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Face it, the difference between the AVERAGE nfl player and the guy that would sub for him isn't huge.
If this were true we'd be in the playoffs every year or close to it.
Your position is right in style. If this were about 1918.
Face it.....if your boss walked into the building after getting out of his Rolls Royce and told you to take an 18% pay cut and work an extra 2 weeks to boot you'd laugh in his face. To say anything else is disingenuous at best.
Here's another way to look at it. I saw prp at one of the Browns games this year. He pulled up in a nice ride. Now, he doesn't pay you or I to be on this site - but what do you suppose he'd say if you and I said "hey, prp, you're making too much money off of us being on your site - we demand to get paid, and if you won't pay us, we demand to see your books."
What do you suppose he'd say?
(and yes, I saw prp at a game - I have no idea what he drove, and I'm pretty sure he's not making money hosting this place)
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Put it to you this way - you're the boss that got out of the Rolls. Your employee comes up to you and says "hey, you're making too much. I want more - and I demand to see your net income and net worth." What are you going to do? If you say anything other than "I'd tell the employee to shove off", you're lying.
Exactly. I don't care if my employees want to see my books...even if I've asked them to take a pay cut. "Your choice, Mr. Employee...work here, or not. And, if you don't, someone will gladly take your job."
I'm not saying the NFL owner's are golden here...just that to the players, it shouldn't matter. It boils down to....do you want a job? The job you love? The job you get paid very damned well to do, most of you even with an 18% pay cut?
Maybe I've missed it in this thread, but does anyone know the average player salary?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Avg. from 2009, from what a quick search told me, the average salary was $770,000.00 - but that didn't include signing bonuses, etc. One place I checked said the average (including bonuses) was $1.8 million.
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Is it actual pay cut, or is it that every year the contracts grow by a certain percent, and the owners are asking that the increase is reduced? It seems every year the number one pick's salary increases by a certain percent. The veteran salaries are based off of this also, that's why many in the union don't want a rookie cap set.
Throwing out a "18 percent pay cut" sure sounds like the way government spins taxes.
I have to laugh at a player who makes about 2 million a year worrying about a pension. How about hiring a financial advisor since you know your career is only at most averaging five years. The crap about it being dangerous for their health, they should do my job. I'm in a dangerous situation everyday, many times one slip and my life could end or I could be handicapped for the rest of my life. Using the toll it takes on their body is a garbage arguement, climb around on steel lugging tools 100 feet in the air, and see what a toll it takes on your body.
#gmstrong
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I'm not saying the NFL owner's are golden here...
I agree and I don't think people are trying to insinuate any thing of the sort here.
I could care less how much money any business owner makes as long as I am getting a fair deal.
Like buying a new car. Who cares how rich the owner of the dealership is, so long as I am satisfied with the purchase and availability of what I might be looking for. That's the bottom line.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Is it actual pay cut, or is it that every year the contracts grow by a certain percent, and the owners are asking that the increase is reduced? It seems every year the number one pick's salary increases by a certain percent. The veteran salaries are based off of this also, that's why many in the union don't want a rookie cap set.
Good question.
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Throwing out a "18 percent pay cut" sure sounds like the way government spins taxes.
You mean, like, saying not increasing taxes is actually a spending cut?
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I have to laugh at a player who makes about 2 million a year worrying about a pension. How about hiring a financial advisor since you know your career is only at most averaging five years. The crap about it being dangerous for their health, they should do my job. I'm in a dangerous situation everyday, many times one slip and my life could end or I could be handicapped for the rest of my life. Using the toll it takes on their body is a garbage arguement, climb around on steel lugging tools 100 feet in the air, and see what a toll it takes on your body.
Throw in the fact that the average nfl career is 3 point something years. Why do these guys feel they should be paid like kings for those years they play, AND get a pension for the rest of their life?
Oh, that's right - because the owners are richer - so the players think they deserve more for choosing to do what they do. It's the american way anymore - "hey, that guy has more and that's not fair."
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Again - no one is forcing the players to play. If they don't want to, someone else will step in. If that happens, there won't be a huge drop off. Face it, the difference between the AVERAGE nfl player and the guy that would sub for him isn't huge
If you honestly believe that your nuts..lol. As crazy said if this were the case then the Browns wouldn't be going on a drought of one playoff appearance in 13 years. Heck if this were the case then UFL players would be every bit as good as NFL guys and the AVERAGE fan (something I'll get into later) would be happy as heck to watch a lesser talent play..........say replacing Clarrett for AP.
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lso, I don't go to games, or watch on tv, to see a "player", I go or watch to see a team.
I don't either. The problem is that we aren't average fans........if we were we wouldn't be talking on a Browns board at 10PM EST. Average fans on the other hand watch games for the players. How many people you know were rooting for the Packers or Steelers based on player X?? I live in an area where there isn't an NFL team (which is most of the country actually) and they root for teams that have their favorite player. Athletics has always and will always be based on individual performances because in essence that is what it is........whether a team sport or not.
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They can always find another job, right?
I swear, some people act as if the players are forced into the game.
Therein lies your problem in diagnosing the situation. Your pretending that your situation is remotely close to theirs.This isn't YOUR job. You and I are "ham and eggers"........nine to five bums. These guys are among the most talented people in the world. The laws that govern you or I do not govern people like this. Their talent is so unique that they DO have a place in working as more of a "partner" with their bosses than you or I could ever have. If they didn't the owners would tell them to ... off and work for 1000 dollars a week or they would hire BigWillie and arch...lol. The pool of people who can replace them belongs to the same union (minus maybe 100 people in the world that haven't gotten their shot yet). It sucks that we aren't the beautiful people, but we aren't. Their market value is among the highest in the world, and our market value isn't in the same planet as theirs. They aren't replaceable............we are. If you don't believe me heck ask the owners how well that replacement football went for them awhile back..lol.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Many things, but most importantly the money a player can make.
Not to mention their exposure, there medical capability and if they are vested, a pension.
Oh yeah let's not for get the privilege to play for a league with the legacy the NFL has built.
Why can a player make more money in the NFL?? Why is the NFL eager to pay the money the other leagues can't/won't?? Could it be that the quality of player in the NFL is much more than that of the other leagues??...hmmm. The legacy that is the NFL was built by former players as well as the owners.......so the players have a say on the direction of the league.
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The players time of bleeding the league is over and they are not happy.
They have been receiving around 50% or more of the revenue of late and that is simply not prudent business and ensuring the future of this League.
On a lot of this we agree. Sixty percent of revenue going to salary is way too high.........the owners are dead right on this one. However, if you believe that the teams/owners wouldn't survive another 100 years on a 60-40 split your just wrong. The owners aren't going broke, but rather don't have enough capital to venture into new things like building stadiums and the like........and I agree with them........60% doesn't leave them enough capital to invest in new money making ventures. I just don't like it when they spew crap about losing money........because it's crap. This is the real reason they won't open their books. Again I agree with them in principle on this point, but I get annoyed when they act like they are going broke
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The only ones getting screwed here are the fans as per usual.
Yep...........because all of the stadium, salary cost, and the like will get past on to us. I honestly get sick of the whole thing when you consider that reasonable people should be able to divide 9 billion freaking dollars to everyone's liking.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Legend
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Again - no one is forcing the players to play. If they don't want to, someone else will step in. If that happens, there won't be a huge drop off. Face it, the difference between the AVERAGE nfl player and the guy that would sub for him isn't huge
If you honestly believe that your nuts..lol. As crazy said if this were the case then the Browns wouldn't be going on a drought of one playoff appearance in 13 years. Heck if this were the case then UFL players would be every bit as good as NFL guys and the AVERAGE fan (something I'll get into later) would be happy as heck to watch a lesser talent play..........say replacing Clarrett for AP.
I think people are taking my words wrong here. What I'm saying is if all these "talented" players aren't playing, there are people that are almost as talented that will take their place. And if the almost as talented fill up the teams - hey, no problem. I love to watch high school football. I love to watch Toledo, Bowling Green, Defiance college - those guys aren't pro players. But they still play a good game. I'm not saying the pros aren't good - I'm saying if they all sit, good replacements are out there.
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They can always find another job, right?
I swear, some people act as if the players are forced into the game.
Therein lies your problem in diagnosing the situation. Your pretending that your situation is remotely close to theirs.This isn't YOUR job. You and I are "ham and eggers"........nine to five bums. These guys are among the most talented people in the world. The laws that govern you or I do not govern people like this. Their talent is so unique that they DO have a place in working as more of a "partner" with their bosses than you or I could ever have. If they didn't the owners would tell them to ... off and work for 1000 dollars a week or they would hire BigWillie and arch...lol. The pool of people who can replace them belongs to the same union (minus maybe 100 people in the world that haven't gotten their shot yet). It sucks that we aren't the beautiful people, but we aren't. Their market value is among the highest in the world, and our market value isn't in the same planet as theirs. They aren't replaceable............we are. If you don't believe me heck ask the owners how well that replacement football went for them awhile back..lol.
They are replaceable. There is no doubt in my mind they are replaceable.
I do not have a problem diagnosing the problem. If every single player in the nfl quit - within 6 months the nfl would have new players that were almost as good. There are a few stars that would be missed, no doubt.
You act as if the players are on a pedestal. That's part of the players problem in my opinion. They ARE replaceable. It's the NFL. Players come and go every year. The league just stays.
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Why can a player make more money in the NFL?? Why is the NFL eager to pay the money the other leagues can't/won't?? Could it be that the quality of player in the NFL is much more than that of the other leagues??...hmmm. The legacy that is the NFL was built by former players as well as the owners.......so the players have a say on the direction of the league.
Of coarse the NFL has/had the best players. They are the most established, they pay the most, that's something that has grown over time. There would never be a League today if the NFL started off sharing the revenue they do today with the players. I think the players today have been far better compensated then the players who helped build this League. I think those players deserve to be compensated to a better degree.
How many jobs have the NFL created not including the players? How many stadiums have been built? How many more jobs have they created advertising their brand in the textile industry a lone?
If they do not come to a compromise and the owners hire replacements the talent level will not be the same, but give it two or three years and you will find that the best football players will be playing in the NFL once again, even if the present stars decided to retire and never return. We keep making more.
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For you to say the players have a right to demand something is disingenuous.
The players are not demanding anything. The owners are saying, "Take a huge pay cut and work an extra 2 weeks to boot".
The players, in response, are saying, "Well, if you're actually losing money let us see the books and if it's true then we can talk".
Not sure why guys like you cannot understand this.
But I'm pretty sure if you had lived 100 years ago you'd be running a sweat shop and telling your employees, "Work your 80 hours, take home your $8.00 and stfu". Because that's pretty much the only argument you've thrown out on this topic. 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I'm sure that those who worked in sweat shops, 80 hours/week, in abject poverty and misery, (or currently work under such conditions, or worse, overseas today) well, I'm sure that those people appreciate the comparison to NFL players.  Personally I could not care less how this works out, as long as it works out before next season is supposed to start. I don't care if the millionaires get a little more .... or if the billionaires get a little more. I would not mind an 18 game season ..... but that's not a must have either. I would think that a firm salary floor along with expansion of the rosters would help with the players side ..... and a lowered total revenues in the calculation would help the owners ..... so I hope they just get it done. Beyond that it really doesn't matter all that much to me. Just play football when you're supposed to and I don't really give half a damn about the rest.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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For you to say the players have a right to demand something is disingenuous.
The players are not demanding anything. The owners are saying, "Take a huge pay cut and work an extra 2 weeks to boot".
The players, in response, are saying, "Well, if you're actually losing money let us see the books and if it's true then we can talk".
Not sure why guys like you cannot understand this.
But I'm pretty sure if you had lived 100 years ago you'd be running a sweat shop and telling your employees, "Work your 80 hours, take home your $8.00 and stfu". Because that's pretty much the only argument you've thrown out on this topic.
craz...pretty good summation...
The owners agreed to the 2006 deal and I have not heard anything about the NFL going broke or franchises going under during the last 4 years.
Now that negotiations on a new contract have started, suddenly the owners are crying poverty...but they won't open their books to confirm it.
Goodell just wrote an oped, essentially a PR move, negotiating via the media, laying out the major issues
web page
Roger is attempting to take advantage of the world and national economic issues, pretending the state of the NFL is similar..but the owners will present no proof to back up the NFL's poverty.
To cry poverty due to the 2006 agreement but not be willing to prove your poverty by showing the Union your books...you have to admit, it would be foolish for the Union to just take the owners word for it..wouldn't it?
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