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.....only it transformed into anguish and anxiety.  I can't believe Time magazine actually printed this. I think he could have just interviewed us Dawgtalkers and got the same story. Check out the bolded quote from the hispanic lady. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2024065,00.html Encountering Anguish and Anxiety Across America By Joe Klein Thursday, Oct. 07, 2010 On a blistering evening in Phoenix recently, a group of prominent civic leaders met to talk about America. It didn't take long for the conversation to get around to the fall of the Ottoman Empire. That's what happens when smart Americans get to talking about politics these days. Topic A is the growing sense that our best days as a nation are behind us, that our kids won't live as well as we did, that China is in the driver's seat. This is a popular, perhaps even dominant, theme in the U.S. this season — but it doesn't begin to describe the anguish that dominated every conversation about politics I witnessed during a four-week trip across the country. With a month to go before a crucial election and campaign ads cluttering the TV, people were in a heightened state of political awareness. I've covered more than a few midterm campaigns, but this one seems particularly fraught. I talked to dozens of politicians running for office and hundreds of voters. The voters were, with few exceptions, more eloquent and unpredictable — and, of course, candid — than the politicians. They tended to be extremely frustrated with the national conversation as presented by the news media. They tended to be more anxious than angry — although the infuriated, fist-shaking third of the electorate, the Tea Party cohort, seemed a far more powerful and immediate presence in people's minds than the President of the United States or his party. Republicans seemed more talkative than Democrats, and more precise about their solutions: lower taxes and less spending. "People say to me, 'I don't like the Democrats because I don't know what they stand for,' " said Lisa Urias, a Latina businesswoman in Phoenix. "I tell them, 'I hate the Republicans because I know exactly what they stand for.' " I found the same themes dominant everywhere — a rethinking of basic assumptions, a moment of national introspection. There was a unanimous sense that Washington was broken beyond repair. But the disgraceful behavior of the financial community, and its debilitating effects on the American economy over the past 30 years, was the issue that raised the most passion, by far, in the middle of the country. Many Americans also were confused and frustrated by the constant state of war since the terrorist attacks of 9/11. But for every occasion they raised Afghanistan, they mentioned China 25 times; economics completely trumped terrorism as a matter of concern. Road trips are nourishment for the mind and the soul, if not the body (given the quality of roadside food); from Huckleberry Finn to The Hangover, they have been a classic American pastime. The trip exploded my personal Beltway Bubble, which turns out to be more a state of mind and a set of habits than an actual place. Driving 6,782 miles in four weeks, I was forcibly weaned from my usual engorgement of newspapers, magazines, blogs and books. I watched no more than 15 minutes of cable news per day but listened to music obsessively. I was cleansed and transformed, a news junkie freed from junk news, and able to experience Americans as they are — rowdy and proud, ignorant and wise.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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What a horribly written piece. If that is what passes for journalism these days, I can see why the print media is dying. He starts out with a really condescending comment. "This is what smart people talk about". Really? Then why can't you put together a cohenent article of more than 5 papagraphs explaining your 4 week trip?  The Ottoman Empire? Really? I know a lot of people .... and consider some of them to be extremely smart. Not once have we compared the US to the Ottoman Empire. There may be some minor similarities, but the biggest concern, which the author may not be willing to admit, is the fact that the Ottomans printed tons of money for what we would consider "stimulus" type projects today. They could not borrow it internally, and they could never raise the amounts "needed" through taxation. They screwed the pooch with their poor methodology in issuing of currency, which resulted in a debased and undervalued currency from the very start, a refusal to borrow money available to them from Europe and other sources, and a ton of other factors. They also threw tons of money into military expansion. In fact, infrastructure and military spending is what drove them into the financial crapper. The US is also still the richest nation in the world, with the highest standard of living across the board. I don't think that the Ottoman Empire could ever make that claim. (at least not in the last 2 centuries) Then the writer moves on to people. He just rambles from thought to thought, never expounding on anything. He just jumps from one idea to another, and talks about anger in one party, then quotes a person supposedly with no love for either party with what can only be construed as, an angry comment. He gives a statement of a major Republican stance, and then throws in some forced quote to try and diminish the impact of what voters are telling him. He talks about a heightened sense of political awareness, but never says that this is predominantly on one side. He brings up Afghanistan, but then says that it was trumped 25-1 by China. It's like he's looking for someone to agree with one of his issues, and failing. (except maybe the smart people and the Ottoman Empire) If I was the editor, and the guy took 4 weeks, and drove 6,782 miles, and returned with this, I would have sent him back out ...... for good. Wow.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, the Ottoman Empire,...the one that stretched across Afghanistan at one time,....the juggernaut bastian of economic democracy.
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It is a shallow comparison at best, and one that doesn't hold up under close examination when tested against the premise that the writer (and supposedly smart people) put forth.
It would be like calling all Chevys "Edsels" because i got a flat tire riding in one. You could make the comparison, but it would be unwarranted and ridiculous.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If I was the editor, and the guy took 4 weeks, and drove 6,782 miles, and returned with this, I would have sent him back out ...... for good.
LOL! I don't know if this is Time's attempt to be "fair and balanced" or what. For some reason, they keep sending me the magazine, which I've never paid for and hardly ever read.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Especially since Edsels were Fords.
The car actually had no major mechanical defects and sold in decent numbers, it just was nowhere near the world-beater it had been hyped as, being the first major new car after Henry's son took over.
The corruptness, inefficiency, and huge size of the bureaucracy is, IMO, a point of comparison.
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Why did you title the thread this way? This didn't seem to be a piece about Obama at all.
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Why did you title the thread this way? This didn't seem to be a piece about Obama at all.
I'm sure he was just taking a page from Charlie's book. Just like the firefighter thread has nothing to do with the tea party.
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Perhaps because the election was to usher in a feeling amongst the populace that business as usual was a thing of the past. Instead, it continued much to their (the people's) chagrin.
Obama has been failing on the promise to deliver that which people had hoped he would bring. Remember, he was touted as having a "once in a generation mind."
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Why did you title the thread this way? This didn't seem to be a piece about Obama at all.
Obama campaigned on fixing the partisanship and restoring confidence in the American people and the government.. that was his big thing.... he didn't run on policy, he ran on platitudes and those were his platitudes... the article points out that things in those areas are as bad or worse now than they were when he took office.. nobody has any confidence in the economy or the government and partisanship is as high as it ever was... so there is a perfectly logical connection between this article and Hope and Change, even if the author doesn't make the connection directly.
Funny thing about partisanship, when Bush was in office and trying to push his initiatives through the democratic minority, the partisanship was because he was an overbearing arse who wouldn't listen to anybody.... now that he's gone the partisanship is because the republican minority won't capitulate to what the president is trying to push through. 
yebat' Putin
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Perhaps because the election was to usher in a feeling amongst the populace that business as usual was a thing of the past. Instead, it continued much to their (the people's) chagrin.
If you believed that for even a nanosecond then you deserve what you get. No matter which side of the isle it comes from it amounts to the same B.S. "they " have been feeding the voting public for a long time.
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Why did you title the thread this way? This didn't seem to be a piece about Obama at all.
When I saw anguish/anxiety, hope/change was the first thing that came to mind and it made me chuckle. Point taken.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Obama campaigned on fixing the partisanship and restoring confidence in the American people and the government.. that was his big thing.... he didn't run on policy, he ran on platitudes and those were his platitudes
That's exactly what Bush campaigned on. And Clinton before him. It's what the next guy will campaign on too.
It amazes me how people can be surprised that a President can't do everything he wants to completely change the country in two years. It took Bush the full 8 years to completely destroy everything Clinton did. Obama will take 8 years to completley destroy everything Bush did.
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What did Clinton do?
In detail ... with numbers and facts.
What condition was the stock market as Clinton was leaving office? What was the condition of th doc.com sector at that point?
I was just wondering if you could look that up.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't know about that.
Of course everyone is going to say that they're going to fix partisanship. They aren't going to say that they're going to ram their agenda down everyone's throat, and damn the other side of the aisle.
Obama was supposed to be different. This was a foundational part of his campaign. The Change part referred to how business is done in Washington. Everyone thought he would be different because he said so himself, and structured his campaign to highlight that fact. Yes, everyone says this when they're running for office, but he took it to the next level and made this promise for change. This was one of the main (among several) reasons people voted him in, in my opinion.
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
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Bush the full 8 years to completely destroy everything Clinton did
Please enlighten us as to what greatness Clinton accomplished
#gmstrong
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It amazes me how people can be surprised that a President can't do everything he wants to completely change the country in two years.
Obama said this is the greatest nation on earth, why does he want to completely change it? I've seen the change he has achieved in 2 years and with 6 more years of it, there will be nothing left.
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It took Bush the full 8 years to completely destroy everything Clinton did.
This is one of those insanely stupid things that the liberals keep spouting off even though 99% of them have no clue what they are talking about...
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Obama will take 8 years to completley destroy us all.
Fixed it. 
yebat' Putin
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Obama will take 8 years to completley destroy everything Bush did.
There's a decent chance that we're only going to see 4 years of destruction from this clown.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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What did Clinton do?
In detail ... with numbers and facts.
What condition was the stock market as Clinton was leaving office? What was the condition of th doc.com sector at that point?
I was just wondering if you could look that up.
Sorry, I work for a living.
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Okay, don't look anything up ... just let us know of ONE piece of legislation or major presidential action he took that helped spur the economy? Just anything off the top of your head. And, if you don't know what the stock market or dot com industry looked like before Clinton left office, and don't care to research it ... plenty of people here can remind you. We won't even get into terrorist-threat non-action, and what THAT did to the economy a year later. 
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Quote:
Quote:
What did Clinton do?
In detail ... with numbers and facts.
What condition was the stock market as Clinton was leaving office? What was the condition of th doc.com sector at that point?
I was just wondering if you could look that up.
Sorry, I work for a living.
Generally, if you can't back up what you say - when you insinuate it as fact - you probably ought to preface it by saying "I think", or better yet - "I can't prove it, but I feel".
We all work for a living. Well, some of us.
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Social security was better off. National debt was less. Welfare was down. Unemployment down.
At the end of bush: Social security on life support. National debt highest ever (until now), welfare up. Unemployment up. Stock market crashed. Banks being bailed out.
just off the top of my head.
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oh yeah, and Cliton didn't alienate the entire world, including our allies, with his arrogance.
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It's ok, I've looked it up.. I've spent a fair amount of time looking it up.. Wanna know why I've looked it up? Because things were great under Clinton economically and I like to learn from the past (successes and failures).. so I thought that if I could find what Clinton might have done to foster that kind of success that I would support that in the future and recommend that my candidates of choice follow that model...
I regret that I honestly wasn't able to really find anything that can be attributed to Bill Clinton that "created" the economy that he enjoyed presiding over... Some of the liberal rags attribute the whole economic boom to this little thing or that little thing that Clinton did but none of it was really convincing...
The best that I can tell, the tech boom was going to happen no matter who was in office and Clinton was the beneficiary of it.. I'd love to be proven wrong... I mean that sincerely, I would dearly love for somebody to show me what policies fell into place (either by Clinton or Bush or Reagan or whomever) to make that economy possible so that we could replicate them now and into the future... Trust me, I'd MUCH rather have a booming economy and argue over the sexual exploits of the President than have to wonder if I'm still going to have a job next week...
yebat' Putin
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Okay, don't look anything up ... just let us know of ONE piece of legislation or major presidential action he took that helped spur the economy? Just anything off the top of your head.
And, if you don't know what the stock market or dot com industry looked like before Clinton left office, and don't care to research it ... plenty of people here can remind you. We won't even get into terrorist-threat non-action, and what THAT did to the economy a year later.
Don't Ask, Don't Tell,...
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Social security was better off. National debt was less. Welfare was down. Unemployment down.
just off the top of my head.
those are the effects of the economy.. we're looking for the cause of the great economy... See people were making record wages, money was flowing, millionaires being made every 20 minutes or something stupid like that, stock market going through the roof, dotcom businesses starting out making tons of money...
All of the things you mentioned were a result of that.. we are looking for the cause. There has to be a tax policy or a trade policy or some kind of regulations or deregulations that Clinton changed to make the economy go off like it never has before... has to be something... right?
yebat' Putin
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It's ok, I've looked it up.. I've spent a fair amount of time looking it up.. Wanna know why I've looked it up? Because things were great under Clinton economically and I like to learn from the past (successes and failures).. so I thought that if I could find what Clinton might have done to foster that kind of success that I would support that in the future and recommend that my candidates of choice follow that model...
I regret that I honestly wasn't able to really find anything that can be attributed to Bill Clinton that "created" the economy that he enjoyed presiding over... Some of the liberal rags attribute the whole economic boom to this little thing or that little thing that Clinton did but none of it was really convincing...
The best that I can tell, the tech boom was going to happen no matter who was in office and Clinton was the beneficiary of it.. I'd love to be proven wrong... I mean that sincerely, I would dearly love for somebody to show me what policies fell into place (either by Clinton or Bush or Reagan or whomever) to make that economy possible so that we could replicate them now and into the future... Trust me, I'd MUCH rather have a booming economy and argue over the sexual exploits of the President than have to wonder if I'm still going to have a job next week...
Probably you're right. presidents are like coaches and Qbs, they get too much credit either way things go.
However, Bush certainly did plenty to help accelerate the collapse of this economy, including scaling back regulations and lowering government income such that we're in a mess now of which we may never recover. Regarding what a president is actually able to do, Bush is the worst president i've ever experienced or studied. Clinton was pretty decent, overall. His republican congress actually helped him a little. Bush's congress helped destroy him.
Either way, I'd take Obama 8 days a week and twice on Sundays if it was between him and Bush. I hate Bush, always will, and no amount of argument or numbers wille ver change my mind. Because I lived through it and he made me throw up in my mouth on a daily basis.
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However, Bush certainly did plenty to help accelerate the collapse of this economy, including scaling back regulations and lowering government income such that we're in a mess now of which we may never recover.
Bush did some stuff I didn't like.. but a lot of the banking deregulation or lack of oversight that experts say caused the collapse were pushed and in some cases initiated by democrats, in fact Clinton started some of it by pushing home ownership on people who couldn't afford it.. Bush made it worse, but it was not all on him, not at all. There are audio clips of experts going before democratic committees telling them that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were on the verge of collapse because of the mortgages they had been pushed to write but the democrats wouldn't hear it...
Bush was handed an economy heading into a recession and was, shortly thereafter attacked on 9/11... then to his credit we had 2 or 3 years of pretty decent growth and recovery before the subprime mortgage collapse and I think that is on both parties because they were both pushing banks to lend money to unqualified people so the government could claim record homeownership numbers, primarily by blacks... sad..
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Bush is the worst president i've ever experienced or studied. Clinton was pretty decent, overall. His republican congress actually helped him a little. Bush's congress helped destroy him.
I have said on this board several times that our country works best when control is split.. a repub president with a repub congress is a bad idea just like a dem president with a dem congress.... A President sets the tone or the agenda and pushes social issues but it is the congress that holds the purse strings and that is where we have fallen down badly.. I voted for Bush twice, he is far from my favorite President.. I like Obama less but neither of them was or is now being served well by their congress...
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Either way, I'd take Obama 8 days a week and twice on Sundays if it was between him and Bush. I hate Bush, always will, and no amount of argument or numbers wille ver change my mind. Because I lived through it and he made me throw up in my mouth on a daily basis.
I sort of feel that way about Obama but I still hope the economy turns around.. it sickens me to think that if the economy does start to pick up that he is going to get credit for it when I will go to my grave believing that his policies have only made the problems worse and more long term... but I want America to thrive, even if that means I have to look at Obama.
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Social security was better off. National debt was less. Welfare was down. Unemployment down.
Okay ... what again did Clinton sign or do to make all of this better? Like DC is saying, you're pointing to reactions that happened when Clinton was in office ... not actions that Clinton did to actually cause any of that.
There's this video awhile back of a guy interview people at a Clinton book signing. People were raving about what a great president he was, but when pressed for any sort legislation he enacted that made him so "great", everyone responded with the same ... "uhhh" and empty stare.
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However, Bush certainly did plenty to help accelerate the collapse of this economy, including scaling back regulations
Again, care to provide specifics as to which regulations that were scaled back that caused the collapse? The biggest one I can think of, is the scaling back of home loan requirements, which caused thousands upon thousands of people to qualify for home loans that they weren't qualified for, which caused the collapse of the real-estate boom, which in turn caused the collapse in the banking industry, which in turn caused loans to dry up, which in turn caused the poor economic climate for consumers and business, which has pretty much put us into our current economic funk. The only problem is ... Clinton is the one that scaled back most those loan requirements, not Bush.
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and lowering government income
The biggest "lowering of government income" had everything to do with the collapse of the dot com boom, and not the "Bush tax-cuts", as everyone would have you believe. The amount of income generated a few years after the tax cuts went into effect was actually more than the income generated at the time they were put into effect ... so at worst, it really had no effect on "income generated"
But income tax is based mainly on, well ... people's income ... so if people have jobs and are making money, then that equals more income tax coming in. Since there was an artificial dot com boom going on in the late 90's, most of that "income" getting generated was based on a shaky foundation to begin with. As DC has shown, Clinton had little to do with the dot com boom itself, and was more or less the beneficiary of it. The crash of the stock market and dot com boom was well under-way before Bush even stepped into office ... so he really had no discernable effect on that loss of income.
Then 9/11 kicked the dirt on what was left of the economy, and one could argue Clinton's previous terrorist policies/inaction for 8 years contributed more to that than any Bush inactions in the 9 months he was in office
At any rate ... You can't say Bush lost government income because the dot com bubble burst and sapped personal incomes ... any more than I can say Obama ruined State Government income ... Just because Bush happened to have a huge real-estate boom, and states reaped the benefits of higher property taxes.
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I hate Bush, always will, and no amount of argument or numbers wille ver change my mind.
Well glad you are so open minded about it. 
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It's easier to hate Bush than to look at facts. Simple minded people do that. Intelligent people don't.
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Are you calling me simple minded?
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If you read the reast of that comment about hating Bush, it was because the man disgusts me. If his economic policies turn out to be perfect, I'll still hate him, although I'll acknowledge his policy. same goes for his foreign policy, if you can call ignoring the rest of the world a policy.
I hate who he is and what he says. that's why the numbers or argument won't make a difference to me. It's his morality and soul that I hate, and always will. If he turns out to be historically the greatest president ever (fat chance) I'll STILL hate him and wish death and suffering on him for all eternity. Him and Lebron.
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You're getting off topic...Clinton, what policies did Clinton create that made the economy great?
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Wow, that's pretty harsh. "It's his morality and his soul that I hate ..." and ..... "I'll STILL hate him and wish death and suffering on him for all eternity." .......
I would love to say that I understand ..... but I can't feel that way against any but the most vile and murderous people on the face of this Earth. Even then, I feel that they will stand in judgement to a much higher authority for what they have done, so I can rest easy that once they leave this plane, they have an entirely new level of divine retribution and recompense awaiting them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Posts: 626 |
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I can't feel that way against any but the most vile and murderous people on the face of this Earth.
That's how I feel about Bush. He has the blood of 100,000's of people on his hands who died for lies and money. He did it knowningly and intentionally. The difference is, I don't believe in heaven or hell, so I can only hope he suffers now constantly until his death.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 51,058
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 51,058 |
Well ...... I feel sorry for you then. It's a shame to go through life with that much hate eating away at you, minute by minute, day by day ..... eroding your soul ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
The people change, the institution does not.
I imagine you don't have the same venomous feelings for Obama, despite the fact that he and Bush have handled things very similarly.
Obama's already got blood on his hands himself.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
I can only hope he suffers now constantly until his death.
Karma.
Every
Single
Time.
I wish you the best.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,959
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,959 |
Quote:
Are you calling me simple minded?
I wasn't, no.
But, judging by the rest of your comments in this thread.......well, you tell me.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Here's your hope and change
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