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We need SUPERB TALENT in the 1st
Because there is no superb talent at the back of the 1st round...
(2006 - Mangold taken 29th, DeAngelo Williams 27th, Santonio Holmes 25th.
2007 - Joe Staley taken 28th, Jon Beason 25th, Brandon Meriweather 24th, Dwayne Bowe 23rd.
2008 - Kenny Phillips taken 31st, Chris Johnson 24th, Sam Baker 21st.
2009 - Hakeem Nicks taken 29th, Clay Matthews 26th, Alex Mack 21st.)
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Hell, look at how long the Ravens have built around Ed Reed and Ray Lewis. Look at how long the Steelers have built around Troy Polamolu.
Ed Reed, who was drafted 26th overall. Polamalu 16th.
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It's not about WHERE you draft, it's WHO you draft.
I have enough faith in Heckert that if we can get multiple first and second day picks we can do some things, just like last year.
The best way to do that without giving up any players we covet is to trade down.
I don't trade down out of this position.
I'd stay put and even look to trade up back in to the latter stages of round 1.
This year might be a problem because we might face a numbers crunch if we change schemes on D, but almost always I would rather have a later round 1st rounder over a high 2nd, and 4th...probably what it would cost to make the jump.
We need quality players. At #6, unless somebody TOTALLY flunks out or we do something incredibly stupid, we will get a impact player.
I don't move unless some team simply makes a offer we can't refuse....and I mean a good offer.....no equal trade chart offer......not even a few points over.
trade down?
Ok...it can't be over 7 positions down.
It has to included a swap of positions, a 2nd and 4th this year, a 2nd next year, and a 3rd the year after.
Someone wants to do that, sure, why not.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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but almost always I would rather have a later round 1st rounder over a high 2nd, and 4th...probably what it would cost to make the jump.
What?!?!? Really!?!?!
Aren't they essentially the same thing, only you have to pay the 1st rounder more.
I'd take the 2nd and 4th every time.
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Quote:
Quote:
We need SUPERB TALENT in the 1st
Because there is no superb talent at the back of the 1st round...
(2006 - Mangold taken 29th, DeAngelo Williams 27th, Santonio Holmes 25th.
2007 - Joe Staley taken 28th, Jon Beason 25th, Brandon Meriweather 24th, Dwayne Bowe 23rd.
2008 - Kenny Phillips taken 31st, Chris Johnson 24th, Sam Baker 21st.
2009 - Hakeem Nicks taken 29th, Clay Matthews 26th, Alex Mack 21st.)
thats the past.. who is there THIS year? and half the guys you listed are NOT superb!! They are quality starters, but no one with the exception of a few like Clay Matthews, Chris Johnson, and Santonio Holmes (in my book atleast).
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who is there THIS year?
We don't know. No one knows. That's the point of the draft. But the past has shown that "superb" players come from the back end of the draft as well.
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and half the guys you listed are NOT superb
Mangold is regarded as the best center in the NFL (some would say Mack, who I also listed). DeAngelo Williams has averaged 5.0 yards per carry in his NFL career including a 1,500 yard season.
Joe Staley has started every game he's been healthy for in the NFL (including 34 at left tackle) and is very good. Jon Beason has been to three Pro Bowls in four years and has been named 1st team All-Pro once. Brandon Merriweather has made two Pro Bowls in the his first four years (he started only three season). Dwayne Bowe has 3,768 yards and 31 TD's in his first four years in the league.
When healthy Kenny Phillips is one of the best strong safeties in the league. Sam Baker has started at left tackle for the Falcons for three years.
In two seasons Hakeem Nicks has 1,842 yards and 17 TD's. Alex Mack is a top three or four center in the league.
So yes at least half of the guys I listed are superb. And the only ones you might have an argument on are Staley and Baker.
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j/c cuz I'm reading all the replies.
1) There is superb talent all over the draft. It's up to the scouts and the GM to find them.
2) Much of the "superb" talent become flat out busts for whatever reason.
Every year the teams that consistently draft well always pick in the late teens/20's and have absolutely NO problem finding top talent in the draft even though they pick in the bottom rounds. Why? They have a scouting system in place and the best GM's in football. Guess what? We have one of those now!
Do we trust our scouts and our GM? I sure as hell do. They proved themselves to me last year.
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Mack is luxury (not discrediting his ability), but won't win us any games. ( no need to break down blocking schemes and QB protection that opens up the field, I get it. I want playmakers!)
I know we are 99% in agreement here, but I wanted to note that the Steelers just lost the superbowl because their OC was out of the game (the pick-6 happened when their backup OC was bulldozed into Ben and he had to throw a wobbler off his back foot).
my main point with that is you don't always see that the center is a difference maker, but the best ones most certainly are.
I certainly see your point and like I said, I am thrilled to have both Mack and Haden on the team. But to your point too, had the Packers not taken a difference maker like Clay Matthews whom caused the game changing fumble on Mendenhall we could be seeing the steelers hoisting another trophy 
Bottom line is you can never have enough talent on a team regardless of position.
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All I'll say is that I'm likely to be okay with whatever they decide to do.
If they select someone like AJ Green or Julio Jones, I'm okay with it because we need WRs for the WCO that we'll be playing. I think we can get great talent at the spot much further down in the draft, but I'm not against taking one at the #6 spot if they want it that much and the person they want is there.
If they select Prince Amukamura, I won't complain one bit. I think that getting another top-tier CB prospect is a great idea.
If they choose to go a DL route, I'm alright with that because with the Browns going to the 4-3, we'll need another DT and some DEs. Getting a top-tier DL prospect isn't causing me any anguish either.
The only positions I don't want us to take with the #6 overall pick is the QB position, a RB position, a TE position or a kicker.
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The problem is most of the players, if not all, who will be available when we pick play a position of need for us. And they will also be the best player available.
Hard to pass that up.
I don't really want to trade down either, I was just replying to someone who is in favor of trading down if Green isn't there. In my opinion, if Green isn't there, we wouldn't be able to trade down if we wanted. It's easy to say "We should trade down," but you need to find someone who wants to move up and give you what you consider fair value in order to do so. Not always easy.
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It seems clear to all that "we need more talent".
It also seems clear that "more talent" can be obtained at a lower pick level, and in lower rounds, than #6 in the first.
That #6 in the first could be turned into a lower first plus additional picks in fairly high rounds.
IMO, "more picks" could very easily equal "more talent" than NOT trading down.
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had the Packers not taken a difference maker like Clay Matthews whom caused the game changing fumble on Mendenhall we could be seeing the steelers hoisting another trophy
who they took LATE in the 1st round 
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Bottom line is you can never have enough talent on a team regardless of position.
#gmstrong
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Saying we should trade down without knowing how the draft has looked ahead of us is ridiculous. I understand the principle and it can be a good option but if the guy that the FO WANTS is there, we take him...Simple as that.
Given that there is an abundance of DE talent in this draft and we NEED a 4-3 DE plus the potential at Green is there at 6, I don't see much chance that we trade down.
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I agree with your points but then I disagree with what the implications are.
If we are in need of a d-end and as many as 9 or 10 could be first round grades (we know officially what the "experts" think in the next month), then we should be able to get either a real good "first round" d-end in the 16 to 25 range, and I would think that move could net us an additional second .. and maybe even a fifth or 6th.
If heckert is able to wheel and deal like last year, we could then trade our 3rd or 4th with a combination of a couple of our 5ths / 6ths and get back into the mid / late second.
Assuming that our "WE NEED THIS GUY" isn't available ... personally I would be very happy to say we came away from this draft with a mid round first and a pair or even 3 2nd round picks as well. If it's some combination of 2 to 3 dline .. then we just set (hopefully) the 4-3 foundation for a decade .. and with that other second we still might walk away with a top corner / safety while still having a couple picks left from rounds 4-6 to develop another linebacker / guard / corner ... who knows?
I agree with everyone that we need "playmakers" ... but I dont care if AJ Green is the best player in this draft. As much as I respect his ability, if we come away from this draft with AJ green and one other starter ... we better score 6 every time we touch the ball or else other teams will run through our front 7. I would love to get green, but I also know that I would trade a flashy wide receiver if it meant adding a couple of monsters for the middle, and there will always be half a dozen flashy wide receivers next year as well.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Saying we should trade down without knowing how the draft has looked ahead of us is ridiculous. I understand the principle and it can be a good option but if the guy that the FO WANTS is there, we take him...Simple as that.
Exactly! that's why you trade down,
the guy that the FO WANTS, can be 7 deep AND there can be 20 others that Everybody else wants, who you don't really want.
If the guy you want, or guys you want, are projected to get taken in the 23-29th overall range.
And you can take him at 17 instead of 6 , and taking him at 17 gets you additional picks, DO IT! and if it is only one 3rd rd pick or one 2nd rounder next year that you pick up , then DO IT!
I personally think Akeem Ayers, projected # 26 to the eagles, is a player who will create turnovers, and get to the ball with the enthusiasm to take those turnovers to the end zone, that kind of play is contagious and it is why I want him to be the Browns first selection.
there are a half a dozen others who are worth trading down to add, if Ayers is gone, each would still be solid as the teams first pick,
I look at it this way
They can whiff on a Kamerion Wimbley pick at #6
They can whiff on a Kamerion Wimbley pick at #15-19 with a 3rd round pick waiting on them
I choose option 2
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Haha great optimism  ... but I do love the fact that no two draft boards look alike when you account for their rating system. Didnt the Cowboys have Sean Lee rated in their top 10 or 15 players and got him in the mid 2nd round last year? I wonder how high a guy like TJ ward was on our board .. or even Hardesty when we actually traded up and got him, it could be exciting to know (if he gets healthy) that Ward was soemthing like our 25th player and Hardesty a late first round pick as well ... that's when it's exciting. I also remember all of the "experts" had Bruce Campbell possibly going #8 overall was it to the Raiders and he lasted until the 4th or so round ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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I also remember all of the "experts" had Bruce Campbell possibly going #8 overall was it to the Raiders and he lasted until the 4th or so round ...
... when the Raiders did, in fact, draft him and come out looking like the smartest team in the draft.
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I also remember all of the "experts" had Bruce Campbell possibly going #8 overall was it to the Raiders and he lasted until the 4th or so round ...
That was based on the historical perspective that the Raiders often greatly overestimate the need to jump on Maryland players early in the draft. 
yebat' Putin
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Exactly! that's why you trade down,
the guy that the FO WANTS, can be 7 deep AND there can be 20 others that Everybody else wants, who you don't really want.
If the guy you want, or guys you want, are projected to get taken in the 23-29th overall range.
And you can take him at 17 instead of 6 , and taking him at 17 gets you additional picks, DO IT! and if it is only one 3rd rd pick or one 2nd rounder next year that you pick up , then DO IT!
And that would be great if you know what the 11 picks in between are going to be...but you don't. If your top guy on the board is available at your slot, you take him....no questions asked.
I'm all for strategy...a big part of me wonders if its not smarter to go WR in round one due to the fact there are so many good DEs that we can get one in round two.
But at the end of the day, your first round pick I don't think you gamble with when you desperately need stars. The last thing I'd want is to play to be sly and get burned.
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bumped for truth.
I called it. Just had the positions wrong.
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I admit that I like the trade, even though I initially preferred to stay put.
Getting 2 1's, a 2nd, and a pair of 4ths is highway robbery for a single pick ... especially a 6th overall.
Man, I can't believe the Bengals passed on the deal.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It was a solid deal, I feel good with what we got in return. We've got a golden opportunity to start building something now, please don't screw it up front office guys.
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i absolutely love it ... while also having the ammunition of another maybe 3 picks in the first 50 next year to add "impact" players ... we still have the ability to solidfy the lines and other key positions while taking a few fliers on 8 more future cleveland browns at this point!
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
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I have no problem with the numbers,...I just think we could have gotten a better selection at the pick. BUT -- I AM admittedly NOT a draft guru. I hope the kid is the next Walter Johnson
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I have no problem with the numbers,...I just think we could have gotten a better selection at the pick. BUT -- I AM admittedly NOT a draft guru. I hope the kid is the next Walter Johnson
I do kind of feel the same way, but I was one of the guys who felt that TJ Ward was a bad pick last year so I'm guessing that it might be a good thing that I'm not thrilled with the pick.
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Double check there,...Ward had a BAD history of never being able to stay on the field since he was in high school,...and I cannot one bit complain about that pick.
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All Pro
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No team will have any desire to trade up to the Browns' pick unless it is for Amukamara. He's the only guy who could possibly be worth it.
I think the Falcons might be willing to trade up
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jc...
OMG...the falcons nearly did a Mike Ditka trade for Jones and the Browns are on the receiving end...OMG ..
The Falcons better hope that foot of Jones is solid...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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jc...
OMG...the falcons nearly did a Mike Ditka trade for Jones and the Browns are on the receiving end...OMG ..
The Falcons better hope that foot of Jones is solid...
thanks mac. just thought about the irony. the Falcons trade up to draft a guy with foot problems. the Browns trade back (and then back up) to draft a guy with foot problems.
I sincerely hope that both players have fine careers.
I also hope that Matt Ryan doesn't play all 16 games next year (think of it this way, we're 1 injury away from a top10 pick from Atlanta)
#gmstrong
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Actually, it is not confirmed that Taylor has foot problems. According to Heckert, there was something of a false positive on one test, and a later MRI showed nothing.
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Actually, it is not confirmed that Taylor has foot problems. According to Heckert, there was something of a false positive on one test, and a later MRI showed nothing.
hopefully that is truly the case.
#gmstrong
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/04/26/mail/index.html#ixzz1KjH5lSE4 Phil Taylor is going to be fine -- he thinks. One of the last remaining stories before the draft is the condition of the right foot of Baylor defensive tackle Phil Taylor, probably the best nose tackle in this draft. Ten days ago, it was reported Taylor had a problem with two bones growing together in the foot, a problem surgery was unlikely to help. But last week, Taylor was examined by San Francisco team doctors and given an X-ray, and he said he was told the foot was not a problem. In fact, the team gave the foot a clean bill of health, and the only health-related question the Niners had was about an old shoulder injury that also isn't considered a problem. "That report came out of left field,'' Taylor said. "I haven't had any pain in my foot. There's nothing wrong with it. And those doctors [in San Francisco] confirmed that, so now nobody should have any questions about it.'' Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/04/26/mail/index.html#ixzz1KvQ6KQTI
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bumped for truth.
I called it. Just had the positions wrong.
Sorry, but you didn't call it. You called a trade down. You had a 33% chance of that being right from the start.
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Time to roll the dice and make the "Official STAY PUT at #37" thread?
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Time to roll the dice and make the "Official STAY PUT at #37" thread?
what if someone offers next year's 1st for it? i'd take that.
#gmstrong
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Love this trade!!! we took ALOT from them.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Time to roll the dice and make the "Official STAY PUT at #37" thread?
what if someone offers next year's 1st for it? i'd take that.
Three first rounders next year ? Me too !
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Can we start an official TRADE DOWN with one of our # 2 picks thread?
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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The other thing everybody against the trade down should remember....
If we are still operating under 2010 rules (as seems likely) we saved a ton of money
Russel Okung (#6 in 2010) got a $58 million ($30 million guaranteed) contract
Jermaine Greshem (#21 in 2010) got a $18.5 million ($9 million guaranteed) contract
So we saved $40 million, and $21M in guarantees.... if we package that up for a Vincent Jackson or Sidney Rice - how could you not prefer that to a rookie WR?
~Lyuokdea
~Lyuokdea
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Great point ... and it's a great opportunity to still pick up a sleeper WR in the 6th or 7th and hope to strike gold ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) The *OFFICIAL* TRADE DOWN Thread
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