|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
Good point. I could have been trying to put something together that actually wasn't there.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,548
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,548 |
Francies? Really? A 6th round pick who would up in the UFL? Really?  As far as "no issues" ..... maybe you should look back to his college career ...... gun charge ... thrown of the team ..... and so on ....... 32 year old Fraley was replaced at Center by Mack. That was definitely a step up. Any problems our OL had were not at RG, but at RT. Fraley was active for 7 games with the Rams last season, and started ..... zero. Another case of "If this is the biggest mistake they make, we'll be OK". Brandon McDonald falls into the "Really???" category as well. Bouncing from Cleveland .... to Arizona ...... to Detroit ....... and my, what a difference maker he has been.  We traded for Brown and drafted Haden. BFD if our (then) worst CB got upset over that. Wallace was our backup QB. He remains our backup QB today. Big deal. This is one of those "move along, nothing to see here folks" things .... because there really is nothing to see here. He was the backup, he did his job when the starter was hurt, then the 3rd string player played, got hurt, and then the starter went back in. The starter then went 2-1 before being replaced by the "hot new" rookie. Do you think that Wallace would have gone 3-0 in those 3 starts that Delhomme got? Really? I would like to think that you're smarter than that. I would really like to think so ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I guess you enjoyed watching Ray Ventrone in Nickel and Dime packages trying to cover anything...but he tried at least, right? he tried soooo hard, how can you not root for him...well, he sucked big time...pretty much the worst player I've seen in a long time, and I'm not talking Browns only, I'm talking league wide over th epast years: how this dude got serious playing time is enough reason and evidence to fire a lot of coaches...he was a fringe ST-only guy for years for a reason...any yes, Francies or McDonald would have been much better....McDonald even started 2 games in DET and played pretty good in both (saw both)
Jennings and Bell over Harrison of course was the biggest stupid doghouse move that hurt us...talked that 1 to death, there is no argument to defend Mangini here
Fraley was the best RG any fan has seen play in 2009 for the Browns, which isn't exactly a compliment for Fraley but pretty telling how bad the Mangini guys sucked...and not onyl that, the whole OL was visibly more compact thanks to his presence (and probably line calls)
and in case you missed it: as bad a starter Wallace is, he had the best comp % and passer rating of all 3 QBs last season...and yes I think we would have won the Bills game and would have not have to pray for a pretty good vet K (Kasay) to have a career worst day by missing 2 FGs to win a game if we'd have played Wallace over Delhomme....go tell me with a straight face that after you saw Delhomme and Wallace in the 1st weeks you'd consider Delhomme the better option to win a game, do it: I need a new sig anyway...you know, because that's the job description of a HC...but Mangini had only Delhomme left at that time since he stubbornly put Wallace away in another of his famous megalomaniac attacks
The funniest punchline of his tenure was that his delusions of grandeur got him fired...again. And we haven't even touched on his obvious gameday shortcomings...out of RAC and Butcher he was even worse a HC...and that's really saying something considering the level of ineptness of the former 2
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,548
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,548 |
Harrison was traded after week 5.
He got 9 carries in week 1. Hillis also got 9 carries in week 1.
In week 2, Harrison got 16 carries ... for 33 yards. Hillis, coming off a 2 fumble performance, only had 8 carries, but for 35 yards.
Week 3 against Baltimore was Hillis' expolosive 144 yard game. Harrison did not play due to a thigh injury.
In week 4, Hillis had 27 carries for 102 yards. Harrison had none. Harrison also just came back from injury, and who knows how he performed during the week? Do you? I don't.
In week 5, Hillis had 10 carries for 28 yards, and Harrison had 6 carries for 6. Harrison was traded after this game.
The rest of the year (11 games) saw Harrison gain 239 yards for the Eagles, and Mike Bell gain 71 for the Browns. Neither guy was a siginificant difference maker for his team.
Francies, after having no one in the NFL take a chance on him, went to the UFL. Then he returned to the Browns late in the year.
McDonald did not want to be here as the 4th CB, but that's what he became. Do you now how he reacted to that demotion? He then went to Arizona .... and was cut by them. Maybe after being cut a couple of time he finally said "Hey, I better get my butt in gear or else I'll be a former NFL player".
"Best completion %" is almost worthless when you are talking about 2 or 3 %, and everyone is over 60%.
It's especially insignificant when you use a guy with 100 pass attempts, and that somehow 3 additional completions during those 100 were somehow incedibly important.
In the end, it came down to whow as going to hold onto the spot until McCoy was healthy again, and who would relinquish the spot without causing a major stink. Delhomme was that guy. He went 2-1 during that timeframe. In the end, this was a minor issue that you have blown up into some huge thing. It was 3 games for whoever started, then they were going to the bench so that McCoy could finish the season.
Not one of the "major" things you brought up was truly major outside of your own mind. The closest was McDonald, and again, we have no idea how he reacted to losing his starting job, or what he said when he was bumped to #4. He obviously didn't set the world on fire with Arizona. In fact, did he even get a snap on defense with the Cardinals? Arizona was a bottom 10 pass defense last year ..... yet they also couldn't find a spot for McDonald. They replaced him with an undrafted free agent.
He then went to the Lions, and I'll take your word for it how well he played. The stats say that he had 19 tackles, no INT, 1 pass defensed, and 1 fumble recovery in 10 games. He then went on IR. Again, hardly a big difference maker. The Lions did win their final 3 games without him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 814
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 814 |
Quote:
I guess you enjoyed watching Ray Ventrone in Nickel and Dime packages trying to cover anything...but he tried at least, right? he tried soooo hard, how can you not root for him...well, he sucked big time...pretty much the worst player I've seen in a long time, and I'm not talking Browns only, I'm talking league wide over th epast years: how this dude got serious playing time is enough reason and evidence to fire a lot of coaches...he was a fringe ST-only guy for years for a reason...any yes, Francies or McDonald would have been much better....McDonald even started 2 games in DET and played pretty good in both (saw both)
Jennings and Bell over Harrison of course was the biggest stupid doghouse move that hurt us...talked that 1 to death, there is no argument to defend Mangini here
Fraley was the best RG any fan has seen play in 2009 for the Browns, which isn't exactly a compliment for Fraley but pretty telling how bad the Mangini guys sucked...and not onyl that, the whole OL was visibly more compact thanks to his presence (and probably line calls)
and in case you missed it: as bad a starter Wallace is, he had the best comp % and passer rating of all 3 QBs last season...and yes I think we would have won the Bills game and would have not have to pray for a pretty good vet K (Kasay) to have a career worst day by missing 2 FGs to win a game if we'd have played Wallace over Delhomme....go tell me with a straight face that after you saw Delhomme and Wallace in the 1st weeks you'd consider Delhomme the better option to win a game, do it: I need a new sig anyway...you know, because that's the job description of a HC...but Mangini had only Delhomme left at that time since he stubbornly put Wallace away in another of his famous megalomaniac attacks
The funniest punchline of his tenure was that his delusions of grandeur got him fired...again. And we haven't even touched on his obvious gameday shortcomings...out of RAC and Butcher he was even worse a HC...and that's really saying something considering the level of ineptness of the former 2
Nice post. I really agree that Bmac would have been a light years better option than slow as death Ventrone. Bmac, Harrison, once Mangini did not like you, you were history, and he RUINED our other corner by leaving him on the ravens wr to get torched so bad he never recovered his confidence. there were no safeties in the same zipcode helping him. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Who said "major"? Not me for sure...you asked for Mangini doghouse players, saying there was only Harrison, which wasn't true. Also, I already said he liked to kick the low leverage dogs on his roster instead of the big bucks guys...as I said: double standard all the way
While those players were "only" depth guys it hurt the Browns and that's not a HC's job...how anyone can talk about improvement or process when in year 2 of your "process" Ray Ventrone makes the field because of stupid mobbing jobs of depth players is beyond me....that's regression right there no matter how you look at it...go rewatch the JAX game, Ventrone was a big contributor to this loss
and how many times do I have to say that Harrison is a good CHANGE OF PACE RB who would have complimented Hillis perfectly if used properly and more important TREATED better...no, I don't know how he looked that week but I know for sure what Mangini said pregame and that was that he'll need and use BOTH, then he keeps Harrison on the sideline the entire game until the kneel down....that's a jerk move and pretty much asks the player to blow up on your face...again, imagine your boss treating you like this...TALKING nicely in your face and then SCREWING you in front of the whole staff. Mangini wanted him to lick his feet and Harrison probably told him to go **** ....something every human being with a backbone should do
You talk donw these players because of their relevance but let's 1st see where your boy ends up and how relevant he'll be compared to those players....the only one out of the league is the snake man himself right now
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,548
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,548 |
Again, how do you know that these guys were ever in Mangini's "Doghouse"?
Francies went on to do ..... nothing ..., and came back to us late in the year.
McDonald did very little with 2 other teams.
Wallace was the backup QB to start the year, and was the backup to end the year.
Harrison was a backup RB with limited production here,. and was a backup RB with limited production in Philly.
You seem to think that guys who were cut were in the doghouse .... or guys who didn't start at one point or another were in the doghouse ..... but the only proof you have is ...... almost none.
Harrison was reportedly unhappy being a backup and wanted out ... so he was traded. Now he wants to be a starter, and has said that he will not go back to Philly because he wants to start. Does that mean that he is in Reid's doghouse? No, it means that they have a more capable starter, and if he wants to be annointed the starter, well he'll have to go elsewhere.
Again, Harrison has been quoted as saying that he WILL NOT re-sign with Philly because he wants to be THE guy. He doesn't want to be a complimentary back ... he wants to be THE back. That attitude hasn't changed even with a change of teams. I honestly don't understand how you could miss that. It astonsihes me.
Actually it doesn't surprise me at all .... because that woudn't fit your agenda.
Anyway, the last guy is gone, and the new guy is here. Let's hope that he makes excellent decisions all across the board.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,090
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,090 |
I often wonder why or if there really is anything to a player being in the coaches "Dog House" or if that's a media/fan justification for a player not playing or being released/traded.
Mangini always said that a player that practices hard and well gets to play on Sunday (I paraphrased that of course)
We don't know how players practice so who are any of us to say that sitting/releasing/trading a guy isn't justified.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218 |
I'd say that it is no different than someone that feels that they don't get any breaks at work because their boss "doesn't like them".
That is to say that it is all perception. Sometimes, yes, the boss actually won't like them. Often times, the reality is that the boss doesn't really care about the person one way or the other, only the quality of the work and effort. Other times still, it'll all just be in the head of the employee that thinks they are being treated worse when they are actually being treated the same.
It's life, and humans - there isn't one answer, which is why this sort of thing is never truly anything other than speculation by us and the media.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,090
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,090 |
Quote:
I'd say that it is no different than someone that feels that they don't get any breaks at work because their boss "doesn't like them".
That is to say that it is all perception. Sometimes, yes, the boss actually won't like them. Often times, the reality is that the boss doesn't really care about the person one way or the other, only the quality of the work and effort. Other times still, it'll all just be in the head of the employee that thinks they are being treated worse when they are actually being treated the same.
It's life, and humans - there isn't one answer, which is why this sort of thing is never truly anything other than speculation by us and the media.
Yup, that about sums it up!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Which part of Mangini SAYING 1 thing and DOING the opposite didn't you guys get? That's NOT perception, that's what actually HAPPENED
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218 |
And??
Stuff happens. Opportunities come and go, situations change. He said he'd put him in for that one game and all he got was a kneel down... big freakin' deal! Whoopity Doo!
Wait, you're totally right, I think it means that Mangini secretly wanted to travel back in time and kill Harrison's parents so he could never be born and thus never taint a Mangini roster... yeah, that's it! He HATED him!!!!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,090
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,090 |
Quote:
Which part of Mangini SAYING 1 thing and DOING the opposite didn't you guys get? That's NOT perception, that's what actually HAPPENED
Wow, I guess you aren't allowing for things to change here and there.
Mostly Django, I think this comes under the heading of "much ado about nothing"
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 814
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 814 |
Quote:
Quote:
Which part of Mangini SAYING 1 thing and DOING the opposite didn't you guys get? That's NOT perception, that's what actually HAPPENED
Wow, I guess you aren't allowing for things to change here and there.
Mostly Django, I think this comes under the heading of "much ado about nothing"
Well, Player relations helped put Mangini in a doghouse of his own making, and Nothing is now unemployed. he can roll his ball bearings in his hand somewhere else. 
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Solving a few of the 10 great
mysteries of the 2010 Cleveland
Browns: NFL I
|
|
