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I think we are just getting to step 3 on that scale... of course a couple more wins would be 4 in a row, that's pretty consistent. 
yebat' Putin
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We ended last season on an up note. The team learned to win. Then we made some significant changes, and had to learn again. We lost the first 2 games because of easily corrected mistakes.
We could easily be 5-3 if not for 2 mistakes. This team is ready to win.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That's spin imho, significant changes? Same coaches, same style, same strengths/weaknesses...we won late last seaosn running the ball, then come out passing the 1st weeks? wth?
I read all of what I read today after last year's finish...then we started out 1-5 again...you know why they cal em "little spurts"? because there's a lot of stagnation before and after....that's the way I see it...wins like today are pretty meaningless when you lose other games you should have won...yeah the difference is 5-3 and 3-5 and that's the difference between meaningless and important games left
..oh and the 2 mistakes argument is a classic homer one....if NE didn't fumble and throw that INT in the 1st H they'd go into HT up 14-10, right? See, it even works in a game we dominated....we lost to TB and KC because we score 0p in 4x2nd H Quaters....that's why we lost them...we LED both those games when those "mistakes" happened...we also had a fumble today but didn't lose, right? Better coaching (gutsy playcalling) and sticking to the run were the difference to the TB and KC games....NOT "2 mistakes"...that's a homer's fairytale...the coache's put the players in a much better position to succeed, that's why we finished those games
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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1 last Mangini-hate observation though:...
You said it, not us. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Significant changes.
3 new QBs
New RB
New TE
Yeah, that's significant.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Welcome to the party. We've had a bowl of kibble set aside for ya... right next to the Kool-Aid bowl.... 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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I think that we're somewhere between step 3 and 4.
I'm a little less generous than you, Y. I'd say we just got to 3. Win two of the next three, and I'll b right there with you.
Win them like they won today's game, and I'll be pulling the bandwagon...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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I'm inclined to believe in the players on this team this year. If you saw Hillis's presser he says that this team is a winner this year. Not 2-3 years down the road... now.
If the players see it that way I don't see any reason why I shouldn't.
I've been seeing this team much different than any others... even the ones who did have winning seasons for some odd reason don't have the same feeling that this team has now.
I'm fully in the Mangini camp on this one. The players respect him in the same way you can hear other players talk about other very successful coaches.
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It's the culture shift I've been talking about all along. It's one of those intangible things that take time to root in a team that was devoid of any identity for so long.
I was impressed when Mangini fined Braylon Edwards for the water bottle. It showed me that we had a coach with stones enough to smack down an unruly 'star' on his team. When he talked about players being accountable, he meant it. Then he backed his words with deeds. He talked from day one about "the process," which I think I understood from the start. "The process" was as much about instilling a culture as it was coaching up players and drawing up x's and o's. Having the right kind of players is as important as having huge talent when your team is devoid of a core identity, so changes were made.
No Edwards.
No Winslow.
No Harrison.
No whiners.
No excuses.
No dysfuction.
No drama.
No players who don't want to be here. No locker room or off-field incidents. More disciplined play on Sundays. Players holding their heads high. Increased confidence. A new, smashmouth "we don't take crap from ANYBODY" identity. Professionalism.
These things only happen once a team coalesces and forms its culture. All the above are individual character traits, but they all have their roots in the same foundation.
Anybody who couldn't see this as it was happening just wasn't looking for it. Now, it's taking hold and good things are starting to happen. The wins are starting to come... because we're finding ourselves.
It's a very cool thing to see... even for those who could already see it coming....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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This man GREW as a Head coach today....the guy flat out called a brilliant game..brilliant!
Your still wrong KoB Magini has always been a good coach at least long before he got to Cleveland what he has now (and it has taken time) is a team of players that are begining to understand their rolls in the scheme and they have learned how to play together on the football field.
But Mangini hasn't grown a bit as a coach the team however has gottin better by working hard and working together.
BTW I'm glad to see your finally on board with Mangini, thats great honestly and it takes real guts to man up and admit when your wrong..................... Kudos to you for that...............
Bjango your next.......................
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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23-25, 8-16...that's not a 4.5years record of a "good" NFL HC, sorry...I need more than that
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Listen to what Mangini has been saying all along. You have to learn to practice, then learn to play, then learn to win, then learn to win consistently.
I think that we're somewhere between step 3 and 4.
he's been saying that or something like that since he got here. His approach since day one has been consistent.
So, some would say he's learning to be a HC or Growing as a HC. I don't think either of those statements are correct.(at least no more correct than it is for any coach) I think he's always been good and just needed to get the players and attitude in place so that it would show up.
This coming from a guy that last year at this time, I wanted his butt fired.. I was wrong then,,
Three things have happened,, Hillis came along, McCoy is better than expected for a 3rd round rookie and the D had really picked up. Four things if you count the ST's play.
Did the coach or coaches just get smarter? No, I think this was what they had in mind from the get go.. this was the plan..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think some forget just how bad this team was when Eric took over. What impressed me most about EM was how he stayed the course while being crucified by the media day in and day out and while getting such little support from the fanbase and local media. So many were filled with such hatred for the guy that they couldn't see the suttle changes being made leading up to our winning streak to end last season.
I knew retaining EM this year was the right choice and I was ecstatic when MH saw it as well. With all the roster changes AGAIN this season and yet another regime change, coming out with the slow start is understandable, especially when you could see how close we were to winning most of those games we lost.
I think the naysayers have lost just about all the steam they had left in an effort to get rid of him,of course, there's always going to be the one or two guys out there that will still be complaining even after we win a SB.
All I know is that it feels real good to be a Browns fan today.
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23-25, 8-16...that's not a 4.5years record of a "good" NFL HC, sorry...I need more than that
Right, he could have been 36-44 through 5 years, that wouldn't have been good enough either.. but then that was just Belichicks record.  So clearly Mangini is going to amount to nothing.
yebat' Putin
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Django say what you will but winning is a lot about attitude and when this team made mistakes early in the year they got tentative and they folded.. the last couple games they were able to overcome mistakes...
This team, for a long time, has played with a very fragile ego.. like a fighter with a glass jaw.. yesterday I thought about that when Hillis fumbled and I thought about that when it looked like the Pats were going to make it 17-14 at halftime.. but this team responded again and again and then drove the final nail with that last TD drive...
Winning is a skill above and beyond just playing well and we took a step yesterday in learning that skill. We played well, absorbed some mistakes and ultimately put away a very good team
yebat' Putin
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It's the culture shift I've been talking about all along. It's one of those intangible things that take time to root in a team that was devoid of any identity for so long.
I was impressed when Mangini fined Braylon Edwards for the water bottle. It showed me that we had a coach with stones enough to smack down an unruly 'star' on his team. When he talked about players being accountable, he meant it. Then he backed his words with deeds. He talked from day one about "the process," which I think I understood from the start. "The process" was as much about instilling a culture as it was coaching up players and drawing up x's and o's. Having the right kind of players is as important as having huge talent when your team is devoid of a core identity, so changes were made.
No Edwards.
No Winslow.
No Harrison.
No whiners.
No excuses.
No dysfuction.
No drama.
No players who don't want to be here. No locker room or off-field incidents. More disciplined play on Sundays. Players holding their heads high. Increased confidence. A new, smashmouth "we don't take crap from ANYBODY" identity. Professionalism.
These things only happen once a team coalesces and forms its culture. All the above are individual character traits, but they all have their roots in the same foundation.
Anybody who couldn't see this as it was happening just wasn't looking for it. Now, it's taking hold and good things are starting to happen. The wins are starting to come... because we're finding ourselves.
It's a very cool thing to see... even for those who could already see it coming....
Exactly.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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All Pro
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I think that we're somewhere between step 3 and 4.
I'm a little less generous than you, Y. I'd say we just got to 3. Win two of the next three, and I'll b right there with you.
Win them like they won today's game, and I'll be pulling the bandwagon...
I'm thinking the Jets game will tell us an awful lot about the team. If we can put away three pretty good teams back to back to back, then I am really going to take notice. There certainly are no guarantees on this stretch of the schedule. For the record I always thought Mangini was going to be a decent coach. I just never figured on him getting the chance to prove it in Cleveland.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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23-25, 8-16...that's not a 4.5years record of a "good" NFL HC, sorry...I need more than that
Right, he could have been 36-44 through 5 years, that wouldn't have been good enough either.. but then that was just Belichicks record. So clearly Mangini is going to amount to nothing.
Oh, django... that's gotta hurt. 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Yesterday Colt McCoy became the first rookie QB in NFL history to make his first 3 starts against Super Bowl winning QBs and we beat 2 of them..  In fact these 3 teams and these 3 QBs have won 6 of the last 9 super bowls.. and we beat 2 of them..
yebat' Putin
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BTW I'm glad to see your finally on board with Mangini, thats great honestly and it takes real guts to man up and admit when your wrong..................... Kudos to you for that...............
Thanks, yes im willing to eat my crow and admit when im wrong.
I can see what Mangini is doing here and he deserves more time to build it...today was a glimpse of what he is building and it looks like the Old Browns teams i grew up watching (hardcore running the ball playing physical Defense and O)
he deserves a chance to finish building it....so I do mean it...i am not calling for his head no more...no matter what happens from here on out...he deserves a chance to build it.
I will say Colt McCoy and Peyton Hillis are the tip of the sword 
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I'm thinking the Jets game will tell us an awful lot about the team. If we can put away three pretty good teams back to back to back, then I am really going to take notice.
Sadly, I think we're not a good matchup against the Jets. While I think we'll be able to contain Tomlinson and Greene, we have our hands full with Holmes, Cotchery, Keller, and Edwards. We only have 3 corners and we really don't defend TEs very well. The Jets have a pretty good O-Line but we absolutely have to get pressure on Sanchez to have a chance. This might be difficult with the head coach of our opponents being the brother of our D-coordinator, especially since our pass-rushing depends on surprise/uncertainty instead of skill.
Also, the Jets are 4th in the league in run D. It will be tough to get Hillis going. Revis/Genghis Cromartie v. MoMass/Robiskie... well, that's a bit of a mismatch. We need to get Stuckey, Moore, Watson, and Hillis heavily involved in the passing game to have a shot.
The one thing we should really have going for us is the game being in Cleveland with it being Edwards' first game back. The fans have to hype up the players and get into Edwards' head quick. Then stay there.
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Quote:
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BTW I'm glad to see your finally on board with Mangini, thats great honestly and it takes real guts to man up and admit when your wrong..................... Kudos to you for that...............
Thanks, yes im willing to eat my crow and admit when im wrong.
I can see what Mangini is doing here and he deserves more time to build it...today was a glimpse of what he is building and it looks like the Old Browns teams i grew up watching (hardcore running the ball playing physical Defense and O)
he deserves a chance to finish building it....so I do mean it...i am not calling for his head no more...no matter what happens from here on out...he deserves a chance to build it.
I will say Colt McCoy and Peyton Hillis are the tip of the sword
Interesting KoB.. this is not to say they won't have a bad game.,., I think you look at the Pats and clearly, they are a well coached team with a top QB and offensive weapons.. Yet, we beat them into the ground yesterday..
Point is, no matter how good you are, you can still get beat..
Don't jump off the bandwagon at the first sign of trouble..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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23-25, 8-16...that's not a 4.5years record of a "good" NFL HC, sorry...I need more than that
Right, he could have been 36-44 through 5 years, that wouldn't have been good enough either.. but then that was just Belichicks record. So clearly Mangini is going to amount to nothing.
Oh, django... that's gotta hurt.
No, it doesn't because correlation doesn't imply causation....Belly is the exception not the norm. How about you check out all HC's with a sub .450 record after 5 years...I'd guess half of them didn't get a 6th or 7th year in the league...and the other half doesn't come close to Belly
The win was great and there are enough reasons to enjoy it for the time being...I'm as happy as any of you, believe it or not, but I'm not going to forget the big picture....how did we feel when we beat the NYG on MNF? or the Steelers last season? See? We still came back and managed to be a loser, so I'm not throwing a party yet...I will give Mangini and his staff 1 thing though for sure...I complained his team never had a complementary team game like the NYG monday night win....well, yesterday's win qualifies and I never thought I'd see a Mangini led Browns play this way, so he deserves credit for it.....keep it up and I'll gladly eat more crow
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Sadly, I think we're not a good matchup against the Jets. While I think we'll be able to contain Tomlinson and Greene, we have our hands full with Holmes, Cotchery, Keller, and Edwards. We only have 3 corners and we really don't defend TEs very well.
This may be the most intriguing matchup now until the Pitt/Bmore games..
The fact is the Jets will go uptop and deep to attack Brown/Wright.
Whoever has the Edwards matchup is going to need to have deep cover help.
Our LB's are slow and the TE's wil be send down the hash into the secondary so that is going to pose a problem.
The Jets have a pretty good O-Line but we absolutely have to get pressure on Sanchez to have a chance. This might be difficult with the head coach of our opponents being the brother of our D-coordinator, especially since our pass-rushing depends on surprise/uncertainty instead of skill.
Ryan loves to blitz and shoot the corners..they're going to have to disguise the packages almost perfectly to get pressure on him.
I would expect to see some 4-3/2-5 sets against Sanchez.
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this was the best job I have ever seen any coach do here in Cleveland---Brown to the Bone
I always meant to thank you for that quote bjango. That sets me up to look like a genius when all the world was calling for Mangini's head I was calm, cool, collected, and ON POINT.
So thanks...................Even if you did take the quote out of context. The best coaching I have ever seen does apply, even if you didn't think so then and still don't, it applied then, it applies now..............
It's not easy and it doesn't happen over night, the building of a viable championship team has been trying and heartbreaking and maddening at times but you have to have the stones to believe in something and stand strong in your beliefs in the face of adversity and the lynch mob. You keep up your front if you so choose just know your nearing the point where your standing alone. I know that feeling because many that now sing Mangini' praise were lighting the tourches and preparing the rope..............
I said it then I continue to say it this team is going to win lots and lots of games we still are bound to experience bumps in the road, but brother we are about to hit pay dirt, to bad you still refuse to see what is right in front of you.
You in the end may be the last to fall Bjango but fall you will……………………….. Like I said best example of coaching I have ever seen, and before it's all said and done remember where you heard this too, Mangini will be right up there with his mentor..............count on it...............
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Ryan needs to be bringing the blitz, especially against Woody. Rattle Sanchez and he will make many mistakes.
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No, it doesn't because correlation doesn't imply causation....Belly is the exception not the norm. How about you check out all HC's with a sub .450 record after 5 years...I'd guess half of them didn't get a 6th or 7th year in the league...and the other half doesn't come close to Belly
How many coaches do come close to Belly? And you are right that most coaches are gone after year 3 if they aren't winning yet.. and the teams that do that are usually perennial losers... like the Lions, the Browns, etc... So to reverse the trend, let's try something different and NOT get rid of a coach after 2 or 3 years..
I am also still tracking the whole "KC and TB are better than we are and are headed in the right direction while we are standing still" debate... KC just lost to the Raiders, TB lost to the Falcons.. neither one of them has beaten a team with a winning record this year and I continue to feel better and better about where we are in that debate as well.
yebat' Putin
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I never felt the Bucks/Chiefs are much better than the Browns if they are actually better..I thought they were even..the Browns had opportunities to win those games and blew it,so it doesn't make the argument that they are better football teams.
Now I'm not jumping on this wagon yet..
Obviously the bar is being raised and this is where everyone wanted to see the Browns progress to..so the coaches must continue to elevate their preparation and the players must elevate their execution,in othe words they have to bring it every game regardless of the level of comp..the Jets game is already taking a color to it considering the names involved with both teams.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/08/10 12:46 PM.
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and you have good reasons to think that....we improved dramatically from the start of our season...and this time (not like the 4wins last season) the improvement looks more substantial and for real...but I still need more consistency
Right now for me it looks like this: TB has better long term talent even though being a worse team with an easier schedule and playing in the NFC. KC is similar to us in long term talent and has less good vets/"win-now" players BUT has better coaching...that said, I watched the entire KC-OAK game (had money on it, lol)...and they should have won it (KRet-TD against and RedZone INT didn't help) and the play calling yesterday was pretty bad, especially on Offense...
#gmstrong
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Chiefs totally blew that game.... and though I'm a Texans fan they should have won the Texans game as well... of course if Johnson doesn't make an UNREAL TD catch then they would have won.
I agree with you for sure that we have looked like we have improved every week. I just WISH we could have pulled off at least one of our first two games.
<><
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I'd be all for that but we have to watch for the screen pass and quick slant routes to their plethora of receivers.
This coming game is going to be even more indicative of how Mangini and his crew can get these players to play.
Last edited by RocketOptimist; 11/08/10 01:12 PM.
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Sadly, I think we're not a good matchup against the Jets.
This exact same thing was said before the Pats game too. (DC I think)
I see it as while we were kicking the crap out of the Patriots , the Jets were struggling to get an OT win in Detroit. With the head of steam we're going with right now,...I like our chances.
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The measure of all teachers is to have their students surpass them. BellyBelli got treated to a lesson from a student, and it was hard to swallow, sure. But he will see a lot of good things in the game film. Hats off to every unit, and to Daboll for figuring out how not to waste plays and call what works. Daboll grew today fer shure. Gini had success, not sure I buy into the "growth" thing. He has stood by his guns. I saw confident players with some swagger and self-belief. He hasn't changed a bunch of the official line, but it clicked on every cylinder yesterday. We were there in the Pound on the Pond and it WAS electric for a change. Yesterday we had real Fans, not just loyal out of habit, sitting and waiting. This team made me cheer, Colt McBoy performed amazingly well again. And I loved it. And I am hungry to see them win again, more than for a number of seasons. I never stopped rooting and caring, but yesterday a Team arrived, and it played Browns Football again. Here we go, Brownies, here we go! Heard it all day. Thanks to the players, coaches, FO for a great day!
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,219 Likes: 590 |
Some are still instinctively piling on Django because it's just become habit by now.
I think Django is finally being fair and offering up fair assessment. All we can do is wait and watch and see if this thing really is what we think it is. Personally, I think the seeds that Mangini had sown are finally bearing fruit rather than the past two games being a fluke.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
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Sadly, I think we're not a good matchup against the Jets.
This exact same thing was said before the Pats game too. (DC I think)
DC may have said this as well, but I definitely not only said it but laid out exactly why I thought that (their pass O vs. our pass D while they are used to ignoring their rushing when they need to. our run O vs. their run D and their weakness being the pass D we weren't sure we could exploit).
very glad that I was wrong. we match up great with the Pats
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,475 Likes: 162
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,475 Likes: 162 |
Quote:
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Sadly, I think we're not a good matchup against the Jets.
This exact same thing was said before the Pats game too. (DC I think)
I see it as while we were kicking the crap out of the Patriots , the Jets were struggling to get an OT win in Detroit. With the head of steam we're going with right now,...I like our chances.
Jets have had two bad games in a row... we've had two great games... I still think this will be another hard game for us. The Jets defense is very good and similar to our own. They have some big time WRs that could really hurt our DBs. So as someone else said we really need to get pressure on Sanchez.
<><
#gmstrong
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Joined: May 2007
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
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Getting pressure on Sanchez is key, but the way we put game plans together in order to confuse Brady and Breese I would think that we could do the same with Sanchez. There's really no reason to think otherwise. On O they have to figure out how to contain Hillis without getting burned on the trick plays.
I think Mangini has alot more in his bag of tricks and against an undisciplined team like the Jets,again,I like our chances.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
This exact same thing was said before the Pats game too. (DC I think)
Yeah, but not by me.  Plus, if it worked last week...
Oh, BTW... Happy birthday, TopDawg!
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I see it as while we were kicking the crap out of the Patriots , the Jets were struggling to get an OT win in Detroit. With the head of steam we're going with right now,...I like our chances.
Yeah, but we're a different team than the Lions. Their wideouts are much more talented than ours... we don't have a Calvin Johnson to draw double coverage to free up Bryant Johnson and Nate Burleson. Heck, we don't have a Nate Burleson. The Lions also have a better D-Line and a darn good safety in Delmas.
We have a power running game that the Lions don't have but that Jets are better equipped to handle. The one similarity on O between the two teams is that we both have a pair of talented pass-catching TEs and our #1 RBs can catch the ball. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, that will be key to having success against the Jets for us.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Sadly, I think we're not a good matchup against the Jets.
This exact same thing was said before the Pats game too. (DC I think)
DC may have said this as well, but I definitely not only said it but laid out exactly why I thought that (their pass O vs. our pass D while they are used to ignoring their rushing when they need to. our run O vs. their run D and their weakness being the pass D we weren't sure we could exploit).
very glad that I was wrong. we match up great with the Pats
You can have the credit.. I didn't say it.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,533 Likes: 1326 |
j/c
I find this thread pretty funny really. Do some people think Mangini and his staff learned how to coach in a week? Seriously? Or that some magic light turned on all of a sudden for them?
Did people ever stop to think that this group needed to work together to slowly open up the play book where they could do this? That we had players assembled that had never really played together that much.
I mean how much time did Colt have practicing with the first team before he started? We have a new secondary for the most part with new LB'ers in the line up as well. How long do you think it takes for them to develop some kind of chemistry together?
All we saw was a team that's maturing. We saw the ability to attack more. To deploy more variations on O and D.
What we saw was a team maturing to a point the coaching staff could actually execute their game plan. They are starting to be able to actually open up the playbook more as time passes.
Nobody "grew" as anything accept our team and they'll conrinue to grow. To think Mangini had some kind of apiffany is hilarious.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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