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I agree with you. Manginus and BD just don't seem to make sound football decisions to me. That fact that they couldn't come up with a more creative offense using both Hillis and Harrison is unbelievable to me. Harrison got the shaft in C-town and I personally hope he makes them look like idiots.
Since we are all just speculating on the trade.
How do we know it wasn't Camp Harrison who pushed for a trade?
After all he most likely was gone at the end of the season anyways.
I just hope this new guy can be at least serviceable = 3.5 ypc and that he can block when needed.
I think this is an area that the Coach's would have liked to have seen Harrison give a better effort in.
Bell being a bigger RB should provide better protection from blitzes, but also is not going to out run everyone either.
This Sunday we may not have the best situation for success, but Davis could make us quickly forget about JH.
At least I am hopeful that he can and will.
This way if Hardesty comes back or not
[I think he will and anyone who knows otherwise is his doctor] we won't be so thin @ RB next year.
Yeap, I always have an eye on next year, but at this point 5 wins looks good for this year.
Is it enough to keep the current Coaching staff intact for next year?
I guess will all have to wait and see what the answer to that question is.
Statistically speaking Wins and Losses trump all other statistics.
What if we are competitive in the face of lack of talent at key positions yet still lose?
Should we as Browns fans be so bold as to accept a loss in this way as fail your to progress as a team?
We knew we had needs going into this season and a pretty brutal schedule.
We didn't know we would be starting our 3rd round rookie draft pick with more then 10 games still left to play either.
Our team is not yet 'there' and won't be until we bring in and develop better talent around some of the players we already have now. I don't care who the Coach is.
Belichick was not a popular Coach here in Cleveland either, but given the talent a proper support from the ownership and organization he was able to prove all of his critics here wrong.
Who is to say [offer proof] Mangini will or will not prove his critics wrong too?
Personally I can not.
As a franchise we need continuity does it start now? Or is it still something we have to start over with?
I'm sick and tired of the carousel of Coach's and systems and only constant being a lack of talent.
Let's get some talent get and keep the proper plan and hold the dam coarse.
That's what winning organizations do.
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McCoy has everything you want in a QB:
1. He's Smart
2. has a NFL Arm
3. Is mobile
4. Has Good pocket awareness
5. Hes a winner
Really? Everything you want? Are you serious? He looked like a UDFA rookie out there in preseason....he didn't look like he has 2) an NFL arm and his 4) pocket AWR was really bad....don't know if that qualifies for 1) being smart
Didn't like him as a prospect and was happy we didnt take him in the Top 2 rounds, thought our top guys saw the same things and punted him as a franchise QB prospect...of course then MH had to pull his BS act and take the Hobbit (yeah, that's my nickname for him)...his upside is C.Frye, really and I don't see him becoming much more....if he manages to develop into a below AVG starter, good #2 backup (like Seneca) I'd be stoked....anything above that is dreaming watching his preseason AND CFB tape
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I too am worried about Colt's arm. I'm trying not to write the guy off after four preseason games, and I certainly hope he turns out to be a stud, but he looked like Brady Quinn 2.0 out there. Wouldn't throw downfield, and when he did he would float it.
We'll see how he does on Sunday.
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All Pro
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Points: 30
DEFENSE:
Points: 13
Putting those alone for emphasis for the few posters that continue to point to the defense as being a major problem.
But when your D is playing the 30th ranked scoring offense, your O doesn't have to put up as many points.
You are more likely to run the ball to chew clock and kick more field goals.
Those stats play off one another...if our offense was event middle of the road, we'd have a much better gauge as to the real status of our D.
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I too am worried about Colt's arm. I'm trying not to write the guy off after four preseason games, and I certainly hope he turns out to be a stud, but he looked like Brady Quinn 2.0 out there. Wouldn't throw downfield, and when he did he would float it.
We'll see how he does on Sunday.
He was taking snaps from Billy Yates and throwing to Taurus Jackson and Syndric Steptoe. Did you expect him to set the world on fire?
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he's gonna be what he's gonna be.. and at this moment in time, with what little we've seen of him against NFL competition, we can't know squat for sure.
So everything any of us think about the kid is circumstantial..
I'll wait and see..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I choose to believe. I think we can have some success. Turnovers, sacks, and avoiding three and out are all good targets. If Beanie gets rattled, we can crack their nut. But our linebackers need to get off blocks and fly. We can't have the glacier pass rush. I want to see us get after it as hard as we can. Fans demand that.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I too am worried about Colt's arm. I'm trying not to write the guy off after four preseason games, and I certainly hope he turns out to be a stud, but he looked like Brady Quinn 2.0 out there. Wouldn't throw down field, and when he did he would float it.
We'll see how he does on Sunday.
He was taking snaps from Billy Yates and throwing to Taurus Jackson and Syndric Steptoe. Did you expect him to set the world on fire?
You forgot the grocery clerks 
The Coach has made mention of the fact that they have a different set of play sheet for all of the QB's.
In the final pre-season game Colt was 100% in accuracy rate and I have to believe it has something to do with his play sheet that they had for him for that game.
The difference from JD to SW showed me that they pretty much do have a different play sheet for each individual QB.
To me that shows some flexibility as a coaching staff.
In the past it seemed like no matter who we had in at QB, they were expected to run the same plays.
Colt will be given an opportunity to run the plays he is suited to.
I can't argue that point.
If he can execute the plan [and it is a good plan] a long with his team mates he has a chance to be successful, because other then the pre-season game the steelers really have little else in the way of preparation for McCoy.
We might also see a development at RB with Davis, who I think if he is to carve out a role in our offense. It will be as a 3rd down back.
Davis I thought was instrumental in moving the chains with Colt at QB in the above mentioned game. Mostly with YAC.
Bernie used to always welcome a run blitz packages because he new he could burn them if he new where to go with the ball.
If Colt can take a page from Kosars book I think he should take that one.
No QB can function without the ability to audible to a hot read.
McCoy will have to make adjustments on the fly if he is to have any success in spreading them out and giving us some running lanes.
The trick is to know when they are bluffing or not 
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One thing to keep in mind is that if we'd put Colt in the game last week, Delhomme and Wallace would not be permitted to re-enter.
Neither of them could anyway. They were both hurt beyond being able to play.
And neither of them will be able to enter the game against Pittsburgh either.
Allowing Colt to play the final quarter vs. Atlanta would not have been the end of the world. If it would have been, what will be the condition of the world when he's expected to start against the Steelers?
I think by the fourth quarter it was pretty much a lock that neither Jake or Wallace would play this week. It was a perfect opportunity to get Colt into a game vs. an opponent who wasn't the Steelers. I understand Mangini thinking Jake had a chance to win that game since he was moving the ball a bit.
But Jake looked like a car rolling down the road with two of it's wheels held on by one lug nut between them. The further it went on those wobbly wheels the more apparent it was that the wheels would come off. It was an accident waiting to happen and in the end it did. I don't blame Jake one bit.
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...the Hobbit (yeah, that's my nickname for him)...his upside is C.Frye...
Both of those statements are a bit harsh. Well, ok, he does look a little bit like a hobbit but have you seen his parents? Can't blame the kid.
But the "upside of Frye" sounds more like a demeaning remark without actually seeing any valid comparison. If you could put their college careers side by side and watch as they progressed you'd see that they were light years apart from day 1 to draft day.
I'm not going to give a lot of examples because you and everybody else knows the differences between their careers. But Colt played for a big program while Frye played for a small school less than 20 miles North of me.
Just some accomplishments by Colt McCoy in the NCAA record book...
NCAA - Highest Single Season completion percentage: 76.7%.
NCAA - Most wins by a starting quarterback in NCAA Division I history with 45.
NCAA - Tied for second place for most passing touchdowns by a freshman with 29 alongside Nevada's David Neill in 1998
NCAA Colt McCoy is the only quarterback in college football history to have at least ten wins per season during all four seasons.
(wiki)
I do realize that that was then and this is now. And I realize that college accomplishments don't necessarily translate into NFL success. But those are some badass accomplishments to bring into the NFL as a starting point. Frye never came close to Colts skill-set or accomplishments.
So from now on you need to call him Dan.
#gmstrong
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...the Hobbit (yeah, that's my nickname for him)...his upside is C.Frye...
Both of those statements are a bit harsh. Well, ok, he does look a little bit like a hobbit but have you seen his parents? Can't blame the kid.
But the "upside of Frye" sounds more like a demeaning remark without actually seeing any valid comparison. If you could put their college careers side by side and watch as they progressed you'd see that they were light years apart from day 1 to draft day.
I'm not going to give a lot of examples because you and everybody else knows the differences between their careers. But Colt played for a big program while Frye played for a small school less than 20 miles North of me.
Just some accomplishments by Colt McCoy in the NCAA record book...
NCAA - Highest Single Season completion percentage: 76.7%.
NCAA - Most wins by a starting quarterback in NCAA Division I history with 45.
NCAA - Tied for second place for most passing touchdowns by a freshman with 29 alongside Nevada's David Neill in 1998
NCAA Colt McCoy is the only quarterback in college football history to have at least ten wins per season during all four seasons.
(wiki)
I do realize that that was then and this is now. And I realize that college accomplishments don't necessarily translate into NFL success. But those are some badass accomplishments to bring into the NFL as a starting point. Frye never came close to Colts skill-set or accomplishments.
So from now on you need to call him Dan.
within the next 24 hours, Jango will tell you how little McCoys accomplishments in College really mean... 
As for him looking like a hobbit,, I don't give a damn if the kid looks like sophie tucker.. if he wins, he'll do just fine 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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within the next 24 hours, Jango will tell you how little McCoys accomplishments in College really mean...
And he'll be right to a degree. How many outstanding college quarterbacks have we seen fail miserably in the NFL? Rick Mier and Ryan Leaf instantly come to mind. There have been many others.
Heck, for awhile we even had a two-time Heisman trophy candidate on our roster. His college win/loss record was 38-2 and he won a National Championship for Miami. Yes, I'm talking about our own Ken Dorsey, drafted in the 7th round and who is now playing in Canada. Seventh round pick. Dan would have never lasted to the 7th round. Dorsey's big accomplishments didn't mean a lot to GM's looking for a QB. Dan and Charlie did better in that regard but who knows where each of them would have been selected had not the Browns taken them both?
My point to django was the difference between Dan and Charlie Frye.
Though I do see similarities I hadn't thought about when I made that post. They were both considered possible 1st round picks by some. Both set a lot of team records though Frye at a smaller school. Many scouts had each going in the second round and they were both selected in the 3rd, (Charlie 67th-Dan 85th). They're both smallish with less than rocket arms. They're probably equally athletic.
But here's where they differ... I don't believe Holmgren would ever had taken Frye. Other than being a gamer and a tough SOB Frye lacked a lot of what Holmgren looks for. Mainly, when observing these two, accuracy and a quick release through good decision making stand out as big differences. However, that was college. Slower game, more evident passing lanes and a large window to the WR. Considering all that, Dan did much better than Frye and he caught the eye of quarterback guru Mike Holmgren.
Still, same upside as Frye? C'mon man! Holmgren picked him. That's gotta count for something.
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I too am worried about Colt's arm. I'm trying not to write the guy off after four preseason games, and I certainly hope he turns out to be a stud, but he looked like Brady Quinn 2.0 out there. Wouldn't throw downfield, and when he did he would float it.
We'll see how he does on Sunday.
He was taking snaps from Billy Yates and throwing to Taurus Jackson and Syndric Steptoe. Did you expect him to set the world on fire?
No, I didn't, as you'll notice I never said so. I would point out, though that they sword cuts both ways. Given the guys he was playing against, I don't think a few downfield completions are an outrageous expectation.
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We will know more after tomorrow, but the Browns have no chance if the game plan from Chicago is repeated. I went back an looked at the game.
It was a repeat of Quinn's check down Charlie performance. No pass further than 5 yards downfield. Some nice runs by the backs helped with the yardage.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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And he'll be right to a degree. How many outstanding college quarterbacks have we seen fail miserably in the NFL? Rick Mier and Ryan Leaf instantly come to mind. There have been many others.
No question. The thing is, those awards that McCoy won say that he a hardworking, student of the game. that he has physical skills and at least a degree of courage.. But more than anything, they say that he has a drive to succeed.. intangables..
I bet if you asked Jerry Rice what made Joe Montana the best, he'd probably tell you the intangables.
I'm not comparing McCoy to Montana so PLEASE don't go there. But clearly, montana didn't have the rocket launcher for an arm. but he was accurate. And smart, and he worked hard at being the best. Did I mention leadership skills?
McCoy seems to have many of those same attributes.
having said that, I have no idea if they will translate to the Pro game.. maybe we'll see that tomorrow. maybe what we see will only muddy the water further.. Dunno...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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The only question I would wonder about ... is for the drives that Colt was in on .. for the snaps that colt was in on .. how many of those guys made a final roster versus how many of the defensive players made a final roster ... ?
Because even though they may have been fighting for a roster spot or play time .. if colt had 10 other guys on O and 2 made the roster .. its a lot harder playing against a team where 8 or 9 of the guys potentially made their respective teams final roster and they get play time (or have had starting/playing NFL experience but are on the downside of their career or had a higher draft pick unseat them...?) ... and not to mention not all teams carry 4 qbs in the preseason .. so he was having snaps taken away by Brett the New York Jet Ratliff
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I just think the reason Colt was throwing check downs at first was just to get him in the games and have some successes.
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I"m not sure what to make of the Preseason as a whole for Colt McCoy.
he seemed timid at first (I guess that's normal) but got better as the preseason went on. That's progress right? I hope it is.
If nothing else, this should be somewhat entertaining today.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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We'll get to see today whether he's captain checkdown version II or not.
#GMSTRONG
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You know ..... I don't even really care if the QB checks down a lot ......
What drove me crazy about Frye and Quinn was an unerring capability for getting 5 yards on 3rd and 6 ...... or 6 yards on 3rd and 7 ....... or 10 yards on 3rd and 11. The timing was never there for either one of them .... and neither one could hit a timing or crossing route that had a chance of getting a first down with any consistency even if his life depended on it. (except for Quinn when he faced a team ranked last in pass defense, as he did two years in a row with Denver and Detroit)
A QB throwing short but wide across the field can work. Hell, that's the basis of the WCO. However, a QB who consistenty puts his receivers in positions where they have no shot at making yardage after the catch isn't playing a WCO style game. That's what used to drive me crazy about some posters who used to go on and on about how these guys could be great WCO QBs because they were "accurate short". What was more accurate is that they were accurate when taking exactly what the defense wanted them to take, and not a yard more.
So, if McCoy checks down, but manages to get the ball out over the 1st down marker ... I'll be fine with that. If he checks down but gives his receivers a chance at making a play, I'll be OK with that too. If he consistently leads his receivers into the teeth of the defense, short of the yard to make .... then I'll be concerned.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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A QB throwing short but wide across the field can work. Hell, that's the basis of the WCO.
You're absolutely right. I should have clarified that I meant check-downs as opposed to simply throwing short. I totally agree with you that a QB can be extremely effective throwing short, but that's typically when the plays are designed that way and he's hitting his primary targets (i.e. the WRs).
The problem with Quinn was that he would check down to his safety-valve RB more often than not. If McCoy can avoid that, that will be a huge improvement over Quinn.
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With all the blitzes Colt will see today.. I'm sure he will be dumping A LOT to the RB..
I think Stuckey will have a huge day though. He does well coming out the slot and is usually a quick option. Hopefully Colt has enough in his arm to beat any zone coverage that Pitt throws at him.
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Oh of course. I'm not expecting anything from him today more than surviving out there.
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With all the blitzes Colt will see today.. I'm sure he will be dumping A LOT to the RB..
I think Stuckey will have a huge day though. He does well coming out the slot and is usually a quick option. Hopefully Colt has enough in his arm to beat any zone coverage that Pitt throws at him.
If that's what their defense wants to give us, then I am fine with that.
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I'd like to retract my previous statements.
McCoy has thrown a number of wonderfully accurate deep outs today. Very impressed.
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Ditto.
He's shown more arm strength than I thought he had. He's made strong throws, and has balanced that with his passes being catchable as well.
Too bad 2 of our top receivers are out as the result of cheap hits by the Steelers.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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While true, that also is just an error in preparation.
And that falls on the HC.
Error in preparation? how so.
Sorry D-shot, hadn't opened this thread in a while.
What I meant by that is that Jake was clearly still hurt. Heck, he limped out to the huddle before he had taken a snap. You don't go into the game with only 1 "active" healthy QB and designate a healthy one as the emergency QB. Mangini should have eaten the roster spot and made all three guys active to avoid that situation.
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While true, that also is just an error in preparation.
And that falls on the HC.
Error in preparation? how so.
Sorry D-shot, hadn't opened this thread in a while.
What I meant by that is that Jake was clearly still hurt. Heck, he limped out to the huddle before he had taken a snap. You don't go into the game with only 1 "active" healthy QB and designate a healthy one as the emergency QB. Mangini should have eaten the roster spot and made all three guys active to avoid that situation.
Oh,, ok,, I wasn't aware that Colt was designated as the emergency QB.
But your asking the guy to have a picture perfect Crystal Ball.. Not sure that's really all that fair of a critique...
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I don't really think I was. You have to have a backup QB and he didn't. If Delhomme was limping onto the field he was probably limping when Mangini set the roster. That's not having a crystal ball, that's just having your eyes open.
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