|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
should we fans be taking 'mental notes' as well? I mean, I'm not delusional enough to think the Cavs are title contenders. I'm not even sure we are playoff contenders at this point (best case scenario I think is winning ~41 games and anywhere from the #7-10 spot in the East). More likely is 30-35 games and out of contention. However, it amazes me that so many writers are believing the Cavs are going to completely fall apart. Dwyer predicted 17 wins. CNNSI is now predicting last in the Central (which still houses the Pistons and Pacers-with their injury concerns). I just don't see it because it seems to ignore a few things: 1. 17 wins would be the worst since the season before LeBron when we had to purposely tank at the end of the season with a roster that was much, much worse off than this one is. 2. Byron Scott is a good coach. 3. Energy teams may not be able to fully compete, but they can catch a lot of teams on off nights and take advantage. 4. We actually have some young talent noone seems to notice (Hickson, Gibson, Sessions) to pair with the veterans that are not bad pieces even if they aren't guys you start a championship team with (Mo, AV...and Jamison if he gets his head out of his rear) Am I completely off base here?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
I don't think you're off base at all. My preseason prediction has been 48 wins and a 5 or 6 seed (I think Boston, Miami, Orlando, Chicago and possibly Atlanta will have better records). There are still a bunch of really bad teams in the East, but the Cavs are not one of them. Hickson and Gibson are having great preseasons, and word is that Ramon Sessions is doing an excellent job handling Coach Scott's offense. Andy hasn't even played a game yet, but we all know what he brings to the table.
It's going to take some getting used to when we're not going on double-digit win streaks, but this team will compete and win more games than it loses. No way are we worse than teams like the Raptors, Knicks, Nets, Wiz, Bucks, Pacers, Sixers or Pistons.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798 |
I have to agree with both of you. There is no way the Cavs only win 17 games. I love how many in the national media picked the Cavs to win it all last year before the Boston series in large part because of their depth (and LeBron of course), but now all of the sudden their articles are saying how none of these guys can play. Which is it?
My best case is around .500, mostly because other than the Bulls, the Central is not that great.
Last edited by tjs7; 10/14/10 12:54 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639 |
We are not better than the Bucks and the Pacers actually have a nice core they are building after aquiring Collison in the off-season. Granger is far and away better than anyone on our team.
We should be in the mix for a bottom playoff spot if we can stay healthy but its far from a guarantee even if we are healthy. We are going to let up a ton of points.
Eat it Phil...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
You guys keep us posted on how they're doing.  I am on NBA sabbatical. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
no, you're not off at all. i think i feel safe guaranteeing 30 wins. people still forget that the cavs play in the east, which is still weak. it's top heavy like it always is (miami, boston, orlando are title contenders) but the rest of the teams are so/so (chicago will be decent, the bucks are ok, atlanta is ok, charlotte is halfway decent)
the cavs should still have a defensive mentality even if they don't have the athletes to match up. the effort alone should get you a few extra wins.
i think a few guys might actually shine too, now that they don't have any reason to stand around and watch any one player. now that they will actually see the ball move around.
part of me wishes they were a 17 win team so we could get into the lotto and get right back up to the top of the standings. but byron scott is too good of a coach, i think our players are too proud, and the east is still very weak.
they kicked my rear end last night and i play for orlando. i could not get any offense going. twan was on fire. guy was hitting everything.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388 |
Quote:
they kicked my rear end last night and i play for orlando. i could not get any offense going. twan was on fire. guy was hitting everything.
Huh?
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
Quote:
they kicked my rear end last night and i play for orlando. i could not get any offense going. twan was on fire. guy was hitting everything.
Huh?
nba 2k11 my player feature. you create your own guy and through drills and combine practices, you build up your stock to get drafted.
i got picked by orlando.
highlights: i love playing with dwight howard, and the 2 man game between me and jameer is awesome
lowlights: i hate playing with VC, that guy is a chucker. i wish you could call teammates out.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798 |
Quote:
part of me wishes they were a 17 win team so we could get into the lotto and get right back up to the top of the standings. but byron scott is too good of a coach, i think our players are too proud, and the east is still very weak.
I sometimes think this too, but then I think about how not every draft has a Lebron, Kobe, or Dwayne Wade. You could very well tank it, and either not win the lottery, or have a very weak draft. It's better to just draft and play to win the most games, and hope that when the CBA comes up again, some things are done to make more of a competitive league. That's probably wishful thinking, but it's way better to me than watching a team that wins 17 games and the best player available in the draft is Michael Olowkandi (sp?), Kwame Brown, or Andrew Bogut.
The Cavs will have to trade for talent b/c FAs don't usually come to the Midwest, but that is not unheard of. The Celtics got 2 of their big 3 this way. And they pulled off those trades off of a team that won 24 games and was largely devoid of talent. The bottom line was that they were willing to take on the big contracts of Garnett and Allen. When the time is right, I have no doubt that Gilbert will be willing to take on those kinds of contracts.
Last edited by tjs7; 10/14/10 09:31 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
but it's way better to me than watching a team that wins 17 games and the best player available in the draft is Michael Olowkandi (sp?), Kwame Brown, or Andrew Bogut.
you can't put andrew bogut with those 2, he was having a solid year until he shattered his hand on that freak play. 16&10, not bad.
it's not lebron or kd or dwight, but it's a solid player.
i wish we could have the luck of the bulls from a few years ago. play hard every game, just miss the playoffs, and by a longshot, get the #1 pick and derek rose. great consolation prize to not getting obliterated by the celtics in the first round.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798 |
Quote:
you can't put andrew bogut with those 2, he was having a solid year until he shattered his hand on that freak play. 16&10, not bad.
Your right that it's not fair to lump all three together. My point is that it's not that I don't think Bogut is and will be a very solid player. But I just don't see him as the cornerstone of a franchise like, say, Shaq was. And certainly not worth a whole season of tanking.
Quote:
i wish we could have the luck of the bulls from a few years ago. play hard every game, just miss the playoffs, and by a longshot, get the #1 pick and derek rose. great consolation prize to not getting obliterated by the celtics in the first round.
That makes two of us.
Last edited by tjs7; 10/14/10 10:07 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
but while bogut is good, the bucks did pass up d-will and cp3.
i think one thing is certain in the nba, about 90% of the time when you are drafting high, don't get infatuated with the big man. sam bowie, greg oden, etc...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388 |
Side note, lol at dummy arenas faking injuries so that Nick Young will get playing time. What a buffoon.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
but while bogut is good, the bucks did pass up d-will and cp3.
i think one thing is certain in the nba, about 90% of the time when you are drafting high, don't get infatuated with the big man. sam bowie, greg oden, etc...
Also, you noted Bogut's 16/10 but you also have to make sure you note his defense and intensity. He sets the tone for Skiles defense and is willing to throw teammates into place if they get in the wrong spot. He was extremely impressive last year.
So, I'll agree with Adam_P's post above if he's willing to remove the Bucks from the teams the Cavs are better than (assuming Bogut returns to form from injury).
Also, one of the reasons I said it was more likely we end up closer to 30 wins is because I think if we get a rash of guard injuries like last year, Scott's system and therefore our offense will suffer greatly.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
i don't have a huge problem with it, cause it was pre-season, but if you're gonna do that, don't tell anyone.
that guy is all talk though.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405 |
I'm feeling 31 wins for this team, but I haven't seen 1 second of preseason to witness (no pun intended) Scott's system...its just my gut feeling. Some of these guys (JJ and Andy) are going to start the season being a little lost without you-know-who breaking down a D or drawing double team's and getting easy dimes.
17 wins is someone's crack pipe talking. Anyone saying 45 is using the same pipe, IMHO.
"My signature line goes here."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
30 wins sounds about right to me ... although, I kinda agree with Sperg ... 17 wins might be better in the long run.  On the bright side ... getting a Clippers/Cavs ticket this year should be cheap and easy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
I think we're probably about even with the Bucks. I said we weren't worse than they are, and I believe that. I predict we win five of eight against the Bucks and Pacers.
The caveat of course, as is with my season prediction, is that we remain relatively healthy throughout the season.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
... although, I kinda agree with Sperg ... 17 wins might be better in the long run.
I think most of us do, it's just not what this team seems geared to do.
Especially since there's a chance that this year's record could go into determining the draft order of the 2011 and 2012 drafts (if there is a full season lockout next year, which seems sort of likely at this point but is hard to determine if the NFL is also on lockout and the NBA actually gets its act together to avoid one)
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Yikes ... 2011 could be the year with no sports at this rate. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405 |
Quote:
Yikes ... 2011 could be the year with no sports at this rate.
Yep. Even if the Indians do play, we could have no pro sports in 2011. 
"My signature line goes here."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,281
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,281 |
Quote:
I think we're probably about even with the Bucks.
I am a huge Cavs fan, but this sounds like a homer talking here... The Bucks won 3 playoff games last season without Bogut... Jennings returns with more experience... They now have Magette and a healthy Bogut... Mbah a Moute is a pretty damn good defender at this point in his career
Skiles will keep them extremely focused, and they will play better defense than us...
The Bucks will be pretty motivated knowing that they hung tough without Bogut last year...
I heart winning
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
bucks are 45-50 win team, maybe over 50 if they stay healthy and a few things bounce their way.
but i think the cavs are probably a team capable of being in that kinda class. but they need a few things to bounce their way to be a 45 win team.
don't forget that the cavs have some tradeable assets.
you have twan who is a free agent after next year (becomes even more valuable next summer) if he is playing well the cavs can probably get something back.
jj i think is untradeable. he's in the final year of his deal, has good upside but something tells me unless someone is really desperate, you won't get equal value in return.
the only way i could see it being valuable was if you traded him to a fringe team in the west. where if a few things don't go your way or you get hurt, or even if you just get straight outplayed, a first round pick could be a potential lottery pick.
leon powe is also in the final year, but i would love to hang onto him. i think if he's healthy he can be a solid 4 or a beast of a 6th man.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,679
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,679 |
Quote:
Side note, lol at dummy arenas faking injuries so that Nick Young will get playing time. What a buffoon.
The funny part is he played the next game and hurt his groin...
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
seriously, if he would have said nothing, nobody would have questioned it. i mean the guy is ALWAYS hurt.
sad because when you take away that, and take away the garbage, not just the gun thing, but the stupid stuff he pulls off the court, he's actually a good player.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
according to mary schmidt boyer (new brian windy) the cavs are gonna leave twan on the bench.
the starting 5 may very well be mo, ap, jamario, jj, andy
twan will be your 6th man, with boobie as the next guard out, and hopefully leon powe healthy as another big guy. who knows maybe even samuels turns out to be a force.
if nothing else it should be fun to watch that bunch get up and down the floor. i think it'll be nice to watch, and much different than mike brown and lebron's stanky leg offense.
i also think byron scott is going to be HUGE for mo. i expect mo to have a solid year. his defense should improve and just overall ability should improve.
i love byron scott, even if he sported a nazi tie.
this team isn't gonna be a one seed. they'll get one natinoal game that espn can humiliate them with, but they most certainly won't sniff the suckiness of the 2002-2003 ricky davis led cavs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433 |
That year was the best just for listening to John Lucas talk about how the team was a bunch of kids in his raspy voice. That year also had the ridiculous THIS IS CLEVELAND! commercials with the players.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
with those hideous uniforms, and the renegade shooting at his own basket to try and get a rebound. ah, the days  i mean really, look at your top 8 players. it's not all that bad. if they could somehow find a 2 guard better than ap and stick ap on the bench i think they'd actually be set up nice. backup pg boobie, backup sg ap, backup 4 leon backup 5 samuels backup 3/4 twan. who knows, maybe they can make a trade. honestly, it would never happen (so don't jump on me) but if they landed melo they'd be right back in the mix. it'd be the perfect place (when you take away the fact that he wouldn't wanna play in cleveland) basketball-wise, it would be. players wanna play for scott.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
I heard some rumblings that Byron Scott liked the way Ramon Sessions was handling the offense...what do you think are the chances that he and Mo started with AP and Boobie coming off the bench? I really don't know squat about Sessions.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
ah crap i forgot about sessions. a good depth player.
i don't like his size for a sg, he'd have trouble defending certain guys, but i think he's gonna see some time out there with mo, would rather see him paired with ap. both guys can run the point.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639 |
J/c
Is the game not in HD tonight?
Eat it Phil...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,679
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,679 |
Quote:
J/c
Is the game not in HD tonight?
It isn't on Uverse.
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
If it weren't for the HIDEOUS looking new uniforms, I might be excited to watch the Cavs this year.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
If it weren't for the HIDEOUS looking new uniforms, I might be excited to watch the Cavs this year.
boring, yes.
a step-down from previous, yes.
but, I haven't thought they were hideous. hard to be with such an uninspired design. I really hope that they are the product of Gilbert just wanting a change for the sake of change and that we'll have 'real' uniforms next season.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639 |
I like them a lot better. Was never a fan of the previous script and hated that dull wine and gold.
Eat it Phil...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405 |
Quote:
If it weren't for the HIDEOUS looking new uniforms, I might be excited to watch the Cavs this year.
I watched the game last night. The uni's left a lot to be desired. Most definitely a step or two down.
As for the Cavs, they looked respectable. I wish I could have seen you-know-who in Scott's offense. Quite possibly right coach, wrong time.
"My signature line goes here."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
I like the bland uni's too. Simple, basic, Cleveland.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626 |
Quote:
As for the Cavs, they looked respectable. I wish I could have seen you-know-who in Scott's offense. Quite possibly right coach, wrong time.
Totally agree. just cements even more what a stupid decision he made.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433 |
J/C
Any of you guys been seeing the stuff on sports center about the idiot? It's been a week long special that is basically telling everyone not to hate him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
just wait. it's gonna get worse.
when dec 2 comes around, just shut off the tv, because it's gonna be all about how bad cleveland is, how bad cleveland fans are, and how much of the victim lebron was.
i love windy and i love his writing, but his article from yesterday is utter garbage.
lebron is basically more deterined than ever, he is fueled by hate.
for one, why wasn't he determined with us for 7 years. you know, i'm really sick of the national media lebron apologists giving us the "well you shouldn't be mad look at what he gave you for 7 years" what, an unfocused attitude towards winning a championship and never delivering? and then making a mockery of the organization and the town on national tv?
for two, don't act like he's the only guy who receives hate mail. i've heard some stories about the stuff that's been said to guys like hank aaron, derek jeter, jim brown, etc... but they were never publicly putting it out there so they could put on this new front so they could seem "more focused"
all it is is an easy way to twist things to the way you want them to be interpreted. racist tweets or not, lebron is going to have a good year because he joined up with 2 other all stars and went against everything that makes the nba a great thing.
and for the people that tweeted the racist thing to lebron, shame on you, grow up.
i'm over lebron, i wish him well, i hope we kick his ass on the 2nd, and i would easily welcome him back any time, but i'm tired of bspn.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cleveland Cavaliers
|
|
