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Quote:
Roster turnover: Browns GM Tom Heckert said it will be a challenge for him to adapt the roster to the new West Coast offense and anticipated 4-3 scheme.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/01/cleveland_browns_looking_at_mi.html
Yea! Another rebuild! 
Get used to sucking for a couple more years!
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
Roster turnover: Browns GM Tom Heckert said it will be a challenge for him to adapt the roster to the new West Coast offense and anticipated 4-3 scheme.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/01/cleveland_browns_looking_at_mi.html
Yea! Another rebuild!
Get used to sucking for a couple more years!
Come on man You are twisting it. There is no doubt, regardless if Mangini was still our coach, that we need to get younger on the defensive side. Our DL is old and not good. Heckert responded to questions about this aspect of our defense when he stated there needed to be changes made,
If you don't agree with that, you have not watched our front 7 lately.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Yeah, we needed a couple of additions. I bet that this defense could add 2 players and be a top 10 defense as a 3-4.
What you are not understanding here is that a transition to the 4-3 is not just finding a couple of players ..... it is finding all new players. Starters, depth, everything in the front 7 will need replaced.
Fujita might fit, but he's getting older. Ditto with Rogers. Those are our 2 best hopes to transition to the 4-3. Age may work against them. Rubin might fit ..... but that's a "might". We have no one else who fits. No none. Who will we build this 4-3 around?
We need powerful pass rushers on the DL. Who are they? We need flat out fast gang tacklers at LB. Who are they? None of our present players fit the equation.
This will be a teardown and rebuild. People seem to think that we're just going to line up our current players in a 4-3 alignment instead of a 3-4 alignment and they'll just be able to play the defense. That's not the case.
We were the 13th ranked scoring defense this year despite playing one of the toughest schedules in the NFL. We did this without a premiere pass rusher on either the DL or from the LB corps. Add either one next year and we'd have a much improved defense next year. Probably even a top 10 scoring defense given the overall weakness of next year's schedule. Add both and who knows how good this defense could be. However, instead of retooling a position or 2 we're going to do a teardown instead.
That's what this regime wants ... so that's what they'll do ..... but don't blow smoke up my butt and tell me it's going to be sunshine and light.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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OK, well I just typed out a whole ^%$$#^&**(ing post on scoring defense and the damn thing got lost in internet freakin' limbo.
Anyway, Pluto has an article today, and he writes that, of the 8 teams left in the playoffs, 7 are in the top 8 of scoring defense. (Seattle is the exception, and they beat the other team in the top 8 in scoring defense, New Orleans)
The Browns were #13 in scoring defense last year.
Only 3 of the remaining teams are in the top 10 in scoring offense. (NE, Atlanta, and Green Bay @ 10)
The axiom that defense wins championships is said so often because it's true.
Our defense is really close to being a playoff and beyond caliber performer as far as scoring goes. Add a pass rusher and a run stuffing DE and I bet they could get into the top 8. Instead we're going to blow it up and start over with a 4-3.
That's why I'm annoyed about all of this "Let's just switch to a 4-3, our 3-4 isn't any good anyway" talk. We obviously need a couple of pieces to make our 3-4 a premiere type group. We need a whole lot more than just a couple of pieces to do the same with a 4-3.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Sorry .. we were 14th, not 13th.
Also, 6 of the top 10 scoring defenses in 2010 were ..... 3-4s.
Of the top 15, 10 were 3-4s.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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On the Offensive and the Coordinator position:
I cannot fathom Mike McCoy coming to coach our Brownies when he won't have the authority to call his own plays. Now if Mike McCoy was a random guy that Shurmur worked with in the past like his QB Coach in St. Louis I would believe it. However, it appears Mike McCoy is in demand by a few teams. Unless he believes our players and front office are more important than calling the plays I can't see it. I think Mike McCoy would be great and I hope he does become our OC but with the way he is in demand I doubt it. We needed a change on our offense and with our gutsy soft throwing QB the WCO is the best offense to maximize his ability.
On the Defensive and the Cordinator:
I am almost in complete agreement with YTown. If you exclude the last game with a lame duck coach against a team that absolutely needed to win to get bye our defense was hovering around 10th in points allowed and was a league leader in fewest points given up in the 1st quarter. Now consider we didn't have a dominant pass rusher and best defensive linemen and linebackers were banged up. Fujita, Smith, and Jackson were integral parts and they were all hurt. It appears the browns 3-4 defense was a pass rushing OLB (Clay Mathews, Harrison, Suggs..etc) and solid penetrating DE away from having a very good defense. Both of those players would improve our anemic pass rush and make our secondary look tons better. Let's look at what we need to complete each defense. When comparing 3-4 and 4-3 I exclude secondary players because it doesn't really matter to them.
3-4
NT: Rubin
DE: We need one. The Draft looks to be loaded if we can't get AJ Green then Marcell Dareus or Nick Fairly look like good options at 6. Or in the 2nd round Cameron Haywood (may have to trade back in the first for him) Marvin Austin (Character issues) or Allen Baily could be available.
DE: Smith, Rogers..etc One of the guys on our team can be serviceable
OLB: Fujita- Captain of our defense and our defense did look worse after he was injured
ILB: Jackson (I think we resign him because his stock is low from injuries and he actually fits in both defenses)
ILB: Gocong
OLB:We need one and don't know how to get one. I think its too hard to risky to draft a project with the 6th overall pick ask the Jets with Gholston. I think we need to stick with a DL or WR pick. After that its a crapshoot. We could get lucky, maybe try to swing a trade or pick up a FA. No easy fix here. Realistically probably 2 players away 1 of which should be addressed through the draft.
4-3
DE: We need a guy we have no elite pass rushers. I highly doubt any of our OLB/DE could do the job we need. No Mario Williams or Julius Peppers in this draft so we would have to make due as the only elite guy would be gone (Daquan Bowers).
DT: Rogers....maybe...he's old and probably doesn't want to play through a rebuilding. I see him as likely trade or even a cut this offseason. As is he maybe could handle 1 DT spot
DT: Rubin....maybe. Rubin has been asked to eat blockers his whole career who knows if he can penetrate the way the 4-3 needs its DT to. Generally good NT's don't make good 4-3 DTs.
DE-Bernard...maybe
SOLB: Fujita-He can fit in either probably a better fit as a Sam
MLB-Gocong-I think he would be out of position and we would most likely need to draft a MLB because he prolly doesn't have the speed to play a 4-3 Mike.
WOLB: Jackson I think this is actually probably his best fit. Allow him to use his undersize frame and speed to make plays on the backside. He would probably generate some probowl buzz as a Will for us.
Our defensive line is in shambles for a 4-3 we need almost everything DL wise. Our LBs would probably fine as long as we resign Jackson. Our MLB could probably be solved by drafting an undersized college guy like Laurinitis was.
Look at the facts our defense was almost competent last year as it most ranked in the top 1/3 of the league for points allowed. Now I agree we shouldn't probably keep Ryan as that was Mangini's hire but we should hire a guy who runs a similar 3-4. You don't rebuild a part of the team that was mostly in the top 1/3 of the league just because you can't figure out what's going on. Read a book.
Not that it matters. This sucks...why can't they just fix the side of the ball that was in the bottom 1/3 of league instead of screwing up a part of the team that was in the top 1/3.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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I agree with you on the offense. Bring in a quality guy like McCoy and let him do the job. Look at the job he did in Denver with a guy like Orton and a guy who wasn't supposed to be anywhere near NFL ready. Hire the guy and let him call the plays. He's an excellent coordinator. He won't come here only to have the head coach take the best part of his duties. I do like the WCO, and definitely think that it fits McCoy's skill set. The WCO is so wide ranging in its implimentation that it can use a power back, to a scat back, to a receiving back ....... so we don't need to disregard the running game in order to run the WCO. I definitely do not want to see us throwing 37 times, in Cleveland, in December though. If Hardesty comes back 100%, we can run a power running WCO that should be very effective. I can't see scrapping the 3-4 ... and I've said why. We're going to do it anyway, but I'm glad that at least someone agrees with me. lol I wonder how many games people will project us to win next year? I would guess, given the relatively easy schedule, that we would have been projected to win 8 or 9 games, and that would have been the expectation if the former coaching staff had stayed. What's the mark with a new staff and another rebuild?
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 01/15/11 03:59 AM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
On the Defensive and the Cordinator:
You don't rebuild a part of the team that was mostly in the top 1/3 of the league just because you can't figure out what's going on. Read a book.
Not that it matters. This sucks...why can't they just fix the side of the ball that was in the bottom 1/3 of league instead of screwing up a part of the team that was in the top 1/3.
So you're saying to fix the offense!
I think it is an economics thing, I think they don't want to spend money on investing in the offense,
What I'm really starting to think is until they keep this team together, Until they STOP WITH all the free agent pick ups,
Start re signing the players they already have
Bring in 1, 2 , or 3 or fewer free agents, and get 1, 2, or 3 or more players from the draft that make the team, Until they keep a CORE together they are going to LOSE.
The Browns have lost ever since Free Agency started and they've been doing it all wrong. The teams that DEVELOP players that other teams actually take away in free agency get the advantage of more Draft Picks which when a percentage are HITS, get even more of an advantage or MORE DRAFT PICKS which when a percentage are HITS, get an even more advantage of more DRAFT PICKS which when a percentage are HITS, get an advantage of even more draft picks,
Which becomes exponentually BETTER FOR THEM.
Every time the Browns bring in more free agents, than a select few, which they Always seem to do , and continue to lose, then some player didn't get playing time to continue to develop.
All I"m saying is, I wonder how much development players could get in their 3rd 4th and 5th years, let alone their 6th and 7th, when they never seem to get the opportunity.
Is this team going to beat Pittsburg, and Baltimore, 3 of 4 games in a season?
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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How many free agents did we actually go get last year, or the year before for that matter? Fujita was a free agent. Jake Delhomme was a stop gap free agent. Tony Pashos was a free agent. Ben Watson was a free agent. Robert Royal was a free agent last year. John St Clair was a free agent last year. Floyd Womack was a free agent last year. That's 7 free agents in 2 years. That's not out of the ordinary, or extreme. We signed 3 RTs and 2 TEs. If you have no none to play those positions, then you try to fill in either with your own draft picks, (if you have a player drafted there) a trade or free agent signing, or some guy signed off the street. The biggest reason that this team hasn't been developing its own draft picks is because we have a "fire the head coach/GM and flush the roster" party every 2.4 years. We change offensive philosophies. We change defensive philosophies. We change and change and play the merry go round and fall further and further behind. If nothing else, this regime will be a success if we only stop the constantly changing philosophies. 4-3 with Davis. 3-4 with Crennel and Mangini. 4-3 with Shurmur. Gee, wonder why we don't have many of our own guys here ....... We had an offensive cluster under Crennel. We seemed to change QB s weekly. The amazing thing is that we had identified something that could succeed somewhat on offense. We had a quality OC in Chud ...... well ..... for a year anyway. Then he had to go too. This continued the trend that was in effect under Davis. Mangini had the same problem, but did identify a kid who might be successful in the right offense. Man .. we had Palmer for 2 years. He took on a gargantuan job, and got 2 years.  Seriously, think about that. Here's ...... nothing. Go build a winning team. You have 2 years.  Then we hired Butch Davis. Well, he got 3 1/2 before he got tossed overboard. Then came Crennel. 4 years, and see ya. Mangini? 2 years and hasta la vista babay. Now we're on our 5th different full time head coach after 12 years back in the league. Over that time frame we have started Couch, and Holcomb, and Detmer, and Wynn, and Pederson, and Garcia, and McCown, and Dilfer, and Frye, and Anderson, and Dorsey, and Quinn, and Gradkowski, and Delhomme, and Wallace, and McCoy ....... That's 16 different starting QBs in 12 years. Amazing. On Kirby, and Prentice, and Jackson and Green, on Suggs, and Droughns, and Lewis and Harrison and Hillis ....... Not to mention Karim Abdul Jabbar, Marc Edwards, Errict Rhett, and God only knows how many others ..... Then the TEs .... the OL-Men ...... Flush the roster every 2.4 years on average as we change GMs .. and Head Coaches .... and Team Presidents ...... I mean we had Policy, Clark, Savage, Collins, Kokinis, Heckert, and Holmgren. Whew. I'm trying to remember all of the OC and DC we had .... but frankly I feel blood vessels bursting in my brain at this point. It is amazing how many of those failed cooridinators go on to succeed elsewhere though. Wonder why that is? Gee, I wonder why we can't seem to build anything, or sustain any continuity? At least we now have a front office and coaching staff that are completely on the same page. Everyone shares the same philosophy. Everyone looks at a player or situation and sees, essentually, the same thing. Hopefully this will work. God knows that nothing else we've tried in the past dozen years has.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't know if it is quite as dire as you think, but it will take some adjustments.
I will say this....if we do switch to a 4-3....I say if, because until the DC is named as says we will, we just don't know...we probably need to draft a D-lineman with out first pick.
There are some good ones at the top of this draft.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
How many free agents did we actually go get last year, or the year before for that matter?
Fujita was a free agent.
Jake Delhomme was a stop gap free agent.
Tony Pashos was a free agent.
Ben Watson was a free agent.
Robert Royal was a free agent last year.
John St Clair was a free agent last year.
Floyd Womack was a free agent last year.
That's 7 free agents in 2 years. That's not out of the ordinary, or extreme. We signed 3 RTs and 2 TEs. If you have no none to play those positions, then you try to fill in either with your own draft picks, (if you have a player drafted there) a trade or free agent signing, or some guy signed off the street.
The biggest reason that this team hasn't been developing its own draft picks is because we have a "fire the head coach/GM and flush the roster" party every 2.4 years.
We change offensive philosophies. We change defensive philosophies. We change and change and play the merry go round and fall further and further behind.
If nothing else, this regime will be a success if we only stop the constantly changing philosophies. 4-3 with Davis. 3-4 with Crennel and Mangini. 4-3 with Shurmur. Gee, wonder why we don't have many of our own guys here .......
We had an offensive cluster under Crennel. We seemed to change QB s weekly. The amazing thing is that we had identified something that could succeed somewhat on offense. We had a quality OC in Chud ...... well ..... for a year anyway. Then he had to go too.
This continued the trend that was in effect under Davis.
Mangini had the same problem, but did identify a kid who might be successful in the right offense.
Man .. we had Palmer for 2 years. He took on a gargantuan job, and got 2 years.
Seriously, think about that. Here's ...... nothing. Go build a winning team. You have 2 years.
Then we hired Butch Davis. Well, he got 3 1/2 before he got tossed overboard.
Then came Crennel. 4 years, and see ya.
Mangini? 2 years and hasta la vista babay.
Now we're on our 5th different full time head coach after 12 years back in the league.
Over that time frame we have started Couch, and Holcomb, and Detmer, and Wynn, and Pederson, and Garcia, and McCown, and Dilfer, and Frye, and Anderson, and Dorsey, and Quinn, and Gradkowski, and Delhomme, and Wallace, and McCoy .......
That's 16 different starting QBs in 12 years. Amazing.
On Kirby, and Prentice, and Jackson and Green, on Suggs, and Droughns, and Lewis and Harrison and Hillis ....... Not to mention Karim Abdul Jabbar, Marc Edwards, Errict Rhett, and God only knows how many others .....
Then the TEs .... the OL-Men ......
Flush the roster every 2.4 years on average as we change GMs .. and Head Coaches .... and Team Presidents ......
I mean we had Policy, Clark, Savage, Collins, Kokinis, Heckert, and Holmgren. Whew.
I'm trying to remember all of the OC and DC we had .... but frankly I feel blood vessels bursting in my brain at this point. It is amazing how many of those failed cooridinators go on to succeed elsewhere though. Wonder why that is?
Gee, I wonder why we can't seem to build anything, or sustain any continuity?
At least we now have a front office and coaching staff that are completely on the same page. Everyone shares the same philosophy. Everyone looks at a player or situation and sees, essentually, the same thing. Hopefully this will work. God knows that nothing else we've tried in the past dozen years has.
Good stuff, and i agree, having the same vision is going to be key.
I am just not so sure the D isn't going to be able to make the changes a little faster than you see. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it seems to me a "3-4" player can adapt to a 4-3 a little easier.
What we really lasck is a top DE to apply pressure....no doubt we will have to do something about that.
At DT, I don't see Rubin having a major problem, though he may never be the great pass rusher from that position. He can still be a solid up the gut run stuffer.
Out of the backers. we can find 3 who can play.
Top priority is a DE. I'll have to start looking for who the top DEs free agents are this year....that and start looking at the top players in the draft.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Heckert has all but said that it will be a challennge to adapt the roster for the anticipated WCO and 4-3 defense ....
So I would anticipate that we are going to switch to the 4-3.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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yea, it's going to happen for sure. I feel pretty confident though that the talent brought in whether free agent or through the draft will be use to the 4-3. I can imagine that there will probably be about 4-5 new guys on the defensive front 7 brought in, maybe 2/3 through the draft.
Of all the people we have on board in the front office, I trust Heckert the most. Some of the people that are drafted may be a bust, or not stick, but I think the 1st day and 2nd day players will, which is most important. I think it speaks a little also that the late picks we drafted were taken from US (can you imagine), although they didnt stick elsewhere, we never know if they would have done well here.
We have a lot of subpar LB's, and they need to be evaluated and if they are slow, can't tackle, and are always chasing... BYE BYE.
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Quote:
On the Offensive and the Coordinator position:
I cannot fathom Mike McCoy coming to coach our Brownies when he won't have the authority to call his own plays.
INITIALLY... not forever.. Not defending Shumur here, but dang, the guy said he'd call the plays INITIALLY. to me, that means that when he feels the OC he hires is capable, he'll move past that and let the OC call plays.
Just a crazy thought., if you were a young OC and had a chance to be around Mike Holmgren and to be able to pick his brain.. would you sacrifice calling your own plays for a while? I sure as hell would.
As for a DC,, I liked Ryan., thought he was fun to watch and I thought he got the most out of what he had. but he's going to be gone... probably to Dallas if the recent reports are accurate.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I agree with everything you said about the 3-4 and would also like to point out that if our offense could have kept our defense off the field our defense would have been ALOT better, and that is with what the second or third hardest schedule in the league?
I am not totally sure how to look it up but every time I watched a game the announcers were saying something about how good our first half defense was statistically. And i'm sure that the statistics are staggering from our first half defense to our second half defense.
If we can get our offense rolling and add a few more pieces to the 3-4 then we should have a pretty damn good defense.
If anybody knows a site to look up first half rankings I would love to see it because I am sure that the difference is staggering.
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j/c
I think we are very far away from having an effective 3-4. We need a DE and at least two true 3-4 LBs. Not to mention that even then our LB depth - for a 3-4 - is light at best.
Unfortunately, we are also very far away from having an effective 4-3. We would need two DEs and at least another LB with some speed. (This assumes that DQ can actually get back on the field.) I think Rubin, Rogers, and R Smith could play DT...maybe even Coleman.
I think the free agency period and draft planning will play a heavy hand in whether we stay or switch. The sad thing is, we aren't in a good position to stay OR switch.
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This from Philly Inquirer
Didn't see it posted...
Browns said to be wooing Jauron
The Eagles have given Cleveland permission to talk to the veteran about coaching there.
By Jeff McLane
Inquirer Staff Writer
The Eagles have granted the Browns permission to interview defensive backs coach Dick Jauron for Cleveland's defensive coordinator position, according to an NFL source.
The Eagles received the request Friday, the same day Browns president Mike Holmgren officially named Pat Shurmur Cleveland's new head coach. Jauron, who was hired by the Eagles last January, worked under Holmgren in Green Bay from 1992 to 1994.
Jauron joined the Eagles' staff three months after he was fired as Buffalo's head coach. He was with the Bills from 2006 to '09, and was the head coach in Chicago from 1999 to 2003.
Eagles coach Andy Reid brought in Jauron - who also had the title of senior assistant - last year to bring some veteran leadership to a young defensive coaching staff headed by 36-year-old Sean McDermott.
Despite the addition, the defense regressed in nearly every statistical category. The defense allowed 31 passing touchdowns and was last in the league in red-zone efficiency. Reid said McDermott would be back next season.
But there could be a hole to fill on the defensive staff. Jauron, 60, is considered the leading candidate for the Cleveland job, according to several reports.
If he goes, defensive quality-control coach Michael Zordich could replace Jauron. Zordich, who played five of his 12 NFL seasons with the Eagles, worked extensively with the defensive backs this past season.
The Eagles may look for someone with more experience, however.
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Forget the Ole man Smith...He won't b here...
Go Browns!!!
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Cowboys begin contract talks with Rob Ryan for defensive coordinator jobBy Jan Hubbard jhubbard@star-telegram.comIRVING -- Rob Ryan spent a considerable part of Friday in Dallas Cowboys offices interviewing for the open defensive coordinator position, and time spent should equate to getting a job. The Cowboys obviously liked what they heard from the Cleveland Browns defensive coordinator. The team was in negotiations with Ryan, although no deal had been reached. Ryan, who spent at least six hours at Valley Ranch -- longer than previous candidates -- was seen in the hallways several times, including twice with head coach Jason Garrett, who was likely escorting him to meet other Cowboys officials. They did not stop to make comments. The Cowboys might feel as though they need to make a quicker decision on Ryan. Two candidates for the job already have taken other positions, and a third seems close. San Francisco 49ers assistant Greg Manusky, who interviewed in Irving on Wednesday, accepted the job as San Diego Chargers defensive coordinator Friday. Paul Pasqualoni, who was the Cowboys defensive coordinator the last eight games of the season, returned to college coaching when he accepted the head coaching job at Connecticut on Thursday. And Stanford assistant Vic Fangio, who interviewed with the Cowboys earlier this week, will follow new San Francisco coach Jim Harbaugh to the 49ers. The Cowboys received permission to speak with Pittsburgh Steelers secondary coach Ray Horton, but he might not be interviewed if a deal is reached with Ryan. Ryan is part of the colorful football family led by father Buddy and twin brother Rex, the coach of the New York Jets. Rob has coached in the NFL for 12 years, the past two in Cleveland. He also was the Oakland Raiders defensive coordinator for five years. Also on Friday, Foxsports.com reported that the Cowboys had begun formal negotiations to offer Ryan a job. Staff writer Charean Williams contributed to this report. Jan Hubbard, 817-390-7760 Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/01/14/...9#ixzz1B7nGQ8Np
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Since Ryan has one more year on his contract here, if he signs with someone else, what do the Browns get?
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Cleveland Browns must find an experienced defensive coordinator: Terry Pluto's scribblesPublished: Friday, January 14, 2011, 8:04 PM Updated: Saturday, January 15, 2011, 1:03 AM Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer  Former Bills and Bears head coach Dick Jauron, above, would be an excellent addition to the Browns staff because his experience could be beneficial to new head coach Pat Shurmur. BEREA, Ohio — Scribbles in my Browns notebook ... 1. I knew the moment Pat Shurmur was hired that the Browns must hire an experienced defensive coordinator. But the new head coach's news conference screamed for the need of a defensive coordinator who can almost serve as a second head coach. That was especially true when Shurmur said he planned to call his own plays, at least for this season. 2. So that means the Browns have a rookie head coach who also will serve the same key role as the offensive coordinator -- the play caller. He also is a coach who has always worked on the offensive side of the ball. None of this is a knock on Shurmur or the Browns' decision to hire him, but you had better defend in the AFC North or you're looking at more 5-11 and 4-12 seasons. 3. Of the eight teams still in the playoffs, all but Seattle ranked in the top eight of the fewest points allowed. In terms of yards allowed, five of the eight playoff teams ranked in the top 10: Pittsburgh (No. 2), Jets (No. 3), Packers (No. 5), Bears (No. 9) and Ravens (No. 10). For good reason, the Browns are focusing on improving the offense -- but you still needed to pay a lot of attention to the defense to advance in the postseason. 4. That's why it's reassuring that the Browns have reportedly asked permission to talk to Dick Jauron, the former NFL head coach for nine seasons in Buffalo and Chicago -- and currently the Eagles' defensive back coach. At 60, Jauron would bring some maturity to the coaching staff. He also may be at the point in his career where he realizes being a head coach is not in his future, but he can make a real impact on defense and also helping a 45-year-old coach such as Shurmur learn his new job. 5. Another name that makes sense is Dave Wannstedt, who was recently fired as the University of Pittsburgh's head coach. He also was the head coach of the Bears and Dolphins. At 58, he may be ready to serve as a defensive coordinator for the right team. Certainly, he is in great demand in the NFL. Wannstedt and Jauron both run the 4-3, as opposed to the 3-4 used by Romeo Crennel and Eric Mangini in the past six years. That would mean altering the roster, adding more linemen and not having as many linebackers. 6. I've not heard his name in connection with the Browns, but what about Mike Singletary? He was recently fired as head coach of the 49ers, primarily because of his problems handling quarterbacks and the offense. But the Hall of Fame linebacker had the No. 13 defense this season. He runs a 3-4 defense but is not rigid about it. 7. What about Rob Ryan? He is being considered by Dallas and some other teams. Ryan remains under contract as the Browns' defensive coordinator, but it makes sense for him to move on. He was upset by Mangini's firing, and his style didn't seem to mesh with the new front office. The Browns' defense did improve this season -- ranking No. 22 in yards allowed, No. 13 in points. 8. The Browns must find a way to keep special teams coordinator Brad Seely, who may have an "out" in his contract which would have kicked in when the head coach was fired. Under Seely, the Browns are one of four NFL teams not to allow a kickoff or punt return for a TD in the past two years. They have allowed only 18.3 yards per kickoff return, lowest over in the past two seasons. They're fourth in punt return coverage over the past two years. As for the return game, when Joshua Cribbs is healthy, the Browns are among the best. Reggie Hodges was found on the waiver wire and became an excellent punter under Seely. And I still wonder why the Browns have so little interest in keeping Phil Dawson, one of the most reliable kickers in the NFL. 9. When he was named head coach of the Jets in 2006, Mangini spent a day interviewing Shurmur of the offensive coordinator's job. Mangini was impressed by Shurmur, who was the runner-up to Brian Schottenheimer for the job. The reason Mangini picked Schottenheimer was that Shurmur is married to the West Coast, short-pass offense. Schottenheimer is not. 10. Mangini said Shurmur "makes a lot of sense" for the Browns, because he is on the same wavelength with team President Mike Holmgren. He also worked with General Manager Tom Heckert for several years in Philadelphia. Mangini praised Heckert for working hard to find the players that the head coach needed, and being very strong when it comes to the college draft.
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Quote:
Since Ryan has one more year on his contract here, if he signs with someone else, what do the Browns get?
They get to not fire and don't have to pay the rest of his contract.
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Quote:
Our MLB could probably be solved by drafting an undersized college guy like Laurinitis was.
I don't have much to add to the defensive debate that hasn't already been said except Dick Jauron isn't a good DC and blowing it up to build a 4-3 is stupid. That said I quoted this and wanted to talk about it because I heard people saying it since before he was drafted including the draftnicks and wonder why that is?
James Laurinaitis-
Ht: 6'2"
Wt: 248lbs
4-3 MLB's in the NFL:
Andra Davis- Ht: 6'1", Wt: 250lbs
Dhani Jones- Ht: 6'1", Wt: 240lbs
Demeco Ryans- Ht: 6'1" , Wt: 250lbs
Gary Brackett- Ht: 5'11", Wt: 235lbs
Pat Angerer- Ht: 6'0", Wt: 235lbs
Kirk Morrison- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 240lbs
Will Witherspoon: Ht: 6'1", Wt: 240lbs
Rolando McClain- Ht: 6'3", Wt: 255lbs
Jon Goff- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 235lbs
Stewart Bradley- Ht: 6'4", Wt: 254lbs
London Fletcher- Ht: 5'10", Wt: 245lbs
Brian Urlacher- Ht: 6'4", Wt: 258lbs
DeAndre Levy- Ht: 6'1", Wt: 238lbs
E.J. Henderson- Ht: 6'1", Wt: 245lbs
Curtis Lofton- Ht: 6', Wt: 242lbs
Jon Beason- Ht: 6', Wt: 237lbs
Jonathan Vilma- Ht: 6'1", Wt: 230lbs
Lofa Tatupu- Ht: 6', Wt: 250lbs
Some 3-4 ILB's as well...
Channing Crowder- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 250lbs
Karlos Dansby- Ht: 6'4", Wt: 250lbs
Jerod Mayo- Ht: 6', Wt: 240lbs
Brandon Spikes- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 249lbs
David Harris- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 250lbs
Bart Scott- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 240lbs
Ray Lewis- Ht: 6'1", Wt: 250lb
James Farrior- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 243lbs
Lawrence Timmons- Ht: 6'1", Wt: 234lbs
Keith Brooking- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 240lbs
Bradie James- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 245lbs
Nick Barnett- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 235lbs
Paris Lenon- Ht: 6'2", Wt: 235lbs
Patrick Willis- Ht: 6'1", Wt: 240lbs
I'm not sure where this undersized stuff keeps coming from, the kid is the average size of a 3-4 ILB and slightly above the average size of a 4-3 MLB.
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So he isn't a good DC because you say so? Do you have stats or articles? Opinions from players? What leads you to believe he isn't a good DC?
Everything you disagree with isn't stupid, you may think staying with the 3-4 is the way to go but the President down to the coach all have experience with the 4-3, they know the types of players that work in that system. Having Heckert, Holmgren, and Schurmur draft outside of their experience and comfort zone would be dangerous in my opinion. They would miss more often than they hit, and judging by the types of players we have drafted I'm not sure even the guys who ran the 3-4 knew what to look for in players. Veikune's name comes to mind.
We are going with what are our staff knows, which is a good formula when look around the league. It might mean more turnover but in the end we can have much more stability if these guys get it right.
I'm not saying they will but it is the best chance for success.
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Quote:
Denver Broncos offensive coordinator Mike McCoy will remain with the team to work under new coach John Fox, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.
Jason La Canfora
Who's our next guy?
I've heard Zorn people here mention Zorn, which I'd be fine with because he won't be calling plays.
I think it'd be hard for Haskell to comedown and not call plays.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/15/eagles-send-sean-mcdermott-packing/ Quote:
Two years ago, Eagles defensive backs coach Sean McDermott was promoted to the position of defensive coordinator, due to the serious health issues of Jim Johnson, who later would succumb to cancer.
Less than a week after the Eagles’ season ended in the playoffs, McDermott has been fired, according to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen.
Hints of trouble for McDermott came when coach Andy Reid became more involved in the defense. In late October, ESPN’s Sal Paolantonio said that McDermott could soon be out.
“There is no question about that,” Paolantonio said. “I don’t know how much input Dick Jauron has in the defensive game plan, I’m sure he has quite a bit, but eventually they may have to make a switch there.”
Some criticized Paolantonio for suggesting that Reid would fire McDermott. (We suggest that Paolantonio not hold his breath in anticipation of any apologies.)
The move comes at a time when Eagles assistant Dick Jauron is drawing interest in Cleveland. Reid possibly realizes that the time has come to bump Jauron up. To do so, Reid first had to bump McDermott out.
From the rumblings on the internet it seems Dick Jauron may end up as the Eagles DC and Mike McCoy stayed with Denver. So what's plan B?
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So much for our reported first choices.
Jauron, eh. McCoy? Big, Big loss.
Of course, what coordinator worth a damn will want to come if he's not going to be able to call plays?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Of course, what coordinator worth a damn will want to come if he's not going to be able to call plays?
My point exactly. We are most likely going to end up with some glorified WR coach or QB coach and call him the OC unless Shurmur decides to not call plays.
As for the DC I hope Jauron does get the job with the Eagles and Dave Wannstedt gets hired by someone else. Then we are forced to keep Ryan or hire a 3-4 guy 
Go Browns!!
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Ryan is all but gone. I don't think I'd hold my breath on that one.
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I agree. I think he'll be a Cowboy come Monday morning.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/15/eagles-send-sean-mcdermott-packing/
Quote:
Two years ago, Eagles defensive backs coach Sean McDermott was promoted to the position of defensive coordinator, due to the serious health issues of Jim Johnson, who later would succumb to cancer.
Less than a week after the Eagles’ season ended in the playoffs, McDermott has been fired, according to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen.
Hints of trouble for McDermott came when coach Andy Reid became more involved in the defense. In late October, ESPN’s Sal Paolantonio said that McDermott could soon be out.
“There is no question about that,” Paolantonio said. “I don’t know how much input Dick Jauron has in the defensive game plan, I’m sure he has quite a bit, but eventually they may have to make a switch there.”
Some criticized Paolantonio for suggesting that Reid would fire McDermott. (We suggest that Paolantonio not hold his breath in anticipation of any apologies.)
The move comes at a time when Eagles assistant Dick Jauron is drawing interest in Cleveland. Reid possibly realizes that the time has come to bump Jauron up. To do so, Reid first had to bump McDermott out.
From the rumblings on the internet it seems Dick Jauron may end up as the Eagles DC and Mike McCoy stayed with Denver. So what's plan B?
I'm not entirely sure that either guy was the first choice.. it's not clear.
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I have no illusions to the contrary but until we hire a 4-3 guy (Dave Wannstedt would be better than Jauron) I am holding out hope we stick with the 3-4.
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Just clicking...
I'm not stressed about the switch to a 4-3. It's not like our front 7 was in place and perfect for the 3-4 system anyways. It's not a bad time to switch systems....
Apart from Gocong and Rubin, who else is strictly a 3-4 type player?
Roth? He's moving on in FA and is overrated anyways.
Bernard? He's a good pass rusher with not much in the line of coverage skills anyways.
D'qwell? Most people believe he'd be better in a 4-3.
Rogers? See above. Far better in a 4-3.
Barton & Bowens- Barton is done. Bowens can play anything.
Fujita- Played 4-3 with the Saints.
Shaefering, Coleman, Robenson, Robaire- All need to be phased out anyways.
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I hope we look at Kevin Greene as a DC.
He'd be unproven, but he's well versed in the LeBeau 3-4.
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Greene is actually quite a bit more well-versed in the Dom Capers 3-4.
Greene played for Capers, for 2 years in Pit. Then a year for LeBeau. Greene then played 3 out of 4 years for Capers in Carolina.
Greene had an intern job as Asst. LB coach under LeBeau for the 2008 training. In Jan 2009 Greene was hired as LB coach in GB.
Greene has only worked for LeBeau for two years. He's been under Dom Capers for 7 years.
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I like this idea of Greene because I much prefer the attacking LeBeau/Capers style 3-4 than the more read and react Mangini/Crennel/Billichek/NE style of 3-4.
I am and always have been a 4-3 guy but I think our defense is much closer to being a top notch 3-4 than it is at being a top notch 4-3. Say we grab Marcel Dareus (a big strong quick DT that can create havoc and mandate a double team every play) in round 1 then follow it up with Jeremy Beal or Justin Houston (A pass rushing fiend at OLB that can also stand stout in the running game) in round 2. Then we are just an ILB (Dunta Hightower next year) and perhaps a DB away from being really really good on defense.
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Quote:
Greene is actually quite a bit more well-versed in the Dom Capers 3-4.
Greene played for Capers, for 2 years in Pit. Then a year for LeBeau. Greene then played 3 out of 4 years for Capers in Carolina.
Greene had an intern job as Asst. LB coach under LeBeau for the 2008 training. In Jan 2009 Greene was hired as LB coach in GB.
Greene has only worked for LeBeau for two years. He's been under Dom Capers for 7 years.
It's the same system, though. Just a different person teaching it. It's still the system that the Steelers have run for 30 years now.
I don't want to give up the 3-4. I don't don't don't don't!
Last edited by Ammo; 01/16/11 12:53 AM.
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It's almost certain that we're going to the 4-3. I would bet that we wind up with a lower level coordinator instead of that guy who could be the "assistant head coach/defense" that they originally intended. Then we'll have an inexperienced guy calling defense, and a rookie head coach calling the plays on offense. If that's not a recipe for success I don't know what is ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I would bet that we wind up with a lower level coordinator instead of that guy who could be the "assistant head coach/defense" that they originally intended.
Dang YTown, I don't want to seem to be targeting you, I really don't. I'm not your stalker, but I have to ask: How do we know what was "originally intended"?
I've been trying like hell to keep up with this whole thing and I've missed any information that says what we had intended. Moving to the 4-3, yeah, I think we all kind of assumed that because Holmgren had a 4-3 when he coached and Heckert scouted players for the 4-3 in Philly. But so far as what was originally intended regarding the coordinator I've heard nothing. I know some things can escape me or I can forget something I've read if I'm reading for other info.
Don't be keepin' no dang secrets from me. 
So far as the OC, Shurmur did say he would be calling the plays "initially". I think in the Grossi article I posted he, Grossi, mentioned that he would likely bring in a young OC to groom into eventually giving him the play calling duties, which would be cool to me as Shurmur would be there to help the OC on occasion. We haven't had an offensive head coach who could help his OC since Chris Palmer.
Personally, I don't mind a young OC with an offensive-minded HC. But I would surly like to see a seasoned DC. I think Ryan would be perfect for the job regardless of scheme due to the way the players respond to him and that I think he's a good coordinator. I wonder if his boisterous mouth that he shares with the rest of his family had anything to do with his ouster? Has he even been fired yet or hired by Dallas?
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The Oakland Raiders will not bring back defensive coordinator John Marshall next season, according to the San Francisco Chronicle on Saturday, citing league sources. The newspaper reports that owner Al Davis has decided to move in a different direction, despite the team's improvement on defense in 2010. The team has not confirmed the move and Raiders senior executive John Herrera told the Chronicle that confidential staff evaluations took place last week. Oakland ranked 11th in total defense in 2010, Marshall's second season with the team. The Raiders defense allowed 322.8 yards per game [Browns 332*] and 23.2 points per game [Browns 20.8*] under Marshall this season. Davis fired coach Tom Cable following an 8-8 season and is expected to name offensive coordinator Hue Jackson as coach this week, according to the Chronicle. Marshall, 65, has 31 years of coaching experience in the NFL. He's served as defensive coordinator for the Atlanta Falcons, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Panthers, Seattle Seahawks and Raiders. *added by me nfl.com
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