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Knight, I'm with you on Pioli.
Unfortunately Junior thought that this team was "a team with 7 Pro Bowlers" instead of the truth that Pioli gave him.
Plus Junior went with Mangini, who I like, but Pioli wouldn't have worked with.
Thank you Ammo!
i am glad i am not the only 1 who seen it! Pioli was spot on and he would have been able to fix this mess. He is more qualified then Holmgren to be a President and fix things here, what he has done in KC is nothing short of remarkable.
the Cheifs will be the Patriots 2.0....the Patriots of the AFc West..A good solid all around team that will compete.....Cassel will be there another year or 2 while Pioli finishes the Defense and a few pieces on O and then they will draft their tom Brady and develop him.
the cheifs are being built "the right way" and will be competitive for a very long time.
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LOL Thanks for having some fun with KoB.. I was wondering who was going to either blast him or make fun of him.
yeah yeah, because that is just so productive.
oh well, whatever
I really hope I don't have to sit around and watch this organization flounder like a fish out of water for the next 4 years.....this is just getting much
look King wrote a long post above me...thats a big part of it
you folks just don't get it...we still don't have a sound structure...we are the worst run franchise in the NFL....terrible
firing someone is a "last resort" don't you get it? we only invested 2 years in Mangini....2....and we didn't even give him a chance to turn the team around...he was rebuilding our team...he got rid of guys like Edwards and Winslow, and all the crybabies...he was trying to replace them with good, solid, hard working guys that will work as a team to win
He never got a chance to even get half way through what he started
Mangini had us on the right track...it may not have shown up in the win column, but we was in "every game" and injuries derailed us more then anything....he beat the Saints and Pats with a mostly healthy roster..he took the Jets to the wire...we should have won...this team easily could have won 10 games with a few ball bounces...we were so close.
There is no gurantee Shurmur works out....we have been set back at least another 4 years Daman
this is a complete tear down and rebuild..we will NOT be competitive next year at all....we have hardly any personell to run a 4-3...we lack most of the personell for a WCO....we will not compete for the playoffs next year at all
if we would have kept Mangini and added a few more pieces...we would have at least been in the mix.....we gave up too soon...we never gave him enough time to finish what he started.
Look i was the biggest Mangini detractor there was...maybe moreso then Django..but after the Saints and Pats game I was "flashes" of what was being built here...it was starting to come to the surface....you have no idea how close this team was to turning the corner and we threw it all away.....
its frustrating...we gave up too soon....
make fun of me if you want, but I know what i saw...
so whatever....im tired of giving up on things too soon.....I don't like quitters, this organization quit on Mangini....his "process" was working...he just need a little more time and a few more pieces....its extremely disheartening to be starting all over again
Look at the Steelers...cowher had a few losing seasons, the Rooney's stuck with him and worked through them....we never stick with anybody long enough to have a chance....even so with Romeo Crennell....he finally turns the corner and wins 10 games, gets awarded a contract extension and is then fired less then a year later...IT MAKES NO SENSE...im tired of this
why cna't we let our coaches coach for the duration of their contract...Eric is still getting paid...it makes no sense...its assine....
The media never gave Mangini a chance from the get go....after all the growing pains we suffered in 09 "The Process" was finally starting to take hold...we were a few pieces away
now were doing a complete teardown.....how do you like the prospects of another 3-4 years of losing football? are you not tired of it yet? I know I am
enough said....im sick of non-competitive football and rebuilds....this was a test to stay the course and we failed....
this is a complete a total teardown and rebuild...so we will have to sit through 3-4 years of roster tunrover and garbage football and HOPE it works out.
of course even with Shurmur...you all will be ready to fire him come year 4 even if he is making progress...he will sufer the same fate as Mangini....we never give our coaches enough time to build something...2 years is NOT enough time I don't give a darn what Mike Holmgren says he is WRONG
you hear that Mike Holmgren..your WRONG!
lets give you 2 years Mike Holmgren to build something before we run you out of town ...that would be only fair right? afterall you only gave Mangini 2 years.....right?
what will be your excuse when Shurmur posts a 4-12 record next year...you said you expect to win right? what will be your excuse Mike Holmgren...."oh were rebuilding" wasn't that what Eric Mangini was doing?
this is just insane!
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Refering to Romeo in favor of your argument is not the way to go. People have different opinions on the situation, and nothings going to change them. I wanted Mangini to stay, but towards the end of the season, losing games the way we did, I was OK with him going. And now he's gone so... It's all up to you Pat Shurmur. You're the guy now. Nothings going to change that. I'd just prefer some people not mock others just because their opinion is different. But hey why contribute to a discussion when you can   and 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I wanted Mangini to stay, but towards the end of the season, losing games the way we did, I was OK with him going. And now he's gone so...
I 100% agree here. I thought if we could build something tough out of a bunch of FA's and backups that we would have a team that knew how to fight ... except we didn't. Now I believe anyone could argue that Holmy could have given Gini another few years to be fair ... but then again .. you don't bring in the CEO of Walmart to run BMW ... so why would you bring in Holmgren yet not let him put his stamp on the team?
I really think in the next few years changes will come if we are even *average* because if case you haven't noticed .. while we are getting pretty old in a few spots ... so is Pittsburgh and so is Baltimore. We are all going to be reloading ... and if Dick LeBeau retires in a year or two then it could make it that much *easier* for us to compete.
Obviously we can't hope for others to do bad, but at the same time we trusted in Holmgren by hiring him, now we at least need to let him see to running his own organization in his own style.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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LOL Thanks for having some fun with KoB.. I was wondering who was going to either blast him or make fun of him.
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yeah yeah, because that is just so productive.
Right,, and sitting here moaning about the coach being fired is productive as well... Gheesh
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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so is Pittsburgh and so is Baltimore. We are all going to be reloading ... and if Dick LeBeau retires in a year or two then it could make it that much *easier* for us to compete.
Obviously we can't hope for others to do bad,
Why the hell not? 
You think I would be too proud to go into the playoffs at 7-9 like the Seahawks? WRONG. Of course I'd rather go in as a 13 win team but hey, whatever it takes bro. 
yebat' Putin
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this is a complete tear down and rebuild..we will NOT be competitive next year at all....we have hardly any personell to run a 4-3...we lack most of the personell for a WCO....we will not compete for the playoffs next year at all
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now were doing a complete teardown.....how do you like the prospects of another 3-4 years of losing football? are you not tired of it yet? I know I am
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this is a complete a total teardown and rebuild...so we will have to sit through 3-4 years of roster tunrover and garbage football and HOPE it works out.
I don't think the changeover will be that bad. For one thing, Jackson and Roth both would have had to be re-signed with or without Mangini. If we re-sign both, we have a DE who i think might be more suited for the 4-3 (Roth) and a good WLB in Jackson for the 4-3. I don't see why Rubin can't play DT in 4-3, sure he is a NT. But he could be a 4-3 DT runstopper. Coleman might be able to do it too. I bet Schaffering played 4-3 DT at OSU. Shaun Rogers has experience in it (if we decide to continue to pay him). Fujita can play SSLB.
So we need a MLB, DE, and possibly another D-Lineman. Gocong played in the 4-3 in Philly too, although i'm not sure what position (I imagine SSLB?). Benard could still be a pass rush specialist on third downs. And I bet Trusnik could play 4-3 SSLB also.
I just sorta feel like switching from 3-4 to 4-3 might be easier than 4-3 to 3-4.And that's if we keep our RFA's from last year (who we would have had to replace anyway if we didn't keep them with Mangini)
As for the big deal about the switch to WCO. I don't see the big deal, Hillis is good at catching the ball, our WR's aren't that good anyway, and who's to say that they won't play better in the WCO. What about Massaquoi and Robiskie makes them bad for WCO? Chancey Stuckey's shiftiness and ability to work the slot seems to make sense in that offense. Besides Colt McCoy is better for the WCO also
I really don't expect 3-4 more years of bad football. Next year might not be better or much better than this year, but I imagine in two years we'll look better, and so on
And once again, do you have any evidence to show that Holmgren told Mangini he had to play Delhomme. I haven't heard Mangini say that, and I haven't heard that from Holmgren.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Jamir Howerton has an interview on the offical site with Shurmur. It's a full 1 minute and 39 seconds!!!
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Every guy that has run the Browns since '99 has done some good things and some bad. I've been able to sort out what I like and what I don't without letting it kill my ability to root for the Browns and see the bright side of things. Most of the time anyway.
But guys like Ytown and Oldcold don't seem to be able or willing to do that. After 2 weeks of their (and others) incessant moaning about Mangini's firing and the hiring of the new guy is there anyone that isn't getting tired of it? Is there anyone that thinks if Shurmur gets us on the winning track they won't give credit to Mangini instead? Or the flip side, if we come out under .500 is there any doubt they'll be calling for his head by the bye week?
At this point I think that everyone needs to take a deep breath and hope they get a new CBA before we worry about whether Eric Mangini got screwed or Pat Shurmur will take us to a Super Bowl in the next 2 years.
Who cares WHAT YOU ARE TIRED OF? We are all members of this board... Yes? We all have the right to express our opinions... Yes? As for "incessant moaning", I've already said several times that Mangini is gone and I can live with that, BUT when Holmgren bellies up to the podium and states he's going to bring in a coach that will take us to the big show... Then I expect this coach to do that... Holmgren and Company now need to deliver a Super Bowl.
If you have so much faith in the guy, THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS EXPECTATION. If I had all the faith you have in Holmgren, I'd drop 5K on the Browns to be in the Super Bowl next year or the year after... BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF FAITH DO YOU?
Nope.
You Trust him... Why? Because he was a good to great coach? I agree with that. BUT as the President he's not coaching... 
What has Holmgren done that makes you think he can turn Shurmur into the coach that takes us to a Super Bowl? Answer that.
What has Holmgren Done that makes you think this isn't just another reset?
What has Holmgren done that inspires so much hope that (as President) he will have the right stuff to turn the Browns around?
So far all I've seen is a lot of FO hires. He packed the FO with experience. I've also seen 1 decent draft... BUT still have to question rather that was a fluke or honest to goodness capability!
I've also seen him bring in Jake D. I've seen him say Colt would not play in 2010 than allow it. I've seen him get all happy with wins over NO and NE... BUT fire the coach that did it after injuries took their toll.
I also know he'll be the least experienced guy at the table who is involved in negotiating the new CBA...
He's a very good coach BUT that does not qualify him to be a very good President. Period.
Only time will tell. I'll give him time, but I'll be vocal when I think he's screwing up. He screwed up with Mangini.
So put down your pom poms and see the guy for what he is. I'll wait and see but the verdict is not going to be in for a long, long time.
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So put down your pom poms and see the guy for what he is. I'll wait and see but the verdict is not going to be in for a long, long time.
You bash the guy for not accepting your opinion, then you bash him for his.....nice double standard 
#gmstrong
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That's not bashing.... it's "incessant moaning".
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You don't understand ..... it was perfectly acceptable to bash Mangini for each and every decision he made ....... but to question any decision by Holmgren is blasphemy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If you have so much faith in the guy, THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS EXPECTATION. If I had all the faith you have in Holmgren, I'd drop 5K on the Browns to be in the Super Bowl next year or the year after... BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF FAITH DO YOU?
Nope.
Heh Heh....you have no idea what my betting habits are so if I were you I don't think I'd bet against me putting money on the Browns Super Bowl chances in the future. But you would be safe in saying I won't bet on them being there next year. Now 2012, who knows?
Certainly not you or Ytown. Yet you're both certain now that our new HC stinks and that Mangini got screwed. He got what 10-22 always gets you. Fired. Seriously, dude, he's 33-47 for his career. That's a .413 percentage. Great if you're a first baseman. Not so hot in the NFL.
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What has Holmgren done that makes you think he can turn Shurmur into the coach that takes us to a Super Bowl? Answer that.
Well, I already did, partially, but I'll try again. I don't think he's gonna turn anyone into anything. Shurmur is what he is. Whether he takes us to a SB remains to be seen. Homlgren and Heckert will assist him in any way they can. They were hired to do that and I trust that they will try their hardest to do just that. Their credentials say that they very well could be successful. I'm willing to give them a chance. You're not (not really). That's OK, you're entitled to feel that way. Just don't pee in my cereal and tell me it's milk.
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I've also seen him bring in Jake D. I've seen him say Colt would not play in 2010 than allow it. I've seen him get all happy with wins over NO and NE... BUT fire the coach that did it after injuries took their toll.
Jake was a mistake. Although, not quite as big as you'd like us to believe. His value in helping Colt should not be understated. He's way overpaid as a mentor but as it stands now it wouldn't surprise me to see them try to get him to take a pay cut. He may do it. His options are few and far between as a starter now. We all got happy after NO and NE. Then we saw the true Mangini in losses to our last 4 opponents. Sure injuries took their toll. But we lost to the Bengals and the Bills, for God's sake, and went belly up before haltime against the Steelers. Yeah, that Mangini is a motivator of men, alright......
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He's a very good coach BUT that does not qualify him to be a very good President. Period.
BS. It doesn't MAKE him a good president. (His actions will determine that). But it certainly qualifies him for the job.
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I'll give him time, but I'll be vocal when I think he's screwing up. He screwed up with Mangini.
No, you won't give him time. You're already on his ass. And his only mistake with Mangini was not canning him last year. But if he had you'd have ripped him worse than you're doing now. A win/win for you a lose/lose for him. That seems fair..... 
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So put down your pom poms and see the guy for what he is.
I don't have the dexterity for pom poms so I'll definitely leave them alone. But I do see our FO personnel for what they are. Hard working people trying to bring dopes like us a champion.
I'll cheer for that every day of the week.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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You don't understand ..... it was perfectly acceptable to bash Mangini for each and every decision he made ....... but to question any decision by Holmgren is blasphemy.
Nope, not even close and you know it.
But keep saying stuff like that. Eventually you might even come to believe it.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Oh please.
Mangini was bashed and blasted by some posters damn near from the moment Lerner hired him. That was OK. He's been blasted by certain posters ever since. That was OK. He was blasted when Holmgren said that he was bringning him back for this season. That was OK.
I prefer the "Mangini" style team, pure and simple. (which is really the Belichick style) I prefer a strong 3-4 defense and a power running offense with a vertical pass offense. It is the philosophy that most of the teams in this year's playoffs followed. It is the philosophy that the 2 teams in the AFC Championship game follow. It is the philosophy that the 4 teams in the 2 AFC division game followed. 3 of the 4 Conference Championship Game participants use the 3-4. 1 team used the WCO. 1 team uses the 4-3. Not 1 team left uses a combination of the 2.
I do like elements of the WCO .... and there is definitely some merit to using elements of it. Over the years "WCO" has come to mean any of 50 different things depending on what team is running it. If we go with the power running version of it, then I have no problem with it. If we so with the version that utilizes Vickers as a blocking FB then I have no problem with it. If we let Vickers go and try to run a 4 wide WCO in Cleveland in winter .... well then I'll have some concerns. It remains to be seen what we'll run because we hired a guy with 2 years of coordinating a bad offense in St Louis, and having almost identical results to the "horrible" guy we had coordinating our offense. We have a rookie head coach who will be calling his own plays. That concerns me. We had a chance for a high quality OC in Mike McCoy, and I can only guess that he went from "likely to be hired" to "retained by the Broncos" because he didn't want to go somewhere where he wasn't going to call plays.
At this point we have no idea who our DC will be.We heard that Jauron was the frontrunner. This was from several well connected sources who also broke that Shurmur was the new head coach.
Then he was going elsewhere. This doesn't worry me much as I'm not a huge Jauron fan ..... but I do wonder who we're going to go after. What happens if we have to promote a position coach from somewhere to a first time DC? With the head coach off being the OC, now we have a rookie in charge of each half of the team, and no one in charge of the whole thing. This worries me, and I think that it's a legitimate concern. You might not, and that's your right. It definitely worries me, and that's also my right.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You can't reason with him, believe me 
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Look, I'm not going to change your opinion. As a teacher once said to a friend of mine, "Your mind is like a steel trap. Except it's rusted shut".
But it doesn't mean I have to sit silently while you and your Manginists continually moan about alleged past slights and perceived future misdeeds.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Just because we disagree doesn't mean that my mind, as you so kindly put it, is "rusted shut".
I have stated my reasons for the way I feel. I lay out an argument. You throw axioms back in return. Pardon me if I'm not impressed.
I think that this team has lost their preferred candidates from head coach on down. From all reports from those who cover the team, the team has lost their #1 offensive coordinator and #1 defensive coordinator candidates, Now they are scrambling to find new candidates.
Watch ... we'll wind up with a rookie head coach in name only as he will be the offensive coordinator ..... an offensive coordinator in name only, as no coordinator worth a damn wants to take a job where they won't call plays ...... and who knows who we'll get as defensive coordinator. How will you react if we get some 1st timers at OC and DC? How will you react if Shurmur is then so tied up with the offense that he cannot function as the head coach? Will you continue to drink the Kool-Aid™?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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BUT when Holmgren bellies up to the podium and states he's going to bring in a coach that will take us to the big show... Then I expect this coach to do that... Holmgren and Company now need to deliver a Super Bowl.
He never said that.
#gmstrong
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The thing I don't understand about your love affair with Mangini is what he actually did to make you fall in love with him.
I know you're going to say you like his philosophy and believed he had us on the right track - the only track that can have success in the tough AFC North.
But I got to tell you that your love affair is disproportionately off based on those reasons alone and not much success as a HC to speak of, including back to back 5 win seasons.
I guess I just don't get the depths of your love.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Take all your questions and replace "what has Holmgren done" with "what has Mangini done".
I swear you guys act like keeping Mangini would have guaranteed a SB.
You put more faith and trust in him over a guy who is much, much, much more accomplished in the game of football than Mangini is.
I just find it odd.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I like his philosophy. It's not "love" as you derisively put it, but I respect what mangini was able to do with a team sorely lacking in talent.
I like the fact that this team, despite lacking talent, played smart, disciplined football.
I like the fact that we dramatically closed the scoring differential gap from last year to this year despite playing an even more difficult schedule.
I like the fact that we movedinto the top half in scoring defense. (a defining factor in making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs this year)
I like the fact that he embraces a power running, beat your opponent into submission style of football that the Steelers and Ravens have used for years to beat us with.
I like the fact that we beat 2 playoff teams with a rookie QB.
I like the fact that the team appeared to be on the right track, and poised to get to or above .500 next season.
I like the fact that we could have continued plugging in some of the pieces that we were lacking instead of rebuilding.
I don't like some of his decisions, but I can say that about any coach we've had since we've been back .... as well as every Browns coach going back to Rutigliano. I remember some of the same questions on occassion about some of Marty's decisions. I don't base my opinion of a coach on 1 or 2 items over the entire course of the season, but rather on how he handles the team overall.
Let me ask you something.
What do you feel are the important characteristics for a head coach to have? How do you define the perfect head coach?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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...and If we are picking first overall in the 2012 draft, will Cleveland turn on Mike? I just hope Mike is right about his HC pick. Yet, I am with you Ytown, not feeling it about Shurmur, Sorry but the first word that came to mind was...wimp. Please Mike be right, please football gods smile on the Browns, just once...PLEASE
Go Browns !!!!
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...and If we are picking first overall in the 2012 draft, will Cleveland turn on Mike?
Maybe then we'll finally get a QB and we can quit arranging deck chairs on the Titanic
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...and If we are picking first overall in the 2012 draft, will Cleveland turn on Mike?
Maybe then we'll finally get a QB and we can quit arranging deck chairs on the Titanic
Less filling!
Tastes great!
Less filling!
Tastes great!
Less filling!
Tastes great!
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Legend
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Legend
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Link At about 1:45 into this he states; "My goal is to, find exactly the right person for the job of head coach of the Cleveland Browns and who can eventually, someday lead us to a championship and that's my only goal." That's a coach to take us to the Super Bowl. How else could you translate that?
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
I like his philosophy. It's not "love" as you derisively put it, but I respect what mangini was able to do with a team sorely lacking in talent.
I like the fact that this team, despite lacking talent, played smart, disciplined football.
I like the fact that we dramatically closed the scoring differential gap from last year to this year despite playing an even more difficult schedule.
I like the fact that we movedinto the top half in scoring defense. (a defining factor in making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs this year)
I like the fact that he embraces a power running, beat your opponent into submission style of football that the Steelers and Ravens have used for years to beat us with.
I like the fact that we beat 2 playoff teams with a rookie QB.
I like the fact that the team appeared to be on the right track, and poised to get to or above .500 next season.
I like the fact that we could have continued plugging in some of the pieces that we were lacking instead of rebuilding.
I'm glad you like so much about Eric Mangini. Just a couple of points, though.....
You act like he was the only one in the world that could do any of that. Not true. Not even close.
The guy was 33-47 as a HC. 10-22 here. Yeah, he was gonna take us to the SB next year like you and your buddies are now demanding of Pat Shurmur.
Inhale......Exhale...... Mangini is gone. Get over it.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Hall of Famer
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It's all about Longevity I believe... We'll never know now if Mangini coulda taken us where we wanna go... This is all about Philosophy...No doubt about it...We're switching everything... Holmgren shoulda just started this LAST YEAR and been done with it...
Go Browns!!!
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Legend
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Legend
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No, Mangini wasn't the "only" one who could have done those things ...... but he was doing it here.
So, I'll ask you the same thing I asked another poster ...... What is it that you like about Shurmur? (Other than the fact that he was picked by Holmgren) What in his past do you find as a compelling reason to see him as a symbol of hope that he is indeed the coach to take us to the Super Bowl?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Guys like YTown just don't get the fact that Mangini's "character/team 1st" philosophy comes at the cost of pure talent...by demanding HIS style he simply disqualifies guys beforehand that don't come even close to being Divas...his priorities are all messed up evaluating talent...that's why I went on to bash him even this year for his 09 offseason...he clearly showed there, that he has no clue what kind of talent wins in this league...and not only that, he inexplicably loves well below avg overachievers...just because they barely are good enough for the nfl giving 100%....that's like saying a Dodge is faster than a Ferrari just because you can still handle a Dodge at full speed but not a Ferrari which you drive into the wall when tried to go full speed and then saying: see, the dodge is faster...no, it's just easier to handle but you won't win any high competitive race this way....obviously the skillset of the driver is the problem not the car...that's what Holmgren realized: he wants a Ferrari because he knows it takes one to win, but Mangini isn't an adequate driver
Now the homers will be quick to point to the Jets success to party Mangini as the "cleaner"...not so fast. 1st of all Ryan plays a totally different D, way more aggressive and their D improved a lot compared to Mangini who played not to lose like he did here
But even more importantly...Ryan is ABLE to MANAGE talent with no "yes-sir" mindset into a winning team, here's your list of why the Jets made the necessary next step:
Sanchez: while not great and still inconsistent, he gets better. Mangini passed on him...Jets traded up for him.
LT: Mangini never would have signed him and probably LT never would have played for Mangini to begin with
BE: see LT just with 100% proof
Taylor: see LT
Holmes: see LT, he NEVER would have traded for a troublesome WR with big time talent, NEVER
Pool: while not great but still decent, Mangini ditched him in favour of his buddy Elam and Pool now starts in the AFC CCG
Cromartie: see Holmes
T.Pryce: see LT
B.Scott: see LT
This list contains some HEAVY talent, we are talkng mostly ProBowl talent here....and THAT is the reason the Jets are now what they are NOT Mangini's "cleaner" job (what did he clean there anyway? his Jets record isn't even better than Herm Edward's, lol..at best he did what he did here: lots of stubborn lateral moves)....those signings put the Jets over the mediocrity Mangini prefers and been at display for 5 years of HC
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
It's all about Longevity I believe...
We'll never know now if Mangini coulda taken us where we wanna go...
This is all about Philosophy...No doubt about it...We're switching everything...
Holmgren shoulda just started this LAST YEAR and been done with it...
I've said that too many times.Lets say he could have gotten his guy ,that process could have been started and now we'd in the year that where things settle down.
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Pool: while not great but still decent, Mangini ditched him in favour of his buddy Elam and Pool now starts in the AFC CCG
NO, i don't really think that is how it went down. We had Pool and Elam both here at the same time--- who in the world could tell. Pool would get his bell rung every other tackle and miss 4 games at a time. Many thought and recommended that he retire for health and safety concerns. Letting Pool go in FA was no big deal. He never saw the field and could not be counted on to stay healthy. How he made it through this year without a concussion is beyond me.
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...and If we are picking first overall in the 2012 draft, will Cleveland turn on Mike?
Welcome to the Browns Mr. Luck.
....and i don't care how good Colt may look......
Of course, this would be starting all over again
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BUT when Holmgren bellies up to the podium and "states he's going to" bring in a coach that will take us to the big show... Then I expect this coach to do that... Holmgren and Company now need to deliver a Super Bowl.
Quote:
"My goal" is to, find exactly the right person for the job of head coach of the Cleveland Browns and who can eventually, someday lead us to a championship and "that's my only goal"."
That's a coach to take us to the Super Bowl. How else could you translate that?
There's a huge difference between that being "a goal" and him saying "he's going to" bring a coach that will take us to the big show.
I'm going to...
My goal is to...
There's the difference in the translation.
Little kids make that faulty translation all the time...
Little kid: Dad can we go fishing?
Dad: Not today son. But I'll do everything I can to try and so on Saturday.
Saturday comes...
Little kid: Are we going fishing today?
Dad: No son I'm afraid not today. We didn't get the job finished at work so I'll have to work today.
Little kid: But you promised!
Was there a promise or was there a promise to try real hard to make it happen? There's a big difference. And when someone holds us to make good on our goal all they can really hold us to is to try real hard, not demand we succeed because we said we would try. That's what a goal is, a target, a direction, something to strive for, not a guarantee that it will be fulfilled.
I won't bring up reading or listening comprehension because that's certainly not your issue. But sometimes, (and we all do it), mistake what we read or hear for what we want to hear. Or, as happens sometimes, we look for any positive or negative to magnify our personal viewpoint of likes or dislikes. It's done with stats all the time.
I hate arguing with anyone but do find debate, deliberation and and productive discussions enriching to may overall learning experience and hope others do the same.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Link
At about 1:45 into this he states;
"My goal is to, find exactly the right person for the job of head coach of the Cleveland Browns and who can eventually, someday lead us to a championship and that's my only goal."
That's a coach to take us to the Super Bowl. How else could you translate that?
Shurmur is going to buy the team tickets to the next Superbowl and put together Itineraries for all of the sites that they should see...? 
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Legend
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Legend
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To say that you're splitting hairs in an understatement. Try this one on: It is his JOB to hire us a coach that will take us to a championship, and he is on record as stating that he intends to do that... he states as much by stating that it is his goal. End of story.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Legend
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The only part of the statement I don't like is "... eventually, someday..." that sounds SO FAR AWAY... 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
The only part of the statement I don't like is "... eventually, someday..." that sounds SO FAR AWAY...
I know. Everything they've said since the Shurmur hiring has been "someday" and "hopefully" and "maybe". Now I know they obviously can't guarantee a championship or predict the future, but it just sounds to me like they don't have a tremendous amount of belief in themselves.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
The only part of the statement I don't like is "... eventually, someday..." that sounds SO FAR AWAY...
I know. Everything they've said since the Shurmur hiring has been "someday" and "hopefully" and "maybe". Now I know they obviously can't guarantee a championship or predict the future, but it just sounds to me like they don't have a tremendous amount of belief in themselves.
I think you guys are beginning to pick at stuff.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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x2
I much prefer realism to pie-in-the-sky optimism when it comes to this stuff. There are no guarantees when it comes to success in any sport. Just ask Dan Gilbert how his idiotic "pledge" after The LeBacle is looking now.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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