|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Is hiring someones OC and naming them Asst HC/OC a Promotion? Or Lateral Move?
Just wondering.
People that call into Drennens shows bore me. Have your talking points ready and don't stutter... ugh.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 24
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 24 |
Quote:
Holmgren did talk to Cower. He did talk to Gruden. He did talk to more people than was reported.
Ha ha.. I wonder what those conversations were like. My guess is, they went something like this:
*ring....* *rrriiiinnnggg* -click-
COWHER/GRUDEN: Hello?
HOLMGREN: Hi Bill/Jon, this is Mike Holmgren of the Cleveland Browns! I wanted to ask-
COWHER/GRUDEN: No.
-click-
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
He said something along the lines of, "We all want players with good character and work ethic, but being on the same page is important."
On Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmur (Holmheckmur?) being from the same system.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Mike: Hey Bill/Jon did you hear we have a HC vacancy?
Bill/Jon: Yeah.
Mike: Alrighty then, well now I've officially talked to you about it, have a good day.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415 |
That "Obviously we all want players who are hard working and have a work ethic ...."
With his desire to "make the roster younger", I have a feeling that we will see that ever so familiar word rolling around the edges of the media again in a short time .......
Rebuilding.
Yes fans, I have a feeling that the roster will be gutted of older players, especially on defense, and that young player will rule the day .... whether they can play or not. We'll fill in players as best as we can ..... and last year's 10th ranked scoring defense may go out the window in favor of a tear down/rebuild.
Yea.
If we do wind up with Jauron as the DC, I hope that he's figured out that you have to stop the run playing in the northern divisions. That message seemed to escape him as HC of the Bills ..... and really was the thing that led to his downfall there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Yes fans, I have a feeling that the roster will be gutted of older players, especially on defense
I have no problems saying goodbye to Eric Barton, David Bowens, Kenyon Coleman, or Robaire Smith. Especially if we switch to a 4-3.
Quote:
If we do wind up with Jauron as the DC, I hope that he's figured out that you have to stop the run playing in the northern divisions. That message seemed to escape him as HC of the Bills ..... and really was the thing that led to his downfall there.
No matter who you are, it is hard to do anything without the players.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
J/C
of the 10 candidates and 3 full interviews. very possible at least some of those were 'phone screened' and didn't pass the vision Holmgren has for the team going forward, so why bring them in for a full interview?
i feel bad for Fewell though if he ends up being this year's Rooney Rule guy for teams. Hope he gets a real shot to land one of these open jobs as I think he's earned it.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
j/c
did holmgren address the concernes that some of you have about nepotism?
I mean, unless he just flat out lied about it, he didn't even know that Shurmer was a Lamonte client. He said he remembered Pat from the days when he'd come around to visit uncle Fritz.... But said, he can't honestly say that he saw this coming (then he chuckled)
I think what we have here is 3 minds that are in charge of this team that think alike and are on the same page. that must be what attracted Holmgren and Heckert to Shurmur.
Holmgren talked about Shurmur being a Good Man, Smart etc. But what I got out of it is that he's a Holmgren kinda coach. He believes as Holmgren does in terms of coaching in general and it appears offensively as well.
I can't say that Shumur made me a believer or anything. In fact, he was VERY non committal about almost everything. (I suppose that's to be expected at this point)
At the end of the presser, it was said that Shumur is going to be made available to the net reporters first with one on ones and in a group setting for the print media. So I'm pretty sure that lots more will come out in the next several hours.
All in all, a rather boring presser if you ask me, but hey,, if Holmgren thinks this is the guy and heckert agrees, what is it I'm supposed to say other than,,, we'll see.. I hope they are right. I really do, I'm so damn tired of losing.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415 |
I broke down his defense in the coordinators thread.
In his 4th year his defense was giving up 200-300 yards on the ground in games. It was abominable, horrific, and flat out amazing that a defense could be that bad. He replaced all of the bigger players on defense with smaller fast guy who got their asses handed to them when teams started pounding them with the run game.
Jauron's final year, the Bills gave up 222, 250, 171 (we did that in our 6-3 win) , 318, 182 ... on the ground .... and all in the first half of that season. That was his 4th year. That scares the hell out of me. This is a running division, and more importantly, it is a power running division. If we don't stop the run, we'll be in for long, long days.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
He replaced all of the bigger players on defense with smaller fast guy who got their asses handed to them when teams started pounding them with the run game.
Dick Jauron wouldn't be the head coach. He would be the defensive coordinator. And with that position I'm sure he would have some say in the type of player that would be drafted. I'm also sure that Heckert would overrule him if he thought the player that was wanted was not good enough or too small.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415 |
I still have some concerns.
I hope that your thinking works ..... but the DC will have some input as far as what kind of players he wants, and how they'll fit on the field. The GM isn't just going to pick players without having any idea how the DC wants to use them.
If you're going to hire a guy who runs a specific defense, you're going to let him run the defense he runs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 |
Jauron got his first gig as a HC because he was a very succesful DC. Good OC or DC does not meen you will be succesful HC. So in reverse....being a bad HC does not mean you no longer can be a good coordinator. Look in our own division...... You guys are all hooked up on GREAT coordinator...GREAT head coach and vice versa when hiring a OC or DC. WRONG!! Tomlin - Hired as a Db coach i think. He was as i remember hired more from his Knowledge and approach to the game than his experience and success as a coordinator...which i think never was. Harbaugh - Who ever even heard of him????? M Lewis - VERY good DC and was hired on that. Hasent been the most successful HC. We could play this all day long. We no longer are in the day where you must make your way up the ranks and be a successful coordinator to become a HC. Those days are gone folks! It still happens....just not a understood requirement anymore. With all this being said....i'm not estatic with the hire either but since when does a coach have to be a splash to be successful? The positive is we have had 2 guys with the same mind frame for 1 year with Heckert and Holmgren. Now we have the 3rd. GO TO WORK COACH SHURMUR!!!! 
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
Harbaugh - Who ever even heard of him?????
Anyone who had ever played Franchise mode in Madden and wanted the best ST Coach available...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767 |
Would some feel better had he entered the conference room juggling while riding a unicycle and belting the Browns fight song on a kazoo stuck in his arse?!
What's a guy got to do to impress on his first visit?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I was thinking the same thing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415 |
Jauron's been DC in 2 places, Jacksonville and Detroit.
He did a really nice job building a defense in Jacksonville. They got, if you remember, a ton of extra picks and pieces that we never got in out expansion package. He coached there through 1998. Ironically, their best year, by far, on defense was 1999 when they ranked 1st in scoring defense and 4th overall. That was the year after he left. Jauron's 4 years there were average ..... but that was good with an expansion team.
His 2 years with Detroit as DC were ..... fairly in line with the rest of Detroit history. He worked there 2 years, the head coach got fired, and he got the Buffalo gig.
Jauron, oddly enough, has been a head coach longer than he's been a DC.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Besides Juron, what other DCs are there? It's obvious Ryan isnt staying here, beyond promoting some up and coming assistant to DC, who is there?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I know Wannstedt has been mentioned. Haven't heard any position coaches mentioned as possibilities for our DC job.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415 |
I wish I had a list of available guys.
I thin that we need to go with an experienced guy. I would love a guy like Todd Bowles in Miami ... but Miami liked him enough to slap an "assistant head coach" tag on him.
I just have concerns about Jauron. No matter who else is, or is not available, those concerns remain if he winds up being our guy.
Edit: I forgot about Dave Wannstedt. I think that he'd be a strong DC candidate.
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 01/14/11 01:52 PM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 |
Im not all that enamored with who any of the coaches are. Untill the talant is here....it wont matter.
80% players
20% coaching
IMO....thats being modest.....
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 67
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 67 |
Quote:
Yeah. Not as much class coming out of Berea it seems.
I just lost alot of respect for Heckert and the last few shreds I had for Holmgren over that classless crap. Hey Tom, this isn't Philly, we don't want dog killing gangbangers or loud mouth cancer WR's here.
Jeez Randy you sure know how to pick 'em.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
Im not all that enamored with who any of the coaches are. Untill the talant is here....it wont matter.
80% players
20% coaching
IMO....thats being modest.....
I thought it was 80% Mental and 40% Physical?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah. Not as much class coming out of Berea it seems.
I just lost alot of respect for Heckert and the last few shreds I had for Holmgren over that classless crap. Hey Tom, this isn't Philly, we don't want dog killing gangbangers or loud mouth cancer WR's here.
Jeez Randy you sure know how to pick 'em.
I missed it, what was said?
I had it on in the background, and the three of them are really boring talkers... So i kind of zoned out on it...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Hey Tom, this isn't Philly, we don't want dog killing gangbangers or loud mouth cancer WR's here.
I'd take a dog killing gangbanger if his name was Michael Vick.
And gangbanger? Come on. He's black, he hangs out with other black people. At one time he participated in illegal activity. Criminal? Yes. Ex-Convict? Yes. Gangbanger? No.
Quote:
loud mouth cancer WR's here.
Didn't they make the Super Bowl that year? The next year they went 6-10, but that was mostly because McNabb only started 9 games and not because T.O. went nuts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah. Not as much class coming out of Berea it seems.
I just lost alot of respect for Heckert and the last few shreds I had for Holmgren over that classless crap. Hey Tom, this isn't Philly, we don't want dog killing gangbangers or loud mouth cancer WR's here.
Jeez Randy you sure know how to pick 'em.
Uh, what?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah. Not as much class coming out of Berea it seems.
I just lost alot of respect for Heckert and the last few shreds I had for Holmgren over that classless crap. Hey Tom, this isn't Philly, we don't want dog killing gangbangers or loud mouth cancer WR's here.
Jeez Randy you sure know how to pick 'em.
Uh, what?
+1
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415 |
Heckert said something along the lines of "Of course we want players who are smart and hard working. Unlike some, that's not all we want."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
j/c
Nothing in the presser particularly impressive, enlightening or informative. A lot of spin, evasive double talk, deferments and hope filled rhetoric. In other words, business as usual. Can't expect much more. Time and performance on the field will only tell the true tale.
Couple things that stuck out in my mind.
1) Holmgren didn't know Shurmur was a co-client. Bull-poopy.
2) More than three interviews would be a "waste of time". More bull-poopy.
3) Shurmur calling the plays does not instill confidence.
4) Neither does returning to a 4-3 D.
5) The fact that there will be substantial turnover in player personnel sets us back, at least a little, due to a limited number of available draft picks and FA's. Not that turnover will is a bad thing, per se, just that the "new coach turnover" volume will probably hit especially hard since it will be coupled with the need to re-tool the D in to a 4-3. Instead of being a hand full of players away, we're more like two handfuls of starters and a half dozen or so backups. Tough to accomplish in one year, so we're probably looking at another two to three year rebuild just to get the caliber of personnel we need in place to compete in this division.
5) Introducing two entirely new systems and a (fairly) new team to the toughest division in the league makes it seem to me that we're somewhere near where we were, progress-wise, a year or two ago. No reason to reasonably expect rapid advancement in the W-L.
Don't crap your pants folks, it's JMHO.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
So Heckert said what pretty much all of us have been saying for some time?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767 |
What's wrong with that?  Mangini is a rich man. You guys play the violin music for him if you wish, I just want to win! Get some football players in here and if a few are a bit rough around the edges, so be it!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
Quote:
Heckert said something along the lines of "Of course we want players who are smart and hard working. Unlike some, that's not all we want."
Thank YOU!!
you don't want just anyone on your team, but some of the guys need to have some attitude out there on the field.. Guys that get reved up when another team talks trash, and not always be buddy buddy. Guys that can motivate by their play on the field.
Tenacity.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415 |
The way he said it came off as a big slam on Mangini's philosophy. It was rather classless they way he said it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Nothing in the presser particularly impressive, enlightening or informative
Some of it was U missed it.Of course there's going to be turnover..getting rid of worthless and over the hill players.But the passing game will up graded.They want to be explosive.
Somethings cannot be answered today.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767 |
4) Neither does returning to a 4-3 D. Is this because our 3-4 was so dominate? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111 |
Honest question, not trying to fling poo here.
The way you heard him say it, or the way you read someone else heard him say it?
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517 |
i saw heckert say it, and it looked like he had some body language to go with it that was kinda a slam to mangini
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Watching it, I thought the same thing.
But really, who cares?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
4) Neither does returning to a 4-3 D.
Is this because our 3-4 was so dominate?
No, it's because a good 3-4 is. Offers more flexibility in disguising fronts, rushing the passer, and dropping into coverage. Think rat's, pit & NE as examples of the 3-4 at its best. I know you're being sarcastic, but in many opinions, (not just my own,) it's just a much better, more athletic base to operate from. We needed to upgrade our talent level, not retool the D.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111 |
well, since there seems to be a few people complaining about lack of class for some reason. Personally I don't care if it was meant as a slam or not, just curious. And I was asking because I would definitely trust the eyes of folks on here over the hacks/witch hunters at the PD, for better or worse.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pat Shurmur introductory press
conference...
|
|
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
