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After taking Clausen in the 2nd round last year?

If Carolina is going to tell their fans that they've given up on their 2nd round pick from a year ago and will be selecting a QB with first overall pick this year, they can expect a backlash.

If Carolina does that, they're setting their franchise back another 5 years. If Clausen is the reason that Carolina went 2-14 and ended up with the first overall selection this year then the whole Panthers fan base needs to be put on a lithium diet. They're going to be depressed for a long, long time.

Well, let's look at it this way. You're the owner of the Panthers. You've shelled out some bucks for last years draft (including Clausen) and you've hired a new coach. He tells you that he wants his players and that last years picks just won't do and that you'll be taking a QB with the overall #1 selection and to open up your pocketbook some more. I don't think that will sit very well at all.

I don't know if he would love the idea ... but the new coach doesn't owe the old coaches selections anything. If the GM is still high on Clausen (I think that the same one is there) then maybe they give him a year ...but the owner has more or less no say in it. They will be spending "1st pick" money on anyone they draft anyway ... and it's not like owners can afford to have back to back 2-14 seasons ... because even if they save money on not drafting a top quarterback, they will lose when no one comes to the games ...

It happens all the time ... a brand new coach isn't coming in unless he either A. likes his quarterbacl or B. has the option to get his own ... in the last few years alone Quinn and Anderson were both jettisoned when the new guys came in ... heck McDaniels cut the rope on Cutler ...

Don't get me wrong, I see your point. And I'm not sure that they WILL take a quarterback or if they do believe in Clausen.

I just remember when they were talking about the Denver situation ... one of the problems would be when the new coach comes in, he is going to "inherit" Tebow as a first round pick and that could create controversy.

I just see it the same way here ... if Ron Rivera walks into the meeting and they say "You are the head coach, and if you can't produce in the Not For Long league, you are gone.... so While we will do anything to make your team better, you HAVE to go forward with Clausen as your quarterback..."

I would just assume that most coaches would want to at least have their say in their franchise quarterback than have a "shotgun wedding" of a quarterback situation.

I'm not arguing that it wouldn't set them back .. and I think that Rivera lived and died by the blitz and the front 7 pressure in San Diego. All the more reason for him to want to take one of the monsters.

That being said ... if they aren't set on Jimmy Clausen, I'm not sure that they can "wait" to fix the position. If they think that Cam or Gabbert is better than Clausen, then they can instantly win more games (or at least sell that to the fans don't forget).

Any pick that can help is great, but a Quarterback has more impact than any other position. If you can't get that position right, you're in trouble.

I understand where you're coming from but if a coach has to bring in a QB that will fit the system he wants (and Rivera coming from the defensive side of the ball shouldn't care) who the QB is. Rather, he should worry about getting the right pieces there and should inform his OC that he needs to plan on going forward with Clausen at the helm for the moment.

If a team, any team, begins to draft to replace their field general every year, they're on a losing track.

Let's take a look at Carolina, for example.

Last year, they selected Clausen in the 2nd round as the QB they will be using to go forward. The coach got fired because the team went 2-14.

If they select a QB in the 1st round but the selection turns to be a bust (or even if it doesn't) and the team does not meet expectations and the coach is replaced in 2 or 3 years, your suggestion is that the new head coach should be allowed to bring in new players that fit that scheme. That's fine.

As Cleveland fans, we know about the coaching carousel and the QB carousel all too well and we know that doesn't lead to success at all. That is, I think, the reason that Holmgren brought in Delhomme (as a stop gap) and Wallace but drafted McCoy. As soon as Holmgren was brought in, I think Mangini's fate was sealed. McCoy was drafted to be the field general under a coach who knows Holmgren and will execute that system. Hence, Pat Shurmur was brought in.

The Browns will improve next season precisely because the pieces on offense fit the system that Holmgren and Co. want to institute. There might be a few growing pains on the defensive side of the ball, but even that isn't a given. There was a lot of players shed that wouldn't fit the 4-3. We'll have missing pieces there (if we don't acquire them in the draft or free agency), but they'll fit the scheme that they want.

one of the reasons an owner replaces a coach is the he fully expects a new coach to come in with a clean slate on the players. come in, re-evaluate every position and figure out which players are worth keeping and which to replace.

this is regardless of draft position, etc. but obviously the coach needs to hold some regard for how well they fit with their schemes.

if Carolina believes that Claussen was a 'bust' draft pick or if they just feel like Newton and/or Gabbert are going to be franchise QBs and Claussen is not at that level, then they should go that route.

personally, I think it would be folly this year to draft a QB. But, that has got to be the thought process, otherwise why replace a respected coach?

Can a new coach.. coming in.. evaluate a QB whom he has never worked with.. to the extent that he would spend the top pick of the draft? For YEARS.. I have listened to people on this board say.. NO.. you have to give at least 3 Years to evaluate ( insert name here ) [ Frye.. Anderson.. Quinn.. Wynn.. Couch.. Garcia..]

When you have a bad team.. You can not blame everything on the QB. The QB does not rush the passer.. the QB does not block for the running backs.. the QB does not defend the other teams receivers. Sometimes, a team is just so bad that not even Joe Montana can save them...

Granted.. I have heard that Clausen is a problem to work with.. that he has off the field issues.. and is a problem in the locker room. I ask.. shouldn't a new coach see if he can work with a player before he throws out two back to back high draft picks ( the # 2 spent on Claussen last year and this years # 1 overall ) to cover one position.

Picking high round QBs, year after year, as well as changing coaching staffs, is throwing good money after bad. Are the Carolina Panthers going to become this decade's 1990s Cincinnati Bengals ?

Carolina's GM Marty Hurney is the guy that drafted Clausen.

Oh, Rivera doesn't owe any player anything. I just think that you can't go spending a 2nd round pick on a QB and then abandon that selection to go out and select a QB with the first overall selection the very next year.

Hey, I guess if you want to do that or feel, like you said, that he doesn't fit the scheme that going to be used, then you might. I suspect that you'd probably draft one in the 4th round (or even later) to back up that 2nd round selection from the previous year.

Let's take for example a QB with these stats in the first couple years in the league.

Year 1: 52.9% comp, 9 TD, 18 INT in 11 games.
Year 2: 56.6% comp, 11 TD, 18 INT in 15 games.

That QB wouldn't make it passed the first year in the league in today's game. If he followed up his rookie season with a season like year two, he'd never see a field again. However, he went on to win 3 Super Bowls and has been inducted into the Football HOF.

Yeah, Troy Aikman wouldn't last in today's NFL.

Fair enough.

But also Carolina doesn't have a 2nd rounder. They need to draft well and while to you or I that might mean trading down a few spots to get more picks or taking the most impactful player in the draft ... they might see it as "who can we take that not only helps us win in 5 years or in 3 years... but this season too." If either QB could develop into a franchise QB and they like him over Clausen, then they take him.

Once again, I'm not arguing that they SHOULD or that they WILL ... I almost think it's between CAM and Dareus myself ... but the point is I could honestly see them going EITHER way.

Troy Aikman wouldn't have lasted in the 90's either if Minnesota didn't gift the Cowboys a team

(well, and Jerry let Jimmy make the picks sure helped out too)

You have a point... but I'm not sure that Jerry let Jimmy make the selections alone. I'll bet that they mutually agreed on the selections that were made. Jerry Jones doesn't let anyone take sole charge of anything.

I went RT and WR early for cleveland based on BPA and need. They can draft defense and sign some defensive guys in FA

ROUND 1

1. Carolina Panthers- Cam Newton, QB, Auburn
2. Denver Broncos- Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama
3. Buffalo Bills- Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M
4. Cincinnati Bengals- Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
5. Arizona Cardinals- Robert Quinn, DE/OLB, North Carolina
6. Cleveland Browns- AJ Green, WR, Georgia
7. San Francisco 49ers- Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
8. Tennessee Titans- Nick Fairly, DT, Auburn
9. Dallas Cowboys- Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska
10. Washington Redskins- Aldon Smith, DE/OLB, Missouri
11. Houston Texans- JJ Watt DE, Wisconsin
12. Minnesota Vikings- Ryan Mallet, QB, Arkansas
13. Detroit Lions- Da’Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson
14.St. Louis Rams- Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
15. Miami Dolphins- Mike Pouncey, OL, Florida
16. Jacksonville Jaguars- Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue
17. New England Patriots- Cameron Jordan, DE, California
18. San Diego Chargers- Tyron Smith, OT, USC
19. New York Giants- Anthony Castanzo, OT, Boston College
20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers- Justin Houston, DE/OLB, Georgia
21. Kansas City Chiefs- Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon
22. Indianapolis Colts- Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
23. Philadelphia Eagles- Muhammad Wilkerson DT, Temple
24. New Orleans Saints- Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa
25. Seattle Seahawks- Jake Locker, QB, Washington
26. Baltimore Ravens- Torrey Smith, WR, Maryland
27. Atlanta Falcons- Brooks Reed, DE/LB, Arizona
28. New England Patriots- Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
29. Chicago Bears- Corey Luiget, DT, Illinois
30. New York Jets- Phil Taylor, DT, Baylor
31. Pittsburgh Steelers- Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado
32. Green Bay Packers- Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State

ROUND 2

33. New England Patriots- Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama
34. Buffalo Bills- Christian Ponder, QB, Florida State
35. Cincinnati Bengals- Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
36. Denver Broncos- Brandon Harris, CB, Miami
37. Cleveland Browns- Derek Sherrod, OT, Mississippi State
38. Arizona Cardinals- Andy Dalton, QB, TCU
39. Tennessee Titans- Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada
40. Dallas Cowboys- Ben Ijalana, OT, Villanova
41. Washington Redskins- Randall Cobb, WR, Kentucky
42. Houston Texans- Kyle Rudolph, TE, Notre Dame
43. Minnesota Vikings- Stefen Wisniewski, C, Penn State
44. Detroit Lions- Aaron Williams, S/CB, Texas
45. San Francisco 49ers- Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina
46. Denver Broncos- Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA
47. St. Louis Rams- Danny Watkins, G, Baylor
48. Oakland Raiders- Ras-I Dowling, CB, Virginia
49. Jacksonville Jaguars- Jon Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh
50. San Diego Chargers- Allen Bailey, DE, Miami
51. Tampa Bay Buccaneers- Rahim Moore, S, UCLA
52. New York Giants- Bruce Carter, LB, North Carolina
53. Indianapolis Colts- Christian Ballard, DT, Iowa
54. Philadelphia Eagles- Martez Wilson, LB, Illinois
55. Kansas City Chiefs- Orlando Franklin, OL, Miami
56. New Orleans Saints- Mikel Leshoure, RB, Illinois
57. Seattle Seahawks- Clint Boling, OG, Georgia
58. Baltimore Ravens- Marcus Cannon, OL, TCU
59. Atlanta Falcons- Titus Young, WR, Boise State
60. New England Patriots- Rodney Hudson, OL, Florida State
61. San Diego Chargers- Jerrel Jernigan, WR, Troy
62. Chicago Bears- Mason Foster, OLB, Washington
63. Pittsburgh Steelers- James Carpenter, OL, Alabama
64. Green Bay Packers- Ryan Williams, RB, Virginia Tech

No offense, but if we pass on the plus, plus talent on the DL in this draft, Heckert should be fired.

I would bet money that we do not go WR or OT in the 1st 2 rounds. We already have 2 1st rounders invested in the OL, along with a 3rd last year. We also have a very expensive (and capable) LG in Steinbach. I can see us going OL in the 4th or later ..... but not before. Especially not when the DL needs rebuilt ... and with the DL being the most important unit on a 4-3 defense.

I honestly think that the braintrust thinks that some of the guys we currently have at WR will blossom in the WCO. I would be stunned to see a WR taken before the 4th ... if at all.

Fired?

It all depends on the grades Heckert and his staff have on these guys. If the draft were to play out this way (which I doubt it will, but you never know) with Peterson AND Green available at 6, I would not be surprised at all if one of them became a Brown. Both could be considered BPA at that point and both would upgrade their respective positions on our roster.

UNLESS... we get an offer we can't refuse to move down a few slots where a guy like Jordan is a better value than he would be at 6. With Peterson AND Green available at 6, I would imagine our phones would be ringing, but the offer would have to be REALLY good to move, IMO.

Candyman, I'd take Marvin Austin DT who is still on your board in Rd 2 over Sherrod OT.

Green WR
Austin DT

would be a bad 1,2..... load up round three and lets take a look.

I'm not trying to be an ass here .... but this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to set up our new 4-3 defense in a single draft.

The core of the 4-3 is a ferocious DL. Right now we have, really, 1 DL who we know will play and play well. If we don't find 3 more plus to excellent ..... not just good, but plus to excellent DL, then we don't play defense this year. This is a draft deep in DL .... with a lot of high quality DL who will be available throughout the top 3 rounds. This draft could set the defensive tone for our team for years to come.

There's a lot of talk about Peterson .... and I wouldn't complain much if he was the pick .... but only if we then go DL in the next 3 rounds. I'm really not kidding here. We have 3 of our 4 OL spots set, and I know that the powers that be expect Lauvoa to take the 4th spot. If he is a plus player, then that allows us to have Womack and Pashos handle the RT spot. I have read some stuff indicating that Holmgren likes Vallos as well. He might fit as a WCO RT. I would be stunned to see the Browns go OL early in this draft with gaping holes in other parts of the roster, and better talent available at deeper positions.

I do not see them going WR early. I have read srticles indicating that the braintrust thinks that we have a couple of WR who will excel in the WCO ...... and they are also high on Carlton Mitchell. I am also curious to see if a quick little guy like Norwood might be able to make an impact in the WCO. He ran great routes and had great hands in college. Those are premium qualities for a WCO WR.

I can see us addressing a 3rd down type speedy RB later in the draft. I can see us taking a developmental QB middle to late in the draft. Honestly, the rest I see spent on defense. We need DL desperately, and LB isn't far behind. If Elam leaves, then we need a FS as well. We need a lot of help on defense to make the change from 3-4 to 4-3. I do not see us making that change ..... hiring a guy like Dick Jauron, and leaving him with nothing to work with.

The offense has tons to work with. We have a QB, 2 RB, 2 TE, and solid OL, and potential at WR. (at least that's what the brain trust has said) On defense we have 1 DT, a pair of LB, a S and a lockdown caliber CB. (and some decent CBs) We need a TON of help on defense .... and luckily this draft is deep, deep, deep at the position we need most. I do like the idea of pairing Peterson with Haden ... and that might be an option ..... but I see us taking no less than 3 DL in this draft .... and higher rather than lower.

JMHO.

I don't disagree with you entirely. I'm just sayin' if we end up with either Peterson or Green in the first, I doubt Heckert's job will be in jeopardy.

The bottom line for me is that there are very few positions on this team that couldn't use an upgrade. Again, IF the draft plays out like this (and that is a BIG "IF"), I don't think we can go wrong picking Peterson and I wouldn't be too upset if Green ended up being our choice. Our wideouts are what they are: 2nd tier guys who need a real threat opposite them to open things up a bit. Holmgren said that he's looking for a home run threat (which implies that we don't have one currently -- an obvious fact if you've watched the Browns offense at all). Green would certainly fit that bill.

That said, I will be a bit surprised if either of these guys is available at 6 (Peterson moreso than Green). I still think we'll end up going DL at this pick as a result. I would be good with that as well.

You have Patrick Peterson on the board and you take AJ Green?

I repeat ... I would be stunned to see a WR taken before the 4th .. if at all.

We'll see what happens ..... but yeah ... if we go WR/OL with our 1st 2 picks with the quality of talent at DL in this draft, combined with a desperate need at DL .. then yes, I would really, really question Heckert's ability to do this job.

Heckert's job, at this point, is to collect talent. We obviously don't need a left tackle. And from everything the front office has said, we don't need a quarterback.

We have below average talent or players that don't fit our system at right tackle, wide receiver, linebacker, defensive tackle, and defensive end. And maybe right guard, safety, and cornerback.

Whatever player our front office determines to be the most talented player available when we draft is who we should take. This team is no place to take a player just because there is a need at that position. We need skilled players at many positions that can contribute both right away and many years in the future.

Actually, if you go by what the FO has said, we might not need a WR. Either that or we might want a veteran WR.

I believe Holmgren also said , "I'm also looking for a home-run hitter."

That could mean anything from defensive end to a kick returner. I took it to mean a receiver.

We'll see what happens.

I have read that the brain trust likes Robiske and Mitchell. I have also read some good stuff about Norwood as far as short space quickness, hands, and routes.

must've been a carolina thing? lol..

Was thinking about who are the likely options for us in these first three rounds that fit.

1st

Peterson gives you the Peterson/Hayden combo of great press corners that are tackling machines.

Green gives you the playmaker, homerun hitter receiver and gives your young QB a go to player.

Quinn isn't talked about as much but he may be everything Heckert is looking for in a DE as well as a first round pick. speed, explosion and he has that home run factor and he is a Dick Jauron ideal DE.

2nd round

Jabaal Sheard DE Pitt Strong side de with good power and deceptive speed. Raw potential but Raw is the key word.

Jimmy Smith CB Colorado probably the 2nd best corner but major major off the field risk talent alone will get him a look

Muhammad Wilkerson DT Temple 4 down player. The biggest secret in this years draft. Every bit as talented as Dareus and Fairley. I think he slides as teams attack DE, QB and OT needs.

Leonard Hankerson WR Miami Struggled early in his career in all aspects of the game but improved every year and continues to improve. May have the highest ceiling of any of the receiver prospects.


3rd.

Marcus Cannon OG/OT TCU 6-5 and 360 lbs a tom heckert/ andy reid bubble butt offensive lineman. Best run blocker in this draft and more than adequate in pass protection.

Bruce Carter LB North Carolina probably wont play this year due to a knee injury but he was a top 15 projection before the injury

Dontay Moch LB Nevada (likely gone to the raiders in the 2nd but he could slide and if he does, Jauron will be pleading for his services.

Marcus Gilber OT Florida big mean nasty tackle another that fits Heckert

Greg Romeus DE Pitt Tons of talent but injuries have pushed him down the boards.

1st round I would go wth Peterson or Jordan ...... depending on which one is there. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

2nd round I would take the highest rated DE/DT left on board. We must get the DL rebuilt. With a 4-3 we have to have a dominating DL or else we don't have a defense.

3rd round would be my highest rated WR, DL, OL, LB, CB or S. Whatever player I have at those positions is my pick.

4th and beyond I go strictly off of what player is the highest rated left on board. We could really use quality players at any position.