hillis
RB: Jerome Harrison, Montario Hardesty
WR: Mohamed Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs
WR: Brian Robiskie, Chansi Stuckey
TE: Ben Watson, Robert Royal
LT: Joe Thomas, John St. Clair
LG: Eric Steinbach, Billy Yates
C: Alex Mack, Eric Ghiaciuc
RG: Floyd Womack, Shawn Lauvao
RT: Tony Pashos, John St. Clair
Defense
LE: Kenyon Coleman, Brian Schaefering
NT: Shaun Rogers, Ahtyba Rubin
RE: Robaire Smith, C.J. Mosley
OLB: Matt Roth, Jason Trusnik
ILB: D'Qwell Jackson, Kaluka Maiava
ILB: Scott Fujita, Eric Barton
OLB: David Bowens, Chris Gocong
CB: Eric Wright, Coye Francies
CB: Joe Haden, Sheldon Brown
SS: Abram Elam, Nick Sorensen
FS: T.J. Ward, Mike Adams
Specialists K: Phil Dawson
P: Dave Zastudil
KR: Josh Cribbs
PR: Josh Cribbs
LS: Ryan Pontbriand
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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The Walrus is gonna come out after a few losses.. lol. but dang.. can't wait til' next month...
GO BROWNS!!!!!!!!!!
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Man reading that roster I just can't see that team not competing every game they are in. We are not a deep team, but those starters, imo, are solid. Maybe not great players, but if a good scheme is used they could PLAY great. Injuries could ruin that, but every team lives with that truth.
Our Oline could be scary good. At the end of last year they were dominating, and I think Pashos will make it better. (either by starting or as a good bench player who pushes someone else to excel). The rookie would be a pleasant surprise.
Our dline is shaky, but has talent and mass. Size is hard to beat. I like Ryan, and think we'll be a decent to very good Defense this year (for once).
Special teams we're already one of the better teams in the league.
match us up stater to starter and I think we compete with most teams, and well within our division. just my opinion though.
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its all about execution.. as simple as the word is to type.. Cleveland and the word execution just does not go together.
They MUST execute to win.. no 3rd down misfortunes.. no easy dropped passes.. it has to stop. All of it!
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Quote:
Man reading that roster I just can't see that team not competing every game they are in. We are not a deep team, but those starters, imo, are solid. Maybe not great players, but if a good scheme is used they could PLAY great. Injuries could ruin that, but every team lives with that truth.
Our Oline could be scary good. At the end of last year they were dominating, and I think Pashos will make it better. (either by starting or as a good bench player who pushes someone else to excel). The rookie would be a pleasant surprise.
Our dline is shaky, but has talent and mass. Size is hard to beat. I like Ryan, and think we'll be a decent to very good Defense this year (for once).
Special teams we're already one of the better teams in the league.
match us up stater to starter and I think we compete with most teams, and well within our division. just my opinion though.
If Delhomme plays well, the O starters really look decent. The big question marks are obviously the WRs, but if Jake can get them the ball, and they can catch & run, we should at least put up some respectable numbers. This is not last years team by any stretch, with the two QB's who couldn't throw gone. I'm sure a lot of my optimism regarding the WR's is blind faith, but I see them as potentially surprising everyone.
Ryan and his D are gonna tear some asses up. Especially if they can stay off the field a while. I'll bet on that.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I had to double check that article to see how old it was....
For one it was using some rehashed quotes that we had seen in older articles. And then it listed Ghiaciuc as the backup Center who isn't even on the team. I was even more astonished to see it was written by Doerschuk who should be up to date on the Browns...
Overall not too bad of a wrap up on the offseason...just a little puzzling and a little lazy on the journalist's part...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Haden and Ward need to get their arses into camp ASAP!!
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Haden is in a precarious position as no one even remotely around him has signed their contract to give them a basis for starting negotiations. I am sure he is getting antsy. I am not going to blame either side for this situation....I think the other will start to get signed soon.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I have a feeling we'll see the usual flurry of contract signings within the next week or so.
Once Bradford signs his deal, the 1st rounders will start falling like dominoes.
With Ducasse and Tampa Bay's 2nd rounder already signed, the 2nd rounds might start signing sooner.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I noticed the same thing, Pete. I *know* that I've read that article before, I had to check the date on it, too.
My guess is that Doerschuk simply changed an item or two in the original and re-posted it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I had to double check that article to see how old it was....
For one it was using some rehashed quotes that we had seen in older articles. And then it listed Ghiaciuc as the backup Center who isn't even on the team. I was even more astonished to see it was written by Doerschuk who should be up to date on the Browns...
Overall not too bad of a wrap up on the off season...just a little puzzling and a little lazy on the journalist's part...
I agree......
Was this two separate stories? 
And how is Larry Asante not in the depth chart?
Sloppy reporting
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Quarterbacks Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson both struggled with a receiving corps that wasn't up to NFL snuff.
What does that mean,, we had good QB's but lousy receivers?
I don't think so. Holmgren is tuned into QB's.. If he thought that was the case, he'd have kept one or both QB's and gotten all new receivers..
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C: Alex Mack, Eric Ghiaciuc
as was already pointed out, Ghiaciuc isn't on the team anymore... how could he not know that?
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NT: Shaun Rogers, Ahtyba Rubin
JMO, but I don't think that's the way it's gonna work out. I bet Rubin holds down the NT spot and Rogers goes to one of the ends.. Just a thought.
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OLB: David Bowens, Chris Gocong
Maybe to start the season, but I bet it flip flops at some point...
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CB: Joe Haden, Sheldon Brown
I bet it's the other way around. at least at the beginning of the season. But we'll see.. They are gonna have to pay Haden a boat load of cash so they'll give him every chance to succeed.. Just a guess...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quarterbacks Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson both struggled with a receiving corps that wasn't up to NFL snuff.
What does that mean,, we had good QB's but lousy receivers?
I don't think so. Holmgren is tuned into QB's.. If he thought that was the case, he'd have kept one or both QB's and gotten all new receivers..
I don't think its an either or.. I think it's a poorly worded sentence because it takes 2 thoughts and combines them.. the QBs struggled AND the receiving corps wasn't very good. I do not think he is stating that one is the reason for the other..
yebat' Putin
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OLB: David Bowens, Chris Gocong
Maybe to start the season, but I bet it flip flops at some point...
I sincerely hope by the end of preseason. If not, then I would worry that Gocong isn't the upgrade many of us are hoping he becomes. We need a consistent pass rusher from the outside. I am hoping that is the role Gocong can fill along with Roth on the other side.
#gmstrong
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Here's another read on Holmgren from USA Today in regard to him adjusting from the sideline to the suit side of the business: web page
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Nice read,, Thanks Shep.,
I don't know that at 62, he'll ever coach again but it's possible.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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A good read.
It makes me a little nervous about Holmgren, though, in that it gave me the impression that Holmgren is only doing this to prove to himself that he can do it after failing with it in Seattle.
Perhaps nervous is too strong of a word, perhaps a twinge of "uneasy".
The last sentence is good, however..... A coach is a coach is a coach. There's no reason, IMO, that Holmgren can't get his fix by coaching the coaches.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Nice read,, Thanks Shep.,
I don't know that at 62, he'll ever coach again but it's possible.
I hope he doesn't for one simple reason.. that will mean the structure we have now has failed.. which means that a year or two we are still here HOPING for 8 win seasons..... so in that respect, I hope he NEVER coaches again.
yebat' Putin
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Nice read,, Thanks Shep.,
I don't know that at 62, he'll ever coach again but it's possible.
I hope he doesn't for one simple reason.. that will mean the structure we have now has failed.. which means that a year or two we are still here HOPING for 8 win seasons..... so in that respect, I hope he NEVER coaches again.
Or, it could mean that we win a superbowl in the next couple of years and he will have thought he accomplished what he wanted and now decided to move on into coaching somewhere else 
No, I don't buy that either 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Are you feeling ok? 
yebat' Putin
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Are you feeling ok?
Yeah,,, why do you ask
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren article from today
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