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Teams pick 3-4 LB projects in the 2nd round frequently though.
Shortly after the Browns selected David Veikune in the 2009 draft at #52 overall .....
The Ravens selected Paul Kruger in the 2nd round as a DE/OLB project at 57 overall. He had 11 tackles last year.
The Cardinals also drafted a DE/OLB project in the 2nd in Cody Brown at #63 overall. He injured his wrist and was IR for the year. He was cut this year as well.
That 3-4 OLB/Rush LB spot is often a hard one to fill successfully.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I was working on writing a big, drawn out post stating that I thought you almost needed to take a tweener in the top 20 picks to get the sort of size and speed combination that you need for the position, then I started to see something:
Mike Vrabel: 3rd Round
Tedy Bruschi: 3rd Round
Joey Porter: 3rd Round
Earl Holmes: 4th Round
Adalius Thomas: 6th Round
We may just need to hire a specialist that knows how to find 3-4 'backers, because getting them late is NOT the exception to the rule that I thought it was.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You forgot Elvis Dumerville, 4th Round. NTM James Harrison, undrafted.
Last year a guy went in the 7th round, Zack Follett, who started as a 3-4 OLB in college and was 1st-team all Pac-10 as well as top 3 in the nation in TFLs. Bear in mind that was in a year that USC had 3 LBs drafted in the first 35 picks. He's starting on a Detroit front 7 this year which features Suh, C. Williams, Vanden Bosch, Julian Petersen, Cliff Avril, and DeAndre Levy. 7-year-vet Landon Johnson is his backup.
Last edited by clevesteve; 09/08/10 09:30 AM.
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U guys are touching on the thing that is overlooked..you don't have to take a tweener early on as long as U know how to evaluate them and use them to their strengths..
Dang..Mour and I do this every year..and we're just on a message board.. 
Dumervile was one guy I really wanted instead of Wimbley..and usually one thing bothers me a great deal when we select players early ..if I have watched that player's school for years and I never remember seeing him or hearing anything about him, it tells me he was never a force and won't be..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 09/08/10 09:48 AM.
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We're not touching on it, that's the entire point we're making 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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alright smart guy..I know that.. but it's been said in here way too often..it's also like looking for WR's and RB's..you can find these guys all through the draft..
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Quote:
The most defeating part of this is two players selected right after the pick...
LeSean McCoy RB
Phil Loadholt OT
Shoulda coulda woulda..
Can you or anyone else sit here and tell us, with absolutly no doubt, that before the draft, Loadholt and McCoy would be what they are today?
NO, you can't.. Nobody can. People in that position make the best choice they can with info at thier disposal and with the team needs in mind..
Were both picks by the browns wrong? Hindsight tells us that it appears so.
SO WHAT..
It's almost as if people expect that every pick will work out. Would we be having this conversation if Viekune turned into the next Ray Lewis?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
I was working on writing a big, drawn out post stating that I thought you almost needed to take a tweener in the top 20 picks to get the sort of size and speed combination that you need for the position, then I started to see something:
Mike Vrabel: 3rd Round
Tedy Bruschi: 3rd Round
Joey Porter: 3rd Round
Earl Holmes: 4th Round
Adalius Thomas: 6th Round
We may just need to hire a specialist that knows how to find 3-4 'backers, because getting them late is NOT the exception to the rule that I thought it was.
Take for instance.....Veikune was taken in the 2nd round, then there are UDFA's like Benard who does seem able to make the transition from College DE to a 3-4 (5-2) defense.
So Mangini is 1 for 2.
I'll take 50/50 any year.
The only thing that might hedge your bets in the crap shoot is if they start to use it more in College.
They do run some 5-2 defenses, but the 2 stand up guy's translate to no more than Safety type prospects with little if any coverage responsibilities.
We already see more and more going to pro set offenses though, so there is a chance that some of the 3-4 assistants will eventually filter down to the College ranks.
It could happen.
I personally like running the 3-4, 1 gap or 2 gap NT
We use both and don't always give the offense the same look.
The 3-4 in it's original form was designed to stop the run on 1st and 2nd downs and put them in 3rd and long and be even 5 vs 5 (OL) rushing the QB on 3rd and obvious passing situations.
It's true that you need smart football players to run a 3-4/5-2 defense.
I love Alex Mack and don't wish him gone but I had my hopes set on drafting the perfect prospect to play in our 3-4.......
Clay Mathews Jr.
The nut sure didn't fall far there *L*
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Can you or anyone else sit here and tell us, with absolutly no doubt, that before the draft, Loadholt and McCoy would be what they are today?
Yep..some of us can..and that goes for a whole lot of draft picks the Browns have bypassed..don't know why U getting defensive about it..dude screwed up and U don't want to hear it..tuff..thats why we actually have a GM now.. People in that position make the best choice they can with info at thier disposal and with the team needs in mind..
 No they haven't..the clowns running our draft didn't know what the (fill in the blank) they were doing and had little idea about team needs..Phil was close but he still screwed up in various ways.. Were both picks by the browns wrong? Hindsight tells us that it appears so.
SO WHAT..
This is the crutch U and a lot of posters like to lean on.."HINDSIGHT"..it was a bad decison from the start..if we agreed with the pick intitally then later say we shouldn't have ,then U can say that..but I don't do that..I say from draft day whether I think the selection was spot on or horrible..I don't wait around and ride the fence on it..it isn't hindsight to say these guys including Gini made bad draft decisions..the problem with some of U is that you don't want to disagree with things like that,you don't want to accept when you make blunders like that U set the team back and U keep redrafting certain positions over and over again,thats so what!
But go ahead ,agree with everything they do..I 'll keep questioning them until they get it right.. It's almost as if people expect that every pick will work out. Would we be having this conversation if Viekune turned into the next Ray Lewis?
It wasn't about to happen..kids not even in the same class in college..the kid wasn't even being coached for his strengths..Mangini was throwing too much at him and never considered to find his strength and use it..he thought because he was smart he was throw everything at him and U simply cannot do that .He was trying to learn to play on the outside then he gets thrown inside..plus his talents are not on par with what the Browns wanted..who knows what Gini wanted..another Vrabel probably...
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yeah i gotta back up AD on this one... McCoy and Loadholt were obvious picks there at 50 and 52. It was almost like a countdown to those players on this board during the draft when the picks were coming up. That, and neither should have made it that far.
That being said, PL isn't as dominanat as I'd expected him to be. Obvious improvement over DV, though.
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Quote:
Can you or anyone else sit here and tell us, with absolutly no doubt, that before the draft, Loadholt and McCoy would be what they are today?
Yep..some of us can
I'm throwing the BS Flag there..
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People in that position make the best choice they can with info at thier disposal and with the team needs in mind..
No they haven't..the clowns running our draft didn't know what the (fill in the blank) they were doing and had little idea about team needs..Phil was close but he still screwed up in various ways..
Really easy to say all that in Hindsight isn't it...
Speaking of which
Quote:
Were both picks by the browns wrong? Hindsight tells us that it appears so.
SO WHAT..
This is the crutch U and a lot of posters like to lean on.."HINDSIGHT
I'm throwing the BS Flag again.. you must expect everyone to be perfect.. good for you,, but it's unrealistic as hell..
You love to do this.. tell everyone how bright you are,, after the fact..and before the fact, you come out with how this pick and that pick will fail.. and you do it so often that you have at least a 50% chance of being right.,. Good for you..
But using hindsight isn't a crutch.. not even close... BS Flag thrown...
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It's almost as if people expect that every pick will work out. Would we be having this conversation if Viekune turned into the next Ray Lewis?
It wasn't about to happen
Nice twist of words.... Good job,, BS Flag thrown again...
Dang it, I forgot my boots 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
yeah i gotta back up AD on this one... McCoy and Loadholt were obvious picks there at 50 and 52. It was almost like a countdown to those players on this board during the draft when the picks were coming up. That, and neither should have made it that far.
That being said, PL isn't as dominanat as I'd expected him to be. Obvious improvement over DV, though.
Sean Smith was the guy I wanted. Alot of people on the board liked Kruger as well.
#gmstrong
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I'm throwing the BS Flag there As many times as you throw it ,I'll pick it up..it's only BS to you because you feel offended(?) when the head guys are criticized for making blunders.. you must expect everyone to be perfect.. good for you,, but it's unrealistic as hell..
How long have you been on the Browns board??
Then U ought to know I'm every realistic..I don't get excited over players that are..scrubs..or are the wrong fit..and yes I'm not bragging but I do know how to evaluate players,if I see them enough and I along with a some others offer what I see and know a given player.. You love to do this.. tell everyone how bright you are,, after the fact..and before the fact, you come out with how this pick and that pick will fail.. and you do it so often that you have at least a 50% chance of being right.,. Good for you..
Yeah I tell everyone before the draft how a player will suck..lol..I tell U guys who I think we should go after and who to avoid..and guess what?
I'm not too far off the mark..I've had better mocks than the Browns have drafted actual players.. 
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Quote:
yeah i gotta back up AD on this one... McCoy and Loadholt were obvious picks there at 50 and 52. It was almost like a countdown to those players on this board during the draft when the picks were coming up. That, and neither should have made it that far.
That being said, PL isn't as dominanat as I'd expected him to be. Obvious improvement over DV, though.
Again,, why? they were obvious to you and AD and maybe others,, but that doens't mean they would have succeeded..
Dispite what AD is saying, there are NO SURE THINGS.. It's Hindsight..... and saying it's hindsight isn't a crutch..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Since you have to have everything explained to you over and over here goes:
1. Before the draft, AD says I like this guy.
2. Browns go in a different direction.
3. Guy AD likes is doing well and successful with team that drafted him.
4. Guy Browns draft is doing horribly, on the verge of being cut, or has been cut.
5. AD feels his draft pick would have been better and has the evidence to prove it based on #3 and #4.
Using the facts, AD has a point. I'm really not sure what's so hard to understand.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Since you have to have everything explained to you over and over here goes:
1. Before the draft, AD says I like this guy.
2. Browns go in a different direction.
3. Guy AD likes is doing well and successful with team that drafted him.
4. Guy Browns draft is doing horribly, on the verge of being cut, or has been cut.
5. AD feels his draft pick would have been better and has the evidence to prove it based on #3 and #4.
Using the facts, AD has a point. I'm really not sure what's so hard to understand.
do understand that, I'm not arguing that point at all.,,.
And since you think I need it explained: Perhaps you need to reread my argument...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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AD quite often hits the mark several times over. He also knows the corner position inside out.
Viekune is a bust. I hoped he wasn't, but he just did not have the physical talent to succeed. We would have been much better off picking up Shady McCoy in that spot, but went with the project instead. Edit: And talent is talent, I see no realistic scenario that would have McCoy performing worse here than he is in Philly.
Let's put it this way, David Viekune has played a large role into why Eric Mangini now has very little say into who they draft. Same thing happened in New York when they reached to take Gholston because that's who Mangini wanted.
I will say that the 09 draft is not bad, but...when looking at it outside of the who we got context *as in, we had the #5, traded it away and all we got back was Alex Mack*, then the 09 draft was horrid.
you had a good run Hank.
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Both the Veikune and Maiava picks had LOTS of people scratching their heads and wondering who the hell these kids are and what was our FO smoking.
Many of us just went with the flow figuring that they're Browns now, we'll give em a shot and support em.... but it doesn't change that fact that there was still a LOT of MUCH higher rated talent available on pretty much everybody's boards when we took those guys. Someone was getting cute, or outsmarting themselves, or something... but it was a completely FUBAR'd pick.
In baseball terms, we took a big, giant swing at a ball that was 2 feet outside.... sure, if we made contact and got a hit, it'd have been great, but the odds of that happening were pretty slim.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Again,, why? they were obvious to you and AD and maybe others,, but that doens't mean they would have succeeded..
These are guys who could have started..now I'm not gonna act like McCoy was my pick because he wasn't,but there were a lot on here who wanted him..I had Loadholt in my mock..and he was there..the fact is either would have become a starter..ask yourself this..if they had taken Loadholt would that right side be so unsettled as it is?
Veikune was not going to be a starter anytime soon and thats a waste for a second pick on a rebuilding team.
The odds on him panning out were not high but once again we had someone trying to outsmart himself instead of getting better value from the pick.
Thats why it's not hindsight Daman..and I'll tell you something right now before the season starts..if Biscuit doesn't have a decent productive year,thats another seconder that will be wasted.
I hope he does ..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 09/08/10 01:43 PM.
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.. " I'm not too far off the mark..I've had better mocks than the Browns have drafted actual players.. "
Not dis ya Dawg ; But the sad part of this is that many a long time poster has had better mock drafts year in and year out ..
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I know..thats the sad part..we've had better mocks than they have...
The thing about Viekune that I keep telling Daman is simple..Mangini outsmarted himself.. Veikune's growth was stunted because he was continually switching back and forth from inside to outside linebacker; but never truly settling at one or another.
This is a kid who excelled in college as a edge rusher who had a motor... Yet the coaches felt it was necessary to make him learn multiple different positions right out of the gate instead of using him at one spot and letting him learn that.
If they wanted a OLB/pass rusher then they should have scouted better..if they wanted a inside hammer ,they could have waited..the need in the second round was to get another starter somewhere on the team or at least a guy who was pushing to start..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 09/08/10 01:56 PM.
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Quote:
.. " I'm not too far off the mark..I've had better mocks than the Browns have drafted actual players.. "
Not dis ya Dawg ; But the sad part of this is that many a long time poster has had better mock drafts year in and year out ..
Yeah, but then none of us like AD have a say either.
AD I have no problem with you saying I told you so after saying it when Veikune was drafted, but by no means were you alone in your belief.
Like I posted earlier he missed on Veikune, but hit on Benard.
At least you have to give credit where credit is due and to our credit we did not compound the mistake by hanging on to him longer.
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Quote:
Were both picks by the browns wrong? Hindsight tells us that it appears so.
SO WHAT..
So... we're in the basement every year. I think it's the magnitude of the wiff that bothers me.This 2nd round LB wasn't even good enough to play special teams!
Using a 2nd round pick on a player that's going to have to learn a new position with the cupboard as bare as ours is too risky. I feel the same way about Hardesty. He may have some great years. I certainly hope so but the Browns need to stop the losing now.
We just can't afford to waste high draft picks if we're ever going to contend.
Strangely I'm kinda bummed at DVs release even though all it does is absolutely confirm what we all knew.
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Not saying I was alone..but since Daman was debating me I can't speak for others..infact there was one mouth in here who hated just about every pick..want me to say his name?
He'll probably be here when he sees this thread..starts with a "D"..
Like I posted earlier he missed on Veikune, but hit on Benard.
At least you have to give credit where credit is due and to our credit we did not compound the mistake by hanging on to him longer.
I agree to a point..who made the call on Veikune?
We picked up another DB(which we had to have) and let the kid go because of need..sounds like Heckert made that call..
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Quote:
Again,, why? they were obvious to you and AD and maybe others,, but that doens't mean they would have succeeded..
These are guys who could have started..now I'm not gonna act like McCoy was my pick because he wasn't,but there were a lot on here who wanted him..I had Loadholt in my mock..and he was there..the fact is either would have become a starter..ask yourself this..if they had taken Loadholt would that right side be so unsettled as it is?
Veikune was not going to be a starter anytime soon and thats a waste for a second pick on a rebuilding team.
The odds on him panning out were not high but once again we had someone trying to outsmart himself instead of getting better value from the pick.
Thats why it's not hindsight Daman..and I'll tell you something right now before the season starts..if Biscuit doesn't have a decent productive year,thats another seconder that will be wasted.
I hope he does ..
Slightly off topic but this is why I was really interested in the rookie fantasy pool I suggested immediately after the draft where you pick players, similar to a fantasy team, but had to pick them in the Browns slots and they had to be available at that point.
Unfortunately, there wasn't enough interest to play but, for matters of transparency, I'll post what I had...
QB- Jimmy Clausen (Rd 2, 38th overall)
RB- Ryan Mathews (Rd 1, 7th overall)
RB- Johnathon Dwyer (Rd 6, 186th overall)
WR- Brandon LaFell (Rd 3, 71st overall)
WR- Riley Cooper (Rd. 5, 146th overall)
TE- Anthony McCoy (Rd 6, 177th overall)
DL- Eversen Griffen (Rd 3, 92nd overall)
LB- Navarro Bowman (Rd 3, 85th overall)
CB/S- Parrish Cox (Rd. 5, 134th overall)
Flex-Anthony Dixon (Rd 5, 160th overall)
UDFA 1- Barry Church, Safety
UDFA 2- Jarret Brown, QB
UDFA 3- Javaris James, RB
I know both Riley Cooper and Ryan Matthews look to be doing well....Anyone know how the rest are panning out?
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Clausen appears to have had a good preseason..Parrish Cox looks good for a 5th rounder..
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Anthony Dixon got a promotion when Coffee stepped away.
#gmstrong
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Hold on AD,, I didn't say you were wrong,, I said that you could simply say that a lot of guys won't make it and you would be right more times than you are wrong..
About Viekune and Miava,, you were correct,, then and now. Loadholt and McCoy as well..
But you aren't running the team..you don't see all the data. they make those decisions based on what they see.. did they see the wrong stuff.. well, yeah., they did.. if you were sitting in the draft room and heard what they were thinking and looked at the data they were looking at, you might have done the same damn thing..
Point is, being on the outside looking in as we all are, doesn't give us the ENTIRE picture of reasons to pick or not pick a guy.
As proof of this, think about how much info teams get on each and every guy and yet, they still blow picks.. not just the Browns,, every team in the league does..
That was and remains my point.. Nobody is perfect..NOBODY can say for sure who's going to be great and who isn't. (of course if you can, then I have one question,, why aren't you working for a team)
All the teams saw all the same info on LeGarrett Blount... I wouldn't have touched him, yet tennesee picked him and then cut him.. That could come back to haunt them now that Tampa picked him up.. who knows..
Maurice Clarette picked in the 4th... Denver took a flyer on him and it didn't work.. they cut him as well.
Why didn't everyone see that Tom Brady would win 3 superbowls and play in a 4th.
How come nobody picked Marcus Benard as an OLB?
Seeing how athletic Josh cribbs is, how could every team pass on him in the draft? and as a UDFA, how is it that only two teams tried for him., Washington and us?
There isn't any way to be certain... none.. you use the info you have, you make the best choices for the team you work for. hopefully you guess right more often then you guess wrong.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Slightly off topic but this is why I was really interested in the rookie fantasy pool I suggested immediately after the draft where you pick players, similar to a fantasy team, but had to pick them in the Browns slots and they had to be available at that point.
Unfortunately, there wasn't enough interest to play but, for matters of transparency, I'll post what I had...
QB- Jimmy Clausen (Rd 2, 38th overall)
RB- Ryan Mathews (Rd 1, 7th overall)
RB- Johnathon Dwyer (Rd 6, 186th overall)
WR- Brandon LaFell (Rd 3, 71st overall)
WR- Riley Cooper (Rd. 5, 146th overall)
TE- Anthony McCoy (Rd 6, 177th overall)
DL- Eversen Griffen (Rd 3, 92nd overall)
LB- Navarro Bowman (Rd 3, 85th overall)
CB/S- Parrish Cox (Rd. 5, 134th overall)
Flex-Anthony Dixon (Rd 5, 160th overall)
UDFA 1- Barry Church, Safety
UDFA 2- Jarret Brown, QB
UDFA 3- Javaris James, RB
I know both Riley Cooper and Ryan Matthews look to be doing well....Anyone know how the rest are panning out?
I had Cox and Cooper with our 5th round picks.
Cox looks very good and might be better than others picked in the earlier rounds.
I liked Johnathon Dwyer going to us with one of our 6th round picks.
He could figure to see a lot of PT with the Steelers.
Jimmy Clausen,..... Let's just say I'm not a fan of.
Ryan Mathews was my top RB, but I knew he wasn't being considered with the # 7 pick.
I have no problem with Haden, considering who was on the board and where we were picking.
Jarret Brown was cut IIRC.
I liked FS Nate Allen with our second pick, but he was not there, so I am happy we got TJ Ward.
NT Torrell Tropp was my second choice however.
In the 3rd round I liked Jordan Shipley and DE's Mike Neal and Alex Carrington.
None were available and I really like Lauvao and did not expect to find a good OG or OT from the 5th round on so this pick was one I can say I'm glad to say it all worked out as it did.
The trade up to get Hardesty just blew my draft all to [Hotel Echo Lema Lema]. Although I had Mitchell going in the 4th round so it was I was very pleased to draft him in the 6th.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 09/08/10 03:02 PM.
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j/c
with what mangini recently said about the veikune cut, it was the development of titus brown and marcus benard that pushed veikune out. if that's teh case, i'd rather be wrong and have a coach able to develop undrafted talent than pile it on him for missing a pick. afterall, in one of the articles, this was one of the reasons cited for holmgren keeping mangini; the signs that he's started developing young, unheralded talent.
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Quote:
j/c
with what mangini recently said about the veikune cut, it was the development of titus brown and marcus benard that pushed veikune out. if that's teh case, i'd rather be wrong and have a coach able to develop undrafted talent than pile it on him for missing a pick. afterall, in one of the articles, this was one of the reasons cited for holmgren keeping mangini; the signs that he's started developing young, unheralded talent.
I agree and that's why I gave Mangini credit with Benard.....yes T Brown has also developed, but he was here before Mangini got here, but also made it hard to explain why we should have kept Veikune around.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Clausen appears to have had a good preseason..Parrish Cox looks good for a 5th rounder..
Claussen: 21-42 for 231 yards 0 TD 2 INT. His long pass was a pass short left that went for 50 yards.
Not horrible.
Nor great.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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true but for whatever reason, he's been able/willing to play these younger guys sooner than the last regime.
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I think every Coach we have had since 99 has had to play the rookies, maybe faster then they might have otherwise not had to do if not for the Hiatus which striped us of our core players.
Now you add to that the many changes a crossed the board.
It's no wonder we have yet to get back to any stability.
It has certainly been a lesson in futility for all, fans and players a like.
Have we finally turned the corner?
I'm cautiously optimistic.
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Legend
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Legend
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I can't wait until we don't NEED to play rookies.
I can't wait until we're in a situation where we can look every rookie in the eye and tell them "you'll get to play when you TAKE the position from the vet ahead of you".
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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i won't say we're fully there yet but that's the sense i get with mangini. with crennel, we played rookies because he had no choice and when he did, he opted to go with vets. here, players are legitimately taking away time, e.g. benard, schaeffering, and rubin.
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I would agree. Unfortunately with specialized players, only 53 man rosters, free agency and non-guaranteed contracts...I don't see that being a reality any time soon. Too much natural player turnover combined with small rosters creates holes every year. Not just for us either (even though we're definitely worse off being an expansion team and with all the F.O. turnover), but for basically everybody.
It's why I favor expanding rosters along with a rookie contract salary cap for the new CBA. It would help rookies actually EARN their spots instead of being given them because they're too expensive not to play or forced to play b/c there isn't anyone else.
Personally, I think the league loves it how it is though. Lots of holes to fill = makes the draft a big interest/draw. Lots of player turnover = renewed interest each and every year. And of course small rosters helps keep the playing field VERY level since teams are always scrambling to replace talent. The NFL is set up for every team to go 8-8 every year, just how they like it.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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yes T Brown has also developed, but he was here before Mangini got here, but also made it hard to explain why we should have kept Veikune around.
it was only 1 year..fact is Mangini should have first tried him at his strength..pass rusher...who knows if the kid wouldn't be good at that?
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Quote:
yes T Brown has also developed, but he was here before Mangini got here, but also made it hard to explain why we should have kept Veikune around.
it was only 1 year..fact is Mangini should have first tried him at his strength..pass rusher...who knows if the kid wouldn't be good at that?
I agree, maybe he should have been used as a PRS.
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Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
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This is obviously a position that I feel most people know as more of a gut feeling... but just thought I would put this up as some evidence of how bad our drafting has been ...
Players remaining on the current active roster from the following draft years:
2001: zero
2002: none
2003: 1 - the Pontbriand
2004: none
2005: not one
2006: 3 - Jackson, Harrison, Vickers
2007: 2 - Thomas, Wright
2008: 1 - Rubin
2009: 6 - Mack, Robiski, Veikune, Maiva, Massaquoi, Davis
While we cant expect to keep multiple players drafted almost a decade ago ... some players can last that long (heck I think we have 6 players on the roster of 53 that have 10 years or more ... so its not like it cant be done) .. it's rediculous to think that we have 7 players from before mangini's time 13 from before holmgrens time ...
heck, we had 8 players picked this past draft and we are already at 6 as part of our team ... that leaves us with 19 out of 53 as our "own" (I know we could get asante and geathers on the practice squad ... but we also might waive veikune or maiva as well as be looking to trade jackson in the near future ...?)
PStu24,
I somewhat agree with you, with a little wrinkle. They have to be an above average player, for the spot they were taken. This narrows it down to 6 guys so far. Pontbriand, Vickers, Thomas, Wright, Rubin and Mack. 
Sad to say, I don't think any of the top 3 picks of this years draft are ever going to live up to their point of selection, we left far superior talent on the board when taking those picks. It hurts to say this, but the best drafts so far belong to the guy we got rid of. Because some of the guys picked and we let go, are starters on other teams or good second teamers, if nothing else worth the point of selection. 
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum With the cuts today our draft
history looks ... terrible
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