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Yes, absolutely and without hesitation.
I think it is stupid as hell of them to do it, and I think that people should seriously consider distancing themselves from those idiots involved in doing it, but I fully support their right to do it.
I also think that more ire needs to be directed at the media for giving these dolts any attention at all.
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True, real muslims will look at burning the quran the way I look at people burning the Bible - what point does it serve?
Yah sure lot of muslims will just shake their head...but you REALLY have no clue what their culture is over there...
What you are missing is, I don't CARE what there culture is over there. They don't care what our culture is, either. Why should I bow to their culture? I'm of the opinion that "giving in to other cultures" is not any part of what made this country what it was - yes, was. I am of the opinion that doing what we see fit, in this country, is what made and allowed this country to at one time be a great country. What we are seeing in this country now is basically "let's fit in with everyone else's culture. We don't want to offend anybody". Consequently, we are offending ourselves, and many are too stupid to realize it.
Their culture is their culture. Our country is our country. I don't care what they think or do - right up until they force it on us/me.
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i know this because i'm from another country and realize how things from the outside look SO different form the way things really are in this country.
And, again, I should be concerned about that...........why? How's about THEY be concerned about our culture? Oh, that's too "me me me", okay. Then whey don't they worry about their culture, and we'll worry about ours? Why should we sack our culture just for them?
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There is no way this group of 50 incites muslims that were peace loving to all of a sudden decide to kill Americans. No way. That's stupid to even think.
You would be surprised how little it takes for them to pick up arms and go out and join the "holy war". Their whole war against the US is based upon trying to convince people that they don't respect islam and how ISLAM should rule the world...by burning a QURAN you are proving jsut that...do you think THEY will know it's 50 people burning it? NO they will see it "AMERICA BURNS QURAN" as the headline...do you get my point?
And if someone burning a koran incites them to kill Americans - aside from the fact they've always wanted to kill americans - well, that's their culture.
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i understand where you are coming from...it's like that saying. I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it 
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Man i'm shaking my head reading your last post...i don't know where to start..so i won't..
To the part hwere you are saying you don't give a damn about their culture is a huge problem. But thats how you feel so thats how you feel...this is why you are not the commander over there because if they thought that then nothing would ever be accomplished....
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It's EXACTLY like that saying.
And as so many have pointed out repeatedly in this thread: It isn't our job or responsibility to ensure that they - or anyone else - goes through their lives unoffended by the actions of others.
If the asshats over there get so offended by the asshats here because they lit some paper on fire that the asshats over there want to kill ANY American that they see, then they were going to reach that conclusion pretty easily anyway.
Furthermore, at what point do you stop walking on eggshells to placate them?
Ever seen that child that always gets his/her way because nobody wants to deal with the tantrums? Is that REALLY what you want to begin setting a precedent for?
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Man i'm shaking my head reading your last post...i don't know where to start..so i won't..
To me saying you don't give a damn about their culture is a huge problem. But thats how you feel so thats how you feel...this is why you are not the commander over there because if they thought that then nothing would ever be accomplished....
I care about their culture - but I sure as hell am not going to change mine to suit them.
Does that make sense?
They can have their culture, we'll have ours. Since when does the u.s. need to change in order to suit a different country's culture? I sure as hell don't know what you're getting at.
Face it - this country is made up of people from hundreds of other countries. How do we determine which other country should dictate our culture?
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I care about their culture - but I sure as hell am not going to change mine to suit them.
Does that make sense?
EXACTLY man....i'm the same...and that is why i love this country....i just think one should understand anothers culture before making judgements on it or commenting on it. If you are going to go into a country for 10 years to "HELP" them become a democracy then you better know where they come from before you try to HELP them.
Just because i understand where they are coming from doesn't mean i'm BOWING DOWN TO THEM...lol thats ignorance at it's finest
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Man I really shouldn't ask this,...and I'm not trying to put anybody on the spot,..but if we were all standing around a grave at a military funeral and these yahoos who show up to burn the American flag - like the one that is draped over this patriot's casket - and they are allowed to do so via their First Amendment Right, do I not have the right to my freedom of expression to fire a legally registered firearm over their heads to scare them off ?
Most probably not. And it would be stupid, just like it is to burn the Koran.
It's a fine line between what we allow and what we are actually free to express, but I can tell you this, if those dweebs show up at my son's funeral, I won't be firing overhead.
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I hear ya man...but when you are in someone elses country to free them from anarachy and when you have soilders in there you have to sometimes walk on eggshels and do what needs to be done to get their respect...
We are at WAR...our soilders are only asking us to be there with them and portray the same image they are portraying over there. This to me is about supporting your troops..nothing more and nothing less.
Do i care if 50 ppl burn a quran? not really it's not goin to affect me...
Do i have an opnion on it? sure they probably shouldn't do it even if our troops werent' there, because it's nothing more than ignorance and hate.
But CAN THEY DO IT? OF COURSE! it's their right..
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No, there are other laws about the use of firearms that preempt you doing that  ... but while I would respect their right to do what they do, I would hate and resent the living hell out of everything they do and every breath of air they take in my presence. And yes, I would probably cross the line of what is legal if it happened in my presence.
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yah i would def go to jail for a very long time after i exercise my rights to bear arms 
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you have to sometimes walk on eggshels and do what needs to be done to get their respect...
I can't even tell you how much is wrong with that statement.
Have you ever gotten the respect of someone by walking on eggshells around them? I haven't. I've never know it to happen with anyone, anywhere.
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Well in the context that we are talking about walking on egg shells isn't a good term to use i guess...i just mean they should at all times show that they respect what ISLAM and their religion stands for while in THEIR country...i'm not sure if that can be calld as walking on egg shells..
The war is more of a mental war at this point over there that doesn't fit the regular military style. Iraq is a only a ground where the terrorists come to fight US...it is not the enemy. and that is all i meant by that statement
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I hear ya man...but when you are in someone elses country to free them from anarachy and when you have soilders in there you have to sometimes walk on eggshels and do what needs to be done to get their respect...
We are not in Afghanistan to free them from anarchy. We are there to kill people that want to kill us. The key is, who kills who first? That's the first place our troops are at a disadvantage.
And keep in mind, this discussion is not about Iraq. It's about afghanistan.
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We are at WAR...our soilders are only asking us to be there with them and portray the same image they are portraying over there. This to me is about supporting your troops..nothing more and nothing less.
Our soldiers are not asking us to be with there with them. What our soldiers want is the authority to do what they have been trained to do. Ask them - any of them. I have. And no, mac, in case you show up here - I don't have a kid serving there. I have friends, neighbors, and relatives that are there or were. And that's all they want.
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.how can you imagine 50 people buning a quran is going to go over with the media? esp in the middle east?
The same affect of Islamic news sources showing a destroyed building saying we bomb baby factories and making up other crap. Sure they will use this, but they do fine without it.
I wonder how many reported Quaran burnings were shown to justify 911, the USS Cole attack and all the other countless attacks. Oh wait, there weren't any. Until Israel doesn't exist, we get out of the middle East, convert to an Islamic state and God, Allah, Buddah or Zeus knows what else, 50 yahoos burning a book, doesn't amount to squat. those seeking our destruction will use it as excuse #1,204,456 until the next fad excuse comes along.
I remember when "Foreign Policy" was the in thing to blame, now its 50 book burners. The Foreign Policy angle was much more legit.
"My signature line goes here."
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In this particular case, this church is making Americans look like a bunch of idiots. This is the equivalent of Ahmadinejad spewing rhetoric about wiping Israel off the map, or proclaiming that The Holocaust was a myth, or at least greatly embellished by the Jews.
Not even close. Ahmadenijad is the leader of a nation.. elected or not or however he came to power, he DOES on some level speak for his nation, just like Obama would speak for ours. If Obama was burning a holy book I would have a much different opinion than I have when it's an idiot in Florida with a 50 person congregation...
Basically everything you say about it being stupid are pretty much right on.... but this guy has already won.... he doesn't have to burn a single book and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't because he has achieved his objective.
This is a goofball "pastor" who was kicked out his church in Germany, who has a church here not big enough to sustain itself, he is hawking a book, oddly enough about Islam the Devil.. and this nobody, this idiot, this moron has created such a stir by doing NOTHING... only threatening to burn a pile of paper that... that.. well lets look at the people on record making comments and pleas to this nobody moron jackass...
The President of the United States
The First Lady of the United States
The Secretary of State of the United States
The Combat Commander in Afghanistan
The Pope
Too many world leaders to name
Every governor, congressman, senator in this country
The Attorney General of the United States
Angelina Jolie
Seriously, I can't think of another thing one single insignificant nobody can do to cause a global spectacle this size by simply threatening to burn a book... It's really rather freakin' ridiculous when you think about it.
yebat' Putin
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just like Obama would speak for ours.
Not without a teleprompter he wouldn't. Have you ever heard the "great speaker" speak without a teleprompter?
The guy sucks it up as a speaker.
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Here's what I think... and what I'd like to see:
If it's "The Firey 50's" constitutional right to set fire to literature in an open space, it should also be the right of 50 or more others to ensure the safety of all at that gathering.... by bringing buckets of water and garden hoses. Maybe even some fire-suppresant foam. (Water's more fun, tho.)
Public safety will be maintained... and yet another group will have their rights to excercise "freedom of speech or expression," yo... at the same gathering.
Wow... America gets a "twofer."
Yeah...let's all get wet and turn this bad boy into a bigass freekin' block par-taaaay!!!! Mojitos, anyone?
Then... let the media roll with it as they see fit.
(I'd loooooove to see the spin they'd try to run with something like this...)
(...taking my tongue out of my cheek, now....)
All joking aside, let's consider these points (some of which have been made already in this particular thread):
There are countless Americans who think this is stupid.
There are countless Americans who think this is wrong... not illegal- but wrong-headed, from a moralistic, pragmatic or philosophical point of view.
There are countless Americans who think this is a perversion of God's Word and the teachings of Jesus.
There are countless Americans who couldn't care less about this issue, but would drive halfway across the country for a good blowout party.
Shouldn't it be their right to attend this event for their own reasons? I mean, they're Americans too, aren't they? Don't they have the right to express themselves on 9/11 as they see fit?
In other words... If most of America believes that these people don't speak for all Americans, what's keeping the rest of America from showing up, and letting the world see what America truly speaks for? Nothing, as far as I can see.
These idiots are going to do what they are going to do, whether it's wise, immoral, offensive or just plain stupid... because it's their right to do so. BUT... and this is crucial to keep in mind- other Americans aren't exactly powerless in this scenario. They don't have to simply sit back in impotence, and watch this thing go down. They should be able to attend the rally and express themselves, too... before the flames get out of hand.
If it's good enough for the Muslims in NYC, and goood enough for the Firey Florida Fifty, it should be good enough for ALL water-loving Americans to go there and "freely express themselves" in accordance to the First Amendment, too.
Douse the flames of foolishness. Make a stand for your beliefs. Thump a bible or two. See attractrive young women in wet t-shirts. Serve Mojitos.
Everybody wins.
Now THAT'S Clemdawg's America.
That's all I'm sayin'.
(Hey- who's willing to charter the bus from Ohio?)
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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j/c Anyone else notice that the King speaks of his opinion on the book burning...but is unwilling to speak of his opinion on the building of a mosque near ground zero?  Interesting...again.
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I just still find it funny that when our own government funded artwork and we come to find out that what they considered art was a painting of the Virgin Mary smothered in elephant crap and Christians expressed some outrage the general concensus of the population was... GET OVER IT!! It's a paiting, it's art, grow up...
But now we are so wrapped up in Islamaphobia that this guy wants to burn a book and everybody from Angelina Jolie to the Pope has come out to beg and plead with the guy not to do it because its insensitive, it's stupid, it's intolerant, it's wrong... I'm pretty much at the point where I don't give a flying crap if some Muslims are offended.. I really do not care.
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On the surface, that may seem like a big deal, but look closer at it:
The book burning is universally reprehensible. It's a no-brainer to denounce it.
The "mosque" is much, much muddier and much more divisive. The politician is going to avoid making comments that might cost him a large number of votes.
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I'm pretty much at the point where I don't give a flying crap if some Muslims are offended.. I really do not care.
You never should have, just as nobody should have ever worried about whether or not Christians are offended.
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On the surface, that may seem like a big deal, but look closer at it:
The book burning is universally reprehensible. It's a no-brainer to denounce it.
The "mosque" is much, much muddier and much more divisive. The politician is going to avoid making comments that might cost him a large number of votes.
I agree with what you posted...however, the King casts his opinion on damn near everything from cops who "acted stupidly" (when we later learned that they DID NOT) through the reprehensible act of book burning.
Yet...the King's "reaching out" to the Muslim community cannot include a soundbite regarding the King's opinion as to the location of the mosque? If he won't say it's a bad idea, then that confirms that he supports the decision on legal AND moral grounds.
It's chicken-poop on his part to throw out a good 'ole "No Comment" when that has NOT been his stance on anything else under the sun.
Interestingly enough...I knew he would speak out on the book burning.
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IIRC, the Virgin Mary thing was a statue made entirely of elephant dung. Another was various objects in jars of urine. What offended me about that was not the content, but that I was forced to help pay for it, along with all other taxpayers.
So book burning is ALWAYS bad? Suppose a group of old jewish folks with numbers tattooed on their forearms decided to burn a copy of Mein Kampf?
Muslim communities, or nations, are doing little or nothing to protest the outrages committed by the terrorists in their ranks. When they chop off the head of a woman supplying wheelchairs to disabled folks, they are out by the thousands, literally dancing in the streets. Same thing when they thought that thousands of jews might have been killed by one of Saddam's missiles with a nerve gas warhead.
If a community near me allowed rabid dogs to roam freely, I would demand that they either control the vermin within their community, take it somewhere else, or get out of the way while I burned the whole thing to the ground.
Much has been said about those with no risk in the game. Anyone remember when these animals had blueprints for 5 different American schools? I want you to imagine walking down the halls on one of those blueprints, looking at how many AC ducts could spew nerve gas, wondering how big a bomb could be hidden in a locker, how many different ways your son or daughter could be killed or maimed.
For me, this is not an imaginary scenario. I have had children attending one of those schools. So when someone tells me about how we should not offend the Muslims, my response is "Offend them? Kill them. Kill them all. Kill every last one of them, do not leave two bricks standing, cut off their heads, blow them to bits, wipe them from the face of the earth."
Or should I be polite and attempt to negotiate with people who want to kill my son? Exactly what bargaining points should I use?
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There's rapists and murders in our society that belong to either a ethnic group or a economic class, should we kill all the people of that group to rid ourselves of the ones that are rapists and murders?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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To be devils advocate to your devils advocate.....I guess it would depend on whether that economic or ethinic group was regularly celebrating the actions of those murderers and rapists......
to be clear...I do not think we need to wipe the face of the earth of Muslims and the Islamic Faith.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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If virtually the entire membership of that group or class is either actively aiding these people, or condoning their actions, then yes.
They have had the opportunity to clean up their own house, and have failed miserably.
If there is a rat and roach infested building next door, and the owners and/or inhabitants will not clean up their own mess, the larger community will have it bulldozed to the ground.
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Your claiming to slaughter ALL Muslims. That's nearly 2 billions people worldwide, many of whom are your neighbors here in America. Or do you mean to slaughter all Muslims in the Middle East? Or just extremist Muslims? or just people who where turbans? People who look middle eastern? People with funny accents? People who work at 7-11?
Please clarify.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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However many it takes so that those who want to murder my children, and hundreds of others, in their schools conclude that it is a very bad idea.
Enough so that those who know where these people are decide to tell the authorities. Enough so that those who give them money, supply them food, provide them weapons, conclude that the price is too high.
How many will you want to kill after you have seen your children's blood, brain matter, and body parts splattered all over the walls of their school?
Is it difficult to seperate the guilty from the innocent? Absolutely, most likely impossible. My point is, that there comes a time when "fairness" is no longer the most important concern.
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Interesting theory. A group of radicals proposes a threat to you and your family, so your solution is to kill them until they get the message? Yet it was this exact message that got you fired up wanting to kill them? Do you see a cycle starting here?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Hate breeds hate.
If more people like Nelson show up, we're on the fast track to the end of the world.
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I wonder how all of the flag burning people feel about the book burning.. quite a few have accepted that flag burning is an acceptable method of free speech.. I've heard all of the same arguments, it's just a symbol, the greatness is not the fabric but what it stands for, etc, etc..
Is the Koran not just a symbol? Ones faith is between himself and God, the book is just a symbol, a means to that end, if one burns, buy another one... if one burns, pray without it..
The more I read, the more I write, the more I watch... the more I come to realize that my biggest frustration in all of this is not with the dorky "pastor" and his little goofy congregation.. my biggest frustration is not with Islam.. my biggest frustration is with the pandering, eggshell walking, politically correct, Islamaphobic population of the world that feels like the single worst thing you can do in todays society is offend a freakin' Muslim...
yebat' Putin
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Man, this thread has taken a rather dark turn.
...and to think- all I wanted to do was have a party and see some wet t-shirts...
Maybe it would be acceptable to some if we roasted some weenies over the fire... make sure there's at least 60% pork in them. (Korans in Weber grills instead of Kingsford?)
Guess I'll stay home- where it's a little safer. At least there, I can laugh at how stupid this all is without offending someone who takes it seriously. Guess there's no room for ANY levity in this room.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I'm all for a "Wet T-Shirts for Warriors" function to support the troops...
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I believe that the "preacher" who is doing this is doing to to gain publicity for his rather small church. Guess what ....? It worked.
I do not agree with burning any of the Holy Books. I find it to be completely unnecessary and hateful.
That being said, I also find it ironic that some people, in response to a small group of people saying that they will burn copies of the Koran, immediately begin burning the American flag.
Too bad they don't teach irony is places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, and others.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So when someone tells me about how we should not offend the Muslims, my response is "Offend them? Kill them. Kill them all. Kill every last one of them, do not leave two bricks standing, cut off their heads, blow them to bits, wipe them from the face of the earth."
Change the word Muslims to Christians and Bin Laden himself would want you on the payroll .
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964 |
Dead people don't murder children.
FF, I believe you live in or near Lee county. Do you have children in the school system?
For those who don't like hearing my emotional response to the potential murder of a thousand or so children, propose some other effective response.
Why don't most people steal, or commit pre-meditated murder? Because they are afraid of the consequences, it's really that simple. How many foreigners are providing wheelchairs for the disabled in Iraq? Why not, because they are afraid of the consequences.
How many of you know the names of any one of the 5 schools in danger? How many of you have kids in those schools? Some of you were claiming that those who had no risk in the game should STFU. That would be those who CHOSE to undergo that risk AS AN ADULT. These vermin are threatening, deliberately planning, to KILL OUR CHILDREN. If you don't want to do something about that, then shut up and get out of the way.
The reason pain exists is to be a message to STOP DOING THAT. Pain is the quickest, most effective teaching tool there is. It works, it ALWAYS works, the only trick is to make sure that it is understood that the pain stops when the undesirable action stops.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089 |
Where is this bizarre school angle coming from? I was travelling for a bit so did I miss some attempted terror attack at a school or something? Quote:
The reason pain exists is to be a message to STOP DOING THAT. Pain is the quickest, most effective teaching tool there is.
You'd make a fantastic terrorist.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,431
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,431 |
Quote:
Why don't most people steal, or commit pre-meditated murder? Because they are afraid of the consequences, it's really that simple.
To me that speaks strongly as to what kind of a man you really are . I don't steal because it is against what I believe to be right and I don't kill for the same reasons so the consequences don't really come into play ...hey , that may be just my crazy way of thinking .
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