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Let's play "Who said that"... Quote:
"We knew it was going to be tough going against the Pittsburgh Steelers. I didn't know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts as well."
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"Penalties, as much as anything, were the story of the game, and that's unfortunate"
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"It might be the first time I've said that in my entire life."
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Legend
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KoB, if the league agreed on 9 of those call, ,whining or not, the man has a point..
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Damanshot
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Quote:
Let's play "Who said that"...
Quote:
"We knew it was going to be tough going against the Pittsburgh Steelers. I didn't know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts as well."
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"Penalties, as much as anything, were the story of the game, and that's unfortunate"
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"It might be the first time I've said that in my entire life."
thats right, and guess what..Holmgren got in trouble for those statements and had a meeting with refs behind closed doors and apologized for those statements and even stated he should have never said them because it was poor sportsmanship
even Holmgren admitted he was wrong...
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Point is, if Rob Ryan is a whiner for complaining about the officials in a game, what does that make our team president? Also, I believe you are incorrect...I don't recall him ever apologizing for his comments. In fact, I believe he said he wouldn't apologize for them.
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KoB, if the league agreed on 9 of those call, ,whining or not, the man has a point..
thats not the point....the point is he should have kept his trap shut to the media out of respect.....whining to the media about "no calls" makes you look like a joke.
now the next game we play with those refs....you think their not going to have Ryan's statements to the media in their heads?
Ryan disrespected the ref crew in that game....by saying this stuff to the world....
Refs play a big part in the outcome of games in this league...maybe next time we play they will turn a blind eye on purpose.....good luck proving it.
Ryan really needs to learn to keep his mouth shut....its not productive or helpful to say these kinds of things...sometimes things don't go your way, but there is a right and rong way of handling this.
Ryan should have sent the tapes to the league office and kept his mouth shut and let it be handed by the official channels...there is no reason to air this in the media and make us look like fools.
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Point is, if Rob Ryan is a whiner for complaining about the officials in a game, what does that make our team president? Also, I believe you are incorrect...I don't recall him ever apologizing for his comments. In fact, I believe he said he wouldn't apologize for them.
Ok if I am mistaken, that doesn't mean it was right for Holmgren to not apologize for them.
do you believe for 1 second Bill Walsh would have said thos things? No way.Holmgren's mentor would have said:
"there were some calls that didn't go our way, but thats no excuse. we had chances to win that game and just failed to execute" next question
no way Walsh would have ever said what Holmgren did. how about the Bills...they got royally shafted against the Giants and in 1 of the cowboys Super bowls...they got shafted hard by the refs...you didn't hear Marv Levy crying about it.
Yes the Seahawks Super Bowl had some bad calls...horrible calls, I will admit it...but the Seahawks blew a few opportunities to win that game..Jeremy Stevens dropping a pass that would have put them on what the Steelers 3 or 4 yard line?
The Seahawks played bad as a team too....and the play calling in that game was suspect...in the 1st half the NFL MVP Alexander was running pretty well against the Steelers...why the Hawks abandoned the run and their MVP in the 2nd half is beyond me...they almost abandoned the run all together it was stupid...considering they was being successful running the ball and the game wasn't out of reach
Alexander had 20 carries for 95 yards...avg 4.75 yards per carry....why quit running the ball with the NFL MVP in the biggest game of the year with a championship on the line?
again the refs blew some calls, but the Seahawks as a team came out flat and played like garbage....the game should have never even been close...the Seahawks had the NFL best OL and should have mandhanded the Steelers Front 7, but they were not given the chance to due to pass happy play calling
Alexander should have had at least 30-35 carries in that game...he was the NFL MVP...ther eis no reason to not use your best player enough....if Holmgren had it to do all over again...i bet he would have given the ball to Alexander more then he did....he should have forced the Steelers to sell out 100% on the run with the MVP and then beat them over the top in single coverage.
the Seahawks and Holmgren have much more blame for that loss then the Refs...thye had opportunities to win and blew it, and terrible play calling and not riding the horse that got you there sealed there fate....The Cowboys never got pass happy in the bowl with Emmit Smith...smith was given the ball and they fed him the ball...the Seahawks didn't
their failure to put the bal in the hands of the NFL MVP is what cost them the bowl...like it or not Holmgren you know it.....not giving the NFL MVP the darn rock is why you lost...
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there is no reason to air this in the media and make us look like fools.  I am in a great mood and it is christmas eve so I will refrain from my usual smart ass comment that would likely get me banned again.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 12/24/10 03:35 PM.
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And my question to you is, did that make Mike Holmgren a whiner and a joke like it did for Rob Ryan? If so, how do you feel about our team being led by a man who is a joke? If not, what criteria are you using to distinguish the two?
This is not meant to be a personal attack; I just want to make sure that you're calling Rob Ryan a whiner and a joke because of his comments, and not because you've made it abundantly clear that you don't like him or his defense.
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Quote:
And my question to you is, did that make Mike Holmgren a whiner and a joke like it did for Rob Ryan? If so, how do you feel about our team being led by a man who is a joke? If not, what criteria are you using to distinguish the two?
This is not meant to be a personal attack; I just want to make sure that you're calling Rob Ryan a whiner and a joke because of his comments, and not because you've made it abundantly clear that you don't like him or his defense.
i am not saying Ryan is a joke...i am saying he is "acting like" a joke
We lost the Bengals game because we played like garbage as a team...Ryan should have taken the high road and just not even mentioned the officials...the NFL has procedures for sending in tape and dealing with this sort of thing...there was no reason for ryan to air this type of dirty laundry in the media..if mistakes were made let the NFL office handle it.
as for Holmgren, those statements concering the Super Bowl are statements he will have to live with. do i think Holmgren is a joke? No...do I think holmgren could have handled the situation differently? yes....however its too late for Holmgren to do anything about it now...h eused to be on the competition commitee...the best thing for Holmgren now would be to just forget about it.
If he had things to do all over though, he probably would not have said what he said. however, after losing a super Bowl sometimes emotions get the best of you.
comparing Holmgren statements and Ryan's statements however is unfair...Ryan made statements about a Bengals game with a team that don't even have a shot at the playoffs...Holmgren's statements were made in a super bowl championship game he was involved in...also that was Holmgren's 3rd Super bowl appearance, he gets a bit more slack in that regard compared to Ryan who has never even been a Head coach.
Look im big on sportsmanship allright? I was disappointed when Holmgren made those statements because as a Bill Walsh disciple who stems from the Paul Brown tree i expected better behavior out of Holmgren...i expected Holmgren to take the high road and claim his team didn't do enough to win(which they had opportunities they blew in that game)
Everyone in the media knew the refs blew the game...there was no reason for Holmgren to make the statements he made...it was poor judgement, but i'll tack it up as emotions getting the best of Holmgren when a championship was on the line.
as i said sportsmanship is big to me, and I see blaming the refs as a poor showing of sportsmanship....but i also understand Holmgren's frustration at the time and he did have some justification for feeling the way he did.
I just believe coaches should take the high road...Ryan just should have said "We as a team just didn't get the job done...we just didn't play as well as we would have liked" and let it go at that.
Even though I know and most others know the refs miffed us, at least Ryan was taking the high road and it shows your players that sometimes you just can't win every battle, and sometimes your better just to hold your head high and have your dignity
You don't see Bill Bellichik complain about the Referees do you? when we played the Pats earlier in the year I personally seen about 9 or 10 holds that could have easily been called on us that were not...im sure bill seen it to...you know our OL laying on bunta Cains' back...your telling me thats not a hold? or our guys having handfuls of jersey with elbows out and your telling me we were not holding?
it works both ways
did Bellichik cry to the refs about it? nope...he said his team needs to play better ball and took the high road and let it go at that..
im not saying Ryan doesn't have an argument, im just saying let the NFL front office handle it...he sent in the tape...they agreed, they will handle it...there is no reason for ryan to airs this kinda stuff in the media...its bad for the game...I personally think its a poor showing of sportsmanship
the Bengals overall out played us that day plain and simple..it is what it is
hopefully we can regroup and outplay the Ravens this sunday 
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Greetham: Holmgren Ready To Take Over?
Mike Holmgren's Super Bowl Ring
By Fred Greetham
OBR Reporter
Posted Dec 25, 2010
The OBR's Fred Greetham feels that, if Mike Holmgren wants to coach again, 2011 may be his last opportunity. Here's why Fred thinks that the Big Show may opt to return to the sidelines....
BEREA, Ohio—When Mike Holmgren decided to keep Eric Mangini at the end of the 2009 season, it was largely due to the Browns winning the final four games. The coach in Holmgren told him it was only fair to keep Mangini on after keeping the team together and playing hard after the team started off 1-11. In hindsight, it might have been a version of ‘fool’s gold’ as it might’ve impeded the Browns in their long-term plans.
Personally, I like Eric Mangini as a coach and person, but I see two philosophies on a collision course. Holmgren is used to a high octane type of offense and Mangini is not. After witnessing the Browns offense in 2010, Holmgren has to be frustrated at times. He admitted so in his bye week press conference.
There is no question that Mangini has made the Browns competitive, but in today’s version of the NFL, turnarounds can happen in less than three seasons. The Chiefs had the fourth worst record in the NFL last season and are vying for a playoff spot this year as they currently lead their division with just two games left at 9-5.
Holmgren was asked after the bye week about Mangini’s future and he didn’t offer a vote of confidence to him. By saying everything will be evaluated and it won’t just be on wins and losses, seems to say that Mangini’s job security was in question even then, when the team was 2-5 and coming off the big win over the Saints.
If Holmgren elects to let Mangini go, I still will hold to what I said at the time Holmgren decided to keep Mangini –that is, Holmgren will step in and be the team’s coach in 2011. My feeling was if the Browns were successful in 2010, then Holmgren would look good in the fact that he made the right decision in retaining Mangini.
If things didn’t go well, it would allow Holmgren to step back into the coaching circle. At 62, if Holmgren wants to coach again, it would make sense to do so now. If he were to hire one of his perceived ‘guys’ like Jon Gruden, he would have to give him at the least two to three years to turn the team around and the window for Holmgren to return to the sideline would be getting closer to being closed.
I specifically asked Holmgren at his bye week press conference if he missed coaching and my interpretation was that after dodging the question, he basically, said ‘Yes’. If he wasn’t planning on coaching again with the Browns or elsewhere, he easily could’ve said, ‘No, I am not coaching again. I enjoy going home at 5 every day’.
If the decision is made to fire Mangini, Holmgren taking over would be the smoothest transition for the Browns. He knows the players and he and Tom Heckert will continue to work closely together in procuring talent. Bringing in a new coach from the outside would require more of a transition for the team as the new coach would want his own players and his own system.
Holmgren knows what the current team is made up of and could make subtle changes in the system, without making wholesale changes, keeping continuity.
Team consultant Gil Haskell is ready to be the offensive coordinator and even if Mangini is retained, Haskell could be the guy to take over for Brian Daboll. If Colt McCoy is deemed the franchise quarterback, he is much more suited to run the West Coast offense.
Some have speculated that firing Mangini and hiring a new coach with the impending lockout in 2011 would have the Browns paying for two high priced coaches. If Holmgren is the coach, he’s already on the payroll.
Finally, the Browns brought in Holmgren to be a ‘credible football figure’ and he has largely been behind the scenes. It is time for Holmgren to become much more visible in the transformation of the Browns from a competitive team to an elite team.
Holmgren is the 10th most winning coach in NFL history and has had a winning season in 14 of his 17 seasons at the helm, including 12 playoff berths, three Super Bowl appearances and one Super Bowl title. That sounds very good considering the Browns have had just one playoff appearance since 1999.
Obviously, things can change quickly in two weeks in the NFL and the final two games with the Ravens and Steelers can change the direction of the Browns. Just think what the feeling was after the Browns posted back-to-back triumphs over the Saints and Patriots.
The next couple of weeks will certainly be interesting. But for Browns fans, that’s generally what has come to be expected at this time of year.
This article was originally published on FoxSportsOhio.com
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If the decision is made to fire Mangini, Holmgren taking over would be the smoothest transition for the Browns. He knows the players and he and Tom Heckert will continue to work closely together in procuring talent. Bringing in a new coach from the outside would require more of a transition for the team as the new coach would want his own players and his own system.
Holmgren knows what the current team is made up of and could make subtle changes in the system, without making wholesale changes, keeping continuity.
That's it right there...Holmgren is the key to NOT having any type of rebuild/teardown...
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Team consultant Gil Haskell is ready to be the offensive coordinator and even if Mangini is retained, Haskell could be the guy to take over for Brian Daboll. If Colt McCoy is deemed the franchise quarterback, he is much more suited to run the West Coast offense.
And that right there is what's needed...U name McCoy QB...Bring Haskell down to run the O...One solid FA and Draft and we're a Playoff Contender...I do believe this one's a LOCK...
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Some have speculated that firing Mangini and hiring a new coach with the impending lockout in 2011 would have the Browns paying for two high priced coaches. If Holmgren is the coach, he’s already on the payroll.
And this one's not speculation...It's FACT...Mangini's on the payroll for 2 more years...
Go Browns!!!
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Even if we have another good draft and nab a few good FAs, I certainly don't think playoffs are a lock if for no other reason than the division we are in.
Unfortunately, McCoy is still the 4th best QB in the division and will be until proven otherwise. That does not equate to many wins in the AFC North, IMO.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I think a lot can be done with a real offense. DaBoll gets the "no talent" card, but I'm of the ilk that if he knew how to use what he's got our offense would be a lot more successful.
Of course, I'm also thinking that a new offense of the Holmgren's "let's get out there and score some points" philosophy would be hard for Mangini to oversee since his "play it close to the vest and hope for a chance to win at the end" offensive philosophy is so different. Mangini's conservative in-game offensive decisions don't exactly match-up with it.
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Actually, the WCO is, for the most part, a very conservative offense.
It is a throw short/run after the catch offense. Some have used the running game more than others. Holmgren had this guy in Seattle named Shaun Alexander, and he ran 370 times for 1880 yards, 5.1 yards/carry, and 27 TDs in 2005. Yeah ... in 1 year. Hasselbeck definitely had a nice year that year .... but he averaged 216 yards/game, and threw 24 TDs. That's a really good year, but not a "historic" year.
The weird thing, for a WCO, is that Alexander only caught 15 passes that year.
The Seahawks threw for 3458 yards that year, and ran for 2457 yards. They threw 474 times, and ran 519 times.
The difference is that they had a talented QB in Matt Hasselbeck, and a supremely talented RB having a Hall of Fame year in Shaun Alexander. Talent at key positions makes the difference.
They were also ranked 16th in total defense, and 7th in scoring defense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Actually, the WCO is, for the most part, a very conservative offense.
It is a throw short/run after the catch offense. Some have used the running game more than others. Holmgren had this guy in Seattle named Shaun Alexander, and he ran 370 times for 1880 yards, 5.1 yards/carry, and 27 TDs in 2005. Yeah ... in 1 year. Hasselbeck definitely had a nice year that year .... but he averaged 216 yards/game, and threw 24 TDs. That's a really good year, but not a "historic" year.
The weird thing, for a WCO, is that Alexander only caught 15 passes that year.
The Seahawks threw for 3458 yards that year, and ran for 2457 yards. They threw 474 times, and ran 519 times.
The difference is that they had a talented QB in Matt Hasselbeck, and a supremely talented RB having a Hall of Fame year in Shaun Alexander. Talent at key positions makes the difference.
They were also ranked 16th in total defense, and 7th in scoring defense.
Good points.....I would like to point out that the WCO of old is just that!
That system like all others have to evolve with time as DC find ways to defend them.
Long drives are great if you score, but the longer it takes you to score, then the defense has more chances to cause TO or negative plays.
When Bill Walsh introduced us to the WCO he also had the proper talent for the system to run on all cylinders.
He had Rice and Taylor who could turn a 5 yard pass into a 80 yard TD.
In sort you must still have a big play capability and the ability to score quickly for it to run like a well oiled machine.
Colt McCoy, Hillis and Watson are a few components that I think fit the criteria of what you look for from their respective positions to execute the WCO.
We are still laking a Rice or Taylor.
This brings us to the following question.
IF MH decides to return to the side line as the Head Coach, what happens with our defense? 
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thats not the point....the point is he should have kept his trap shut to the media out of respect.....
Respect for WHO?
The point I was making has nothing to do with if he should have or not have said anything.. The point I was trying to make is, IF THE LEAGUE agree on 9 of those calls, the man has a point...
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Damanshot
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you should get a job with the Cleveland local media. Take a short quote, expand it greatly out of context and fit it into an argument you have futilely been trying to make all season in order to make a coach you don't like look bad.
It's like Tony Grossi is writing on our board. Wait, Tony, is that you? If so, then thank you for helping keep Art out of the HOF. Outside that, you can probably retire as a PD reporter now. thanks.
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Quote:
Quote:
And my question to you is, did that make Mike Holmgren a whiner and a joke like it did for Rob Ryan? If so, how do you feel about our team being led by a man who is a joke? If not, what criteria are you using to distinguish the two?
This is not meant to be a personal attack; I just want to make sure that you're calling Rob Ryan a whiner and a joke because of his comments, and not because you've made it abundantly clear that you don't like him or his defense.
i am not saying Ryan is a joke...
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This guy is a joke
link
My bad.
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I hadn't connected that dot until now but I wouldn't be surprised if he actually is Tony Grossi. Both elicit about the same reaction from me. 
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I am not Tony Grossi, and i don't work for any newspaper LOL
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LINK Players come out in support of Mangini By Nate Ulrich Beacon Journal sports writer POSTED: 10:54 p.m. EST, Dec 27, 2010 BEREA: The Browns' players had resisted answering questions about coach Eric Mangini's future for weeks. On Monday, they changed their tune. Well, at least two key veterans — fullback Lawrence Vickers and cornerback Sheldon Brown — did. In fact, they voiced their support for Mangini, and it won't be a surprise if more players follow suit later this week. ''I love Mangini,'' Vickers said. ''He's a good guy, so I want him back.'' Browns President Mike Holmgren has said he'll wait until the end of the season to decide Mangini's fate. The Browns (5-10) will end their season Sunday with a home game against the Pittsburgh Steelers (11-4), so Mangini's judgment day is on the horizon. ''We want to keep fighting for our coach,'' Vickers said. ''That's the type of coach that he is. . . .Hey, he coached us to finish, and that's what we're trying to do.'' Whether Mangini should return to guide the team in 2011 has sparked debate for months. Finally, it's clear what side of the argument his players are taking. When asked whether Mangini can take the team to the next level, Brown said, ''Yeah, he has all the intangibles. He learned from one of the best — [Bill Belichick]. Obviously, he knows the plan. For us, it's just going out and executing the plan. It's not his fault when we give up touchdown passes. It's not his fault when we throw interceptions. It's not his fault when we fumble. Those things, the players control.'' And how does Mangini relate to the players? ''He's treated me like a man since Day One, and that's all I can ask for from a coach,'' said Brown, who's in his ninth season but first with the Browns after being traded by the Philadelphia Eagles. ''He's never done anything wrong by Sheldon Brown. I have the utmost respect for him, the way he's advised this year, and I can't say anything negative about him.'' Mangini said he appreciates the players going to bat for him. ''There's a sense of community in this team, and there's a sense of purpose in this team,'' Mangini said. ''. . . .It's meaningful when players say that because I think it's indicative of the mutual respect and feelings that we have for each other.'' The players and Mangini might share warm, fuzzy feelings for one another, but after a 20-10 loss to the Baltimore Ravens on Sunday, they're still in danger of ending the season with a four-game losing streak and a record of 5-11 for the second consecutive season. Vickers, however, is convinced the team has improved despite its record. ''I've seen [teams] get beat by 20 and 30 points, and that's losing bad,'' Vickers said. ''A loss is a loss, but the way you lose sometimes plays a part in it. . . .The way we lost this year, not saying it was good, but three points here, a touchdown there. . . .That tells you something: that we're on the verge of doing something great. I can feel it even with whatever's going on. We [went through] three quarterbacks and kept ticking and kept fighting. That just tells you what kind of group we are.'' Mangini also cited evidence of the progress his team has made, even though it hasn't always resulted in winning. As for his future, he insists he is focused on the task at hand. ''What did someone tell me one time? 'Don't worry about the future; it comes soon enough,' '' he said. ''What I really want, what I really want, is to beat Pittsburgh. That's what I really want. I can't be more sincere than that.'' Another endorsement Brown said he thinks defensive coordinator Rob Ryan will succeed as a head coach if he's given the opportunity. ''Rob brings some excitement to the game,'' Brown said. ''The game has changed a lot. A lot of young players that like that type of coach and like to have fun. And obviously his brother [Rex Ryan], having the success in New York, it kind of shows that the game can be played that way and that you can win that way. I would be lying to you if I said he wasn't ready to be a head coach. I definitely know he's ready to be a head coach. ''He'll do a heck of a job for whoever [hires him]. And the team that gets him, they're going to have a lot of fun off the football field. It's going to be like high school and college, that atmosphere. It's going to be a great time. You can see the guys in New York, Jason Taylor, one of the oldest guys that's been around, is like, 'I'll go play with Rex anywhere.' And I bet Rob is probably cooler than Rex.'' Expected to play Mangini said he expects Browns running back Peyton Hillis to play against the Steelers. Hillis was in and out of the lineup Sunday after Ravens safety Ed Reed hit him in the back early in the first quarter. ''He's sore, really sore, but I think he should be fine for the game,'' Mangini said. ''On Wednesday, we'll just see where he's at. We may or may not limit his reps [during practice].'' What went wrong? Mangini said kicker Phil Dawson had been successful while executing onside kicks last week during practice. However, Dawson's attempt at the beginning of the third quarter against the Ravens traveled only 8 of the required 10 yards before bouncing out of bounds. ''We hit about 10 or 12 of those during the week,'' Mangini said. ''I don't know what the number was, but we did it a lot anticipating the fact that we were going to [catch the Ravens] bailing, and [the kicks] looked pretty good. Maybe he just mis-hit it. He's usually pretty accurate with stuff like that.''
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I guess Lawrence Vickers knows less about good coaching than some of the posters at this site.
Maybe we should send him packing along with Mangini at season's end.
Yeah... that would fix everything.
Is there anyone else out there who believes that:
1. there is no such thing as The Perfect Coach
2. imperfect coaches can win titles
3. sometimes, driving past the speed bumps will actually get you to your destination?
Maybe not. But I can tell you all this much, with no hesitation: if we keep changing leadership every 3-4 years, we'll go another 4 decades without seeing a decent team that routinely makes the playoffs.
But no- let's dump a coach that players want to keep.... because we fans (and the agenda-driven pundits who influence them) know better than they do.
[slowly shakes head left to right]
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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But I can tell you all this much, with no hesitation: if we keep changing leadership every 3-4 years, we'll go another 4 decades without seeing a decent team that routinely makes the playoffs.
Couldn't of said it better.
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To be honest, I'm not that surprised that those two came out in support of EM. They are two of the "leaders" on the team. Two of the guys that are respected on their sides of the ball. If they came out and didn't express support for their coach I would be more concerned about the type of player they are not what kind of coach they have. The type of player that doesn't support the coach during trying times, even if he doesn't necessarily believe they are the right guy for the job, isn't one I would want on my team (i.e. Ocho and TO). And my gut tells me  ... H&H feel the same way.
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Lawrence Vickers and Sheldon Brown will not decide the fate of Mangini. The fans who don't like him as HC will not decide it either. Only one man will decide whether he stays or goes, and that man - Holmgren - holds a vision of how offensive football should be played that is diametrically opposed to Mangini's. Years from now, some posters will be saying "we ran Mangini out of town" and it will be a crock, same as it is now when people say that about Browns fans and Belichick.
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the same thing happened when Romeo was near his end.. players took up for him and said it was there fault..
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the same thing happened when Romeo was near his end.. players took up for him and said it was there fault..
That's a good point, and it certainly doesn't mean we should have kept Crenell.
I've played different sports under coaches that I loved to play for, and not all of them were good coaches. I'm still on the fence with Mangini, but a few players coming out on his behalf won't sway Mike Holmgren.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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the same thing happened when Romeo was near his end.. players took up for him and said it was there fault..
Yes but Romeo was known to be a players coach. Mangini has had a reputation of not being liked by players. I think Mangini has progressed when it comes to dealing with the players.
Unfortunately I think Mangini is gone. I hate to see yet another head coach. What I think has killed this team more than anything is the lousy gameday decision making.
Blaming Daboll is an easy target since he runs the offense and play calling. The thing that I am most disappointed in has been time management. I agree with the decisions in the past few games to eat up time so the opposition doesn't get the ball. However, it has been done so poorly that we ran out of time Sunday. Mangini could have and should have stepped in.
Outside of the past three weeks this team has made a lot of progress with limited talent. Has the last three weeks indicative of where we are headed or is it that injuries and a lack of talent has finally caught up with us? I think that is what Holgrem will have to answer.
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Vickers is a FA...last year it was Cribbs, who wanted a new contract, who sadi good things about Mangini....
and just 2 players? What about the rest? If really the whole team would want him back, they'd do something about it and raise their voice in unison...what about the productive leaders of this team? I'm sure Hillis will back Mangini, since he gave him the chance to be a starter...but what about Thomas? Rogers? Haden? who don't have to fear to lose their jobs to a new HC coming in?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I'd hate to see a coaching change to the point that we would have to change schemes and personnel again. If Holmgren stepped in what would happen with Ryan, our defense would change to a 4-3 would it not? That's what Holmgren likes right? That would change draft needs and free agent needs right?
The one question I would like to ask, is if there is a possibility that Holmgren can coach again anywhere else but here. (San Fran?) I don't know the business side of things too well but I am curious if something like that is a possibility.
If not I can see where he might want to step in and coach here. The team, as of late, lacks any sense of urgency or fire.
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There are roughly 45 guys on the team. Unless the coach is a total jack-wagon ya gotta figure at worst at least 23 of those guys are gonna support him at any given time.
So a couple of guys coming out in his defense is definitely nice but hardly noteworthy.
Mike Holmgren will make the decision, if he hasn't already, on Mangini's tenure. I'm willing to support that decision whatever it is. Until then anything else is just white noise.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Unfortunately, the poor time management in the last couple of games has largely been a factor of having a rookie QB in there.
I'm sure that Mangini doesn't want to throw hos rookie QB under the bus ...... but watching the kid take the entire clock at the line was probably not what he had in mind. As he says ..... it's a process, and it's also a process with McCoy. I'm sure than the Ravens showed him some things in the 2 minute situation that he was not familiar with, and that caused him to take more time off the clock than he otherwise would have.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Unfortunately, the poor time management in the last couple of games has largely been a factor of having a rookie QB in there.
I'm sure that Mangini doesn't want to throw hos rookie QB under the bus ...... but watching the kid take the entire clock at the line was probably not what he had in mind. As he says ..... it's a process, and it's also a process with McCoy. I'm sure than the Ravens showed him some things in the 2 minute situation that he was not familiar with, and that caused him to take more time off the clock than he otherwise would have.
If that were the case, and gini thought colt was confused and taking too much time, why didn't gini call one of the TO's he pocketed into the half to get him settled down instead of just letting the time tick away?
#GMSTRONG
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Because you're not sure when he's going to snap the ball.
If the kid appears to see what is happening, and changing the play ...... but then gets confused ... then appears to recover, burning a timeout could take you out of the right play just as easily.
This wasn't some huge problem for most of the year ...... so it appears that a different variable has to be in play. The 1st largest, and more obvious variable is the QB.
I can't say with absolute certainty that this is the case, and it is also likely that Mangini was trying to run clock while also trying to score .... but this hasn't really been the pattern over the rest of the season, so with a new variable and a new result, the new variable, at least, bears investigation.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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the same thing happened when Romeo was near his end.. players took up for him and said it was there fault..
I'm glad a couple of guys stood up for Mangini. I doubt it will have any effect on the final decision that Holmgren will make next week..
The one thing I'm absolutly sure of, it's not going to take Holmgren long to announce his decision. My guess is it's already made. Don't know which way it will go, but it will be quick.
If I were to guess at what will happen,,, I only see two scenarios.
1. Mangini and the whole staff is fired. (don't have a clue who would replace him)
2. Mangini is retained, new DC and OC. The Defensive system remains the same, but Rob gets a HC job and moves on. Daboll is fired and someone of Holmgrens liking is brought in to run the O. Mangini agrees to the changes.
My Crystal ball is now retired
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Players come out in support of Mangini
Hindsight is 20/20, but I would have suggested that they come out in support him ON the field . . .
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But no- let's dump a coach that players want to keep.... because we fans (and the agenda-driven pundits who influence them) know better than they do.
There are always going to be players who want to keep coaches. Players wanted Romeo Crennel to stick around too. Doesn't mean it was the right move. There are also going to be players who want to see Mangini gone on Monday morning. If Holmgren had listened to the players the first time around, we probably wouldn't have experienced another season with Mangini. He's not going to look to them this time either. In the end, Mangini will be judged by the bottom line and unfortunately for him, that's wins and losses... not really close games... not a couple vets willing to defend him...
We're... we're good?
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j/c. Don't want to steer this in a different direction. Just have a new article . . . http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2010/12/in_coaching_the_cleveland_brow.htmlIn coaching the Cleveland Browns to win the hard way, Eric Mangini makes Mike Holmgren's decision easy Tuesday, December 28, 2010, 8:12 AM By Bill Livingston, The Plain Dealer BEREA, Ohio -- No telling what got into Eric Mangini in the game before the bye week, when the Browns crossfield-lateraled and fake-punted their way past the defending Super Bowl champions in the New Orleans Saints' scream machine. It was the most atypical game of his Browns coaching career, which Sunday should come to what looks like a foregone conclusion. Emphasis on conclusion. So let us celebrate that one stunning afternoon down on the bayou, when Mangini devised a game plan based on calculated risk and aggression. I make it the finest moment of his Browns career. Many fans will choose the decisive victory over the Steelers in brutal cold last year, but Pittsburgh was without safety Troy Polamalu. The Steelers' defense misses him even more than the offense misses quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. Others might say the greatest moment of Mangini's tenure was the domination this season of the New England Patriots and the greatest coach of the new century, his mentor, Bill Belichick. But Mangini knows the Patriots better than any other organization and with the bye week, he had two weeks to prepare. He gave the Pats the last loss they might experience until September. Mangini's peak moments were memorable. They were not the product of a hot quarterback in the soft part of the schedule, as with Derek Anderson in 2007. No Hail Mary pass was involved, as with the playoff Browns of 2002. This is why many Browns fans think more highly of Mangini than his record seems to warrant. But any carryover effect of the back-to-back shockers this season was lost because of the inherent conservatism and stubbornness of the coach. The Browns were overmatched in personnel Sunday against Baltimore. Colt McCoy finally played like a rookie, and their only touchdown came on a pass by wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi on a trick play. More attempts should have been made to try to keep the Ravens off balance, particularly after Peyton Hillis was roughed up in the early going. So, while critics can fault the failed onside kick to open the second half because it did not work, as a strategy of calculated risk, it was defensible. The play was there for the taking, too, except for Phil Dawson's botched kick. Too often, though, Mangini plays for field goals. That is why the games are so close against bad teams. That is an explanation for why the Browns barely beat one-win Carolina and lost to two-win Buffalo and Cincinnati. Look at the opening drive in Buffalo. When a physical tone could have been set, Mangini ordered a field goal after Hillis was stuffed on third-and-goal at the 1. Look at the fourth quarter in Cincinnati. Down, 16-7, and needing two scores, Mangini ordered the three-pointer, rather than go for it at the Bengals' 5. A field goal would have been much easier to get later than a touchdown. (It turned out that the god of floating footballs delivered a late scoring strike on a defender's mistimed jump, but the Browns lost anyway, 19-17). Mangini let McCoy pass on first down from his own end zone near the end of overtime against the Jets. Then he buttoned it up and played for the tie the Browns did not get after losing field position on the inevitable punt. Last year, I supported bringing Mangini back because the team won their last four games and played hard all the way. This year, they will likely lose their last four and finish 5-11 again. They are still playing hard, but the bar has to be set higher than that. The NFL isn't a league where every participant gets a trophy. The four-game winning streak last season was the essence of the Mangini method. It was Neanderthal football -- running, defense, special teams. Brady Quinn either handed off or got out of the way and let Josh Cribbs run the wildcat. It has been much the same this season with Hillis. Mangini's defenders will say he had to use three quarterbacks this season because of injuries. But he barely needs one to run coordinator Brian Daboll's offense. A clash seemed inevitable over time between the defensive-minded philosophy of Mangini and the offense-oriented approach of Browns president Mike Holmgren. McCoy's rise accelerates it. Asked about his job status, Mangini said, "Don't worry about the future. It comes soon enough." It is hard to believe Holmgren, a quarterback guru who has not renounced coaching again, thinks McCoy's future will come soon enough with Mangini.
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Look at the opening drive in Buffalo. When a physical tone could have been set, Mangini ordered a field goal after Hillis was stuffed on third-and-goal at the 1.
That decision (I felt) sealed our fate for that game. What a better way to let your team know you have absolutely no faith in them. (especially against a team like Buffalo )
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Lunacy of Firing Mangini
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