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Legend
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Legend
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have you ever been to an Orthodox church during XMAS or Easter season.
No.
yebat' Putin
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Smoking is a right and I find the holier than thou attitude as disgusting as you find smoking. You don't like smoke in restaurants, I understand and can live with that. As for bars that should be up to the bar owner and if you don't like the smoke in the bar you have 2 options find a non smoking bar or stay home.
How do you make the distinction between a bar and a restaurant? Nearly all bars serve food and most restaurants have bars. Why even make the distinction in the first place-- just because alcohol is being served it implies that everyone in the place accepts the risks and nuisances of second-hand tobacco as well? I don't agree.
How you feel about the nonsmoker leaving or finding another bar is how I feel about the smoker infringing on the right of everyone else to breathe clean air. Specifically, take it outside and you can smoke whatever you dang well please.
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Yeah your thumping your non smoking chest right now and talking about all the filth that gets all over you from smoking. Well just wait because whats next? No alcohol served in a bar? Hey stand outside of a bar at 2:00AM and see how many drunks get behind the wheel, they are endangering peoples immediate lives. Then maybe we can make it so obese people get their own section in restuarants, I mean why should I have my appetite ruined by some over weight disgusting person. Yeah the fat person has no rights, it's my right to not have to look at it, so maybe they can eat outside. Sounds rude doesn't it, well it's no different than the way you come off.
No chest thumping here.
All of your examples fail in the simple respect that they don't immediately force the habit onto every single person in the area.
If you can't understand the difference, for example, between second-hand smoke and being around a person that is eating something unhealthy, then franky, I don't know what to say. Now if they were spewing trans fats in the air and bothering people and harming their long-term well being, you might have a point. That's clearly not the case.
Also I should point out that there are DUI laws, sort of proving my point to begin with, but that's a different discussion for a different thread.
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Bottom line is keep wishing these big brother laws to try control big companies down to individuals and eventually you too will be effected. If you think this game begins and ends with smoking then you are sadly mistaking.
When I think of big brother laws I think of government trying to protect a person from themselves. In nearly all cases, I would think such a law is a bad law. This isn't the case-- smoking is legal and it should be legal.
The difference is that it's protecting the nonsmoker from having the habit forced upon them in public. And if you feel the need to bring up anymore examples to attack the public smoking ban in a roundabout way, ask yourself if this habit or activity immediately forces the habit on everybody else in the establishment.
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Pete and Prp.. I'm essentially in agreement with both of you so unless the thread twists, I'm done here after this. 
I believe that in a competitive environment, the owner should get to decide if his/her place is smoking or non-smoking.. By competitive I mean primarily bars and restaurants, places I think are NOT competitive would be a stadium.. I can't just go to a different Browns game because the guy downwind from me is smoking 17 cigarettes during the course of the game.. Other places I would put in that group would be theatres, airplanes, churches, etc..
I hear ya, but I don't agree with ya. You have the choice of going to the game or not going to the game. You don't have a right to the game. You know in advance whether or not smoking is permitted and what that may entail for you.
Ditto with churches, etc...
That said, I think that none of them would choose to allow smoking these days and it's all moot.
The ONLY places I could ever support a legislated ban on smoking is in hazardous environments - e.g. near flammables or oxygen.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The difference is that it's protecting the nonsmoker from having the habit forced upon them in public.
And when a person has the CHOICE of going into said restaurant or bar....how is he or she having a habit FORCED upon them???
They don't HAVE to be there...they don't HAVE to work there...they can choose to work elsewhere...the government does not assign people to their jobs.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Yes, I suppose you could live like a hermit and not go anywhere, that is an option.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Every restaurant will become a smoke filled hole in which you can't see your hand in front of your face if we allow people to actually make their own choices...   GMAFB
...and yet, that is pretty much what was happening before the law went into effect. Of course, not every place was a smoke filled hole, but just about EVERYWHERE you went there were multiple smokers. Why allow the 30% that smoke ruin the right to clean air for the rest of us? (I think it's more like 20% but the point remains the same)
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Legend
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You have the choice of going to the game or not going to the game.
But there is no equal alternative to going to the game...
So by your rules, if a dude a few seats down at the stadium is allowed to light up and his smoke is blowing in my face or my kids face all afternoon can I douse him with water? Can I stand and pee at his feet and tell him to just deal with the smell and discomfort of sitting in a puddle of stale urine? Can I throw my hot dog wrapper in his beer? Can I wear a big wide superman cape and stand in front of him the whole game? When we score can I pull my wanker out and wave it in front of his wife and kids as a form of celebration? Can I just drink a lot and puke on his kids?
Why should smokers be allowed to make so many other people uncomfortable but everything on the list of things that I WANT TO DO at the game are all against the rules because they would make other people uncomfortable?....
yebat' Putin
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I don't disagree.
What I do think is it should be handled as it is here in Tn.....all business' such as restaurants/bars have to declare if they are a smoking establishment where then can only cater to people 21 and above, or establishments who cater to any age and can't allow smoking.
If you want to smoke, you seek out one place. You don't want to be around smoke, you seek out another.
Works fine down here.
Basically it works out like this....true bars end up being smoking establishments while the Chili's of the world end up non smoking establishments.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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well  Quote:
Can I stand and pee at his feet and tell him to just deal with the smell and discomfort of sitting in a puddle of stale urine?
smells like Pittsburgh
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Can I throw my hot dog wrapper in his beer?
sounds like Oakland
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Can I wear a big wide superman cape and stand in front of him the whole game?
there are just some lines you can't cross in any NFL stadium.
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When we score can I pull my wanker out and wave it in front of his wife and kids as a form of celebration?
I think this is standard in Cincitucky
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Can I just drink a lot and puke on his kids?
obviously Philly
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
You have the choice of going to the game or not going to the game.
But there is no equal alternative to going to the game...
So by your rules, if a dude a few seats down at the stadium is allowed to light up and his smoke is blowing in my face or my kids face all afternoon can I douse him with water? Can I stand and pee at his feet and tell him to just deal with the smell and discomfort of sitting in a puddle of stale urine? Can I throw my hot dog wrapper in his beer? Can I wear a big wide superman cape and stand in front of him the whole game? When we score can I pull my wanker out and wave it in front of his wife and kids as a form of celebration? Can I just drink a lot and puke on his kids?
No, but you can freely go to a non-smoking establishment and watch the game there.
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Why should smokers be allowed to make so many other people uncomfortable but everything on the list of things that I WANT TO DO at the game are all against the rules because they would make other people uncomfortable?....
Because those things all already have rules against them, pretty much all rules by the establishment.
If the establishment sees it your way and makes smoking a part of that list, then you can't smoke.... until then, you should be able to. It isn't your place to demand the conditions - scarcity of venue be damned.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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No, but you can freely go to a non-smoking establishment and watch the game there.
I don't want to, I want to go TO THE GAME.
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Because those things all already have rules against them, pretty much all rules by the establishment.
Right because it is just common sense that those things are gross and make other people uncomfortable... like smoking.
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If the establishment sees it your way and makes smoking a part of that list, then you can't smoke.... until then, you should be able to.
Not in an establishment that was built with taxpayer money.
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It isn't your place to demand the conditions - scarcity of venue be damned.
Oh it is exactly my place to demand the conditions.. as a customer or a potential customer it is exactly my place to demand the right conditions.. I'm not going to slink off to some other place to watch the game without my voice being heard loud and clear that their rules are stupid and need to be changed...
Look at it this way, I'm making a huge concession here.. less than 1% of the surface of the world is under covered roof or otherwise meant for human occupancy.. the smokers can have the other 99% of the planet to smoke... 
yebat' Putin
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Actually I agree with DC and his non competition issue. But I didn't have an issue when there were designated areas within the stadiums where people were allowed to smoke...they were usually outside the seating area where there was an open space that could carry the smoke away...But they even took those away....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Legend
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I don't want to, I want to go TO THE GAME.
And I want to be guaranteed to win the lottery.
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Right because it is just common sense that those things are gross and make other people uncomfortable... like smoking.
but unless the establishment says that they aren't permissible, they are.
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Not in an establishment that was built with taxpayer money.
That's a separate issue... but it still goes back to my stance on ownership having the say on things. If the taxpayer is the owner, then it should go to a vote.
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Oh it is exactly my place to demand the conditions.. as a customer or a potential customer it is exactly my place to demand the right conditions.. I'm not going to slink off to some other place to watch the game without my voice being heard loud and clear that their rules are stupid and need to be changed...
Unless it is a taxpayer funded establishment such as above, that's precisely what you'll do... you'll vote with your wallet - or you'll suck it up and live with the proprietors rules.
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ook at it this way, I'm making a huge concession here..
I don't need a concession, and I don't care if the smokers only have 0.5% of the planet... what I care is that the Gov't and legislation keeps itself the hell out of places it has no business... and that is pretty much any place that is privately owned, regardless of the uniqueness of that place. If it is private, you have no right at all to be there. You are a guest of the proprietor just like the rest of the public. If you don't like their rules, carry yourself on to a place that is more akin to your tastes.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Look at it this way, I'm making a huge concession here.. less than 1% of the surface of the world is under covered roof or otherwise meant for human occupancy.. the smokers can have the other 99% of the planet to smoke...
Technically, you have to exclude the oceans and lakes - I don't know of many people that say "hey, I want a smoke - let's head out on the ocean 500 miles or so".
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Quote:
well
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Can I stand and pee at his feet and tell him to just deal with the smell and discomfort of sitting in a puddle of stale urine?
smells like Pittsburgh
Quote:
Can I throw my hot dog wrapper in his beer?
sounds like Oakland
Quote:
Can I wear a big wide superman cape and stand in front of him the whole game?
there are just some lines you can't cross in any NFL stadium.
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When we score can I pull my wanker out and wave it in front of his wife and kids as a form of celebration?
I think this is standard in Cincitucky
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Can I just drink a lot and puke on his kids?
obviously Philly
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Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Prpl, you seem to be getting worked up and since we are in almost absolute agreement, I think I'll stop.
yebat' Putin
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Just a general reply ....... Personally I would find warning labels on stupid people far, far more useful. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Heh, I'm bored at work and tired as hell today, but not worked up... I just wholeheartedly disagree with ya
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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There is a workplace safety issue here as well. Fact is that your work environment forces you to breathe in carcinogens. You can't say that its an individuals choice because you can't say, "Well, its that's person right to work in an unsafe work site." A safe workplace is everyone's right- whether you accept a risk or not.
Of course, you could issue bar workers respirtators, but it would likely cut back on the tips. I dunno how beer tub girls could look hot in a breathing apparatus....
Well, actually maybe I could....hmmm...
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Legend
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Heh, I'm bored at work and tired as hell today, but not worked up... I just wholeheartedly disagree with ya
Actually you don't. I've been on the "the establishment should get to decide" side since the beginning.. the only place we have some disagreement is in the limited venue area.. other than that small slice of the argument we are in pretty much complete agreement.
yebat' Putin
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I disagree on the disagreement! Wait, what? Right! I agree that we agree on the majority of the issue, but on the rest - I wholeheartedly disagree with you.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Legend
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Roger Roger.. you were over Under and I was under Dunn.
yebat' Putin
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Well, I'm glad all of that makes perfect sense now.
What's next... quantum mechanics or "things you can do with play-doh"?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Oh Look!!!! There's a sale at Penney's!!!!!
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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How about graphic packaging for womens lingerie?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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