|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
I agree with that. If you tear it down completetly, you could be rebuilding for the next decade if you don't land a superstar or multiple all-stars. You look at teams like the clippers, wolves, warriors, pacers, grizzlies, and kings they have been in the lottery for the last 5-7 years, and havn't done much towards building a championship team. The kings seem to have hit on cousins, and evans, but they still have a long way to go to become a playoff team. The pacers have been at 30 wins the last 5 years it seems. For every Kevin Durant you get 10 busts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
I wouldn't necessarily say you get 10 busts, but you definitely don't get guys who are top-5 material.
IMO there are 10 guys who have been selected with a top-5 pick in the 2000-2009 drafts who were worth that pick. That's 20%...not a very good percentage of success.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
I want to see Manny Harris come off of our bench. I feel very highly about the kid. It's a joke that he wasn't drafted. He reminds me of Jamal Crawford.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
you have no other choice.
you aren't going to attract top tier talent.
your best bet is to put your funds toward good scouting and try and find guys out of nowhere. a la the way san antonio seems to get it done.
the draft is where you are gonna find your team. there are usually 5-6 impact guys every draft and you just gotta be the team to come out with one of those guys.
yes, lebron and durant don't come around often, but there are other players that aren't as good that can help your team.
like i said, you really have no other choice.
as far as trading guys, it's not really the cap space, it's just getting picks, exceptions and other things back to help your team.
but you aren't forced to deal them so it's not like you have to take garbage back.
if the deal is right, i would get rid of just about anyone on this team for picks/exceptions/etc
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
the draft is where you are gonna find your team. there are usually 5-6 impact guys every draft and you just gotta be the team to come out with one of those guys.
yes, lebron and durant don't come around often, but there are other players that aren't as good that can help your team.
I agree with this. Problem is, those guys usually aren't guys taken in the top 5. You take a guy in the top 5, he'd better get you 20 points or 9-10 dimes a game, or its a wasted pick, IMO. You have to be able to build a franchise around a top-5 pick.
As for getting back exceptions in trades, what is the point in that unless you're going to use them to trade for a good player to help your team? You're not going to trade for a garbage player, and trading for a good player goes against the mindset of tearing down the team to go after a high lottery pick. Seems like circular logic to me.
All I'm saying is that if we tear it down completely and play for a high lottery pick, by the time the team is relevant again, we can probably use our cap space to sign LeBron in free agency. Getting the high lottery pick gets you the player, but your team is still three years away from being relevant.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
we can probably use our cap space to sign LeBron in free agency.
One never knows ... but I imagine the Gilbert/James relationship is over.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Yeah I was being sarcastic there, just using the length of his contract to illustrate how long the team will be mired in mediocrity before you can even entertain the though of making a playoff run.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Again, one never knows ... an NBA team can be turned around very quickly ... probably quicker than any other team sport out there.
No better proof than us ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
Again, one never knows ... an NBA team can be turned around very quickly ... probably quicker than any other team sport out there.
No better proof than us ...
?? It took the Cavs three years with the most talented player in the NBA to even make it to the playoffs. Three straight <32 win seasons before throwing a season to get the #1 pick, then three more years before even earning a playoff berth. Four years for a turnaround.
Edit: re: Boobie for Chalmers, the last thing any team in the NBA needs to do is send a spot-up three point shooter to Miami. Especially for a mediocre player like Chalmers in return.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
Quote:
Again, one never knows ... an NBA team can be turned around very quickly ... probably quicker than any other team sport out there.
No better proof than us ...
that is totally false in my opinion. nba is the hardest out of the 3 leagues to make turnarounds. the last 31 championships have gone to 8 teams. for the most part the same teams are in the playoffs every year.
In the last 10 years, I have 8 guys that could be labled as franchise players. Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Kevin Durant, Dwight Howard, Carmello Anthony, Chris Paul, Derron Williams, and Derrick Rose. That's about 1 player a draft that could put your team over the top. I didn't put guys like Gasol, Kenyon Martin, Chris Bosh, Brandon Roy, or Amare in there. Those players are all-stars, but not the superstars I mentioned above.
Even if you get a top 10 pick, plenty of those players don't do much of anything.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Yep, and those superstars you listed have 1 ring between them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
you need a superstar to win in the nba. We never got James his 2nd all-star. But go look at teams like the hawks, wizards of a few years ago. They have 2-3 all-stars, yet can't get much done once they run into the team with the superstar. Kobe has 5 rings, Jordan has 6, Tim Duncan 4. The pistons of 04, and even celtics of 08 don't come around that often.
I'm not a Lebron fan anymore, but that team will dominate the nba for however long they choose.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
I wouldn't trade with Miami unless the trade was so ridiculously one sided in our favor that it made LeBron James' eyes bleed and Dwayne Wade cry.
I don't see Chalmer for Boobie as ridiculously one sided.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 74
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 74 |
You missed Kobe and Nash.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
He said guys drafted in the last 10 years.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
IF we can we need to go after Greg Oden with an offer.
PG: Sessions / Mo
SG: Booby / Manny
SF: Draft pick / Jamison
PF: JJ / Andy
C: Oden / Hollins (If he continues to improve and show hustle)
We need to get rid of our older players like Moon and AP. Don't trade for any big name guys that will be here for 1 year. We've got to rebuild period. Our GM realizes this from all of the interviews I've seen. In the next draft get a shooting guard.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Oden is like 22 years old and has already had major surgeries on both of his knees. That doesn't bode well for a 285 lb 7 footer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
i love greg oden but i want no part of him or his badly damaged body. i feel bad for the guy, cause he seems to genuinely love the game.
and it really sounds like lebron is starting to crack a little bit on last summer, article up on espn.com saying he would have done things differently.
it doesn't go into detail on what he'd do. but i think we can all guess.
local press conference (obviously covered by national media) thanking fans, city, organization.
actually quite similar to the "decision" but just a different setting. and probably scrapping the now famous "take my talents to south beach" household phrase.
but in all honesty, if he knew he was gone for sometime now, like well before the season even ended, he should have just announced it july 1, and not rolled all the teams into downtown cleveland in that total circus that ensued.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
He only cares because his image is damaged on a national level. He knew the cavs fans would hate his ass, but I don't think the hate would reach as far as it has. That's why I can't stand the guy. He never liked the city of Cleveland in my opinion. All that nonsense of yankees, and cowboys crap at the games was evident of his feelings for the city. Then when he left, and he made the comments of still hating people in cleveland, that was it for me. I don't have one bit of sympathy for this guy. Bottom line, he is saying things now, just to save his own image on the national level. Screw him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
i don't think he's trying to save face. he knows he screwed up. he knows he's gonna hear it december 2nd, i think he honestly realizes what he did.
i don't think he's a bad guy. i know several people who have run into him over the years, including my own mother and not one of them had a bad thing to say about him. polite, down to earth, just an overall a nice kid.
but there's no doubt i think his biggest mistake was letting his friends have so much control.
i really love what dan gilbert said on the radio the other day, he's pretty much over it. his focus is on the team. he said he hopes it's more cheering for the cavs on december 2nd than getting after lbj. although he said it'd be a nice rub-it-in if the cavs win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
I have a hard time believing that. It doesn't take almost 4 months to come to the realization that you screwed up. A few weeks after he left he was still standing by how he handled things, and went on to talk about his hatred for people in c-town. If the backlash wasn't so severe on the national level, you wouldn't hear anything like this from James. This is all orchestrated by nike in my opinion. Just look at that stupid commercial.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
The only way that what any Cavs fan has to say on December 2nd will have any ounce of meaning is if the Cavs are somewhat relevant. If we're 2 -15 or 3-14 then its going to look horrible, even if its nothing more than booing and catcalling. It would come across as sour grapes, like "you left us and now we can't win a game". Nothing more than a woe-is-us appeal to his massive ego, and it'll be sickening.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
The only way that what any Cavs fan has to say on December 2nd will have any ounce of meaning is if the Cavs are somewhat relevant. If we're 2 -15 or 3-14 then its going to look horrible, even if its nothing more than booing and catcalling. It would come across as sour grapes, like "you left us and now we can't win a game". Nothing more than a woe-is-us appeal to his massive ego, and it'll be sickening.
and that's how espn will paint the picture. they are going to make cleveland look bad regardless of happens. i honestly think there is nothing we as a fanbase can do. they are gonna make lbj look like the victim.
remember, we can't be passionate. we come off as "classless", when philadelphia, a big market, does the same thing, it shows their "passion", wel they are a "hardcore" fanbase.
it's typical bspn. we will not win that night. if the fans don't show up, it shows they are not loyal fans. if the fans show up and boo and chant and hold up signs, it shows they are classless. if they show up but do nothing to lebron it shows that we're pathetic and it's typical "woe is me"
i hate that this game is nationally televised. i know i have said this before but i HATE it. it's an absolute joke.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Quote:
Oden is like 22 years old and has already had major surgeries on both of his knees. That doesn't bode well for a 285 lb 7 footer.
Greg Oden = Sam Bowie.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Maybe we should just chant "ESPN Sucks!" all night so they can't show any highlights. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
i still think the fans should chant STD when wade goes to the line.
but that's just me, and i don't care.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
my thought process is more of using the "chicago model"
they tanked it after they lost MJ/Pippen/Phil and it did take them years to recover. but, they built that team up and now have a young corps where they were able to add Boozer (though not helping if he is injured)
now, it took them way too long because of 2 reasons. 1: they didn't have a high-level plan for the type of team they wanted to be (of if they did, they didn't stick to any one plan). 2: they gave up on some players way too early (i.e. Chandler, Ty Thomas)
if we decide we are going to be a running team who needs a great PG and surround them with athletic players, then I think we can build this team in the next 3-4 years.
we acquire as many draft picks and young players that fit our system (but maybe not the system they are currently in) with our older players and build the team up that way.
sure, if we draft poorly, or if we don't have the structure to stick with our plan, we could falter, but it's the 'best' option to getting back up to the top level that I see.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
Get well, Joe.
**********
Cleveland Cavaliers broadcaster Joe Tait is in ICU at Cleveland Clinic
Published: Monday, November 01, 2010, 10:19 AM Updated: Monday, November 01, 2010, 11:18 AM
Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Veteran Cavaliers broadcaster Joe Tait was taken to Cleveland Clinic Sunday afternoon after suffering chest pains and dizziness.
Tait is scheduled to undergo heart surgery to replace an aortic valve at Cleveland Clinic later in the week.
People close to the Tait family say the Hall of Fame broadcaster felt very ill on Sunday, and doctors say he may have suffered a blood clot in his leg.
He is said to be "stabilized," but was in ICU this morning. The 72-year-old Tait has battled pneumonia and heart problems in the last few weeks.
Tait's doctors will run some tests and consider what action to take next as they examine him over the next day or two.
© 2010 cleveland.com.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
I have to get this off of my chest. I feel dirty praising a Kentucky player.
However Demarcus Cousins will be a very very good player. He reminds me of a poor mans version of Shaq. I think he will be a dominate force if he can control his emotions.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
However Demarcus Cousins will be a very very good player. He reminds me of a poor mans version of Shaq. I think he will be a dominate force if he can control his emotions.
watch Derrick Favors and you can cheer for a rookie big man without cheering for a Wildcat. Dude is good.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
So what's better my LePippen sig or the TJ Ward southpark sig?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
go with the ward one. can't go wrong with south park
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
So what's better my LePippen sig or the TJ Ward southpark sig?
LePippen.
But, if you could somehow have an animated sig with TJ-Southpark crushing a LePippen Southpark that would top both 
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,960
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,960 |
Tj, the less people think about the deserter the better everyone will be.
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Why would anyone be against going after Oden?
Low risk insanely high reward.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Low Risk?? Have you been following Oden's career so far?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
Low Risk?? Have you been following Oden's career so far?
As long as we don't give him a Mike Conley type contract it should be fine 
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cleveland Cavaliers
|
|
