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1) Keep the current coaching staff for the most part.
2) Get another FA quarterback to keep a seat warm a bit longer. I don't have a problem with Wallace at this point but I fear Delhomme is past his expiration date.
3) Beg, borrow, draft, or steal a wide receiver.
4) Use the draft to shore up the defensive front 7. We need a pass rush.
5) Work to eliminate breakdowns in technique and discipline. Turnovers and penalties are the Devil for us this year so far.
If you're only giving one year then that's about all I can realistically deliver.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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I was being serious. I had asked for 1st hand accounts of him on another thread and came up empty. always like hearing about the local kids who are making a draft buzz.
#gmstrong
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in that case ... anytime I can help I will 
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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They went to a bit more read and react and that isnt his strength but he can learn it. Thing is what he does do well u just cant teach. He has that Demarcus Ware type of athleticism and burst. I think he will be a 12 sack in Romeo's scheme but put him in Ryans and damn he could be a monster. Benard Strongside and Moch weakside. Thats some blitz potential.
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1. Fire Ryan. What's that you say? Daboll is the problem, not Ryan? Ryan is in love with the blitz and it's killing us. Balt's winning touchdown? An 8 man blitz. Basically invites the other team to score a TD, which is why you never see it, particularly on third down when all you need is an incompletion and not a sack or interception. Going for the sack or interception on third down is looking to pad stats because you know a pass is coming and is an unnecessary gamble. Ryan's Blitz call on that TD was tied for the worst call of the game (the other was punting on 4th and 2, discussed in another thread).
2. Let Daboll continue to improve. Bringing in a new OC wreaks havoc on the offense because it takes so long to learn new systems (defense is much easier). The offense is doing okay. Daboll is so-so, but improving. This is his second year and there are three new QBs. So far he's doing better than last year, but still needs to improve. I dont' want to overreact until he shows us he isn't going to get better. Let Holmgren and what's-his-toes West Coast guy (Gil somebody?) help him out.
3. Focus hard on encouraging our limited QBs to not take chances and let the run game work. We have a good run game. Take the sack or throw it away. Bad picks are really hurting us, and our QBs are mediocre but very capable of making good decisions and accurate short throws. We are are really set up for a west coast offense with our players.
4. give the WRs and QBs a lot of extra time to work on timing and routes. Our WRs are not the greatest, but the bigger problem is they are not on the same page with our QBs.
5. Resign/extend Roth, Vickers, Stuckey, and maybe resign Harrison and Elam. Roth will be the toughest.
6. Draft Dline all day long with an RT thrown in if a good one is available.
7. the penalties and fumbles are always a focus of Mangini and his history with us and the Jets tells me this is an abberation for some reason. I expect it to be corrected without doing anything additionally.
Two biggest things holding us back, imho, are the Defense unable to pressure the passer with only four rushers and the QBs and WRs being so off. Part of it is personnel, part of it is practice/coaching.
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Quote:
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you guys are going full steam ahead into a big pile of dodo
Its doo doo!
We have professional standards on this board.
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I do not understand the passion for this Coaching staff ?????
Why switch???
The guy is good.....Holmgren said so when he kept him.
It isn't about coaching....it's about the team man.
Mangini knows what he is doing and isn't above his level like Romeo was.
Sometimes you have to quit looking for the magic dust and just let it play out.
Baseball is my game, and have coached quite a bit....kids who have played professionally...coaches don't win many games, they only lose games more often than not....and Mangini isn't losing games..
Let's see what happens when we get a few more players.
I think it's pretty telling that you don't think Mangini is over his head. You thought Romeo was a boob since 2006 and were right on.
I agree with you on Coach, by the way.
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I'm going straight general here.
We need a legitimate athletes. What is the number one thing teams plan for when they play Cleveland? Who do they circle and say "We've got to shut this guy down". We've got great pieces that will help do all the dirty work but there is no one there that can straight make the other team, on both of the sides of the ball, watch out for. Talent wise the Browns across the board are not that far off from the rest of the league, except there really aren't any legitimate playmakers.
I hope that MoMass and Ward become some. But more investment needs to be made.
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-Eric Wright (this year before trade deadline) for New England's 4th round choice
If we traded Eric Wright I'd be disappointed. If we traded Eric Wright for a 4th round pick I'd be upset.
He's a free agent after the year and I don't think the Browns will give him what he thinks he's worth...
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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This is Wright's 4th year. So if the current CBA holds up the with the same rules for free agents as before he would be a restricted free agent. Making it a lot easier to keep him.
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I'm going straight general here.
We need legitimate athletes. What is the number one thing teams plan for when they play Cleveland? Who do they circle and say "We've got to shut this guy down". We've got great pieces that will help do all the dirty work but there is no one there that can straight make the other team, on both of the sides of the ball, watch out for. Talent wise the Browns across the board are not that far off from the rest of the league, except there really aren't any legitimate playmakers.
I hope that MoMass and Ward become some. But more investment needs to be made.
I respectfully want to counter here, only in terms of the definition of an "athlete." After 3 million high schoolers get whittled down to 50,000 D-I college players, and then screened into 188 NFL draft choices, I would say the NFL is already getting the best athletes, and for the most part the best football players.
The Browns, as an organization are not doing their evaluating, coaching and scheming correctly. Not only are we not getting enough of a share of the right talented guys, we don't even use the raw material correctly. I trust Holmgren though, I think we're on the right track. We're a better 0-3 team than we were last year at this time, and that is progress.
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All Pro
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-Shawn Rogers to San Diego for a 5th round pick
-Eric Wright (this year before trade deadline) for New England's conditional 7th round choice
Fixed it for you to make it realistic.
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I respectfully want to counter here, only in terms of the definition of an "athlete." After 3 million high schoolers get whittled down to 50,000 D-I college players, and then screened into 188 NFL draft choices, I would say the NFL is already getting the best athletes, and for the most part the best football players.
The Browns, as an organization are not doing their evaluating, coaching and scheming correctly. Not only are we not getting enough of a share of the right talented guys,
You are correct but then so is the post you responded to.. perhaps "athletes" is not the best word.. we are getting NFL caliber players but in those NFL caliber players there are an elite few that change games on a regular basis all by themselves.. great teams have a few of them, good teams have a couple, we don't really have any.. we have some quality football players but nobody that really strikes fear in the hearts of the opposition.. so call them "game changes" or "difference makers" or "superstars" but we need a few of them..
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
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I respectfully want to counter here, only in terms of the definition of an "athlete." After 3 million high schoolers get whittled down to 50,000 D-I college players, and then screened into 188 NFL draft choices, I would say the NFL is already getting the best athletes, and for the most part the best football players.
The Browns, as an organization are not doing their evaluating, coaching and scheming correctly. Not only are we not getting enough of a share of the right talented guys,
You are correct but then so is the post you responded to.. perhaps "athletes" is not the best word.. we are getting NFL caliber players but in those NFL caliber players there are an elite few that change games on a regular basis all by themselves.. great teams have a few of them, good teams have a couple, we don't really have any.. we have some quality football players but nobody that really strikes fear in the hearts of the opposition.. so call them "game changes" or "difference makers" or "superstars" but we need a few of them..
Good stuff. We tried a couple times on the playmaker issue, got really unlucky when one decided to become a motorcycle stunt artist (when he didn't know how to ride), and another spent more time trimming his pretty little beard than practicing catching the ball.
Two first round centers.
Passing on a number of franchise quarterbacks.
What is really scary? The other day I was looking at the Rams and they have better players than us at a number of important positions.
Bottom line, the NFL is now a passing league. Since Otto Graham, since I was old enough to play sandlot, the Browns have had one franchise quarterback.
One!
So...
Lets draft another first round center and I'll listen to the annointed tell me how it was a good move. Lets pass on trading up for a franchise quarterback because we can get a couple good defensive backs instead (after all "we can't give up our future" ie.. the fact you can find good defensive backs in free agency doesn't matter, maybe somebody is just going to give us a franchise quarterback in free agency someday -- yea, it could happen).
Drafting is a problem.
The fact that the best teams always had the common trait of being able to really "coach players up" and we haven't been good for awhile is a problem.
I'm not allowed to talk about an absentee owner who isn't a football guy, isn't a Cleveland guy, and doesn't really hold his employees acountable, so I won't mention it. It ticks the annointed off. After all, "he leaves people alone and spends money." Yippee kai yeh! Policy, Clark, Butch, Romeo, Mangini, his management strategies were spot on in bringing out the best in them. Yea, right. Allowing people to do their job is one thing, neglecting things and then throwing money at the problem when it gets out of hand is another. Since 99 the Browns have been a direct reflection of Lerner ownership. A reflection.
1. Sell the team to a local guy who loves football, loves the Browns, and is there.
2. Bring in a completely revamped coaching staff. Holmgren needs to take some control over the offense, instilling a real WCO, until things straighten out.
3. Make bringing in a franchise quarterback the main priority regardless of the cost. We don't have a choice. (ps. I don't believe there is one in this draft, so there's a big problem).
That would be a good start from my perspective.
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You might not count Sipe as a franchise QB -- and he was not drafted as one, for sure -- but he played like one.
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Ahhhhhhh , Brian Sipe ; Loved that guy ... Talk about a guy with no " Classic " skill sets .. He just won ! .. Browns version of a Fran Tarkenton !  .. :
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I am really glad you stood up for Sipe and have his back.
I was torn on whether to consider him a "franchise" QB.
In some ways I agree. Those were great years.
This is one argument I could easily back down and give in to.
He was very accurate and a winner.
But, isn't it amazing that you only have Sipe and Kosar over all these decades? What is up? Ryan, Nelsen, Phipps, one cast off after another, Couch, Holcomb, Frye, one cast off after another, Quinn. Jeez! What a list.
No wonder I feel the way I do.
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My problem with putting Sipe on the list is that it shows how thin the list really is. I loved watching Sipe in the late 70s but when looking objectively, he had 2 or 3 years where he played close to what would be considered "franchise" level.. and that isn't good enough in my book.. when people think of "franchise" qbs, you don't think of the guys that had 2 or 3 really good years..
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
My problem with putting Sipe on the list is that it shows how thin the list really is. I loved watching Sipe in the late 70s but when looking objectively, he had 2 or 3 years where he played close to what would be considered "franchise" level.. and that isn't good enough in my book.. when people think of "franchise" qbs, you don't think of the guys that had 2 or 3 really good years..
If you're a Browns fan you do. We have to. 
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Sipe wasn't a classic "Franchise" QB any more than Delhomme was/is. They both have had a modicum of success with some rough beginnings and one really good season, followed by more mediocity.
That means that - at best - we've had one Franchise QB in Kosar since the days of Otto Graham.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Eric Zeier wasn't a franchise QB?
#gmstrong
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im kinda confused at how Jake Delhomme has "only had 1 good year"
From 03-04 season until the 08 season he was one of the best quarterbacks in the league.
His first season as a starter in 03-04 he threw 19 tds and 16 ints and had a QB rating over 80. The next year he threw 29 and 15...and threw 24 and 16 the next year, and 17 and 11 the following year through 13 games...the next year when he got hurt he had a qb rating of 111 and had 8 tds and 1 int in 3 games til he got hurt...
since then yes hes been iffy...but even in 08 when he didnt have the best year of his career he threw 15 and 12 because they relied on the running game so much and then he was asked to do too much in the playoffs and imploded much like Eric Wright did this past week. Then he had a horrible year last year.
but...out of 7 years as a starter he was very good...and at WORST, above average for 5 of them and 2 of them he got hurt. His only downside is he averages 1 pick per game...but for his entire career not including last year hes thrown more tds than picks and always thrown over 1 td per game.
Delhomme had 3 years that he was stellar and 2 other years that he was above average and the rest of the time hes been hurt or bad. I dont buy the 1 good year for him. Delhomme has always been good til last year...which i still think will turn out to be an abberation
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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[quote
but...out of 7 years as a starter he was very good...and at WORST, above average for 5 of them and 2 of them he got hurt. His only downside is he averages 1 pick per game...but for his entire career not including last year hes thrown more tds than picks and always thrown over 1 td per game.
While I know I am taking only this line out of context from the rest of what you had to say about Delhomme ...
Another player who comes to mind that meets these stats (42 games, 49 TDs 48 INTs) ..... Derek Anderson
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Fine, let me rephrase that... a few good years and only one Great year. Better? 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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prpl thats fair...but thats better than we've had here, and why i think he deserves the benefit of the doubt until he shows otherwise.
and comparing Delhomme with Anderson isnt fair to Delhomme. again, Delhomme sustained his success for multiple years and improve with successive seasons before injuries started to weigh him down.
Anderson was flash in the pan success and hasnt duplicated it
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
My problem with putting Sipe on the list is that it shows how thin the list really is. I loved watching Sipe in the late 70s but when looking objectively, he had 2 or 3 years where he played close to what would be considered "franchise" level.. and that isn't good enough in my book.. when people think of "franchise" qbs, you don't think of the guys that had 2 or 3 really good years..
I got some bad news here,...Kosar was good a lot longer than Sipe, but really only had 3 "great" years himself -- the ones in each where we ultimately lost AFC Title Games to Denver.
So if anyone wants to get technical, OldSkool is on to something,....we haven't had ANY franchise QB since Otto Graham,....depending on one's own definition. I particularly liked Frank Ryan and Billy Nelsen, too.
Still stay Kosar was, and Sipe was not drafted to be,....but anyhow, it makes the point, and begs the question -- is this what we are "missing " for The Big Fix ?
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That's fine... I wasn't saying that it wasn't better than what we've had. In fact, I wasn't commenting on our current QB situation at all (directly). I was saying that he isn't a Franchise type, and by comparison Sipe wasn't either.
Anderson was complete garbage that was made to look good by the likes of Winslow and Jureviscious.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Eric Zeier wasn't a franchise QB?
Did he ever have a Topps football card ? (He did, AAMOF)
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especially in light of the "Indy rules" on PI, it is the biggest thing we are missing on fixing this team.
then again, i'd say about 10 teams could say the same thing today (and ultimately 20 teams will say the same thing after who they think is their current franchise QB doesn't pan out longterm)
#gmstrong
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agreed...i guess what i wanted to say about delhomme is that i think he played at "franchise qb" level for about 3-4 years
and to the rest of the talk about it...i think that a franchise quarterback, or what i would consider it, is that someone played at "franchise qb" level for multiple years. The franchise qb level, is in my opinion getting you into the playoffs, OR playing at a level that can win teams games by your play...and if you can sustain it for multiple years...i think minimum 3 years, you have a franchise quarterback.
i put Kosar there...id put Sipe there because while he had only 1 GREAT year he had a couple/few good years surrounding them
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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but anyhow, it makes the point, and begs the question -- is this what we are "missing " for The Big Fix ?
It's a big part of it. We went after the franchise QB way too soon when we came back in '99.. that had no chance of working out... but right now.. this team needs some a franchise QB..
yebat' Putin
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Agreed to you as well .. but on a side note I wonder what some people would rather have ... sustained mediocrity or a flash in the pan every few years?
yeah '05, '06, '08 and '09 sure did suck ... but '07 was a LOT of fun (especially becuase Im too young to really remember anything before 99 ....)
and if we are one or two plays differnt that year ... we were competing in the playoffs with a legit team
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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I prefer Option C - finally build it right and have sustained good play.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Yeah,...ask Colt fans how they feel about Manning,.... They are "there" every year, and have been since his arrival,...(pretty much)
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Sipe went off to the USFL, that hurt his career with the Browns.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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j/c
I am not crazy about this staff we have but I can see this team is playing better than the last few years.
I think we need playmakers on defense, especially up front. Our front 7 is not all that great as far as I'm concerned.
There is no way this team can go far without finding a franchise qb either but he doesn't have anyone to throw to.
With that in mind, I go in to the offseason and find either through the draft or free agency;
1.) a #1 receiver
2.) a stud ILB
3.) an OLB that can cover TE and blitz the QB or a DLineman
The following year I would get the quarterback.
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I would hang onto Mangini and Ryan and give them one final year to prove themselves. Not really sure of who might be out there for an OC so I'll refrain from suggesting someone. When talking about the draft and free agency, let's look at the major area of needs first: WR, DL, pass rusher, QB, ILB? Still a need but to a lesser extent: RT FA targets: WR - Sidney Rice would be my #1 target. Still young and has a ton of upside. Doesn't bring along the baggage of Vincent Jackson. Would be a huge boost to the WRs as it seems we currently have a collection of 2's, 3's, and 4's. Fall back at WR: Mike Sims-Walker. Good young receiver with size and speed who has yet to reach his potential. Would still be a very nice add at WR and a big upgrade over anyone we currently have LB - David Harris would be amazing to come in and anchor the defense. DL is a more pressing need, but we just need play makers. Every defense has at least one guy that routinely makes plays, and we desperately need that. D'Qwell is just too big of a question mark. He's bound to tear a pec again. Draft: I figure we'll probably finish with 4-6 wins, which will put us around the #4-7 range based on last years finishes. Absolute ideal draft: First Round: QB Andrew Luck. Never a bad time to get a franchise QB and what many regard as the best QB prospect in years. If he there, there's no way we can pass him up. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to putting AJ Green in this slot if we were unable to get one of the two guys I mentioned in free agency. We need a play maker at WR and he's the best in the draft. I say if Luck is there, we have to take him. Second round: Akeem Ayers OLB UCLA. This is probably a stretch with how well he's played to start the season. This guy has the potential to be great at OLB and is the type of player you can put in different spots all over the field. Good in coverage and also fast coming off the edge. Would be worth trading up for as long as it wasn't too high. Third Round: Adrian Taylor DE/DT Oklahoma. Would play DE in the 3-4 and I would expect to be a pretty damn good one. Tough against the run . Probably more realistic but still awesome draft: First Round: Robert Quinn DE/OLB from UNC. I know the guy hasn't played this year yet (infractions) but he can be an elite pass rusher in the NFL, something we desperately need. Second Round: Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College. 6'7" 295. Biggest con is he needs to add weight but could still lock down the RT spot for a while. Third Round: Adrian Taylor DE/DT Oklahoma. Would play DE in the 3-4 and I would expect to be a pretty damn good one. Tough against the run . The first draft along with free agency would give a huge boost to this team. Hardesty back and fully healthy  next year is essentially like adding another 2nd round pick and would also be a huge boost to the offense.
Last edited by GreenDawg95; 10/02/10 02:05 AM.
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Posts: 16,197 |
Number one is:
Continuity in the organization. That begins with talent evaluation. President/GM/Head Coach have to be on the same page.
The core of the teams must come from within. The players you draft and develop must make up the majority of the roster. FA's are compliments.
Number two is:
The team has to have a solution at quarterback. The position is just too important to play musical chairs with.
The Browns can not put all there eggs in the Colt McCoy basket. He may develop but the risk of failure is too high. Finding a solution means a franchise QB. Delhomme and Wallace are not a solution. Wallace is a good backup. Delhomme is a transition guy.
Number three:
Core players at key positions. Offense - QB, LT, WR, RB. Defense - in a 3/4 must have solid NT, an impact pass rusher, and a top corner.
Getting specific about what players to draft or FA to sign is just way to complicated because of all the factors involved in the process.
One thing I will mention is that come draft day April 2011 if the Browns are in a position to draft a QB they believe can lead a franchise ( I like Luck) then they should pull the trigger. If Colt develops into "the man" the other player is an asset that can be used as such.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 87
Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 87 |
Quote:
Number three:
Core players at key positions. Offense - QB, LT, WR, RB. Defense - in a 3/4 must have solid NT, an impact pass rusher, and a top corner.
I believe you can remove LT and RB from your list. Obviously Thomas is going to lock down the left side for a long time. Yes, Hardesty is a big question mark, but I don't think we'll do a thing at RB with Hillis and Harrison until we see what we have in Hardesty.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,197
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,197 |
I am talking in general terms of organizational philosophy.
Current core players:
Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Ward, Haden, Lauvao, Rubin, (Massoquoi, Robiskie, maybe), Cribbs, McCoy (maybe), Hillis, Hardesty (maybe), Bernard, Vickers, Roth.
Also, I like Wallace as a backup.
We also have some role players that are ok.
The obvious need is QB. But again in general terms we need some true impact players on both sides of the ball.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How would YOU fix this team?
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