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Haden and Ward could both be busts...Courtney Brown and Gerrad Warren tore it up their rookie years...
I guess we have a different definition of bust.
From my eyes neither one of those guys was a bust.
One sustained a serious knee injury from which he never recovered and the other has been a starting defensive tackle in the league for 12 or so years.
Gonna have to disagree with you on Warren 'peen. First Warren's rookie year was 2001, so he's only been in the league 10 years, not 12. Second he's only averaged 32.3 tackles and 3.6 sacks per year over his career. His best year statistically was actually his rookie year here in Cleveland when he had 61 tackles and 5 sacks. It's been a pretty steady drop-off from there. Not to mention he's already on his 4th team and has never stuck anywhere for more than the 4 years he played here in Cleveland. Cleveland - 4, Denver - 2, Oakland - 3, New England - 1.
Has he been a decent depth/serviceable rotation guy? Sure. That would be fine had he been a 4th round pick. That's not acceptable for the #3 pick of the 1st round.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Hall of Famer
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Agree, but only somewhat, with the second part of your post. But as for the stats, the numbers, the tackles and sacks you can only judge that by what he was asked to do. If he was asked to make tackles and sacks the yeah, the stats aren't so great. But if he was being asked to eat blocks so others could make the tackles then he's going to have very low numbers.
That's the trouble with stats. There are so many variables to take into consideration.
My own opinion? For any player to last that long in the league with the average career being what, 3 years, then that's not a bust.
#gmstrong
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I agree with that. I'm hardly a defensive guru, but my understanding of the 4-3 DT position is that their job is to eat up blocks and stop the run at the LOS (to grossly oversimplify things). There were only three defensive tackles in the top 50 in sacks this season, one of them being freak of nature Ndamukong Suh.
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Hall of Famer
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...and Anthony Henry has had a fairly decent career too.
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Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Haden and Ward could both be busts...Courtney Brown and Gerrad Warren tore it up their rookie years...
I guess we have a different definition of bust.
From my eyes neither one of those guys was a bust.
One sustained a serious knee injury from which he never recovered and the other has been a starting defensive tackle in the league for 12 or so years.
Gonna have to disagree with you on Warren 'peen. First Warren's rookie year was 2001, so he's only been in the league 10 years, not 12. Second he's only averaged 32.3 tackles and 3.6 sacks per year over his career. His best year statistically was actually his rookie year here in Cleveland when he had 61 tackles and 5 sacks. It's been a pretty steady drop-off from there. Not to mention he's already on his 4th team and has never stuck anywhere for more than the 4 years he played here in Cleveland. Cleveland - 4, Denver - 2, Oakland - 3, New England - 1.
Has he been a decent depth/serviceable rotation guy? Sure. That would be fine had he been a 4th round pick. That's not acceptable for the #3 pick of the 1st round.
Sorry to jump in, but what do you think a 1st round pick should be, always a superstar Hall of Famer? I myself, am just looking for a starter, and Big Money was that for every team he played for. ( I didn't check NE). Yes I think he could have, if wanted to, made it to a Pro Bowl or two, but he didn't have drive. He did just enough to start and keep playing for the last 10 years and thats not bad. We should be mad at over paying him, but how is that his problem.
Anyone want to over pay me...I'll take it 
Go Browns !!!!
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Haden and Ward could both be busts...Courtney Brown and Gerrad Warren tore it up their rookie years...
I guess we have a different definition of bust.
From my eyes neither one of those guys was a bust.
One sustained a serious knee injury from which he never recovered and the other has been a starting defensive tackle in the league for 12 or so years.
Gonna have to disagree with you on Warren 'peen. First Warren's rookie year was 2001, so he's only been in the league 10 years, not 12. Second he's only averaged 32.3 tackles and 3.6 sacks per year over his career. His best year statistically was actually his rookie year here in Cleveland when he had 61 tackles and 5 sacks. It's been a pretty steady drop-off from there. Not to mention he's already on his 4th team and has never stuck anywhere for more than the 4 years he played here in Cleveland. Cleveland - 4, Denver - 2, Oakland - 3, New England - 1.
Has he been a decent depth/serviceable rotation guy? Sure. That would be fine had he been a 4th round pick. That's not acceptable for the #3 pick of the 1st round.
LOL.....OK.....10 years....I didn't know the dorks were counting days....10 years, 12 years.
You get to my age, 30 years seems like 6 years ago.
The point is he has been on 4 teams and started for them....teams better then us.
He may not have become the next Leroy Selmon as was hoped, but he is WAY past being a bust.
Get real.
Last edited by Ballpeen; 02/13/11 07:28 PM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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Legend
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personally I think he is a bust.. For where he was drafted, at some point in his career he should have been playing on a pro bowl level.. he has never, and reason why he has been on so many teams.
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Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
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personally I think he is a bust.. For where he was drafted, at some point in his career he should have been playing on a pro bowl level.. he has never, and reason why he has been on so many teams.
It sounds like he was drafted to high, maybe instead of a bust, his pick was a reach.
What if we picked him at 19th or 20th overall, would you still feel he was a bust?
Go Browns !!!!
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Legend
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Legend
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I agree.
The fact he went on to play for "10 years" a s starter with multiple teams means he has had a solid playing career.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Dawg Talker
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On average, there are a half dozen to a dozen pro-bowl caliber players drafted each year. If the guy drafted #3 overall isn't one of those, he's a bust. Plain and simple.
Again, he's been good enough to stick around for 10 years, as a starter and rotational depth guy...and been basically league average. Decent career? Absolutely....for a 4th round draft pick. NOT for the #3 pick.
And when I say that pick was a "bust" it's as much a comment on the Browns for taking him there as it is on him the player. It's not HIS fault we picked him there but that's immaterial. You have to be able to get a stud with a top 3 pick and he flat out never was that.
JaMarcus Russell wouldn't be considered one of the biggest busts ever if he was a 7th round pick instead of #1 overall. Draft position matters because if a guy you drafted in the 1st round "only" performs like a guy you could have drafted in the later rounds...that means you could/should have waited to draft a player of their caliber until later in the draft and taken someone more worthy of the higher pick instead of them.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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JaMarcus Russell wouldn't be considered one of the biggest busts ever if he was a 7th round pick instead of #1 overall.
Then again, had he worked hard and stuck around for 10 years, mostly as a starter, you could hardly call him a bust.
#gmstrong
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