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First let me preface this by saying I'm fully aware the kid has only had a total of five starts and most feel we have no idea yet if he is or is not our future franchise QB.
That said, look at the facts of the matter and then ask yourselves some questions......
Jake Dehomme was signed to a two year deal. Now any time you see the length of a contract, it gives you an idication as to what or why that length of contract was given. The two year deal gives every indication that our FO saw JD as stop gap at best and the type of team guy who would work well as a mentor to a young QB.
Now all of those that call for Mangini's head use many reasons for it. But one that seems to almost always crop up is that..................We beat teams like NE and NO but just can't seem to beat lesser teams............ Rings true and on the surface, without looking a little closer at it, you may give that some legitimacy.
But who was our starting QB when we beat NE and NO?
This isn't a thread about stats. It isn't a thread about our overall record. This is a thread that only your eyes can really address. It's also a thread about football philosophy and how it relates to the overall "team concept".
1. Leadership
Does the O unit of a football team get a sense of who is their leader on the field and who isn't?
I believe they do. I've seen it too many times over the decades where a team knows who their leader is and they somehow elevate their play when that QB is on the field of play. They seem to elevate their play accordingly. They play to the level of fire and intensity their "field general" brings to the table. When you change that dynamic, along with it, everything else changes as well.
I've seen it with my own eyes that this O is no different than what my eyes have seen elsewhere. And while they would like to point out some very disturbing losses and praise the major upsets, they seem to negate the point that the QB's were different in these instances. Could it be the O as a unit simply plays harder and with more fire when their QB does too?
2. Playcalling
I believe when you have a QB at the helm who has the ability to scramble, actually hurt you with his feet, fistly the oposing D must account for the possibility of that QB to hurt them with his feet. That alone changes things up to some extent.
And wouldn't common sense dictate that if your starting QB does posess good feet that it opens your playbook to many more options? Such as designed roll outs and a far more threatening Wildcat package?
Let's face it, if you know that the QB who is rolling out can hurt you with his feet, doesn't the oposing D have to collapse to cover that QB which helps a lot in openning up the pass to the TE and short routes?
3. Results
Do people actually feel that when Colt is in there, we did beat both NE and NO is simply a fluke while we can't seem to beat some far lesser teams without him in there?
Now I'm not trying to indicate that everything is perfect when Colt is in there at QB. I'm not trying to completly absolve our coaching staff and say they are anywhere near perfect.
But what I am saying is that we have three QB's and have used them all. Not an environment conducive to having a winning season by any stretch of the imagination. Expecting a two year stop gap QB past his prime is not conducive to a winning season, especialy given his performance on the field.
Our D in almost every game, has kepth the oppositions score to a level that with any type of production by our O, we should be winning most games. So why does it seem our gretest accomplishments have been with colt as our starter?
To me it is easily seen with the eyes. That fire to win and the intensity Colt brings to the field helps elevate the play of those around him. This O views colt as their leader and as such, performs, plays harder and does more with him at the helm.
With a kid like Colt as with any rookie, you will see your share of mistakes. You will see things that can be improved upon. But what you also see is a sense of will. A sense that he makes those around him feel they can win any game against anyone.
I have not seen that with the other two QBs........Have you?
Stats won't tell you. W's and L's won't tell you. What will tell you is your eyes and what you've seen with them.
So I'd like to hear your input to the title of the thread and the questions pertained within this post. I feel that at this moment Colt gives us the best chance to win. Not only based upon his play alone, but also the effect he has on the players around him.
The remainder is left to the rest of you see this team play on a regular basis this season and what your eyes tell you. Because that is the real stroy, your eyes, not a stat sheet.
jmho
BTW- I know you will hear that these guys are professionals and that it shouldn't be that way at all. But this isn't about what "should be", it's about "what is".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Here's something weird .....
Winning QB vs Cincinnati Game 1: Wallace
Winning QB vs New Orleans and New England: McCoy
Winning QB vs Miami and Carolina: Delhomme
I can think of a few teams that have had 2 QBs win games for them this year, but I can't think of many who have had 3 QBs win games for them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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To me that helps accentuate the point YTown. While it is true they have all won, in which of those cases do you feel the QB had the greatest accomplishments and beat the better competition?  But yes, I think it says a lot when a team can win games with all three QB's on the roster in a given season. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Truly McCoy beat the better competion, if seneca or jake started those games against new england and new orleans, would they have one? Thats something will never no and i couldnt say for sure. But for colt to win those games tells me that he can win in this league and i have faith in him. Lets just see how he does the remainder of the games and we shall see if hes the difference, im sure hoping.
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In the wins ........
Cincinnati: Wallace - 18/30 184 1 TD 1 INT
New Orleans: McCoy - 9/16 74 yards 0 TD 0 INT
New England: McCoy 14/19 174 yards 0 TD 0 INT
Carolina: Delhomme 24/35 245 yards 0 TD 2 INT
Miami: Delhomme 24/34 217 yards 1 TD 0 INT
McCoy actually had his 2 biggest yardage days in the losses to the Jets and Jacksonville.
What's it all mean? I dunno. lol Probably that Mangini wants to build a team that doesn't need the QB to go out and throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs in order to win.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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To be fair though Pit, the 2 defensive TD's in the N.O. game were the difference... I would go as far as saying they won in spite of McCoy rather than hitching him to the wagon of why... He didn't do anything to win it but he sure didn't put us in a position to lose it either...
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Not sure if the guy is "it" or not.. but we sure are about to find out..
::Sidenote:: Broncos are starting Tebow against the Raiders...
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All it means is that when we have our D clicking and our Run game is effective, we can win no matter who the QB is... be it a turnover-prone veteran or a rookie that we're simplifying things for.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The statistics are quite strange to see.
I feel much more confident in the offense with McCoy at the helm.
I won't pretend to extrapolate that feeling beyond into any coherent objective argument.
I prefer seeing him back there. More so than any QB we've had since 99'.
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I'm more comfortable too... but why?
I mean Colt had some nice outings for a rookie, but he can in no way bring the experience of Jake or Seneca?
The team rallied around him, yes. BUT was that because they had to help the rookie or because he led them better?
Every part of me feels (FEELS being the keyword) that Colt is our future. But with only a handful of starts I'm not sure why.
The next three games, win or lose, probably will still not make or break Colt. It may give us more confidence or shake our confidence, but I'm not sure they will define his career here by any means.
Will two or three wins keep us from drafting another QB? Will two or three losses insure that we draft another QB? I simply don't see us bringing in a first round QB in the next draft. If they wanted that we would have went after Bradford.
I think these three starts are simply for experience. Next year Colt will start day one and that year will be his test.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 12/18/10 07:06 PM.
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Most is just to add considerations to point #2, and I agree with Colt. Sure that the FO wants to see him perform against division rivals. He also needs time to season and prepare, so this is a great opportunity to see him live against folks he will see 6 times ideally. The miore he sees, the more he knows to a degree. An attacking vertical offense not bent on throwing passes three yards and less will stretch the perimeters of a defense three ways, spreading them, running deep routes, and rolling to sidelines at times. They do things to keep from loading the box so much; we have seen a steady diet of it. Screens, running outside, and counter action with rollouts should help that somewhat. A QB rolling out beats some rush usually backside and pressures the outer edge of a defense. If he can beat you with his feet, he may also suck some backs in, and throw downfield. Why we insist on him being under center and dropping back so gives some advantages back to the D. It is a game of who does what and how the other guys adjust. I always tried to get the D to adjust to me, to make them perform. We are not challenging them enough with Hillis up the middle twice and then trying to throw on third. That is OC mix, and Colt can help us if we are able to allow him outside more. Stretch the field; he can find folks and I believe that he can learn to do it better.
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To me, it's even simpler,, I ask myself, who do I feel better with at QB.. the answer is McCoy..
Stats, Wins and losses aside, with him back there, I feel as if we have a chance to win..
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j/c
I see where it makes some posters "more comfortable" and the stats do show we can win with any of the QB's.......
But that's really not what I was looking for in terms of my questions. Pobably my fault so let me simplify it to one basic question......................
Does it appear to you from watching all three of these QB's play, that when Colt is starting that the offense as a whole plays with more fire and intensity no matter the outcome?
As I said in my initial post to the thread, it's not about W's and L's wheather we can actually see which QB the offense plays their hearts out for. That's more of what I'm asking.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Does it appear to you from watching all three of these QB's play, that when Colt is starting that the offense as a whole plays with more fire and intensity no matter the outcome?
Obviously, my answer is yes..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I always thought it was about the wins and losses, just saying..
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Quote:
I always thought it was about the wins and losses, just saying..
So you can't visually watch a football team play with three different QB's in one season and look for yourself and form an opinion about which QB the players on O play harder for?
Just sayin'.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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All it means is that Colt as a rookie with 5 games experience is no worse than any of the other options.
Play him.
To paraphrase the great philospher Yogi
Until you have your QB, you don't have one.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
So you can't visually watch a football team play with three different QB's in one season and look for yourself and form an opinion about which QB the players on O play harder for?
Just sayin'.....
I would hope the offense plays hard regardless who is the qb. But imo, i would say the offense looks more fluent with colt at the helm. I have a better feeling about the game when hes the starter. Doesnt try to force passes, doesn't dake to many mistakes, buys extra time with his feet, mobile. Smart and tough kid. I hope he is gonna be our franchise qb and lead us to many wins. I like the kid. But he only has 5 career starts, so the verdict is still out on him.. But im glad he is starting and i hope he suceeds.
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The whole premise of your post is something I've touched on multiple times about the QB position in general and about McCoy specifically in the games he's played this year.
The answer is a resounding "yes". The team plays harder when he's in at QB on both offense and defense. Why? Because the guys on the team believe they have a chance to win. When you believe you have a chance, you play your arse off. When you don't believe, you don't play your arse off. Pretty simple. McCoy represents the chance to win, and the guys on the team know it. I know these guys get paid a lot of money and the argument is they should always play their arses off ... but guess what ... these guys are human just like the rest of us.
Solve the QB position, and the wins will come. The NFL is not a mystery. It begins and ends with the QB.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I love when he got testy about his arm strength in bad weather. Browns have a lot riding on McCoyhttp://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/21879/browns-have-a-lot-riding-on-colt-mccoyQuote:
It felt as if there was a changing of the guard at the Cleveland Browns' training facility this week. After talking it over with president Mike Holmgren and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, Browns head coach Eric Mangini named rookie quarterback Colt McCoy the starter for the remainder of the 2010 season.
Mangini gushed about McCoy's work ethic, quick learning curve and how the rookie wouldn't accept it when everyone in the organization -- from Holmgren on down -- said they didn't plan for McCoy to see the field this year. Instead, McCoy is projected to play eight games, which is half of the Browns' season.
McCoy landed his initial opportunity through injury, but he's regaining the starting job with solid play in five starts. He threw for 975 yards, completed 63.8 percent of his passes and had an 85.3 passer rating. The rookie proved to be the best quarterback on the roster and essentially forced the team into this decision.
"I wasn't really looking at this as just being the case where we're throwing a young guy in to see whether or not a young guy can do it," Mangini said. "I think Colt really did a good job with the opportunities that he had. I think he's earned the chance to play these three games."
Is McCoy the long-term solution in Cleveland? It's too early to tell.
But the Browns (5-8) and the rest of the NFL are about to learn a lot more about McCoy in the next three games against AFC North opponents. The first test is Sunday, a road game against the Cincinnati Bengals (2-11) and then there's back-to-back home games against the playoff-bound Baltimore Ravens (9-4) and Pittsburgh Steelers (10-3).
The training wheels are officially off for McCoy.
"It's no landmark day," McCoy said Thursday. "Today is the day that I know I'm the starter and I have to go out and play. I have to go out and get better and I have to go out and help us win."
McCoy's play down the stretch will affect a lot with the Browns, starting with the NFL draft. Quarterback is the league's most important position, and Cleveland has lacked stability there since returning to the NFL in 1999.
A lot of quarterbacks have passed through Cleveland's revolving door, including Tim Couch, Kelly Holcomb, Jeff Garcia, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn and now Jake Delhomme. Poor quarterback play is one of the biggest reasons Cleveland has just one playoff appearance in more than a decade.
McCoy showed promise, going 2-3 in five starts. But five games do not make a solid season. Three more contests will provide a half-season's worth of film to evaluate the rookie.
"The No. 1 goal of the Cleveland Browns right now has to be finding out what they have in McCoy," said Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. "They like what they've seen from him, but can he be the guy? Or do the Browns need to draft a guy or bring in a free agent? I think the Browns need to have a clear picture of that going into the offseason."
The Browns also need to find out whether McCoy can play in inclement weather. Garcia, Frye and Quinn didn't have the arm strength to throw against the heavy winds that come off Lake Erie in Browns Stadium during the winter.
McCoy's biggest asset is his accuracy, not arm strength, which raised some red flags when the Browns drafted the University of Texas product in the third round. McCoy didn't see a lot of bad weather as a four-year starter in the Big 12.
"I've played in the snow and wind in Kansas a couple times. I've played in Nebraska," McCoy explained. "We had some real wet games back home [in Austin]."
McCoy believes playing in bad weather is more mental than physical. But when he was pressed by the media this week regarding his arm strength, a confident McCoy fired back.
"I guess we'll find out, won't we?" McCoy scoffed.
Running the carousel in the AFC North also will be a great learning tool for McCoy. If Cleveland is to turn the franchise around and make a run at the postseason, it first has to win within the division.
The past three seasons the Browns are just 3-12 against AFC North opponents. It's a major reason former head coach Romeo Crennel was fired in Cleveland and Mangini is currently on the hot seat. If McCoy can get hot and pick up two or three wins against Cleveland's biggest rivals, everyone in the organization looks better heading into the offseason.
It's obvious the Browns have a lot riding on McCoy's performance in these final three games.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Does it appear to you from watching all three of these QB's play, that when Colt is starting that the offense as a whole plays with more fire and intensity no matter the outcome?
McCoy seems to be able to look down field and scan for his receivers even while on the move. I think that does energize the team, and make them want to keep plays alive.
Alot like the way Vick has energized Philly. Actually McCoys build and moves remind me alot of Vick, just without the laser arm and rocketship speed.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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This is just a portion of an article posted at 8:46 P.M. that indicates that it's not just some of us who understands this concept......... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A big difference for the Browns this week is that rookie Colt McCoy will be back under center. While he was out, the offense sputtered, including scoring only two field goals the past 10 times the defense handed it the ball after a takeaway. The offense has converted only four of its past 24 third-down opportunities over the past two games for a dismal 17 percent conversion rate. The Bengals' defense is 15th in the NFL on third down, allowing 39 percent to be converted. "One key for us to be able to go win is to be better on third downs," McCoy said. "The last couple of weeks, we haven't done a very good job on third downs. If you look at Cincinnati, the teams that they've played lately, New Orleans and Pittsburgh, nobody was good on third down against them [a combined 8-of-23]." McCoy, who's coming off a high ankle sprain suffered Nov. 21 in Jacksonville, also stressed that the Browns have to play with more intensity. They went flat last week in Buffalo after settling for a field goal from the 1 and Peyton Hillis' fumble on the next drive. Haden and other players acknowledged the Bills wanted it more and played harder than the Browns.
"We've got to have more energy on the sidelines," said McCoy, who went 2-3 in his first five starts. "We've got to be a little more amped up, more excited when we make a play and let's build off of that. Let's make another one."
Browns offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, who has come under fire for the offensive woes, is convinced McCoy will generate much of that energy.
"He's got that youthful exuberance about him," Daboll said. "I'm sure he'll have some anxious butterflies in his stomach coming back out and playing. I'm excited and I know he's excited about the opportunity again." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/12/post_70.htmlUh oh! Daboll agrees too. We all must be doomed now! 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
After talking it over with president Mike Holmgren and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, Browns head coach Eric Mangini named rookie quarterback Colt McCoy the starter for the remainder of the 2010 season.
This seems to me to indicate that Mangini does discuss at least some of his decisions over with MH and seems to go to him and value his input. Hmmmmmm........ Who'da thunk it?
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Quote:
Quote:
After talking it over with president Mike Holmgren and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, Browns head coach Eric Mangini named rookie quarterback Colt McCoy the starter for the remainder of the 2010 season.
This seems to me to indicate that Mangini does discuss at least some of his decisions over with MH and seems to go to him and value his input. Hmmmmmm........ Who'da thunk it?
Impossible,, we all know he's an arrogant, egotistical SOB that doesn't listen to anyone and makes all the decisions in the organization down to the type of TP in the restrooms 
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Clearly I think he is the difference as most of you have been saying. There's something about the offense when the kid is in there that makes you sit up and take notice. For me, the best I remember seeing him was the drive against the Jets D to take us into overtime by throwing the TD. Once in OT, he marched us downfield where we would have won the game if not for Stuckey's fumble.
If he can lead us down the field against the Jets(although they're not looking excellent these last few weeks), I'm more than comfortable to have him in there. Not that it matters much, but, I wonder if delhomme will stay on as a mentor after this year seeing as how he will probably never see the field again.....
Find what you love and let it kill you.
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Has anyone ever doubted they talked? I have no doubt they talk quite a bit. It's been documented over and over again in several articles.
A good leader will always have an open door. They will be a sounding board. They will offer advice. But a good leader will not force their thoughts or ideas onto their people either. They will expect their people to take those sessions ...those pieces of advice ...and apply them the best way they see fit. He's going to let his people work autonomously. That's what a good leader does.
Do you believe Holmgren to be a good leader?
My point is who cares if they've been talking. Mangini will ultimately be judged on his own decisions. The fact that they are talking indicates a healthy relationship between boss and subordinate. That's a good thing that should work in Mangini's favor after the season...
...and will most likely be the reason why Mangini and staff are retained sans Daboll.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
For me, the best I remember seeing him was the drive against the Jets D to take us into overtime by throwing the TD. Once in OT, he marched us downfield where we would have won the game if not for Stuckey's fumble.
Mine was the drive against NE that he capped off with the TD run. Plays like that will win you not only the locker room, but the entire coaching staff and FO as well.
So far, the kid has played with moxie and a minimum of mistakes. When I saw him during that run, he just didn't look like a rook at all. I agree with Pit... there is a snap to this O when he's under center that hasn't been visible with Jake.
I just finished watching a highlight vid of the game vs. NE, and everyone played out of their minds that day. MoMass looked like a true #1, and Robo caught that busted play rollout pass from Colt like the play was practiced all week.
It really is a tale of two teams... and the difference is who's playing QB.
These last 3 games will be good for his growth... you can't be The Man if you can't lead your team to wins within your own division. It's acid test time for the rookie.
Damn, my interest is really piqued. The last time I was this engaged to watch Browns football in December was the 2007 campaign. Hard to believe I'm this geeked because of a rook QB who wasn't even supposed to see the field this year.
He's a catalyst, no doubt. Now we need to see if it was real or just the team rallying around the rook. Great opportunity to find out.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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The answer is a resounding "yes". The team plays harder when he's in at QB on both offense and defense. Why? Because the guys on the team believe they have a chance to win. When you believe you have a chance, you play your arse off. When you don't believe, you don't play your arse off. Pretty simple.
Maybe for the "Simple Minded"... 
If there's enuff guys on this team that don't believe they can win with Del or Wallace at QB...Then we have a roster full of LOSERS...
Go Browns!!!
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i would say the offense looks more fluent with colt at the helm. I have a better feeling about the game when hes the starter. Doesnt try to force passes, doesn't make to many mistakes, buys extra time with his feet, mobile. Smart and tough kid.
Now THIS is much closer to the reason we just look better with McCoy at QB...
This kid has an energy that neither Del or Wallace has...He can CREATE...And when he does...It's EXCITING...It gets the adrenaline flowing...And it for sure reverberates into and thru the entire team...O and D...
Go Browns!!!
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"We've got to have more energy on the sidelines," said McCoy, who went 2-3 in his first five starts. "We've got to be a little more amped up, more excited when we make a play and let's build off of that. Let's make another one."
I'm on this kids wagon bubba...No doubt about it...
This is exactly what it is...Right there outta a 24 year old rook's mouth...
This kid just GETS IT...He's football smart...
Don't freak out today if he isn't like he was the last couple he started...He's been out 3 weeks...It MIGHT take him a game to get it back again...But the last 2 I look for him to be himself again...If not TODAY...
25 degrees...7 MPH winds today...It won't be windy but here's game one of wanting to see how he does in cold weather...And I'd be willing to bet over the next 3 weeks he PROVES weather won't affect him one ioda...
Go Browns!!!
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This seems to me to indicate that Mangini does discuss at least some of his decisions over with MH and seems to go to him and value his input. Hmmmmmm........ Who'da thunk it?
Mangini has said on numerous occasions throughout the season that he does talk to Holmgren and he values his input. That was never a secret or in debate. And if you go back to the other thread where you and I and others had this discussion you will find that no one disputed it.
What I said then and am still saying now is that Holmgren does not and will not bail him out by making decisions for him. In fact, in a recent article posted on here Mangini was quoted saying Holmgren gives him the kind of advice that helps him be sure he's looking at all his options which helps him make better decisions.
There's a far cry from not talking to the man at all about football, and the man bailing him out by making decisions for him to avoid mistakes and a bad season. I solidly believe Mangini is making all his own head coaching decisions.
The idea that Holmgren and/or Heckert would intervene and make decisions for Mangini in an effort to save their own reputation, egos, careers and futures is, I believe, out of the realm of possibilities. How would Holmgren ever know what he had in Mangini so he could make a proper, accurate decision about retaining him for 2011 or firing him at the end of the season if Holmgren is stepping in making decisions for him?!
And if he is making decisions for Mangini then he is doing a poor job of it by the likes of games such as Jacksonville, Carolina and the Bills.
All this article is indicating is what we've all known all along that they do talk about things and Mangini values his input. He's said it a million times.
#gmstrong
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The answer is a resounding "yes". The team plays harder when he's in at QB on both offense and defense. Why? Because the guys on the team believe they have a chance to win. When you believe you have a chance, you play your arse off. When you don't believe, you don't play your arse off. Pretty simple.
Maybe for the "Simple Minded"...
If there's enuff guys on this team that don't believe they can win with Del or Wallace at QB...Then we have a roster full of LOSERS...
I don't think it's simple minded at all. If a player has less faith in the capabilities of their leader, he may be inclined to exert less effort figuring it's not worth it. Why try if Jake is gonna just throw the ball to the wrong colored jersey anyway????
You even said in your next post that Colt gets the adrenaline flowing, so you substantiated the comment yourself.
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Legend
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My point is who cares if they've been talking. Mangini will ultimately be judged on his own decisions.
Just asking here, but if you agree they all talk, which decisions were manginis and which were group?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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My point is who cares if they've been talking. Mangini will ultimately be judged on his own decisions.
Just asking here, but if you agree they all talk, which decisions were manginis and which were group?
My guess is that the man who matters most, Mike Holmgren, knows the answer to that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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FWIW, here's a question from today's "Hey Tony" column in the PD addressing the communication (or lack thereof) between Holmgren and Mangini & staff:
Q: Hey, Tony: With Mike Holmgren currently evaluating Eric Mangini and the rest of the coaching staff, what kind of insight can you provide regarding the relationship with Holmgren and Mangini? Does it seem like there's tension between the two? Clearly, Holmgren will wait to announce the decision on Mangini's fate after the season. Does Holmgren travel with the team? Does he have any interaction at team meetings or in the locker room?
I'm really excited about the building blocks on this team but we need the right guy on the sidelines next year. I'm confident Holmgren will make the right move for Cleveland. -- Rob Houk, Dayton
A: Hey, Rob: I'm not sure what goes on behind the scenes. I know this: In the public interaction seen by the media, the disconnect between Holmgren and the coaching staff is palpable.
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Interesting choice of words by Grossi.... Palpable–adjective 1. readily or plainly seen, heard, perceived, etc.; obvious; evident: a palpable lie; palpable absurdity. Definition So I have watched these interviews and I would hardly use the word "palpable" to describe them... Wonder if he is interjecting his feeling of what happens off camera prior to the interviews?? Maybe that is me over thinking it here but I wonder just how much of this media scrutiny is justified...
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A: Hey, Rob: I'm not sure what goes on behind the scenes. I know this: In the public interaction seen by the media, the disconnect between Holmgren and the coaching staff is palpable
It's just like Grossi to say something so stupid. 1st he says he doesn't know then he says the disconnect is palpable... What is it Tony?
Last week I tortured myself and listened to his Monday show. During the show he said it was like the Browns couldn’t decide if they wanted to pass the ball or throw it. And he repeated it over and over again. I guess my question for him would be what the hell is the difference between throwing the ball and passing it???
Tony Grossi is an idiot, there is no way to sugar coat it. And to think anyone would take anything he says or writes serious gives me real insight as to why people think the way they do and say the things they say. DO Cleveland a favor Tony jump off one of the bridges…………………..
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Interesting take by Grossi.
It's also the first time anything like that has been documented that I can recall.
Grossi is anti-Mangini. Not sure I'm buying what he's selling here.
Just recently Cabot had an article stating that Holmgren liked Mangini and wanted him to succeed.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Legend
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My point is who cares if they've been talking. Mangini will ultimately be judged on his own decisions.
Just asking here, but if you agree they all talk, which decisions were manginis and which were group?
My guess is that the man who matters most, Mike Holmgren, knows the answer to that.
well, yeah, he would be one of those that know? I was wondering which decisions Rish was speaking of? Just wondering,, no biggie.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Interesting choice of words by Grossi....
Palpable–adjective
1.
readily or plainly seen, heard, perceived, etc.; obvious; evident: a palpable lie; palpable absurdity.
Definition
So I have watched these interviews and I would hardly use the word "palpable" to describe them... Wonder if he is interjecting his feeling of what happens off camera prior to the interviews??
Maybe that is me over thinking it here but I wonder just how much of this media scrutiny is justified...
To tell the truth, I have no idea what Grossi is talking about. everytime I've seen them together (not often ) they seem to get along extremely well.
Odd choice of words by Grossi....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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