DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dick Jauron hired

How do you REALLY feel, Ddubia? Can't hold this stuff in . . . .

I agree PStu24. I think a lot more screening took place, maybe filter might be a better word, especially with the agent's connections MH has. I wish him success if he is a Browns coach. I liked Ryan, but maybe something different is in store. I do NOT say the new head coach picked him, but I am sure he was consulted to some degree; seems reasonable. If it were the draft, "the best man available" comes to mind. Not sure of his ability, but I will back him until I don't.

What is it you love about the hire? This is not antagonistic; I do not know him much.

You cannot write off the expansion years as some great negative for the Jaguars. Both the Jaguars and Panthers got a GREAT deal from the NFL .... so good, in fact, that they had to crappify our deal because they did so well right away.

As we went over earlier, the Jaguards expansion wasn't the same deal we got stuck with.

The Panthers, for example, were the #2 scoring defense, and #10 overall defense in their 2nd year of existence. (same expansion class as the Jaguars)

They allowed 218 points, 1562 yards rushing, 7 rushing Tds.

Hell, the Panthers were a top 10 defense in scoring and yards in their very first year on the field.

The Jaguars in that same 2nd season were the 19th ranked scoring defense, 15th overall defense.

They allowed 335 points, 1781 yards rushing and 9 rushing TDs.

Expansion was easy in those days. That's why we got such a crappy deal by comparison just a few years later. Comparing the defenses in Carolina to the defenses in Jacksonville might be instructive as far as the level of talent these teams could grab in the expansion draft, and in free agency. (which teams were still trying to get a handle on) The NFL allowed teams to basically write off contracts taken by the Jaguars and Panthers in the expansion draft. Got a contract that might cause you a problem in a year or 2? Dump it on the expansion guys.

Now the expansion teams didn;t take all of those heavy contracts, but they did take a fair number of "plus" veterans with higher contracts, but they could afford them because they sytarted with a clean slate.

Anyway, I would invite you to take a fresh look at expansion and what that word meant for the Panthers and Jaguars compared to the hell it meant for the Browns. There really is no comparison.

You fail to list that the Panthers were in the NFC and had a guy named "Dom Capers" working for them ...

You're right.
The Packers get Capers and we're stuck with Jauron.That really sucks.

Good, solid DC hire...really don't get all the negativity here...he IS a strong DC hire with not so bad (and recent) HC background in this league

Speed, here we come....finally...we're definately switching from slow footed and heavy to undersized and speedy (if I remember correctly)....I welcome the change

Hopefully not too much of an emphasis on the "undersized" part...

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and I wonder how his philosophies will mesh with our existing players/schemes.

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They don't. At all. We might have 3 players on defense who fit his scheme. Hell, even Fujita doesn't really fit his scheme, as he is a big OLB and Jauron prefers smaller and faster OLB.

We'll see 2 years from now how Jauron's schemes work in the AFCN. I think that they won't, unless he does something he really hasn't done in the past and starts to use bigger DE/LB with some blitzing. He has never been one to do that. He has always relied on a 4 man line to generate his pass rush, and has emphasized speed and gang tackling over size and strength at just about every position except DT and MLB.

We'll see what happens. Hopefully I'll be wrong. We'll see.

We don't have the players to fit either scheme. I'm OK with the hire....an experienced defensive coach who's been around the league and will provide leadership. A good fit with a new young coach. I believe Heckert will give him some players to work with. They are hired, they are here and they are what we have. Mangini is gone, and I have mixed feelings about that. Given our history of course I have reservations, but I'm going to give them a chance to build us into a winner. I'm a heck of a lot more confident with this bunch than when we hired Crennel.

The funny thing about your Jauron stats are: most seasons he had his D allowing 300-350p...we allowed 375 and 332p under Mangini, playing small ball AND with pretty much no Offense (= opponents play it safe, settling for FGs instead of TDs etc)....when your Offense sucks, your D ALWAYS will look "not so bad" in comparison...

I will wait to judge this coaching stuff until the season is over. All the complaining and praising is all puffery until we see the results on a football field. The one thing I know for sure this coaching staff better win 7 or more games. 5 Games wasn't good enough to keep Mangini so the bar must be set higher.

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Oh I think we'll see this defense get toasted regularly for a couple of years at least.

Until and unless Jauron gets this defense to a top 10 scoring ranking, he really won't be an upgrade.

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Been thinking that no matter who they hired as DC to come in here and install a 43 (if indeed that's the plan) is gonna have trouble for a year or two while the right players are acquired..

But what chaps my butt is that while the talent is being acquired, we'll have fans out there telling us how bad the DC is cause he can't get Square pegs to fit in round holes..

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How do you REALLY feel, Ddubia? Can't hold this stuff in . . . .

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No Bard, I have a tough time with that.


It's just that we fired the head coach and it really displeases some. That's ok, I mean, heck, everyone has a right to their own opinion and their right on here to debate, deliberate and argue their points on the matter.

But it seems that the disappointment in the firing of Mangini has spilled over to villianize the poor guys we hire to replace him. For the most part no one on here as ever given the new guys much of a thought before. But now, suddenly they're experts on how bad a coach they've been in their respective careers. Some of it's done with meaningless stats, some of it's based on a bad thing they remember from the past, but most of it's just maximum whining because their guy was fired.

The whining doesn't even stop with the new guys. Now suddenly Mike Holmgren can't be trusted as he has led a conspiracy to force failure onto Mangini (as if he needed the help) so that he could bring in lesser quality coaches who will drive us into the ground. Yeah, that was the plan all along.

Personally I was glad to see Mangini go. In him I saw a little dick-tater who couldn't even allow his personal choice of GM have any authority, stripped the team of anyone he was too intimidated by to coach, couldn't manage his quarterbacks, hired an overwhelmed OC whom he couldn't even help, couldn't make decisions on game day and lost several "should win" games by having his team and gameplan tailored to play down to their pathic level.

The new guys? Like those who are bashing them, I don't really know much about them. All I know is we have a bona fide NFL-type FO in place designed for everyone to be on the same page and I like that. For the first time since our return we have a football man making decisions and another one choosing players. All that has to count for something.

At least on the outside it makes sense to give them a chance to hire and fire and build the team as they want because they deserve the chance to do it their way. With Mangini it wasn't being done their way yet they were tied to the failure of it.

So I'm watching and waiting on the edge of my seat to see where we're headed. Who will be the OC? Don't know. Don't care. I, just like the fans doing the most complaining, don't really know much about any coach who hasn't already coached here. For too many fans just the fact that they've heard a guy's name before makes them think they know something about them. If they were honest with themselves they'd come clean in their thinking and admit to themselves they know crap.

I don't have an opinion on any of them. All I have is a curiosity and the ability to give our FO a chance to build the team. It's the only thing we've got along with a core of players who should stick. It's an exciting time because if our FO experience is good for anything then we might just be slowly climbing out of the dregs and back into respectability. I'm kinda hoping for that.

We may continue to suck for the foreseeable future. But how can I know that now? How can the whiners know that now? It's always easier to cry suckage than it is to claim future success. Because it's guaranteed to have at least some suckage. Then that puts the whiners at a prime position to point and say "see, I told you so". I swear some of these fans hope for the worst just so they can end up being right. Who really wants to spew that much negativity only to be so publicly wrong?

I wish everybody thought just like me, then this would be a perfect world. But in truth I just wish everybody would just give it a chance and quit whining about the past, complaining about the present and predicting doomsday about the future.

We are once again in a new building venture for this team only this time it's being done by football men. It's exciting to me. With an offensive-minded head coach, a new defense and a new direction there is so much to learn so how can so many have so much time to whine and complain?

The worst part for me and some others is we can't even fool ourselves into thinking it will end any time soon.

What was your question again Bard? Oh yeah, no, I can't hold this stuff in.

Well I dont know much of anything about Dick Jauron. But the one thing I am glad to see is that we can finally stop trying to emulate the Steelers and Patriots Defenses.
While Im not overly excited about any of these moves with the coaches. Its nice to know that we have a Presidente who is secure enough to start trying to find our own way along the path to goodness.
In all these years of trying to run the 3-4 we havent managed to find anybody to play it in the front 7. I mean no one who has been consistently reliable at their position. Not since Orpheus Roye as sad as that is to say. Behind him our next most reliable guy was Davis. Since those 2 average players left we havent even been able to match their consistentcy at being avg.
Now we can get back to letting players play a position that will come naturally to them. That they have played since High School and through college.
Drafting just got easier for the Browns. No more projecting tweener LBers into positions they dont want to play. Or DTs to NT.
Free agency also just got easier, now we could pick up a guy like Haynesworth. No more trying to find NTs or DEs from other teams DT spots. Rogers is going to be thrilled to play DT again.
I am excited about next year, and getting back to the basics on D.

Please continue to not hold it in ddubia. You are one of my favorite posters on here. I don't post on here much, because of the exact posters you described. You echo my thoughts, and put them in much better words than I ever could.

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At least on the outside it makes sense to give them a chance to hire and fire and build the team as they want because they deserve the chance to do it their way. With Mangini it wasn't being done their way yet they were tied to the failure of it.

So I'm watching and waiting on the edge of my seat to see where we're headed. Who will be the OC? Don't know. Don't care. I, just like the fans doing the most complaining, don't really know much about any coach who hasn't already coached here. For too many fans just the fact that they've heard a guy's name before makes them think they know something about them. If they were honest with themselves they'd come clean in their thinking and admit to themselves they know crap.

I don't have an opinion on any of them. All I have is a curiosity and the ability to give our FO a chance to build the team. It's the only thing we've got along with a core of players who should stick. It's an exciting time because if our FO experience is good for anything then we might just be slowly climbing out of the dregs and back into respectability. I'm kinda hoping for that.

We may continue to suck for the foreseeable future. But how can I know that now? How can the whiners know that now? It's always easier to cry suckage than it is to claim future success. Because it's guaranteed to have at least some suckage. Then that puts the whiners at a prime position to point and say "see, I told you so". I swear some of these fans hope for the worst just so they can end up being right. Who really wants to spew that much negativity only to be so publicly wrong?

I wish everybody thought just like me, then this would be a perfect world. But in truth I just wish everybody would just give it a chance and quit whining about the past, complaining about the present and predicting doomsday about the future.

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This whole post should be required reading for Browns fans. But the part I've quoted here is quite possibly the best writing I've ever read here.

I'm trying to figure out how to tattoo it on my chest......

That might be the case, except that I (and some others who have been lumped into this "hater" group somehow) have said that I liked the reported interest, if not imminent signing of Mike McCoy and Bill Musgrave as OC ..... until that fell apart ...... and that I liked the potential signing of Wannstedt when it was reported that he was the front-runner. The reason I preferred him to Jauron was because of his defensive philosophy, mainly the use of smaller defenders by Jauron.

So .... I liked 2 reported potential OCs, and I preferred the guy who was, until yesterday, the probable front-runner for DC.

I guess that makes me a hater. Guess I'm second guessing everything they do.

Now you may claim to have no opinion about anyone ..... but if you truly don't .... why are you even bothering to post? To say "I have no opinion."? Come on. That's ridiculous. If you truly had no opinion, then you wouldn't bother. If you truly have no opinion, then why should it matter to you if someone else does?

What's funny is that I originally started out pro Jauron ...... but then moved away from him as I did more research into him. The team also seemed to be moving away from him ..... so it didn;t matter at that point. Once they started moving back towards him, then I became a hater ......

No one has called you a hater. A whiner, maybe, but not a hater.

Feeling guilty?.......

Can I ask why you think that that team moved away from him? I mean for all we know he was their last choice ... but he also might have been their choice all along. As I have said and a few others pointed out, Wannstach only signed with Buffalo when it looked like he was turning into the #2 option behind Jauron .. and we might have only brought him in when we thought Jauron was going to stay with philly ...

there are a lot of possibilities of the truth, and I'm just respectfully wondering how you think you know what it all is?

Oh, I've been called a hater.

I guess that you can't have an opinion on this board anymore without being a "whiner" ..... unless it was an opinion against the previous staff. Then you were a hero ... or something.

I have reservations about the staff that is being out in place. I am trying to learn everything I can about those we are bringing in. My opinions sometime change as I learn more. Like with Jauron, who I originally liked, then while the team appeared to drop him in favor of Wannstedt, I looked more and more at Jauron, and was glad we had appeared to drop him ... then we signed him. Should I pretend that the stuff I learned while he seemed to have dropped as a candidate magically disappears because the team decided to bring him on?

I guess I should. Otherwise, I might be a hater, or a whiner. The difference is that I hope that I never get to tell you "I told you so", because that will mean yet more heartbreak and disappointment for us. Frankly, I hope I am wrong. However, established patterns will have to change for me to be wrong. I don't see that happening ...... but if it does, and we win a Super Bowl or even more than 1, I'll be just as happy as anyone else, and more than happy to say that I was wrong. I doubt that others will say that they were wrong should the opposite happen.

According to some we can even get coaches fired around here. Keep bashing away and Lerner will hear your voice, rest assured.

I have no opinion because I don't know any of these coaches. Wiki is available to me too and I do look up as many articles as I can on all comers. Hell, I go on NFL.com and look at stats as well. But most of what I get out of them are stats that mean nothing to predict the job at hand.

Did you notice that Jauron was Associated press NFL Head Coach of the Year in 2001 with the Bears. And that their defense was ranked #1 that year. Now, he wasn't the DC, some guy I've never even heard of before was the DC. But Jauron was the head coach and I'm sure his stamp was on it somewhere. Maybe his was the worst part of it. I don't know. I wasn't there.

But all that stuff is nothing but all that stuff. The nfl.com stats and wiki history and all the various articles only give a glimpse into a coaches' career. Like I said before and hate to repeat because it should be so obvious to everyone, there are so many variables in every given situation that nothing falls on one guy. Nothing. So stats be damned. If we don't know a guy other then through articles and stats then we still don't know the guy. That's where I'm at and a big part of the reason I have no opinion on them.

The variables we have here with our professional, experienced FO and the type of organization that is set up here is a good variable to work with and I believe anyone worth their salt who fits into the basic philosophy of our organization can be successful here.

Sorry, Mangini didn't fit the philosophy here and it would have forever been him trying to buy into and fit theirs and they trying to buy into and fit his. Screw that. That's the model we've had here since our return. I'm ready for the one-for-all-all-for-one that I see being built here now.

Now the President, GM, Head Coach and DC are all from the same philosophy. That's major. Wannstedt, as much good as I remember of him, which is not to say I actually know anything substantial about him, doesn't fit the organization as well as does Jauron. And Jauron has major experience in the area in which our head coach doesn't have. The opposite was true the past two years where the OC had no experience in the area in which our head coach didn't either. That was a recipe for disaster that played out exactly that way.



What I can't do, and which is why I say I don't have an opinion, is to pretend, due to a Wiki crash course, to know these guys well enough to have formed a solid opinion about them.

And the reason it matters to me that someone else does have opinions is because by the things they say and the evidence they use to back themselves up it shows as nothing more than one of those crash courses of Wiki, stats and articles that I have myself, yet, they attempt to come across as some kind of expert on the guy and use that self- illusion to gripe and complain about nearly everything that's going on and it all started by the firing of Mangini and has snowballed into a bloody massacre of everything FO associated.

When you're caught up in it I'm sure it looks like one thing. But when you're on the outside witnessing it, well, let me tell you, it looks like something else altogether different.

There are a few on here who do know some of the coaching candidates. You can tell them by the short remarks they make while containing themselves when they give their opinions. The others, the most adamant against certain things, say and show way too much copy and paste to believe they have any actual knowledge of their own.

You have been the main voice against the FO since the Mangini firing. Fine. That's you. I have tried to be a voice of give them a chance to prove themselves as this is their first real attempt to build the team their way. It is obvious we were going to clash. I don't think any less of you although I'd like to hear less of you , sorry man, I was on a roll and didn't really mean that but couldn't stop myself.

I just want the same thing you do, a winning team that eventually makes it to hoisting the Lombardi trophy. In that we agree. And I would just like to see what Holmgren and Co. can do about that because I feel there's enough football men here with enough experience to do the job. That's not blind faith. That's not agreeing with everything they do. But there's not been enough done yet to find a lot of fault unless them doing it their own way is a fault. Personally, I don't think it is.

jc

had this post up but the thread obv got deleted for some reaso...here goes anyway:

Random thoughts:

Generally speaking.....with Jauron we are more likely looking for OLB/SS tweeners for our OLB spots and it's much, much easier to find those guys later in the draft or as FA (mis-fits from other teams) than it is finding 34 OLB talent or 43 DE talent....since Rubin and Rogers should be locks (and a pretty good combo inside for the 43...Minny's Williams&Williams anyone?)

That said....I know many don't like him...but I'd draft Moch from Nevada for OLB in round 3 if he's stil there

We need a FS now more than ever...but Elam needed being replaced yesterday, so regardless of switch we need some capable deep FS, Elam and Ward are clueless doing this...Ward could develop into a Pola type guy in Jauron's scheme but we need a real ballhawk at FS now...S-class is pretty meh for the most part, so probably a stop gap below AVG vet and late rounder to start things off there

Dqwell should be a pretty good 43 MLB and pretty much fits the bill

CBs are set if we keep Wright, which we should do (tag him, you just don't let a talent like him go for nothing...at least tag-and-trade him)


DE is our biggest problem BY FAR on defense...and I HATE both Quinn and Bowers in the top 10 of this draft....just don't do it PLEASE, just go BPA at #6, whatever the position....Gabbert, Amukamara, Green....if those are gone, trade down and grab Jones or Kerrigan or Clayborn

we can always see what Beau Bell is up to? lol..

I remember so many people saying he was going to be our Ray Lewis.. I think I was in on that "hype" too.. lol.

I guess this is the type of post I prefer. We got a DC. Now how will that translate to our defense other than "we're gonna suck!"


Can Sheldon Browns be that FS or do we need a faster guy? Of couse that would mean Haden and Wright at the corners but personally I think Wright's bad season as an aberration or some mental thing slip from him. After all, we did bring in Brown and draft a CB. Maybe it was too much to bear? lol

Jauron coached Baby in Detroit, wonder how that went personality wise.

Fujita and DQ should be locks. That's a start. Maybe Benard gets a chance now. At least more playing time than he's gotten so far. I'm pretty sure Barton and Bowens are gone.

I know nothing about college players. I watch some games but find it difficult to watch enough of them of focus on anyone other than the one game I'll see them in.

I'd love to see us draft Prince to put opposite Haden. Holy crap ... might as well take the WRs out of the game plan that week.

Even just a moderate upgrade for Elam and our secondary would be sitting pretty nice.

I've often read on here that Ward is not a ballhawk. I disagree. There were so many plays that he sniffed out and made a play on the ball. He was either just a bit late or dropped the ball. But those plays will come. I don't know if he could be as good as Polamalu but I think he could be that type of player. Very instinctual and very athletic. I was actually shocked by his play this year. You watch him and you just know that with experience he's going to be Pro Bowl caliber player at a minimum. We haven't seen safety play like that since Turner.

Both him and Haden have star power, IMO. Add Prince and forget about it.

Not sure if I'd like to resign Wright or not. If we were to add Prince in the first, that means Wright stays in the slot where he's not very good. I just don't think that's a good fit for him. Put him on the sidelines, give him less space to work with and he's pretty good. I really wonder what Heckert is thinking in terms of Wright.

Phins, Pats, Bills, Jets,
Steelers Ravens
Titans (mangini likely to be their new DC)
Chargers, Broncos, Chiefs

That leaves just 6 teams in the AFC running the 4-3 and it seems like the 3-4 is continuing to spread across the NFC slowly with the Skins, Boys, Pack, 49ers, Cards.

So we are pretty much at the point where half the league is 3-4 and looking for a different set of skills and variables. 7 years and we are not one bit closer to being a real 3-4 defense than we were in year 2 of Romeo.

I dont think it is going to be difficult to surpass where we are right now defensively. Ward will be the in the box safety, we need a ballhawking FS badly. We must get some pass rushing DE's. We have 15 linebackers surely we can find a couple to play in the 4-3 lol. I agree on Moch though, love this kids skill set.

DQ is a free agent. I can't see the FO breaking the bank for a guy who hasn't played meaningful football in nearly two years. My guess is he tests FA and sees if someone else wants to give him a chance. He wants out.

I'd forgetten about rogers/Jauren in Detroit.No matter,Rogers was out of here anyhow.
Quick question,How many teams have transitioned to a 43 recently?
It seems as tho everyone is going the other way.

Rogers may not be out. He'll be back in his preferred system and hopefully over his physical problems.

Then again he could be a goner. It's just a shame to lose a guy who is a game changer if he's got something left in him.

Jauron put Rogers in the pro bowl. I think Rogers will be back and I wouldnt be surprised if we make a run at Fat Albert when the skins cut him