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Why should they consider building elsewhere?
Because "We don't like you"?
Because "If you practice a certain religion, you are not welcome HERE"?
Because strip joints on "sacred and hallowed ground" are somehow more palitable than a Mosque?
Because "We don't want your kind here"?
There is little more offensive that one human being can say to another.
The bought the property.
The got the licenses and zoning they needed to build there.
Why would they go back to square one to satisfy the prejudicial feelings of certain people?
And you know what?
Let them build the damn thing there. Who gives a flying kite?
Let them build it there. I don't give a crap.
But why do people get all torn up about burning korans?
I've seen Bibles burned - but I sure didn't see Christians say "well, now we'll have to kill people over this"
I've seen our flag burned - the flag of the United States of America - and I've seen people dancing, all proud about it.
I've seen the bodies of Americans drug through streets, and hung on bridges - in the name of Allah.
Let them build the damn mosque. I don't give a crap.
But I damn well give a crap about giving US equal opportunity to protest.
They don't have the money to build it.
Let them go ahead. I'll donate $10. They are putting it there to make a point.
What the hell is their point?
YOU tell ME what their point is. Because they can? Big damn deal. What is their POINT in putting it there?
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Legend
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One thing I do wonder about, is where is Presidential leadership on this issue?
I look back to the days following 9/11.
President Bush sat down with leaders of all faiths, and brought people together. He got people to look past faith and nationality to see people as people.
That is one of the most impressive things I have seen out of a President "in the moment".
He was able to see (and get a hurt and enraged people to see) that people are people, and that there are good in every group of people.
I am astonished that President Obama has pretty much given up on this issue. Perhaps it's the fact that he has done some things that were offensive to other religions (like skipping the Prayer Breakfast, and others) that he feels like he can't show favoritism.
Nonetheless, he has dropped the ball here. Sometimes we need someone to bring our idealism back to the fore, because we want to be our ideals as a people. I honestly believe that. We want to be our best.
I don't think that this is showing us at our best. Not even close.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Let me ask you this ....
If we have open access to information, and freedom to do as we please (within the law) does that make us more or less willing to allow others to do and say as they please.
In many countries where they show people burning flags and such, the people have really limited access to information. They are fed propoganda. They get much of their information through a tainted lens.
Issues like this allow the lens to become even more tainted.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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O has gone out of his way to back the mosque in NY. Which is fine - they have a right.
He has also gone out of his way to tell the pastor in Florida to not burn the koran. Even though, with the proper permits from the city, he could. (and little old podunk Arch doesn't need permits to burn korans OR Bibles)
Sorry dude - I'm not afraid of muslims, OR Islam. I AM damn tired of hearing how "burning korans" will lead to death, or hearing whatever the Imam in NY"s name is saying " it's too late - if we don't build it here, people will die"
Why is islam so important that others cannot protest it - not the religion, the location?
There are many, many cases of christian churches having to jump through hoops, or even being told "not here"...........and nary a word about them. But this mosque (glad to hear people are finally calling it what it is).............not building it somehow threatens Americans with death and destruction?
And that - death and destruction, is what people are supporting?
When they have offers to make 25% on their money? To not build where 75% of the people don't want them?
I don't care about strip joints. Strip joints go through the same process - if an area doesn't want them, they don't get built.
But Islam is different?
I don't think so.
They have a right. But there are times that excersising your right is foolhardy. Would you not agree?
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Dawg Talker
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But this mosque (glad to hear people are finally calling it what it is
It is not a Mosque. It is a Community Center. I titled my response as such because I am not talking about the Community Center being built (whose opponents like to make people picture a grand Mosque complete with minarrets). I am talking about the ACTUAL mosque on the site of the WTC that was housed on the 17th floor of the Second World Trade Center Tower.
That must really upset the opponents of the Community Center. To have what they are labeling it to have actually existed at the World Trade Center. What next? Are you all going to claim that all the Muslims that died there as terrorists?
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Let me ask you this ....
If we have open access to information, and freedom to do as we please (within the law) does that make us more or less willing to allow others to do and say as they please.
I guess I don't know what you are asking. This country has rules - which are not followed because of illegal immigration - which some want me to be okay with - we have rules about what you can and cannot do - we have rules about what you can build, and where - we also have socially acceptable rules, which often times get struck down in court, and often times rightly so.
We also have common sense. Or, at least, some of us do. And when you go against common sense - it doesn't make you racist, it doesn't make you anti islam, it doesn't make you anti muslim - and it doesn't make you anti right to burn korans............it makes you smart.
the idiot in florida smartened up.
In ny, we have people fighting the country for their right to build a mosque.
Let them build the damn thing.
Let them.
They don't have the money to do it. And I'll bet before push comes to shove, they'll end up asking for public money. That, or they'll get money from overseas to build it.
Fine. They wanna build it there, the have the land, the permits - build it.
In many countries where they show people burning flags and such, the people have really limited access to information. They are fed propoganda. They get much of their information through a tainted lens.
Issues like this allow the lens to become even more tainted.
I do not know.
I do not know how that even applies to the discussion.
If people in country X are only fed propaganda - of course they will believe it. We don't live in country X - we live here. What was your point?
If people in country X feel it's okay to stone people, does that make it okay to stone them here? No.
If people in country Y feel it's okay to raid villages, and take slaves in order to sell - does that make it okay to do that here? No.
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I have no problem with people protesting.
What I do have is a problem with people being told:
"We don't want you here because you are a Muslim. Move away and it will be OK"
I also would not like:
"We don't want you here because you are a Jew. Move away and it will be OK"
"We don't want you here because you are a Christian. Move away and it will be OK"
I do not like descrimination based on religion. I do not like people being told that they cannot practice their religion because "we don't want you here".
Face it ... the way these protests have gone, the next thing will be a ban of all Muslims at the ground zero site after it is rebuilt so we don't "offend" someone.
As far as the loony toon in Florida, I don't like seeing anyone's sacred books destroyed. I wouldn't like seeing a Koran burned any more than I would want to see a Bible or Torah destroyed in a burning message of hatred. It makes him no better than those who would burn Bibles in other countries.
You know ... in many ways the US is supposed to be the "grown up" of the world. Actions like this one make us look more like bullies than anything else.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
But this mosque (glad to hear people are finally calling it what it is
It is not a Mosque. It is a Community Center. I titled my response as such because I am not talking about the Community Center being built (whose opponents like to make people picture a grand Mosque complete with minarrets). I am talking about the ACTUAL mosque on the site of the WTC that was housed on the 17th floor of the Second World Trade Center Tower.
That must really upset the opponents of the Community Center. To have what they are labeling it to have actually existed at the World Trade Center. What next? Are you all going to claim that all the Muslims that died there as terrorists?
Ah, got it. So the 17th floor of one of the buildings that got blown up was a mosque - but the 13 story building they want to convert to a mosque isn't a mosque - but a community center.........or was that cultural center?
You've called it both, just as you've said the wannabe mosque isn't a mosque, but then you say it is a mosque - or was that the 17th floor mosque - which wasn't a mosque..............dude, you're confusing.
So, there was a mosque - before it got blown up - and now they want a cultural center that may or may not be a mosque........but the one that got blown up was the 17th floor..but the one they want to build, which isn't a mosque, is 13 floors.
Got it.
And what you don't get is first of all, how dumb sound, and secondly - no one is saying they don't have a RIGHT to build it - but rather "is it good sense to build it there".
Go on, call me racist, anti muslim, anti islam.
But when you get done pulling stuff out of your ass, can you reply intelligently to me? Or will it be more made up crap?
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
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But this mosque (glad to hear people are finally calling it what it is
It is not a Mosque. It is a Community Center. I titled my response as such because I am not talking about the Community Center being built (whose opponents like to make people picture a grand Mosque complete with minarrets). I am talking about the ACTUAL mosque on the site of the WTC that was housed on the 17th floor of the Second World Trade Center Tower.
That must really upset the opponents of the Community Center. To have what they are labeling it to have actually existed at the World Trade Center. What next? Are you all going to claim that all the Muslims that died there as terrorists?
Ah, got it. So the 17th floor of one of the buildings that got blown up was a mosque - but the 13 story building they want to convert to a mosque isn't a mosque - but a community center.........or was that cultural center?
You've called it both, just as you've said the wannabe mosque isn't a mosque, but then you say it is a mosque - or was that the 17th floor mosque - which wasn't a mosque..............dude, you're confusing.
So, there was a mosque - before it got blown up - and now they want a cultural center that may or may not be a mosque........but the one that got blown up was the 17th floor..but the one they want to build, which isn't a mosque, is 13 floors.
Got it.
And what you don't get is first of all, how dumb sound, and secondly - no one is saying they don't have a RIGHT to build it - but rather "is it good sense to build it there".
Go on, call me racist, anti muslim, anti islam.
But when you get done pulling stuff out of your ass, can you reply intelligently to me? Or will it be more made up crap?
What was on the seventh floor was a prayer space. That prayer space was simply that, a prayer space. A place devoted to prayer. Devoted to prayer in the name of Islam. So, a Mosque.
What is being built two blocks away is a Cultural Center that includes a prayer space for whomever wishes to use it. Muslim? Use it. Not Muslim? Use it. Hardly a Mosque by any means. But you go ahead and call a prayer space open to the public and whomever wishes to use it a Mosque. Go to your local Greek Orthodox Mosque. Your Catholic Mosque. Your Jewish Mosque. Oh yea, you don't call those Mosques right? Open to other religions ... hmmm.
The simple fact of the matter is that those opposed to it just don't want to see "that kind" there. "Hear no evil, see no evil". Or better yet, in their case "Hear no Muslim, see no Muslim".
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It is not a Mosque.
There you go again. It is a mosque. The developers themselves call it a mosque on their own website.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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It is not a Mosque.
There you go again. It is a mosque. The developers themselves call it a mosque on their own website.
So, you are saying that it is a Mosque open only to Muslims. After all, Christians and Jews cannot pray in a Mosque. Why? Because it is not their temple.
So, how is it a prayer space for Muslims, Jews, and Christians
To answer:
Because it is not a Mosque
It is a Community Center which includes prayer spaces.
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Nah - according to your rules - I go to a cultural center. And I did that Sunday - like I do most Sundays. Not church - I went to a cultural/community center.
Why was it a mosque in the world trade center again? And why isn't what they want to build not called a mosque?
Oh, your double speak will be precious.
Again - I don't give a flying leap if they build it. I even said I'd donate to it.
You need to get off your high horse and start bucking up to what you have said - and most of it is made up crap that you, in your head, have come up with.
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Who cares?
Really, no one but charlie.
He's the one that insists the new thing won't be a mosque - but he also insists the old thing WAS a mosque.
Charlie is like ..........well.........a woman. He changes his mind, and definitions to suit what he's saying at the time, and damn what he said before.
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I have kind of said the same thing.. they do have the right to build it and I'm not all that opposed to building it but if I was going to build something that was supposed to serve as a bridge to unite communities, I'd probably be a little more sensitive to all of the people that didn't want me there... they have made zero concessions.. they haven't even appeared willing to entertain the notion of doing anything different even when 75% of the people they are trying to bridge to, don't want them there... It would give me a feeling that they were a bit more sincere about using it to bridge relations if they .. oh I don't know, did anything other than dig in their heels...
They are within their legal rights, why should they make concessions and to who, the 75% that don't want them there? Since when does mob rule in this country?
The dumbest thing about this whole debate is that the vast majority of New Yorkers are fine with it being built there. Just like the vast majority of New Yorkers thought the Patriot Act was stupid and the Iraq war was BS. They know what makes them safer and what is a threat. And it isn't islam or a mosque. It's stupidity, whether in the form of religious fanatics in the middle east or fear mongering propoganda from the midwest.
If the people who live there, work there, and were there when it all happened, don't care, why do all of you? Trust me, there is sooooooooo much more to be offended by at the site than this. It's laughable.
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Nah - according to your rules - I go to a cultural center. And I did that Sunday - like I do most Sundays. Not church - I went to a cultural/community center.
Did you read from the Torah and the Quran there?
Soemthing tells me you didn't! Something tells me that you read from the "New Testament".
How can it be a mosque if it is a Cultural Center with prayer spaces for JEWS, CHRISTIANS, and MUSLIMS.
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Why was it a mosque in the world trade center again? And why isn't what they want to build not called a mosque?
Because that was specific to the Muslim faith. The "prayer spaces" in the Cultural Center are not specific to Islam. They include Christian and Jewish as well. Hmmmm....
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You need to get off your high horse and start bucking up to what you have said - and most of it is made up crap that you, in your head, have come up with.
You need to understand what you read.
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So, even if it is a mosque. Why is it such a big deal? It's just another building in a large cluster of buildings.
Why is building a mosque next to ground zero such a big deal? How is it Unwise? Why is it Unwise?
I really don't see a problem with it myself. Nor do I think it unwise. It's just some people who found a good piece of real estate (Which, mind you, is really hard to acquire) And given that the other mosque is fairly close. Their commute doesn't change much to the new place.
Last edited by The Collector; 09/14/10 12:14 AM.
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Who cares?
Apparently I do. Forgive me for not living up to your standards of message board posting.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Actually, much of this argument sounds like a bunch of old hens ...... clucking back and forth ... the same crap spewed back and forth ..... arguing the minutiae.
"It's a Mosque!"
"No it's a cultural center!"
"No it has a prayer area, so it's a Mosque!"
"No, it has a multi cultural prayer area, so it's not a Mosque!"
"No, it has a prayer area for Muslims so it's a Mosque!"
"No, it allows other religions in so it's not a Mosque!"
"No, they will have the prayer room on the (whatever) floor so it's a Mosque!"
*Sigh*
I am done with this crap, because it's going nowhere.
It's become a clash of personalities instead of a debate over principle and ideals.
It has become about villifying an entire class of people rather than calling out those who work for evil, and embracing those who might work for peace.
It has become about excluding people because of who they are rather than what they do.
Maybe we can make people happy and make New York City .... the hallowed ground that it is ..... even the areas rife with prostitution and drug dealing ... maybe we can make all of the entire city a "No Muslim" zone. After all ..... if people don't want "them" there, they should just leave rather than fight for acceptance.
I thought this country was about making 1 out of many. (e pluribus unum) I guess that it should be "Just for those people of certain religions we want here ......" instead .........
That said ..... I'm done with this thread. Knock each others brains out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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Charlie is like ..........well.........a woman.
As a woman, I am offended by this statement.
Or am I?  
![[Linked Image from i75.photobucket.com]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i302/lrhinkle/d5eaf0b9-e429-4211-b53f-b843bfcf6aa9_zps2ac17420.jpg) #gmstrong
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jc.
Difference between Pastor in Florida and Community Center in NYC.
Both had the right to follow through on their plans. The Pastor's plan was out of hate and anger. So far as we know the Community Center is to provide something to the community. Unless you can prove this theory that they are building it as a slap in the face then, that argument holds no weight.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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People really need to do some research on the mosque's Imam and who he associates with...also...where is the money coming from?
This whole thing stinks.
The building of this mosque so close to ground zero is being done to prove a point...AND...
WE the taxpayers are funding the fundraising activities for building it through an Imam with ties to people who hate America.
The King and his court either supports it and its "point"...or he has no idea who this Imam really is...you decide which is worse.
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They are within their legal rights, why should they make concessions and to who, the 75% that don't want them there? Since when does mob rule in this country?
I love you and ytown, I really do and I respect your posts but you guys just aren't listening.. you keep coming back with the same stuff over and over.. 
It's not about mob rule.. if they were building a Burger King and nobody wanted it because it was in a progressively liberal, mostly vegetarian neighborhood then I would say, "Build it at your own peril, it won't make any money." but they aren't building a Burger King, they are building a community center.. the people building it have stated their purpose (at least publicly) to build a bridge between faiths and groups of people.. well if a large percentage of people don't want it where you want to put it then moving it is NOT SUCCUMBING TO MOB RULE.. it is helping achieve the objective of the facility which is to build a bridge.. Building it in a location where so many people don't want it just because you legally can is not building a bridge, it's shoving it down other peoples throats, which they have every right to do.
If you want to build a bridge, build a bridge, if you want to shove it down peoples throats then do that but don't do it and tell me you are building a bridge. 
yebat' Putin
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The man and his men who will lead this mosque are NOT about building any bridges.
Otherwise, I agree with your point. (And I think YTown and Tulsa do as well...not trying to speak for them here.)
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Quote:
People really need to do some research on the mosque's Imam and who he associates with...also...where is the money coming from?
This whole thing stinks.
The building of this mosque so close to ground zero is being done to prove a point...AND...
WE the taxpayers are funding the fundraising activities for building it through an Imam with ties to people who hate America.
The King and his court either supports it and its "point"...or he has no idea who this Imam really is...you decide which is worse.
Well, in that case, what better way to protect the new site than to have a mosque there that the terrorists certainly won't want to bomb? Brilliant!
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They are within their legal rights, why should they make concessions and to who, the 75% that don't want them there? Since when does mob rule in this country?
I love you and ytown, I really do and I respect your posts but you guys just aren't listening.. you keep coming back with the same stuff over and over..
It's not about mob rule.. if they were building a Burger King and nobody wanted it because it was in a progressively liberal, mostly vegetarian neighborhood then I would say, "Build it at your own peril, it won't make any money." but they aren't building a Burger King, they are building a community center.. the people building it have stated their purpose (at least publicly) to build a bridge between faiths and groups of people.. well if a large percentage of people don't want it where you want to put it then moving it is NOT SUCCUMBING TO MOB RULE.. it is helping achieve the objective of the facility which is to build a bridge.. Building it in a location where so many people don't want it just because you legally can is not building a bridge, it's shoving it down other peoples throats, which they have every right to do.
If you want to build a bridge, build a bridge, if you want to shove it down peoples throats then do that but don't do it and tell me you are building a bridge.
We love you too DC!
My issue with all this is that simple little document, the Bill of Rights. Article 1:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
It's not just for Christians anymore.
Most, if not all conservative minded people cherish this document and the Constitution. It establishes who we are as a free people. We're quick to reference it when we feel that government is becoming too big for it's britches, i.e., obamacare.
I'm not of the opinion that it can be trampled on when the freedom it guarantees is not necessarily within the interest of the majority. I personally would rather see the mosque/community center/burger king move to another location but this document keeps me grounded, knowing they have the right to put it wherever they want it and I accept that and defend it because the document means more to me than this silly building, wherever they want to put it.
We all know what they are saying about bridges is pure BS and simple spin to make it go down better, you know, a spoon full of sugar. I wasn't aware that was really in question, because if it is, it's a really silly question. It's the general populace's reaction to the building because it's in "bad taste" to build it so near ground zero, that gives the appearance of hypocrisy when we protest so vehemently against the rights guaranteed by the very document we hold so dear.
The effect will be far reaching on the world stage and what was a non-issue now has a life all it's own and those of the muslim faith will be pouring money into it from around the globe to see it built, just because it's an in-your-face to the Christians and Jews. This was played very badly by the 75% and they eliminated any real opportunity for this site to do anything but be built where it's proposed.
Like I said in another post, go protest the fact there is no memorial for fallen of 9/11, and let this burger king issue die an emotionless death.
#GMSTRONG
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
And can you show me how Congress is breaking this ammendment in pertaining to the mosque?
Can you tell me why you are not screaming over the thousands upon thousands of zoning issues against churches every day in this country?
Can you tell me who is barring these people from being a muslim?
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Legend
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Legend
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Can you tell me why you are not screaming over the thousands upon thousands of zoning issues against churches every day in this country?
Thousands upon Thousands of zoning issues? Really? Show me some.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Legend
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My issue with all this is that simple little document, the Bill of Rights. Article 1:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
It's not just for Christians anymore.
It never was just for Christians.. in fact it was always more for NON-Christians than it was for Christians... and I have no desire to trample on it or even smudge it... I am not asking Congress or even the govenment of NY to do anything at all to prevent them from building this mosque. I'm also not going to do anything to oppose those who oppose the mosque and are exercising their right to speech therein.
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We all know what they are saying about bridges is pure BS and simple spin to make it go down better, you know, a spoon full of sugar.
I'm not prepared to state what we "all know".. I've seen, just among the people of this thread.. opinions ranging from it's a mosque to its not a mosque. It's to build a bridge, its a command center from which to launch future attacks. So I'm reluctant to say that we all know anything...
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This was played very badly by the 75% and they eliminated any real opportunity for this site to do anything but be built where it's proposed.
I agree. However, and perhaps this is where we will disagree, it was played very badly by the Imam as well who, from day 1, has dug his heels in and made no efforts to compromise...
yebat' Putin
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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I have already provided links.....there is a neat little tool called Google...It isn't very hard to find....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Legend
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Legend
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I did look, but what I find is not people blocking churches by using zoning laws, but that zoning laws that were put in place to protect the citizens of the community, but were inadequately written when it came to dealing with churches.
They aren't problems, but more of stumbling blocks that eventually get worked out.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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I agree. However, and perhaps this is where we will disagree, it was played very badly by the Imam as well who, from day 1, has dug his heels in and made no efforts to compromise...
Compromise?
Compromise with Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer?
To ask for that is the same as saying that the Jews should compromise with the Nazis. Absurd analogy? No, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer have the same mindset. One visit to their sites shows how they feel about Muslims. They are of the belief that Muslims should not exist - period.
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Legend
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Legend
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I agree. However, and perhaps this is where we will disagree, it was played very badly by the Imam as well who, from day 1, has dug his heels in and made no efforts to compromise...
I think you're correct, this must be where we disagree. I don't see any need for someone who has gone through all the proper legal steps to build his/her whatever, needs to compromise anything for anyone. To say he dug in his heels is to imply compromise is expected and that's nonsense.
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Legend
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Agreed... What compromise are the protesters making? That they allow within the state of New York, just not where it is? Seems like they don't have anything to lose and everything to gain, so they have no collateral to compromise with.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I figured I'd post this here and see what you guys think. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010...nj_transit.htmlThe protester who burned pages from the Koran outside a planned mosque near Ground Zero has been fired from NJTransit, sources and authorities said Tuesday. Derek Fenton's 11-year career at the agency came to an abrupt halt Monday after photographs of him ripping pages from the Muslim holy book and setting them ablaze appeared in newspapers. Fenton, 39, of Bloomingdale, N.J., burned the book during a protest on the ninth anniversary of Sept. 11 outside Park51, the controversial mosque slated to be built near Ground Zero. He was apparently inspired by Pastor Terry Jones, the Florida clergyman who threatened to burn the Koran that day but later changed his mind. NJ Transit said Fenton was fired but wouldn't give specifics. "Mr. Fenton's public actions violated New Jersey Transit's code of ethics," an agency statement said. "NJ Transit concluded that Mr. Fenton violated his trust as a state employee and therefore [he] was dismissed." Fenton was ushered from the protests by police on Saturday and questioned, but he was released without charges. "He said, 'This is America,' and he wanted to stand up for it, in a Tea Party kind of way," a police source said. Another police source said Fenton described himself as a "loyal American" exercising his "right to protest." But the source said Fenton looked like he was having second thoughts as he was released. "He looked nervous, like he was starting to think it wasn't such a good idea," the police source said. Described by neighbors as a likable family guy with two children, Fenton was an assistant train-consist coordinator, sources said - a job that entails ensuring there are enough train cars positioned to be put into service. He previously worked as an NJ Transit conductor. Several neighbors in Fenton's town stood up for his right to express himself with flames. "Good for him for burning the Koran," neighbor Jacqui Marquez, 40, said. "Everybody's entitled to their opinion ... by firing him, they're sending a message that there's no freedom of speech. They're completely wrong for doing this." "He's a family man," neighbor Randy McConnell, 43, said. "He loves his kids and he loves trains. I don't agree with what he did, but he shouldn't lose his job over it. That's his right." If Fenton was fired for burning the Koran while off-duty, his First Amendment rights probably were violated, Chris Dunn of the New York Civil Liberties Union said. "The Supreme Court has recognized a constitutional right to burn the flag. As reprehensible as it may be, burning the Koran would be protected as well." Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010...l#ixzz0zZ97aQXp---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think NJ Transit is really going to pay for this one. For one thing, looking at the Daily News Poll, the major majority of voters disagree with their decision. I just think it's really hypocritical that people will get so worked up about someone burning a Koran when people all over the world burn the American flag in protest. While it's not my form of protest, and I think it's trashy, I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to do it. If people want to build a huge mosque right near ground zero (which is very insensitive, I live near NYC, trust me, most people don't like it at all), then someone should be allowed to burn a koran in front of it if they want. These are rights given to us in our constitution, rights that men great people have died for.............. The only case I can see NJ Transit making is that it endangers their rail system because a bunch of nut jobs might be provoked to blow it up. Should be interesting though. I guess that's fair, but by doing this they allow the radicals to win by folding to their fear tactics As for the mosque debate, I think it's really insensitive and stupid of this "Imam" to build a mosque there. I don't understand his intentions and believe that if anything it will only build walls. He's starting the conflict and I think he feels no sympathy for 9-11 victims. But then again, part of me says, it's their right to build it there from our principles. It's just a bad situation. I just wish our president would exercise some eminent domain and say that there will be no mosque near ground zero until a church is opened in Mecca. Fair is fair, but our President would never do that. I really wish the Muslim faith had a head leader or something (similar to the pope) who could explain the religion's direction and may be try to smooth some issues over. It would do this country a lot of good
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Legend
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Legend
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J/C
I think they should build a gay bar right next to the community center.
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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It's NYC....it's probably already there......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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Legend
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If it was against the Transits code of ethics fine, but don't they have a warning policy?
They will eat crow on this one.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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Compromise?
Compromise with Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer?
Only in the mind of the most obscene moron are those the only two people who have objections to this mosque... I know you think the 75% of the population that have any opposition to this mosque are all blindly following these folks and I know that nothing I say is going to change your mind because you don't actually listen to what other people so I'll just stop...
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
I think you're correct, this must be where we disagree. I don't see any need for someone who has gone through all the proper legal steps to build his/her whatever, needs to compromise anything for anyone. To say he dug in his heels is to imply compromise is expected and that's nonsense.
I will take the same approach the Imam took when he said that to move it now would incite violence.. which is insane because everything you do that involves Islam these days is met with that excuse.. if we don't like it, then we will get violent.. I can't wait until they issue the statement that if we include Jesus in our Christmas exhibits that it will incite violence.. won't surprise me one bit when half of this country decides that its probably just best then to cancel Christmas for fear of offending anybody.. but I digress... since the sentiment of the "bridge builder" was that to move it will incite violence then I will offer this.. to build it will more than likely elicit a response, graffitti, vandalism, protests, maybe worse.. I'm not condoning anything illegal but if he continues with his plan, then he can expect it...
yebat' Putin
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