|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
I don't see what all the hubbub is about.. Heckert said nothing that even remotely could be considered a slam against mangini..
This sounds more like a case of someone wanting to find somthing wrong and just twisting things to meet that need... A non story in my view.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,550
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,550 |
When watching it live, i took it as a jab also.
Anyway I think DND was right in the comparison of Shurmur to Urban. HE has that same confident methodical approach.
No matter what anyone thinks of Shurmur, Holmgren and Heckert, having everyone within this organization on the same page should not be underestimated. This is the best setup we have had in place. One focus, one direction and one philosophy might just turn this thing around.
I like Colt and this guy just coached a style that is perfect for Colt. we need Colt to succeed and Shurmur is his best chance for success.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
I did not watch the pressers ... only read them here, but am I mistaken in that Shurmur's and Heckert's comments on Colt were somewhat glowing ... maybe that's too strong a word ... but it was definitely a departure from Holmgren's assessment at the end of the season.
I'd like to move forward with Colt, and it sounds like that's what we'll be doing. I found their comments encouraging in that regard.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
j/c..
i just heard it, and there is nothing wrong with what Heckert said.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 67
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 67 |
Quote:
J/C
Who said this dude sounded and looked "Nervous"???
U gotta b kidding...
This dude spreads nothing but CONFIDENCE...And a WINNING mentality...
A CHAMPIONSHIP Wining Mentality...
He reminds me of a cross between Urban Meyer and Tom Coughlin...
BTW...I heard and saw NOTHING about what Heckert said as any type of slam on Mangini...Not even close... 
You obviously don't know how to read people. He was nervous.
A championship winning mentality isn't "i THINK we can turn it around" or "we're going to try to" type stuff. That isn't someone confident in their ability. That's the mentality of someone realizing they're in over their head.
Write it down, we'll be rebuilding again in four years and Shurmur will be back to being a QB coach in Philly.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
I swear on the live version someone said "unlike some people" and it really sounded like a jab at EM. I WOULD BET MONEY ON IT!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 147
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 147 |
I'm glad you watching a press conference can see more about a person then an interview that Heckert and Holmgren conducted in a private setting where they talked in-depth about the direction, and philosophies that will make this a winning organization
You are so negative right now you must be trying to be the new Django. I guarantee you that Shurmur doesn't think he is in over his head to say anything to the contrary is ridiculous and shows the type of attitude you would have had regardless who we brought in.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
Listen to the audio instead of reading it.
I was quite taken aback by the way he said it.
I do agree that it can only be a positive that the coach and GM share a philosophy, and that the GM will know exactly what players will, and will not fit.
I hope this thing works. I am sick and tired of starting over every couple of years.
I watched the whole thing early on. As I was re-watching it to get Heckert's exact quote for my post the transcript was posted and that saved me time.
I speculated on what might be the reason for why he said it. But like much of the commentary from everyone it ends at speculation.
The thing about sharing the philosophy and the Bob LaMonte thing is that nearly all his clients share the same philosophy. He wrote a book about it titled, "Winning the NFL Way", which I just purchased this morning. Ron Wolf, former GM of the Packers when Holmgren was there also wrote a book on the same subject titled, "The Packer Way" which eotab begged us to read several years ago when Policy brought in Ron Wolf to consult Butch Davis, (who Davis ignored until he left in disgust), which I also purchased this morning.
Bob LaMonte is not of the Drew Rosenhaus ilk, or the the infamous Poston brothers, (remember K2's agents), who are simply in it for the money. He's in it for the success of the philosophy as well. In an excerpt I read from his book he states that he doesn't accept someone as a client simply based on their talent and ability to command big money, although some of them do, he requires that they have the proper mindset of a winning way and a philosophy to succeed.
It's hard to avoid LaMonte's clients in the NFL. As Holmgren said in the press conference, he represents a lot of NFL people...
Some of LaMonte's clients include:
* Mike Holmgren (Cleveland Browns President)
* Brad Childress (Former Minnesota Vikings Head Coach)
* John Fox Former Carolina Panthers Head Coach, Current Denver Broncos Head Coach
* Josh McDaniels (Former Denver Broncos Head Coach)
* Andy Reid (Philadelphia Eagles Head Coach/Executive VP)
* Mike Singletary (Former San Francisco 49ers Head Coach)
* Steve Spagnuolo (St. Louis Rams Head Coach)
* Mike Sherman (Texas A&M Aggies football Head Coach)
* Charlie Weis (Kansas City Chiefs Offensive Coordinator)
* Mike Martz (Chicago Bears Offensive Coordinator)
* Mike Nolan (Miami Dolphins Defensive Coordinator)
* Al Saunders (Baltimore Ravens Offensive Consultant)
* Gunther Cunningham (Detroit Lions Defensive Coordinator)
* Leslie Frazier (Minnesota Vikings Head Coach)
* Mike Heimerdinger (Tennessee Titans Offensive Coordinator)
* Mike McCoy (Denver Broncos Offensive Coordinator)
* Marty Mornhinweg (Philadelphia Eagles Offensive Coordinator)
* Pat Shurmur (Former St. Louis Rams Offensive Coordinator, Current Cleveland Browns Head Coach)
* Tom Heckert (Cleveland Browns General Manager)
* Chris Polian (Indianapolis Colts General Manager)
* Mark Dominik (Tampa Bay Buccaneers General Manager)
* Rick Smith (Houston Texans General Manager)
* Chris Carpenter (St. Louis Cardinals Pitcher)
* Pat Hentgen (Former Toronto Blue Jays Pitcher)
* Dave Steib (Former Toronto Blue Jays Pitcher)
* Joe Nedney (San Francisco 49ers Placekicker)
* Jon Gruden (ESPN Analyst for Monday Night Football)
wiki
That's a lot of coaches and general managers. Kinda hard to avoid some good people. Some of these guys are coaches that some our message board faithful wanted to see here. Once they'd found out they were Bob LaMonte's clients would that have changed their minds?
But what's important here is that for the first time since the Browns return everyone is on the same page philosophically. There is no need for any one to have to "buy into" anything or to accept anything at face value. They already do and have been using that philosophy throughout their careers.
Is it the right one? Well, it has been successful as a look over the above client list can testify. Is it the only successful philosophy? Of course not! But in the hiring of Holmgren to set up the organization this is the one we get. I certainly do think we could have done worse as we have since our return where not one of our regimes were ever on the same page with each other at any time.
I'm not going to rehash history because we're all familiar with the failings of each regime and their respective leaders pushing their own agenda. (Yes, I used mac's favorite word!)
At least now we stand a chance.
And like you I'm sick and tired of starting over every couple of years. I've always stood for, preached and adamantly pounded my keyboard to not fire a coach citing various situations and circumstances that were out of the coaches control that had to be overcome for the regime to bear fruit. But fire them we did.
And when we picked a new coach there was never a football man doing the choosing. It was always someone who had no business taking that responsibility.
Still...
Our only coach so far that I've considered acutely responsible for the team's failures has been Mangini. Lord knows I've posted my grievances over the past month so no need to post them again. Besides, he's gone. And just like that last cup of coffee I drank from my morning pot... he ain't coming back.
Now I find it my duty as the Browns fan that I am to find out as much as I can, to learn all I can find, to be as informed as possible as we move forward. At least that is now possible since everyone is of one mind, of one philosophy, in one direction toward one goal. It was a little hard to do that before since our organizations have always been a mish-mash of personalities, philosophies, agendas and always lacking any true leadership based on football experience.
Yeah, I'm sick of change and I'm sick of losing just like you are. Like you and everyone else I can't guarantee anything. But of all the times I thought things were looking up, this time it looks like it has real rather than imagined potential.
In the words of Tiny Tim, "God bless us everyone."
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
Quote:
Quote:
J/C
Who said this dude sounded and looked "Nervous"???
U gotta b kidding...
This dude spreads nothing but CONFIDENCE...And a WINNING mentality...
A CHAMPIONSHIP Wining Mentality...
He reminds me of a cross between Urban Meyer and Tom Coughlin...
BTW...I heard and saw NOTHING about what Heckert said as any type of slam on Mangini...Not even close...
You obviously don't know how to read people. He was nervous.
A championship winning mentality isn't "i THINK we can turn it around" or "we're going to try to" type stuff. That isn't someone confident in their ability. That's the mentality of someone realizing they're in over their head.
Write it down, we'll be rebuilding again in four years and Shurmur will be back to being a QB coach in Philly.
LMAO...U r one of these sorry asses that can't get over Mangini being axed...
Sorry dude...WAY OFF BASE...
Maybe YOU need to go back to "Reading People 101"...Cause that dude was FAR FAR from nervous...
U guys kill me...Litterally...WOW...
Go Browns!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
I agree. He wasn't nervous.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317 |
Looks to me like King of Kings is to Pat Shurmur what Django was to Eric Mangini
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Some of LaMonte's clients include:
* Mike Holmgren (Cleveland Browns President)
* Brad Childress (Former Minnesota Vikings Head Coach)
* John Fox Former Carolina Panthers Head Coach, Current Denver Broncos Head Coach
* Josh McDaniels (Former Denver Broncos Head Coach)
* Andy Reid (Philadelphia Eagles Head Coach/Executive VP)
* Mike Singletary (Former San Francisco 49ers Head Coach)
* Steve Spagnuolo (St. Louis Rams Head Coach)
* Mike Sherman (Texas A&M Aggies football Head Coach)
* Charlie Weis (Kansas City Chiefs Offensive Coordinator)
* Mike Martz (Chicago Bears Offensive Coordinator)
* Mike Nolan (Miami Dolphins Defensive Coordinator)
* Al Saunders (Baltimore Ravens Offensive Consultant)
* Gunther Cunningham (Detroit Lions Defensive Coordinator)
* Leslie Frazier (Minnesota Vikings Head Coach)
* Mike Heimerdinger (Tennessee Titans Offensive Coordinator)
* Mike McCoy (Denver Broncos Offensive Coordinator)
* Marty Mornhinweg (Philadelphia Eagles Offensive Coordinator)
* Pat Shurmur (Former St. Louis Rams Offensive Coordinator, Current Cleveland Browns Head Coach)
* Tom Heckert (Cleveland Browns General Manager)
* Chris Polian (Indianapolis Colts General Manager)
* Mark Dominik (Tampa Bay Buccaneers General Manager)
* Rick Smith (Houston Texans General Manager)
* Chris Carpenter (St. Louis Cardinals Pitcher)
* Pat Hentgen (Former Toronto Blue Jays Pitcher)
* Dave Steib (Former Toronto Blue Jays Pitcher)
* Joe Nedney (San Francisco 49ers Placekicker)
* Jon Gruden (ESPN Analyst for Monday Night Football)
I was really hoping they would hire Pat Hentgen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Yeah, you're right, you have to go pretty dang far down that list to find someone who ain't badass.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Well Brad Childress is 2nd on the list. So if you skip him, then go down the list... 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511 |
Quote:
Well Brad Childress is 2nd on the list. So if you skip him, then go down the list...
excellent coordinator... bad HC....
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Excellent coordinator, if he's not calling plays like in Philadelphia. Hey! He wouldn't call plays here either hmmmm...
(One of Favre's problems with Chilly was his play calling)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802 |
I'm personally glad to see us going the route of constructing something more organic and of our own stamp compared to the rest of our division. It just seems like we've clung to the standards set by the Ravens and Steelers at the top of our division where people are concerned about going away from the closest models for success. That's why I think there's so much complaining about seeing the 3-4 go and the offense not being as bulky and strictly power-running game oriented. Simply copying what a bully does doesn't mean your geeky third grade son with the taped frames is going to simply get bigger, mimic his movements and punches, and knock him out once the boy adds weight and grows. Now if you can find and develop your own strengths to counteract the bully, you'll have a better shot of taking him down. Whether that's from the kid discovering he's a squirrelly, agile Brazilian jujitsu-ist or future rocket scientist who attaches an anvil to a miniature airplane to fly into his temple, attacking with his own style makes him stronger at what he does or makes the bully adjust to unfamiliar conditions.
I'm just saying, that although I like the looks you get out of your 3-4 and the physicality from really emphasizing the smashmouth running game, what we're putting in place seems a better fit to beat them. Rather than finding it imperative to run the ball over the Casey Hamptons, Haloti Ngatas, James Harrisons, Woodleys, Ray Lewis', Keisels, Suggs, etc. and the blitzes brought, systematically beat them with a better, more precise passing game. I think we're going to have more competency in picking up blitzes with all the quick checkdowns in the more intermediate range. Better pre-snap adjustments, hot routes, screen game, down-field attack, etc. We're not going to lose that balance in moving the ball on the ground (just a WCO misconception) and with a few more acquisitions at wide out we'll be more explosive, as well. Although we didn't have the pieces yet, a stamp of Mangini's teams has been that they weren't built to come from behind. In today's NFL, that's just a necessity. You don't just fix that by yelling at the TV/Radio, "Well get Haskell's old ass out of the advisin' booth and back to callin' plays!"
I know past success (which seems to be getting viewed shallowly IMO as limited to W-L record, rings, and other overly obvious tangibles; as opposed to fully analyzing the situations coaches worked in: ala RAC's rather overblown role under Belichick) and carbon copying close models for winning should seem indicative of future results. It's not always the case. Watching us try twice in a row plucking from the Belichick tree (which includes no one now with a head-coaching job), the Dolphins become Jets/Patriots Light Beer, us still behind the Rats/Stoolers with the same scheme attempts, things of that nature... It brings me back to the simple point I'm happy with. It's going to be a football team with an identity designed to counter our rivals strengths and weaknesses. I view it almost like fighting guerrilla warfare as opposed to trying to stockpile the same bombs our enemy has. When you end up not cashing in on the draft like we have and fail at mimicking their style, that's how you lose the cold wars we have on the gridiron. Enough copying, playing not to lose and not taking chances. Counteract and attack!
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
Quote:
You obviously don't know how to read people. He was nervous.
I watched it live,, didn't think he was nervous
I rewatched it again,, didn't think he was nervous
Read the text of the presser.. I didn't sense any nervousness in the dialog.
I interview people for a living,,, I DO know how to read facial expressions..
For what it's worth, I don't believe he was nervous.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
Quote:
Jon Gruden (ESPN Analyst for Monday Night Football)
Just a thought.. how many people would have said it was because he was a Lamonte client if Holmgren would have hired Gruden?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Are you really comparing the head coaching credentials of Jon Gruden and Pat Shurmur?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,133 |
Quote:
Quote:
You obviously don't know how to read people. He was nervous.
I watched it live,, didn't think he was nervous
I rewatched it again,, didn't think he was nervous
Read the text of the presser.. I didn't sense any nervousness in the dialog.
I interview people for a living,,, I DO know how to read facial expressions..
For what it's worth, I don't believe he was nervous.
You must have missed the first part. I used to assess behaviors for a living, and for the first 15 minutes that guy was nervous as hell. Watch his eyes jerk back and forth continuosly....I would have been on red alert. He was sitting like a statue, stammering with a memorized script. I don't fault him, he's in unfamiliar surroundings and under a microscope.
I was happy to see that as the presser progressed, he did calm down and became much more animated and confident. We definitely can't determine much from that interview.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
Just a thought.. how many people would have said it was because he was a Lamonte client if Holmgren would have hired Gruden?
Quote:
Are you really comparing the head coaching credentials of Jon Gruden and Pat Shurmur?
How did you get THAT out of that?!
He was simply referring that a lot of fans wanted Gruden and it would have been a great hire and no one would have given a crap that he was LaMonte's client. In fact, I think a whole bunch of them would have seen the good in it. But hire Shurmur and all the cries of nepotism and filling an agents pockets come up big while only a few see the positive in that.
There are other LaMonte clients Holmgren could have hired who had more experience and a lot of fans were hoping on a couple of them. But he didn't hire them. He hired the guy he wanted.
The agent had nothing to do with the hire. The shared philosophy had everything to do with it. Being an offensive coach had everything to do with it. Being young and hungry and motivated had everything to do with it. Having worked with Heckert and Reid had everything to do with it.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You obviously don't know how to read people. He was nervous.
I watched it live,, didn't think he was nervous
I rewatched it again,, didn't think he was nervous
Read the text of the presser.. I didn't sense any nervousness in the dialog.
I interview people for a living,,, I DO know how to read facial expressions..
For what it's worth, I don't believe he was nervous.
You must have missed the first part. I used to assess behaviors for a living, and for the first 15 minutes that guy was nervous as hell. Watch his eyes jerk back and forth continuosly....I would have been on red alert. He was sitting like a statue, stammering with a memorized script. I don't fault him, he's in unfamiliar surroundings and under a microscope.
I was happy to see that as the presser progressed, he did calm down and became much more animated and confident. We definitely can't determine much from that interview.
I didn't miss anything,, I have an opinion and I've voiced it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
Quote:
Are you really comparing the head coaching credentials of Jon Gruden and Pat Shurmur?
Were you dropped on your head as a child? 
No, I wasn't comparing them to each other at all.. I was talking about both being represented by lamonte.. The question is, would people have made a big deal out of it if Gruden had been hired instead of Shumur.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
Quote:
Are you really comparing the head coaching credentials of Jon Gruden and Pat Shurmur?
Were you dropped on your head as a child?
No, I wasn't comparing them to each other at all.. I was talking about both being represented by lamonte.. The question is, would people have made a big deal out of it if Gruden had been hired instead of Shumur.
I know exactly what you were talking about. And my question is perfectly relevant. Jon Gruden has a sizeable measure of experience and success as a head coach at the NFL level. Hiring him would obviously be based upon his resumé and his past accomplishments. People wouldn't make a big deal because he's proven as a head coach.
Shurmur has no such qualifications and, as such, the inference can be made that he and Holmgren's shared agent representation played some sort of role in his hire as head coach.
Sorry you aren't able to see the difference between the two. Take your wiseass comments and smileys and cram them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
IMO, anybody who thinks this guy was hired because of his agent, is a fool.
Holmgren even stated in the presser that he didn't even know Lamonte was his agent. He even went out of his way to clear this up, so I believe that it probably irked him somewhat that the media and fans would question his integrity by suggesting that was the reason for the hire.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415 |
Personally, I think that Holmgren knew. I think he told a little white lie there.
He would almost have had to have gone to his agent/advisor to ask him how hard he thought it would be to put together a deal for the guy .... who his agent was ... etc.
I don't think that the fact that they have the same agent played into Shurmur's selection, but I also don't believe that Holmgren had "no idea" that they were both Lamonte clients.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
I don't think that the fact that they have the same agent played into Shurmur's selection, but I also don't believe that Holmgren had "no idea" that they were both Lamonte clients.
This. I don't think that he was hired because of who his agent was, but I have a real hard time buying that Mike Holmgren had no idea.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 67
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 67 |
Quote:
LMAO...U r one of these sorry asses that can't get over Mangini being axed...
First it's "you are" not "U r." That out of the way it has nothing to do with Mangini. Zero. Zip. Nada. Zilch.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 67
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 67 |
Quote:
Looks to me like King of Kings is to Pat Shurmur what Django was to Eric Mangini
I don't know Django or what he was to Eric Mangini, can you elaborate?
Last edited by King Of Kings; 01/16/11 12:22 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
He said he didn't know until he was told by either Lamonte or Shurmur, I'm not sure which one. But the fact was that he was chosen not because of the agent.
FWIW, I find it hard to believe Holmgren would lie about something as petty as this. Only agenda minded fans and media are making a fuss about the agent thing. When putting together an organization, you tend to look for familiarity with your own beliefs. If Lamonte has so many good clients, and Holmgren is aware of this, I can't see what would be wrong with using his knowledge of quality coaches as a tool in finding the right guy.
IMO many of you guys seem to think there is always an alterior motive to everything, personally I don't get it. Until Holmgren does something to convince me that he doesn't possess the integrity I think he has, I am willing to take his word at face value.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415 |
I'm sure that Holmgren didn't want it to be an issue, so he tried to defuse it.
I don't think it's an issue, but I also don't think that he was as ignorant of the association as he says he was. Look, as soon as Shumur's name came out as a potential candidate, the press was all over the fact that he was represented by the same agent as Holmgren. Do I believe that the press knew and Holmgren didn't? Not a chance. Tom Withers stated on Friday the 7th, the night that Holmgren and Shurmur met that he was a client of Lamonte's. Shurmur's name was released as a candidate on the 6th. I doubt that the press knew more than Holmgren did.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Who cares if he lied about it?
Coaches lie in press conferences all the time.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
Holmgren even stated in the presser that he didn't even know Lamonte was his agent.
I agree. He did say that when they made their first list, the long list, he didn't know.
Since I'm not in that circle of profession I don't know if when introduced to someone if one of the first questions is "who is your agent?". Somehow I doubt they share pictures of their agents like grandparents might share pictures of their grandchildren.
Is that something important enough to even ask about just because you communicate on occasion? I don't know but I doubt it ever comes up unless it's of some importance. Having put the guy on your list because of his coaching qualities then it becomes important. There may be agents you don't want to deal with and it's easy to scrub someone from your long list at that point. But I somehow trust Holmgren enough that if he said that then it was honest.
Too, all it would take to make him a liar would be for Shurmur or LaMonte or Heckert to let it slip that one or the other told Holmgren that fact some time previous to Holmgren's comment. In other words, it would damn near take a conspiracy to keep that simple who-gives-a-damn fact a secret. I don't think Holmgren would put others in that position. Any one of knows and understands that if we are in a small group that knows a fact and we lie about it then they all have to keep that lie just to keep our initial lie appear honest. I do believe they do that sort of thing regarding important issues, but not something so trivial as that.
The only people who even care about it are the blood sucking media looking for a nepotism story or fans doing the same thing. I doubt very highly that Holmgren gives a crap who thinks what other than those in the building in Berea.
I'd like to believe that if Holmgren did know who Shurmur's agent was at the time they made their big list then he would have said so and immediately struck it down as not important enough to make it a criteria in the hiring and if anyone wanted to disbelieve him or try to make is more important than it really is then have at it. He doesn't mince words much nor does he seem like a man who needs to hide behind untruths. Especially such very small ones.
Me, I'm glad they have the same agent.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Are you really comparing the head coaching credentials of Jon Gruden and Pat Shurmur?
Were you dropped on your head as a child?
No, I wasn't comparing them to each other at all.. I was talking about both being represented by lamonte.. The question is, would people have made a big deal out of it if Gruden had been hired instead of Shumur.
I know exactly what you were talking about. And my question is perfectly relevant. Jon Gruden has a sizeable measure of experience and success as a head coach at the NFL level. Hiring him would obviously be based upon his resumé and his past accomplishments. People wouldn't make a big deal because he's proven as a head coach.
Shurmur has no such qualifications and, as such, the inference can be made that he and Holmgren's shared agent representation played some sort of role in his hire as head coach.
Sorry you aren't able to see the difference between the two. Take your wiseass comments and smileys and cram them.
if you knew,, then why'd you ask that question.. no, I don't think you had any idea what I was talking about..
so you can cram your dumb questons
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Your argument only has any sort of relevance if the two coaches in question have the same credentials. As it stands, they have very different credentials, so your argument had no point and no merit. Nobody is going to claim that Gruden was hired simply based on his agent because he's proven to have success and experience as a head coach at the NFL level. A team that hires Jon Gruden is clearly hiring him based on those merits. Pat Shurmer has none of that, so its not a stretch the think that his representation could play a role in his hiring.
I would cram the dumb question, but I wasn't the one that asked it. You were. Your question was clearly either one of two things: a misguided apples-to-oranges comparison of two head coaching candidates with vastly different qualifications, or a weak trolling attempt. I assumed it was the former. Maybe I was wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
Quote:
Your argument only has any sort of relevance if the two coaches in question have the same credentials. As it stands, they have very different credentials, so your argument had no point and no merit. Nobody is going to claim that Gruden was hired simply based on his agent because he's proven to have success and experience as a head coach at the NFL level. A team that hires Jon Gruden is clearly hiring him based on those merits. Pat Shurmer has none of that, so its not a stretch the think that his representation could play a role in his hiring.
I would cram the dumb question, but I wasn't the one that asked it. You were. Your question was clearly either one of two things: a misguided apples-to-oranges comparison of two head coaching candidates with vastly different qualifications, or a weak trolling attempt. I assumed it was the former. Maybe I was wrong.
You really don't understand at all do you.. Geesh.. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COACHING TALENT OR RECORD.. Get it.
My comment was ONLY about the person representing them..
Damn man,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
You said: Quote:
Just a thought.. how many people would have said it was because he was a Lamonte client if Holmgren would have hired Gruden?
I said that nobody would have said (and I'm using a direct quote from you here) "it was because he was a Lamonte client if Holmgren would have hired Gruden" because Jon Gruden is a PROVEN HEAD COACH with different credentials than Pat Shurmur. You can't compare the two situations because their credentials are entirely different. You're treating them as if they're the same.
I'm sorry that you can't have a discussion without making comments like "were you dropped on your head as a child?" How old are you again?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
I give up you are right about everything.. even if you are wrong.. you are still right.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
This isn't a case of being right or wrong about anything. I perceived an implication in your question and replied with a question of my own regarding that implication. Your response to my question was asking me if I had been dropped on my head as a child. I've spent several posts and far too much of my time explaining my perception of the question you asked, and your continued response is simply that I "don't get it".
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pat Shurmur introductory press
conference...
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
