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Quote:
Quote:
I would like to hear your priorities, preferably ranked in order of importance.
How about some opinions on the OC's and DC's - after all, they are the meat of the coaching
Then the Chiefs should be a shoe-in for the Lombardi Trophy w/ all that meat. 
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We need a coach that has the fire to take some risks. Also, I'd like a coach who believed in the same type of discipline that Mangini instilled in the team the past two years. With that said...
1.) Fisher (If he leaves, Mike would be dumb not to interview him.)
2.) Rob Ryan (He won't be calling defenses to defend against the screen pass anymore in this position.)
3.) Brad Seely (An intriguing candidate for sure. He's had ST playing great.)
4.) Russ Grimm (Sure, he's with the Cards now but he's been with winning organizations in the past. If he can instill the leadership which is needed I'm fine.)
5.) Brian Schottenheimer. (Wherever he has been he has taken advantage of his offensive weapons. I'd to see if he had the leadership to be a great head coach.)
6-9.) Unknown candidates to us all.
10.) The Walrus. (Ain't going to happen anyway.)
Personally, I'd stay away from Gruden, Fox, and Mornhinweg. Gruden has proved that he has no idea how to find long term success with his own pieces, Fox had too many mediocre seasons with a superbowl team, and Mornhinweg has had McNabb and Mike Vick to make him look great. Marty's stint in Detroit hurts his credibility even more.
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mine from another thread, but it fits better here:
my darkhorse guys
1. Brad Seely (thanks Ytown, I'm stealing your idea) - as long as you get him good, experienced co-ordinators. Why not? He has been a fine coach and is awfully firey. He's 54 and has been around for awhile (he coached OL at OkieState when Barry Sanders was there), but he's young enough and has demonstrated leadership attributes.
2. Vic Fangio - Stanford's DC. I'd prefer Harbaugh, but that likely isn't happening. Fangio was Dom Capers stand-by DC in Carolina and Houston before moving onto Baltimore and now Stanford. Well respected, and a good leader (things a HC needs).
3. Rich Rodriguez - just kidding. just kidding. subtle hint though to Harbaugh firing him the day after the Orange Bowl though.
4. Joe Philbin - OC for GB the last 4 years. He has been OL and OC virtually his whole career and would be a great under the radar hire. 49 yrs old.
5. Hue Jackson - he made the Raiders a decent to good offensive team this year despite being forced to swap between Bruce Gradkowski and Jason Campbell at QB. Great OL play and their RBs doing everything. Sounds like he'd be a good fit here. Another guy that just seems like a good leader.
6. Pat Shurmur - ST. L Rams OC - lost Avery, Clayton, Amendola, and a bunch of other WRs and cobbled together enough WRs for Bradford to have a good year and miss the playoffs by just 1 game. Bradford gets the lions-share of the credit, but Shurmur should be receiving some there too (Spags is a defensive guy as HC there).
#gmstrong
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My personal top 3:
Mike McCoy
Mike Mularkey
Brad Seely
The more I think about Mularkey, the more I like him. He got the Bills to win, then resigned over differences with the front office. Looking at their results since then, I'd say that he was probably more correct that they were.
I just have a feeling about McCoy, and can't really explain why. He's a real ferocious student of the game, and has done a great job with the Broncos QBs.
Brad Seely is my dark horse. He's a fiery guy who demands excellence from his units. He is creative and innovative, and more often than not his trick plays work. That tells me that he can look at a team and see their tendencies and weaknesses. I think that plus his leadership qualities could make him an excellent head coach. I think that he would need to be paired with experienced coordinators, which is fine by me. I want experienced coordinators.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I wouldn't be totally surprised that after this interview process, Holmgren decides he can't find the right person who has everything he's looking for and decides to take the job himself. I don't believe that's his intention now, but he could come to that conlusion.
My list includes (and I'm not sure how I'd rank them):
Gruden
Mariucci
Billick
Mularkey
Fisher
Fox
A darkhorse would be current CFL head coach and former Browns assistant Mark Trestman.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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OK, for arguments sake try to pretend you are Mike Holmgren. Bear in mind your history, your relationships, and the knowledge you have accumulated in your 25 years in the NFL.
So now you are going to interview people who you have worked with and who are friends for the same position.
Gruden's History:
In 1990, Gruden's father Jim set up an interview with Mike Holmgren, who was the offensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers. Gruden impressed Holmgren with his knowledge of the game for such a young man. Holmgren hired Gruden as one of the first quality control coaches in the NFL.
He quickly ascended through the ranks of NFL coaching by learning the famous West Coast offense pioneered by longtime NFL coach Bill Walsh. When Holmgren left the 49ers to become head coach of the Green Bay Packers in 1992, he took the promising young Gruden with him to become the team's wide receivers coach. After three seasons in Green Bay, Gruden moved on to become the offensive coordinator of the Philadelphia Eagles under former Packers assistant coach Ray Rhodes. Gruden then was chosen by the owner and general manager of the Oakland Raiders, Al Davis, to be the Raiders' new head coach for the 1998 season. He goes 38-26 with two division titles. He then goes to TB wins three division titles and a Super Bowl.
Assistant coaches under Gruden: Bill Callshan, Rod Marinelli, Mike Tomlin, Raheem Morris.
When you walk into a room of players you have to carry a "presence". You have to be a leader of men. You have to inspire them. Then you have to show them how to win. You do that with what you have learned and your ability to teach what you have learned.
Young players have to be shown the way by teaching. Veteran players have to be shown by proof that you have the knowledge each and every week to prepare them to win.
Of all the "candidates" for the position Jon Gruden has the best credentials. Marty Mornhinweg, and the "others" maybe qualified but they have not accomplished what Gruden has.
Gravy or icing on the cake is his Ohio roots. He comes from Sandusky and was a Browns fan who loved Leroy Kelly.
"So Jon, to me the job is yours if asked by your old mentor Mike".
All you need to do is walk away from your cush job on TV and the money you are collecting from TB. Your needed here and you can be the first guy to win 2 Super Bowls with different teams. Come on home and lead your boyhood team to the promise land.
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>>" But now, at least at this moment, it appears we have the makings of a strong and consistent front office of our own. "
Finally : This be the key to the whole shebang ! We have a real chance this time to move forward ...
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Gruden is the obvious Hollywood script candidate. It fits too well. And that's probably why it won't happen. Same with Cowher. Roots, history, and both have the fiery personality that make them logicial choices. But I think both pass for different reasons (though both will have "they just stink" as a sub reason).
After that, it's Fox and Fisher (if he gets let go). Both carry respect, were long tenured coaches, and got to the Super Bowl. So they're obvious choices too. Fox doesn't fit for some reason, I don't know. And Fisher will most likely be retained. I think Bud Adams will finally get the point about V.Young (he's too much trouble).
Then we have Morhinweg, Shurmur, and Mularkey. All probably good fits, but the fans might be unhappy. And I'm sure MH is trying to hit a grand slam with this hire (good coach AND excite the fans). Something tells me we end up with one of these guys and complain a lot.
And lastly, I think these are the longshots. Rob Ryan, Harbaugh, Billick, Edwards, Rivera, & Schottenheimer. Too young, too old, too tied up with a current team, too far removed from coaching, or too defensive-minded. I like Ryan, but I'm not sure MH liked him at all. So we'll see there. Harbaugh, jeez...there's a .00005% chance he'll even answer a call from MH. I wouldn't if I was him (49ers, Raiders are better gigs).
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Am I the only one that is having a real hard time mustering care or interest in the particular names this time around? I've been a close follower of the Browns for 12 years with all it's ups and downs and like y'all I've thrown my support behind any number of coaches, front office types, and players in that stretch only to be proven completely wrong (...ehem Savage), mildly mistaken or wrong because of pure circumstance. Surveying the landscape this time around I just can not say I feel like I know anything about any one of them conclusively. It's clearer to me now more than ever that we've had an ownership problem and the effects of that are as insidious as they are hard to pin down. Yea, ok, so Holmgren and Heckert are running the show but I'm still having great ambivalence about all this. Fact is, I don't care about action packed awesome offseasons anymore and it used to be my favorite  I just want who ever. Who ever wins and I have no idea who that is anymore.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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1. Fisher 2. Nolan 3. Fox Unsure about MM...don't want Gruden, but I'd accept it....it's hard to be a worse HC than Mangini anyway ..and then at #6 I'd take Gabbert...there's your shocker... He's the only QB I'd take in the 1st
#gmstrong
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I'm with you, bud. There's always so much hype and anxiety over hiring coaches, and when the announcement is finally made, it's such a letdown. I'm getting sick of it. We should just admit defeat and commit to hiring new coaches every year, and let that be our strategy. Wouldn't be much different from what we end up doing anyway.
That being said, I really like the idea of having Seely upgraded to HC. Has the important qualities of a HC (fiery, does a lot with a little, gameplans well and fields at least an above-average product year after year). He'd have to lean heavily on his coordinators, so I would hope that translates to top-tier OC and DC.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quote:
..and then at #6 I'd take Gabbert...there's your shocker... He's the only QB I'd take in the 1st
wrong forum, but you are suggesting that Gabbert is going to be a better NFL QB than Luck?
#gmstrong
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Luck hasn't declared yet. His coach seems to think he will finish his degree.
Also, I think that if we are targeting a QB for our first pick, we have to look elsewhere. There's going to be a ridiculous run on those first two picks and we have too many needs to get into a bidding war with half of the NFL.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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i agree. i think we have no shot at Luck, but DJ said Gabbert was the only QB he would take in the 1st. that's all.
I personally only would take Luck in the 1st round. he might go back, but he'd be wise to just make the jump when he's the #1 overall pick.
agree that we should look elsewhere for our first pick. WR and DL pop up to mind right away.
#gmstrong
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There was a time when I would have commended Luck for staying to get his degree.. now I'm of the opinion that its stupid.. he has nowhere to go but down in the draft... Stanford could suck next year if Harbaugh leaves and a bunch of seniors leave, he could get hurt, he could just have a bad year... Go now, make your millions, if things don't work out... guess what... Stanford will still be there and then you can be a millionaire AND go back and get your degree....
yebat' Putin
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I agree. After his performance, I can't imagine him doing anything next year that would possibly cause his stock to increase short of throwing 100 TDs, no incompletions and no INTs.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Still with that Nolan crap?
Please, no.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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The only reason he could go back to school is if he really really really REALLY doesn't want to play for Carolina... (and he doesn't want to be a big baby like Elway and Eli)...
yebat' Putin
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All Pro
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Head Coach choices:
1. Fisher
2. Fox
3. Mooch
Just say 'No' to Chucky and MM.
And the next head coach is ......
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Let's be realistic here, our options are obviously:
1) Coach who will be fired in 4 years
2) Coach who will be fired in 3 years
3) Coach who will be fired in 2 years
As long as we avoid the guy who will get canned halfway through his first year, I think we call it a success.
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My honest reply should have been any HC that doesn't end up purging this roster to restart the rebuild all over again. 
And the next head coach is ......
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1. Gruden
2. Fox
3. Mike Sherman
4. Marty Schottenhiemer....LOL....Been two days since Mangini was let go and nobody has brought it up....WE GOTTA GET THIS GUY
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I agree completely. Unfortunately I don't see how that's even possible. Roster purge and rebuild #73 coming right up! We'll get halfway through this one and decide the computer is cheating...throw our controller at the tv and hit the reset button...again. It's what we do best after all.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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So are you going to give this coach a chance or are you going to keep complaining about how we should have given Mangini more of a chance to fail as a head coach?
you had a good run Hank.
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2nd String
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I want Gruden. 5 playoff appearances in 11 seasons. 1 Super Bowl ring with TB. The team TB beat was Gruden's former team the Raiders. So Gruden built that team. 50% playoff teams. Id take that
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I want the most qualified coach for the job.
I don't want to "win the press conference."
I can't really say who I want because I don't sit in on those interviews so I have no idea what the hell they're saying.
I'm sick of splash hires. I do know that much. I hope the fans are underwhelmed and complain about it. That'll be an indicator of whether or not we have the right guy because the "popular vote" is usually never the "right vote."
Either way, Tom Heckert is gonna make the guy look like a genius.
Last edited by Ammo; 01/05/11 04:42 PM.
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I already said...after 11 years of fighting it, and trying to tell the angry mobs to just be patient I've had enough. I'm jumping on the bandwagon. So, in the spirit of Cleveland, I will officially give the next coach all the support in the world...until his first regular season loss. Then, all bets are off.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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So basically no. You are going to act like a petulant child who hasn't had his way so he'll instead annoy the crap out of anyone around him.
Good to know.
*Clicks ignore*
you had a good run Hank.
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By the way, anyone who thinks the fans fired Mangini is an idiot.
you had a good run Hank.
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Great point, Fargo. The good coaches improve players. No substitute for raw talent and skills, admittedly. But we do not want to burn this whole house down to get rid of fleas. Competent coaches can use what they inherit to a degree. And motivate. Hope he has a discipline and work ethic.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
I want the most qualified coach for the job.
I don't want to "win the press conference."
I can't really say who I want because I don't sit in on those interviews so I have no idea what the hell they're saying.
I'm sick of splash hires. I do know that much. I hope the fans are underwhelmed and complain about it. That'll be an indicator of whether or not we have the right guy because the "popular vote" is usually never the "right vote."
Either way, Tom Heckert is gonna make the guy look like a genius.
Great post. I don't think my thoughts could be summed up any better. Look at the successful HCs out there and you'll see very few who had ever HC'd before, let alone won while doing it.
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jc.. I'm not sold on Fisher. He's been with Tennesee like 15-16 years right? Gone to playoffs 6 times (1 SB loss, 1 AFC Champ loss, 3 AFC Divisional Losses, 1 AFC WC loss). Coincidentally his only winning seasons were playoff years. Code:
Head coaching record
Team Year Regular Season Post Season
Won Lost Ties Win % Finish Result
HOU 1994 1 5 0 .167 4th in AFC Central
HOU 1995 7 9 0 .438 3rd in AFC Central
HOU 1996 8 8 0 .500 4th in AFC Central
TEN 1997 8 8 0 .500 3rd in AFC Central
TEN 1998 8 8 0 .500 2nd in AFC Central
TEN 1999 13 3 0 .813 2nd in AFC Central Loss -SB XXXIV.
TEN 2000 13 3 0 .813 1st in AFC Central Loss -AFC Div (BAL)
TEN 2001 7 9 0 .438 4th in AFC Central
TEN 2002 11 5 0 .688 1st in AFC South Loss - AFC Champ (OAK)
TEN 2003 12 4 0 .750 2nd in AFC South Loss - AFC Div (NE)
TEN 2004 5 11 0 .313 3rd in AFC South
TEN 2005 4 12 0 .250 3rd in AFC South
TEN 2006 8 8 0 .500 2nd in AFC South
TEN 2007 10 6 0 .625 3rd in AFC South Loss - AFC WC (SD)
TEN 2008 13 3 0 .813 1st in AFC South Loss -AFC Div (BAL)
TEN 2009 8 8 0 .500 3rd in AFC South
TEN 2010 6 10 0 .375 4th in AFC South
Total[4] 142 120 0 .542
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Bernie Kosar!
But seriously, after listening to Holmgren's press conference, I'm not so sure an experienced head coach is in the cards. I got the feeling he wants a fresh face. Someone to follow him. Someone to develop as a head coach...
So at this point I just want to watch Holmgren and wait to see the move he makes.
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Quote:
My honest reply should have been any HC that doesn't end up purging this roster to restart the rebuild all over again.
Why should we? Don't believe the homers telling you we don't have enough talent...it's BS
On D:
Rubin, Rogers, Roth, Fujita, DQ, Ward, Haden would start for over half the teams in the league....they are AVG to pretty good
Coleman, Benard, Gocong, S.Brown and Wright would start for some lesser teams...they are below AVG to decent AVG players...
I just named 12 players that can be rostered for any team, either as starter or strong backup/situational starter
On Offense:
Hillis, Thomas, Vickers, Steiny, Mack and Watson are AVG to very good players...start for half the league or more
Moore, Womack, McCoy and Wallace qualify for good backup/sit players
That's 10 players that can stay regardless PLUS 2 wildcards in Hardesty and Lauvao, that's 12...+12 = 24 (fun game: count how many of those are Mangini picked) pretty decent NFL talents...the rest is so bad I could care less if we "Continue" with them or cut/trade them....
I mean what's the point of whining about roster do overs? Either they're good enough to be retained (AVG or better) or they aren't...if they aren't why should we care about them either way? You may lose 1 or 2 decent AVG talents due to different scheme/philosophy etc, ok....but overall it's better to have a fresh set of eyes coaching the talent (and in this case it's only a new coaching staff...President and most of all GM, who is responsible for the 53, are still the same...they KNOW our talent and crap) because the old coaching staff might overrate some of the bad apples they'd still be willing to work with...and boy did Mangini have tons of them:
StClair, Royal, Massa, Robo, Schaefering, Barton, Elam, Ventrone, Trusnik, Costanzo
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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That's one of the reasons I don't want a "big name" coach. Now, let me say, I don't know who should be the coach - but I do know the teams we play, have played, and will play - don't give a rat's behind about who our coach is.
Too often I think people get caught up in the "oh, look who our coach is" thing.
I remember people saying Chris Palmer was perfect - he could coach Tim Couch excellently.
Butch Davis was "great".
Romeo Crennel was exactly what this team needed.
I'm tired of the "reputation" coaches.
Mangini didn't even really fit in that class.
Let's just get a coach - let Holmgren do his job. He knows as well as anyone whoever he hires has about 2 years to show significant improvement, and if it doesn't happen - Holmgren's butt is on the line as well.
I don't care if it's Fisher - Fox, Morni....or Joe Blow. It' s not in my job description to know - or care. My job is to root for the Browns - and it's a heck of a lot easier when they win.
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yea.. i'm kind of with you here. I think with "big name" coaches there is this false sense of hope for fans that the coach can turn things around.
The biggest thing is getting a coach that can make solid game time decisions, and like you said, let Holmgren and Heckert bring in the talent that this team needs.
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Break it down though: Program Building Years (4 years) Code:
Head coaching record
Team Year Regular Season Post Season
Won Lost Ties Win % Finish Result
HOU 1994 1 5 0 .167 4th in AFC Central
HOU 1995 7 9 0 .438 3rd in AFC Central
HOU 1996 8 8 0 .500 4th in AFC Central
TEN 1997 8 8 0 .500 3rd in AFC Central
TEN 1998 8 8 0 .500 2nd in
Superbowl contention window (5 years) Code:
AFC Central
TEN 1999 13 3 0 .813 2nd in AFC Central Loss -SB XXXIV.
TEN 2000 13 3 0 .813 1st in AFC Central Loss -AFC Div (BAL)
TEN 2001 7 9 0 .438 4th in AFC Central
TEN 2002 11 5 0 .688 1st in AFC South Loss - AFC Champ (OAK)
TEN 2003 12 4 0 .750 2nd in AFC South Loss - AFC Div (NE)
Rebuilding years (3 years) Code:
TEN 2004 5 11 0 .313 3rd in AFC South
TEN 2005 4 12 0 .250 3rd in AFC South
TEN 2006 8 8 0 .500 2nd in AFC South
Competing years (2 years) Code:
TEN 2007 10 6 0 .625 3rd in AFC South Loss - AFC WC (SD)
TEN 2008 13 3 0 .813 1st in AFC South Loss -AFC Div (BAL)
Rebuilding years (2 years) Code:
TEN 2009 8 8 0 .500 3rd in AFC South
TEN 2010 6 10 0 .375 4th in AFC South
Total[4] 142 120 0 .542
He built the program, competed for championships (came within 1 yard of knocking off the heavily favored Rams), and then rebuilt to compete again. The main issue is that the 2nd competing window was very short (2 years). It boils down to the whole VY thing. If you feel he mishandled VY and he should have figured out a way to keep that window open longer and it's his fault that it wasn't, then Fisher shouldn't be as highly sought after. If you think that the QB his owner drafted and entitled to special treatment was more of the problem, then Fisher should still be held in high regard. I'm more of the latter, and I hold Fisher in high regard.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 880
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 880 |
J/C.
Whoever is named Head Coach, next year's schedule will probably make MH look like a genius in who he picks as next years schedule isn't nearly as brutal as this years.
And the next head coach is ......
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
Quote:
J/C.
Whoever is named Head Coach, next year's schedule will probably make MH look like a genius in who he picks as next years schedule isn't nearly as brutal as this years.
And maybe that was part of his letting EM stay... who knows
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,190
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,190 |
We can all have opinions on who is the right guy.
In the end analysis it always boils downs to Wins.
I agree with what you said. We can look at their resumes but that does not always tell the story. Alot is based upon what is known about the guy from direct experience and what is thought of the guy from the inner circle of coaches in the league that are contacts.
At the end of the day for us as fans you either trust Holmgren and Heckert to make the right hire or you do not.
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