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web page House Democrats reject tax plan without changes By CHARLES BABINGTON and STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press – 19 mins ago
WASHINGTON - House Democrats voted Thursday to reject President Barack Obama's tax deal with Republicans in its current form, but it was unclear how significantly the package might need to be changed.
By voice vote in a closed caucus meeting, Democrats passed a resolution saying the tax package should not come to the House floor for consideration as written, even though no formal House bill has been drafted. Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., introduced the resolution.
Said Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas: "If it's take it or leave it, we'll leave it."
The vote, which came after many lawmakers chanted "just say no," will at least temporarily stall what had seemed to be a grudging Democratic movement toward the tax package.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said in a statement that House Democrats share Obama's "commitment to providing the middle class with a tax cut to grow the economy and create jobs." She noted that a House-passed bill, which Republicans blocked in the Senate, did not include "a bonus tax cut to millionaires and billionaires."
"We will continue discussions with the president and our Democratic and Republican colleagues in the days ahead to improve the proposal before it comes to the House floor for a vote," the California Democrat said.
The voice vote in the caucus was quite lopsided. Rep. Shelley Berkley of Nevada told reporters afterward that "one person voted against it. That would be me."
Asked what happens next, Rep. James Clyburn of South Carolina, the No. 3 person in the Democratic leadership, said, "I don't know."
White House spokesman Robert Gibbs brushed off the setback, predicting the package "will get passed" before year's end. He said House members and senators are not going to go back home without taking action, knowing that their constituents would face a tax hike on Jan. 1 if so.
Speaking earlier Thursday at a White House event promoting American exports, Obama said the vote will determine whether the economy "moves forward or backward." The president again pressed Congress to pass the agreement, saying it has the potential to create millions of jobs. He said if it fails, Americans would see smaller paychecks and fewer jobs.
But Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., said "the jury is still out" on the measure's enactment because many Democrats are furious over an estate tax provision.
Obama agreed to exempt the first $5 million of a deceased person's estate, and to tax the rest at 35 percent. Congressional Democrats had expected a 45 percent tax rate on anything above $3.5 million. Without congressional action, the estate tax will revert to an even higher rate: 55 percent on estates valued above $1 million. That should have strengthened Obama's hand when negotiating with Republicans, Van Hollen said.
Some Democrats have reluctantly embraced the tax package, which would let rich and poor Americans keep Bush-era tax cuts that were scheduled to expire this month. Even so, 54 House Democrats wrote a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi saying they're opposing the deal.
Led by Rep. Peter Welch of Vermont, they said they were against "acceding to Republican demands to extend the Bush tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires."
"We're paying a king's ransom," Welch said in an interview. "We didn't need to and couldn't afford to."
The 54 Democrats, by themselves, would not be enough to block the package in the House, depending on how much support it gets from Republicans.
After Obama publicly defended the plan for a third day Wednesday, and Vice President Joe Biden met with Democratic lawmakers in the Capitol for a second day, several Democrats predicted the measure will pass, mainly because of extensive Republican support.
Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., predicted the tax cut compromise "will be passed by virtually all the Republicans and a minority of Democrats." He said he would vote against it.
Obama said more congressional Democrats would climb aboard as they studied details of the year-end measure.
The package is expected to cost about $900 billion over two years, all added to the federal deficit.
Gibbs said the final cost isn't known yet, but he offered the first estimate from the White House: a total bill of roughly $750 billion to the upper $800 billion-range over two years.
As the White House lobbies for votes, it is also trying to rally Republican support in the Senate for another priority, the ratification of a nuclear arms treaty with Russia. Gibbs flatly rejected the idea that there was any horsetrading of votes involving those two measures.
Raising the direst alarm yet, his administration warned fellow Democrats on Wednesday that if they defeat the tax plan, they could jolt the nation back into recession.
Larry Summers, Obama's chief economic adviser, told reporters that if the measure isn't passed soon, it will "materially increase the risk the economy would stall out and we would have a double-dip" recession. That put the White House in the unusual position of warning its own party's lawmakers they could be to blame for calamitous consequences if they go against the president.
With many House and Senate Republicans signaling their approval of the tax cut plan, the White House's comments were aimed mainly at House Democrats who feel Obama went too far in yielding to Republicans' demands for continued income tax cuts and lower estate taxes for the wealthy.
Obama says the compromise was necessary because Republicans were prepared to let everyone's taxes rise and to block the extension of unemployment benefits for jobless Americans if they didn't get much of what they wanted.
Economists say the recent recession officially ended in June 2009. But with unemployment at 9.8 percent, millions remain out of work or fearful of losing ground economically, and the notion of the nation falling back into a recession would strike many as chilling. It also could rattle markets and investors.
The deal Obama crafted with Senate Republican leaders would prevent the scheduled Dec. 31 expiration of all the Bush administration's tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003, even though Obama had often promised to end the cuts for the highest earners.
House Democrats, who will lose their majority in January, still hold a 255-179 edge in the current Congress. To pass a big bill with mostly Republican votes would mark a dramatic departure from recent battles, such as the health care overhaul, which was enacted with virtually no GOP support in either chamber.
Passage of Obama's plan seems more assured in the Senate, where numerous Democrats have agreed that the president had little choice in making the compromises with Republicans. Still, Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he and colleagues are considering possible changes, and action could come within days.
___
AP White House Correspondent Ben Feller contributed to this report.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Wonderful,....cut off your nose to spite yourself.
Politics at its best.
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I don't even care what their reason is... I just find it hilarious. After all of the posturing that they've done up to this point, they turn around and do the exact same garbage.
I am kinda happy that the deal was canceled, though.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Title of the article from the link reads...
"House Democrats reject tax plan without changes"
Don't know what article you are reading... 
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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And do you know what deal it is that got rejected? Tax breaks in exchange for unemployment benefits extensions. Don't know what you've been reading
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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that's unfair Prp. that part was in the body of the article and not in the Title. you don't expect people to read beyond the title, do you?
#gmstrong
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I guess the RRs thought the Dems would rubber stamp the deal that adds over a trillion dollars to our nations debt.
Guess repubs are not conservatives now that the election is over...they never were and never will be...GOP spends more than Dems, imo.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
Title of the article from the link reads...
"House Democrats reject tax plan without changes"
Don't know what article you are reading...
It's called creative interpretation ... something one can do when they don't just copy-paste like a mindless zombie.
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Quote:
I guess Obama thought the Dems would rubber stamp the deal that adds over a trillion dollars to our nations debt.
Fixed!
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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They're all a bunch of babies on ego trips. I say we fire them all.
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Quote:
She noted that a House-passed bill, which Republicans blocked in the Senate, did not include "a bonus tax cut to millionaires and billionaires."
This woman (Nancy Pelosi) is an absolute moron.... as are all of the democrats that are playing the class envy game.. painting small business owners with the same brush as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet... if this woman had an ounce of decency, which we already know she does not, she would be ashamed of herself.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
zombie
"Zombie"....I got tossed for a week for using the P word when referring to someone's "girth"...
Just trying to get an idea of the acceptable names we can call one another...lol
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
I got tossed for a week for using the P word ...
I would be offended if someone called me "Pelosi" for any reason.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
zombie
"Zombie"....I got tossed for a week for using the P word when referring to someone's "girth"...
Just trying to get an idea of the acceptable names we can call one another...lol
Who said he was talking about you?
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
I got tossed for a week for using the P word ...
I would be offended if someone called me "Pelosi" for any reason.
It wasn't even that bad...really...cost "me" a week though.
Just trying to get an idea of the acceptable names we can call each other... 
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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It's kinda funny, I thought the deal was a dumb one,, so, I'm happy that the dems voted it down..
I'm still very worried about those on unemployment that haven't been able to find work.. those folks are the ones we should all feel for...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
I guess the RRs thought the Dems would rubber stamp the deal that adds over a trillion dollars to our nations debt.
Guess repubs are not conservatives now that the election is over...they never were and never will be...GOP spends more than Dems, imo.
I don't know if you know this, but this is still the same congress that was there before.. the new congress won't be sworn in until January...
And the dems stance has NOTHING to do with the debt, it has to do with sticking it to those evil rich people... like the guy that owns the auto garage that works on my car..
yebat' Putin
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Don't ever call yourself a "conservative"...
Like I said, the GOP is about to add more than a trillion dollars to the debt that your kids and grandkids will have to pay off...(if you have any).
Republicans have no problem borrowing more from China to fund their "elephant earmarks"
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
Don't ever call yourself a "conservative"...
Like I said, the GOP is about to add more than a trillion dollars to the debt that your kids and grandkids will have to pay off...(if you have any).
Republicans have no problem borrowing more from China to fund their "elephant earmarks"
Have you even paid attention to how much Obama and the democrats added to the debt or are you just going to stick your head in the sand?
If I recall, you complained about the republicans voting down unemployment extensions in the past. They voted it down because it would add to the debt. Now, here we are, democrats doing the same thing you ridiculed republicans for and you give them a free pass.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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House Democrats blocked this bill which included unemployment extensions.
Your spin is ridiculously inept.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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you realize it was Obama pushing this legislation, right? so, is Obama evil too?
and if you read the thread on this very subject you will see that the board here universally hated this bill (Dem's, Repub's, and all in the middle alike)
#gmstrong
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<sarcasm>
How's come you can't follow ? The GOP did this ! Can't you read ,...?
<sarcasm off>
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zombie
"Zombie"....I got tossed for a week for using the P word when referring to someone's "girth"...
Just trying to get an idea of the acceptable names we can call one another...lol
I heard differently. Are you making things up again?
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Opps, Mibad. My sarcasm detector broke, and K-Mart was all out because the shipment from China was late ...... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I got tossed for a week for using the P word ...
I would be offended if someone called me "Pelosi" for any reason.
It wasn't even that bad...really...cost "me" a week though.
Just trying to get an idea of the acceptable names we can call each other...
I think we all know what names are acceptable. False accusations will get you tossed every time, though.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Opps, Mibad.
My sarcasm detector broke, and K-Mart was all out because the shipment from China was late ......
I thought K-Mart went bankrupt. There are still K-Marts out there?
#gmstrong
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Yep. Just got home from one after going to yet another doctor's.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yep. Just got home from one after going to yet another doctor's.
hope they hooked you up with better med's for your back.
and thanks for the info. I've gotta make sure to visit one next time I'm in town. maybe i'll stay in Berea to help that out (there used to be one on Engle/Bagley...maybe it's still there)
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Opps, Mibad.
My sarcasm detector broke, and K-Mart was all out because the shipment from China was late ......
I thought K-Mart went bankrupt. There are still K-Marts out there?
K-mart was bought up by Sears I thought?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
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Opps, Mibad.
My sarcasm detector broke, and K-Mart was all out because the shipment from China was late ......
I thought K-Mart went bankrupt. There are still K-Marts out there?
K-mart was bought up by Sears I thought?
Other way around.
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zombie
"Zombie"....I got tossed for a week for using the P word when referring to someone's "girth"...
Just trying to get an idea of the acceptable names we can call one another...lol
I doubt it was just for that....it was a combination of things.
You are a irritant. A troll IMO who simply seeks to irritate others.
I don't mind opposing opinions. I actually appreciate them to be honest, but if I was in charge, I would have booted you forever.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Don't ever call yourself a "conservative"...
Why not?
Quote:
Like I said, the GOP is about to add more than a trillion dollars to the debt that your kids and grandkids will have to pay off...(if you have any).
Adding a trillion dollars.. to what? What is the amount they are adding to and who is responsible for it?
Quote:
Republicans have no problem borrowing more from China to fund their "elephant earmarks"
Show me the earmarks.
yebat' Putin
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That has to sting after the President talking about how wrong it is of 'hostage takers' hurting the American people to get their own way...
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Opps, Mibad.
My sarcasm detector broke, and K-Mart was all out because the shipment from China was late ......
I thought K-Mart went bankrupt. There are still K-Marts out there?
K-mart was bought up by Sears I thought?
Other way around.
Yup, just checked,, that's the way it was.. 2004 was the year. Kmart holdings bought Sears., Then Kmart holdings changed it's name to Sears Holdings..
Thanks,, I got it now
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It is a disgusting piece of crap legislation that adds a 700 to 900 billion to the deficit, whithout paying for a dime of the tax cuts.
It is a simulus without a stimulus.
I am glad that someone saw it for what is was.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Title of the article from the link reads...
"House Democrats reject tax plan without changes"
Don't know what article you are reading...
So when you labeled a thread "GOP blocks extension of benefits for jobless Americans, "again"" .. You must have meant Senate GOP blocks the extension.. and furthermore the title on you article had no mention of GOP, Washington, Senate, or anything it was "Millions may lose jobless benefits as holidays loom"
Democrats rejecting the bill is the same thing as blocking it just as senate republicans did with unemployment benefits..
And now you are circling your wagon around that idea the Republicans are raising the deficit by offering tax breaks, which is exactly what the Democrats were doing when they want to extend jobless benefits even further than the 26 weeks that employee's through their employers paid for.
You cannot have it both ways... You cannot call tax breaks evil because they are adding to the deficit and not call handing out money to the unemployed adding to the deficit as well.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Quote:
I guess the RRs thought the Dems would rubber stamp the deal that adds over a trillion dollars to our nations debt.
Guess repubs are not conservatives now that the election is over...they never were and never will be...GOP spends more than Dems, imo.
You mean the deal Obama made? I see you omitted that part.
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Quote:
Title of the article from the link reads...
"House Democrats reject tax plan without changes"
Don't know what article you are reading...
So when you labeled a thread "GOP blocks extension of benefits for jobless Americans, "again"" .. You must have meant Senate GOP blocks the extension.. and furthermore the title on you article had no mention of GOP, Washington, Senate, or anything it was "Millions may lose jobless benefits as holidays loom"
Democrats rejecting the bill is the same thing as blocking it just as senate republicans did with unemployment benefits..
And now you are circling your wagon around that idea the Republicans are raising the deficit by offering tax breaks, which is exactly what the Democrats were doing when they want to extend jobless benefits even further than the 26 weeks that employee's through their employers paid for.
You cannot have it both ways... You cannot call tax breaks evil because they are adding to the deficit and not call handing out money to the unemployed adding to the deficit as well.
Forgot to mention that the tax breaks that the democrats also are rejecting are also tied along with the unemployment benefits...
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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And.... it's going to pass now. What did the trick you ask? The Dems got more freaking spending added. web page Way cleared for tax cut bill; energy breaks added By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent – 2 hrs 5 mins ago
WASHINGTON - The White House and key lawmakers cleared the way Thursday night for swift Senate action to avert a Jan. 1 spike in income taxes for nearly all Americans, agreeing to extend breaks for ethanol and other forms of alternative energy as part of the deal.
Tax provisions aimed at increasing production of hybrid automobiles, biodiesel fuel, energy-efficient homes, coal and energy-efficient household appliances would be extended through the end of 2011 under the bill.
Debate on the expanded measure began almost immediately. While there is no precise timetable for passage, a test vote was set for Monday afternoon that appears likely to demonstrate overwhelmingly support for the legislation, which supporters say would help accelerate a sluggish recovery from recession.
The events unfolded as the White House predicted that the agreement between President Barack Obama and top Republicans would clear by year's end - even though House Democrats voted Thursday not to allow it to reach the floor without changes to scale back tax relief for the rich.
"If it's take it or leave it, we'll leave it," said Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas, after a closed-door meeting in which rank-and-file Democrats chanted, "Just say no."
"The deal will get passed," said presidential press secretary Robert Gibbs. There were no predictions to the contrary among senior Democrats on either side of the Capitol.
As announced by Obama on Monday, the deal would extend tax breaks at all income levels that are due to expire on Jan. 1, renew a program of jobless benefits for the long-term unemployed that is due to lapse within days and implement a one-year cut in Social Security taxes.
At the insistence of Republicans, it also includes a more generous estate tax provision. That, in turn, infuriated Democrats already unhappy with Obama for agreeing to extend personal tax cuts at incomes over $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples.
The two-year cost of the plan, estimated at about $850 billion, would further swell record federal deficits.
Despite significant criticism from fellow Democrats, Obama has said the sweeping measure is necessary to help the struggling economy recover from the worst recession in decades. With unemployment at 9.8 percent, a top White House official warned Democratic critics Tuesday they risk sending the economy back into recession if they block the measure.
In the Senate, the emergence of bipartisan legislation also indicated progress for the White House and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., toward possible year-end passage of other major items on their agenda.
Obama has made ratification of a new arms control treaty with Russia a top priority. The White House is also pressing Reid to try once more to end the Pentagon's 17-year ban on openly gay members of the military.
Republicans have vowed to block action on all legislation until a tax bill and a year-end government spending bill have been resolved.
Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell has said he expects most of his rank and file to support the huge tax bill. Prominent House Republicans back it, too, although they have generally refrained from speaking out at a time when doing so would divert attention from the spectacle of Obama at odds with lawmakers of his own party.
Rep. John Boehner of Ohio, in line to become House speaker when Republicans take power in January, "supports the framework as agreed to by" Obama and McConnell and spoke with the president about it over the weekend, a spokesman said Thursday.
Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, whose views on economic issues are influential among House Republicans, also swung behind it. "While I have concerns with some specific aspects of the plan, I support the proposed framework to avert further economic hardship and provide a first step to restore the foundations for sustained growth and job creation," he said in an interview.
Among the energy tax provisions added was an extension of the current 45-cent per gallon subsidy for ethanol, at a cost to the Treasury estimated at nearly $5 billion. The issue is of particular interest to lawmakers from Midwestern states with grain crops.
The changes did nothing to ease the opposition among some critics, though. Liberal Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., attacked the measure's tax breaks for the wealthy as a threat to the middle class.
The energy-related tax provisions will presumably increase support for the measure in the House, officials said Democrats there are eager to see a scaling back of a provision that would allow estates as large as $5 million escape taxation.
Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said, "That was a bridge too far for many of our members" already upset about Obama's decision to bow to Republican demands for extending tax cuts on individuals making over $200,000 and couples earning more than $250,000.
Under the estate tax provision, the first $5 million of a couple's estate could pass to heirs without taxation, and an additional $5 million for the spouse. The balance would be subject to a 35 percent tax rate.
According to a Tax Policy Center estimate based on census data, that would mean only about 3,500 estates would be liable for taxes in 2011, out of more than 2.5 million forecast to be filed. Barring legislation, about 44,000 estates would be subjected to taxation in 2011, the groups said.
Some Democratic officials suggested a relatively minor change to the estate tax portion of the Obama-GOP deal might assuage critics of the plan. If accepted, however, it could come at a price in the form of additional concessions to Republicans, several officials said.
Vice President Joe Biden has told Democrats in closed-door meetings this week that they are free to oppose the agreement but it might unravel if they do, according to officials familiar with the discussions.
Whatever the disagreement over the economic wisdom of renewing tax cuts for the wealthy, the legislation also marks the emergence of a new era of divided government following midterm elections in which the Republicans won power in the House and gained seats in the Senate.
Privately, several House Democrats complained that the White House had not consulted them while negotiating a deal with McConnell.
The House passed a measure last week that would have let the tax cuts lapse at higher incomes, but Senate Republicans blocked it on Saturday - with the knowledge the president had already agreed he was ready to sign a measure that was more to their liking.
Democrats and Republicans have spent two years gridlocked over the question of extending the expiring tax cuts, and Obama has characterized his compromise with Republicans as a temporary, two-year concession on a policy he opposes.
House and Senate Democrats debated privately in the weeks before the elections whether to hold votes on the issue. They decided not to at that time after lawmakers who were seeking re-election said they would prefer not to have go on record if it meant Republicans would attack them for raising taxes on small businesses.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,709
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,709 |
At least some common sense is returning to the table.
I don't mind paying taxes and agree the better off you are, the more you should pay. that is the right thing to do.
But estate taxes are down right sinful.
That money has already been taxed when it was earned.
55% on estates of a million or more is a sickening thought. it doesn't take that much effort to accumulate a million dollar estate over a lifetime.
Those aren't the rich folks who lead the high life for decades. Those are upper middle class folks who saved and worked their asses off for 40-50 years.
I think estate taxes should be zero on all estates under 5 million...then start looking at some sort of tax, but even then, way less then the 35% mentioned.....I am thinking a gradual scale going up to 10% for a guy like Bill Gates.
The problem in this country isn't revenue. It is spending. We could cut out all sorts off spending, and never touch social services.
Forigen aid as an example. Sorry folks, we just don't have the money anymore. we have to take care of the home front for a while.
The defense dept. is bloated. I am all for a strong country, but somewhere in there are billions we could trim. The problem is nobody wants the base closed that is in their town.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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