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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/02/cleveland_browns_coach_pat_shu_2.html Quote:
Cleveland Browns coach Pat Shurmur confirmed he'll go without an offensive coordinator
Published: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 7:48 PM Updated: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 8:03 PM
By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer
Chuck Crow / The Plain DealerBrowns coach Pat Shurmur will go without an offensive coordinator in his first year as head coach.
CLEVELAND -- Browns coach Pat Shurmur confirmed Thursday night that he'll go without an offensive coordinator in his first season as head coach and that his staff is basically complete.
Shurmur, who was a presenter at the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards, said he's comfortable handling the dual role of head coach/offensive coordinator and that he planned all along to call his own plays this season. He said he'll have plenty of input from his offensive staff.
His quarterbacks coach is Mark Whipple, who tutored Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger his first three seasons and his receivers coach is Mike Wilson, who's coached with the Raiders and Cardinals. Shurmur also retained three members off Eric Mangini's offensive staff, tight ends coach Steve Hagen, and offensive line coach George Warhop.
In other Browns news, Shurmur also said "it's a logical assumption'' that quarterback Colt McCoy will be the Browns starter in 2011.
Receiver Josh Cribbs, a finalist for Professional Athlete of the Year, said his injured foot is doing much better and that he expects to be 100% soon.
#GMSTRONG
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No benefit whatsoever in him doing this by himself while installing an entirely new systems on both sides of the ball. Maybe Holmgren and Haskell will help him installing the new O but I dont get it.
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#gmstrong
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This guy is an idiot.
Oh you're just a hater.  
I really cannot believe that this team is being put together in this manner. I a definitely afraid for our future right now.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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How about we actually wait to see this play out before we declare him an idiot?
I think it's ironic that the people that claim Mangini didn't get enough time are now dumping on Shurmur right out of the gate.
If it doesn't work, by all means, have at him. However, if Shurmur is going to call plays, then the OC is nothing more than another set of eyes that we don't really need.
I'd imagine that Haskell will be a defacto OC if Shurmur needs it with the plan that Whipple grows into the job. Is it the best idea? Who knows, I'm not an NFL guy, so I don't think I'm qualified to answer that. I guess I defer to the football people, but they aren't perfect.
Certainly this has the massive potential to blow up in their face, but being quick to judge can make you look like an idiot in the long run.
you had a good run Hank.
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Plus, I don't see Shurmur having any input on the defensive side of the ball. That will be all Jauron.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
Certainly this has the massive potential to blow up in their face, but being quick to judge can make you look like an idiot in the long run.
He's a second tier HC on his first assignment. He's going to have a lot on his plate already, that's why a some of us don't like this. It's nice to be optimistic, but you can't live in the world of unicorns forever.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Quote:
Quote:
Certainly this has the massive potential to blow up in their face, but being quick to judge can make you look like an idiot in the long run.
He's a second tier HC on his first assignment. He's going to have a lot on his plate already, that's why a some of us don't like this. It's nice to be optimistic, but you can't live in the world of unicorns forever.
There is a difference in "living in the world of unicorns" and not assuming something is going to fail because it's different.
It has the potential to fail, sure. However, there is nothing of substance to say this is a good or bad idea yet.
you had a good run Hank.
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1st time head coach. What? two years as an OC before that? Sorry, he is an idiot, and his bosses are nuts.
#gmstrong
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At least you aren't making an irrational assumption based on absolutely nothing... 
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
]
There is a difference in "living in the world of unicorns" and not assuming something is going to fail because it's different.
It has the potential to fail, sure. However, there is nothing of substance to say this is a good or bad idea yet.
You have to admit, it's not the greatest of situations. I'd feel different if there was something in his past that showed he's ready, besides being one of the few who even considered coming here.
Look, I want the guy to do well, I really do. I want him to be the next great head coach and guide us to victory. I just don't see this guy being any more then a punching bag for the media.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Sure, I'll admit, in my opinion, I'd rather him not be calling plays and being the offensive coordinator, and it certainly look to me, in my opinion, to be a setup for a disaster...but that's just my opinion.
Things work in the NFL that nobody's ever thought of or done before. This could be the new wave of the future or the last time someone tries that. The only thing I do know is that it's risky. It would appear that they have a plan with this, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt unless/until it fails.
you had a good run Hank.
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Sure, I'll admit, in my opinion, I'd rather him not be calling plays and being the offensive coordinator, and it certainly look to me, in my opinion, to be a setup for a disaster...but that's just my opinion.
Things work in the NFL that nobody's ever thought of or done before. This could be the new wave of the future or the last time someone tries that. The only thing I do know is that it's risky. It would appear that they have a plan with this, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt unless/until it fails.
I want to be wrong, I want to be ham sandwich wrong.
To me it's better to have the Browns win then to be right 
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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My biggest concerns, as I have stated before, are the blurred roles between front office and coaching staff, a lack of overall accountability with those stepping down from the front office to "help", and that Shurmur starts looking like an assistant in front of the team.
Shurmur is going to have to have a really strong personality or he's going to be overwhelmed by the bigger Holmgren/Haskell personalities/experience, IMHO. He could get run over even if those above have the best of intentions.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I have no problem with this either.
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At least you aren't making an irrational assumption based on absolutely nothing...
I don't find it irrational at all. Being a 1st time head coach his job is going to be incredibly difficult. He doesn't just have to worry about the offense There is no way that he is just going to turn over the defense and special teams to those coordinators. He is going to want his hands on everything (as he should).
I can see an experienced coach doing both roles but not an inexperienced first timer. Can he succeed? sure. I still will think he is an idiot for trying.
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Addtionally, TBBD, it isn't like we have had a recent history of having successful OCs calling the plays.
The way I see it, we have a HC that has had success in the OC job with young QBs and it's likely that he'll be working closely with Colt on his progress. Shurmer is intelligent and will call plays that will help Colt McCoy succeed.
Again, I have no problem with this decision at all.
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First time HC has nothing to do with it.
All HC were first time HCs and a good number of them turned out to be successful at the job.
I suspect that Shurmer trusts his asst. coaches and coordinators to do their jobs with as little input from him as possible. I totally expect that Jauron will be able to handle the DC job without input from Shurmer.
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I have no problem with this either.
+1
Doing "normal" hasn't worked for a long while for us. Let's change it up.
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It's seems pretty obvious that Holmgren will be easily accessible for Shurmur.
We don't have an offensive coordinator. We just have a guy who has a Ph.D in the West Coast offense who is in the same building as our head coach. And who is willing to help.
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First time HC has nothing to do with it.
All HC were first time HCs and a good number of them turned out to be successful at the job.
I suspect that Shurmer trusts his asst. coaches and coordinators to do their jobs with as little input from him as possible. I totally expect that Jauron will be able to handle the DC job without input from Shurmer.
Being a 1st time head coach is not the issue I have. Being a 1st time head coach with limited experience as an OC and deciding to be his own OC and calling plays is what I have an issue with. This is a tall task for most head coaches, especially with the lack of experience he has.
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somehow I'm not worried about this either.
Many HCs called their own plays.
Do the name Paul Brown ring a bell?
PS can't be worse than the last several years ( somone already beat me to this)
Last edited by Line Judge; 02/11/11 02:49 AM.
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somehow I'm not worried about this either.
Many HCs called their own plays.
Do the name Paul Brown ring a bell?
PS can't be worse than the last several years ( somone already beat me to this)
Nor am I...
You guys are under estimating the value of Shurmur's 12 years close involvement in this so-called WCO...Same with Whipple...Whipple might as well have the title OC/QB Coach cause that's exactly what this boils down to...No different than the teams who have a Titled OC and the HC calls the plays...
And over-estimating the involvement u think Holmgren and Heckert will have...
You make it sound like these 2 will be on the sidelines embarrassing Shurmur...That's funny...So is the PANIC some of u guys r portraying...
BTW...
Quote:
Shurmur also said "it's a logical assumption'' that quarterback Colt McCoy will be the Browns starter in 2011.
There ya' go...This is now McCoy's boat...
Go Browns!!!
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree.
And now let's take a count of how many people actually give Shurmur some CREDIT for virtually naming McCoy our STARTER going forward...Instead of the yearly BS of not knowing till the week of the Opener...
That right there is MAJOR...
Go Browns!!!
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Lil' more in depth...
Friday, February 11, 2011, 4:45 AM Updated: Friday, February 11, 2011, 4:46 AM
Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio — Browns coach Pat Shurmur confirmed Thursday he will go without an offensive coordinator -- an unorthodox move in the NFL -- and said his staff is basically complete.
He said he will call the plays and act as head coach/offensive coordinator his first season on the job.
"I think it's going to stay that way [without a coordinator]," he said at the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards, where he was a presenter. "I will actually take that role and then we have quite a few very accomplished coaches on offense."
Shurmur believes he will be fine assuming the extra duty, even though this is his first time as a head coach. Only one NFL team went without an offensive coordinator in 2010 -- the Patriots under coach Bill Belichick. The Cardinals split the job between running- and passing-game coordinators.
"I feel like we've hired a terrific staff and everybody on this staff has roles and issues of the day," Shurmur said.
"I feel really good about how we've structured things and I think it's going to work well."
Shurmur, who spent the past two seasons calling plays as the Rams' offensive coordinator, said there was never any doubt he would call his own plays here.
"I think that's the key piece," Shurmur said. "As you go through the week, you put the plan together and everybody in the room has input. I think that's the way I'll do it."
Shurmur hired Mark Whipple as his quarterbacks coach and Mike Wilson as his receivers coach. He retained three offensive assistants from former coach Eric Mangini's staff: Gary Brown (running backs), Steve Hagen (tight ends) and George Warhop (offensive line).
Whipple has five years of NFL experience, including three with the Steelers in quarterback Ben Roethlisberger's first three seasons in the league. Wilson has six years of NFL experience, covering stints with the Raiders and Cardinals.
Shurmur hoped to hire either Mike McCoy or Bill Musgrave as offensive coordinator, but McCoy remained in Denver and Musgrave took the Vikings job.
"We made an effort to hire the very best guys we could, and I think that's the way it shaped up this year," Shurmur said.
Shurmur said he's thrilled to have landed defensive coordinator Dick Jauron, who worked under Browns President Mike Holmgren in Green Bay, and alongside Shurmur's uncle Fritz, who was the Packers' defensive coordinator.
"I've known Dick a long time, just in the profession," Shurmur said. "He and my uncle worked together. I've got a great deal of respect for him, and I've really become close to him as you can at NFL functions. I've obviously got a high amount of respect for him as a person and a coach."
Other topics Shurmur addressed during a 10-minute interview:
• On Colt McCoy as the starting QB heading into camp: "It would be a logical assumption."
• On what he said upon meeting Josh Cribbs for the first time Thursday: "I said what I wanted for him was to get in the end zone, so it's the start. He seemed to give me a big smile, so I think we're on the same page."
• On cutting six players, including Pro Bowl nose tackle Shaun Rogers: "I think every NFL team reshapes their roster each year, so that's the beginning phase and from here on out we'll just keep doing the things we need to do to make us as good as we can be."
• On whether Jauron, who coached Rogers in Detroit, helped make the decision to cut Rogers: "We had conversations behind the scenes, but I'm not sure that prior relationship had much to do with it."
• On whether he will switch to a 4-3 defense: "That's part of the roster shaping. I think that will become obvious soon."
• On the league's labor uncertainty: "It's business as usual right now. And then obviously if something happens, we have a plan in place and we'll execute it. but for right now, we're moving forward with calendars like we'll be playing ball."
Go Browns!!!
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j/c
NO, he's the HC. So he's going to be the one responsible for whatever happens. BUT the strings you see attached to all his appendages are controled by Holmgren. And the big hole in his jockey shorts is where Holmgrens hand goes to make him talk...
Seriously, you guys think Holmgren will stake his rep on a first time HC pulling double duty AND NOT BE HEAVILY INVOLVED?
GMAFB... Almost looks like he's a Patsy. If it succeeds he gets to keep playing the pupet role... If he fails, after one or two seasons of personel aquisition... Holmgren and Haskell will ascend from the heavens and take over...
I don't believe for one minute that Holmgren hasn't put this together just they way he wants it. This teams in bad shape, Holmgren needs time to get the pieces in place so he brings in a fall guy.
Randy could have hired a better coach than this schmuck.
End Rant... now go drink the koolaide Browns fans.
I really want to win. So I'll except anything and everything Holmgren and Company do... And I'll keep hoping things work out. BUT I DON"T HAVE TO LIKE IT UNTIL THEY WIN!
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I'm pretty sure Whipple will play a larger role than just QB coach...
I'm not concerned.. If the guy is confident he can do it, then why not.. He may figure that if I lose my job, it's gonna be b/c of me.. not someone else.. ie Gini keeping Daboll. I'm sure Daboll wasn't the lone reason, but no doubt Daboll wasn't a favorite around here.
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree.
And now let's take a count of how many people actually give Shurmur some CREDIT for virtually naming McCoy our STARTER going forward...Instead of the yearly BS of not knowing till the week of the Opener...
That right there is MAJOR...
Who the hell else was he going to name?
No offense, but that's really digging there. McCoy was already named the starter in fact by the former coach .... so naming him the starter "as a logical assumption" is just that .... a continuation of the past year's status quo ..... not to mention that the biggest reason that an offensive coach was brought in was to work with McCoy.
It's so "major" that it was really a fait accompli.
I still have to ask why the Browns interviewed guys to be offensive coordinator if they had decided that they would go without one. That just doesn't seem like a logical progression to me.
This just seems like one hell of a lot of stuff to be piled on a first time head coach's plate. To me it does not look like the best path to success. Hopefully he'll beat the odds and be a successful head coach who does everything himself. That's not usually a successful model in business, or in the NFL ..... but let's hope he a rare one who can really do it all. It just seems to me that most head coaches fail not because they aren't involved enough with their teams on a detail basis ..... but because they get so bogged down in the most minor detail and minucia that they lose track of the big picture.
Well, it is what it is, and like someone else said. "normal" hasn't worked too well around here lately, so hopefully this will. I would hesitate before betting the farm on it though. I see a lot of potholes, perils and potential problems along this road.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't see it as too big of a deal. He's got coaches and coordinators that he trusts.
We'll have to see how things go next season. If the team makes marked improvements in the make up of the team via the draft and a FA acquisition or two, his job might not be as hard as you're making it out to be.
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The Browns interviews with prospective OCs probably ended with them not being confident enough in them to the point of hiring them.
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Quote:
The Browns interviews with prospective OCs probably ended with them not being confident enough in them to the point of hiring them.
From the article above:
Shurmur hoped to hire either Mike McCoy or Bill Musgrave as offensive coordinator, but McCoy remained in Denver and Musgrave took the Vikings job.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Not real reson why, but I don't get the sense that Shurmur is going to get a lot of help at OC "behind the scenes" as he performs his duties as the head coach. I get the sense it's the other way around. In reality he'll be the OC and get a lot of the "behind the scenes" help with the head coaching duties.
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I see a lot of potholes, perils and potential problems along this road.
You forgot "pitfalls"
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Quote:
Quote:
I see a lot of potholes, perils and potential problems along this road.
You forgot "pitfalls"
I was trying to forget ..... but thanks for reminding me. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Exactly. Holmgren wouldn't have signed off on this if he thought it was an especially bad idea. I think Shurmur's got some pretty good minds to bounce things off of and if the Walrus isn't happy with how things are going he would probably bring someone else in to help out. Going from Mangini who seemed kind of "meh" about the offense to Shurmur who we know is going to be dedicated to that side of the ball. He's surrounded by experienced coaches. I really don't see this as a bad thing. It will be apparent early on if he's overwhelmed with the responsibilities. Quote:
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I have no problem with this either.
+1
Doing "normal" hasn't worked for a long while for us. Let's change it up.
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This guy is an idiot.
just clicking...
I want to know why Browns fans are concerned about the Browns having an offensive coordinator?
Shurmur said he would be calling the plays from the very beginning when first introduced as the Browns HC. He was an offensive coordinator when the Browns hired him and it is not unusual for NFL HCs to call their own plays.
To argue that it is somehow unusual or won't work goes against "reality" and the results of the last two Super Bowls...two teams that have HCs who call their own plays.
If your team's HC is calling the plays, why is it "necessary" to have an OC?
Yes, the Saints and Packers have someone "named" to the OC position, but that is meaningless if it is the HC calling the plays, setting up the game plan. Those individuals named to the OC position of the Packers and Saints are essentially "helpers"...they are their teams OC "in name only".
If some Browns fans are worried that Shurmur will not have enough help, if someone is not named as OC...you would be mistaken. Shurmur will have "helpers" too..even if no one is named to the OC position.
Would it make some Browns fans happy if Shurmur named a "phony" OC?..someone who did not have any power over the game plan or play calling?
Shurmur is calling the plays, just as Sean Peyton does for the Saints...just as Mike McCarthy does for the Packers.
Would it make some Browns fans happier if Shurmur hired some stiff to hold the title of OC, knowing he is never going to be the actual OC?
Would it make some Browns fans happier if Shurmur's title was HC/OC?
If some Browns fans are worried about the number of coaches listed on the offensive side...the Browns do not list all their interns or assistants...those who do a lot of the leg work/grunt work for the coaches.
Shurmur does have an assistant to the HC and an offensive assistant listed on the coaching roster.
Shurmur has 3 or 4 offensive coaches on his staff who have been offensive coordinators in college, so it's not like the Browns offensive coaching staff is void of offensive football IQ.
Concerning the new article posted by DinD and the news that the Browns tried to hire Mike McCoy and Bill Musgrave to fill the OC position...these two "young" guys opted to take positions where they will be calling the plays rather than be Shurmur's helper or OC in name only.
I have little doubt that McCoy and Musgrave felt they were ready to be OCs, hoping that they too will land a HCing job in the future.
Mike McCoy is 38 yrs old and this is the first time he will be calling the plays and the first time he has been an OC at any level.
Bill Musgrave is 43 yrs old and was an OC for one season (2000) for the Panthers and two seasons for the Jaguars (2003, 2004).
How many of those complaining would rather have one of these individuals running the Browns offense, rather than Shurmur?
I don't get it, why are some of you upset/worried that Shurmur is not filling the OC position?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Because he did not have very much success when he was an OC, on a team with, at worst, comparable talent and in a division where no team finished above .500.
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General reply:
If i was HC, I would want to call the plays on both sides of the ball. So playcalling isn't an issue for me at all.
If the system was already in place for a couple of years, I would have no problem with Shurmur wanting to come in and do it all but that isnt the case. He is going to be teaching a new language to half the roster and to many of his coaches. How many of these coaches have an extensive background in the west coast offense?
I am not worried about the players perceiving Shurmur as a puppet. Within the first week of camp, Shurmur would do well to make an example of some lazy individual. Rip him for not working hard, then send him packing. I think allowing the Ted Washington practice sessions is the real danger when it comes to losing players respect.
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Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
This guy is an idiot.
in the end, you may turn out to be right, but how about we let him coach his first Rookie Mini camp before we start calling him names.
I am not exactly excited by what I see happening but none of us have any idea what the plan actually is or why they feel the need to do it this way..
I still have a lotta faith in Holmgren and Heckert.. I'm convinced this is the management team that will fix the Browns.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Shurmur confirms no OC
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