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j/c
We have the money to spend, and if we need to use a big chunk of it to sign a guy like Clements who will really solidify our DBs for a long time (along with Bodden), I say do it. Now, I'm not saying break the bank, but you gotta spend money in this league to get quality guys.
Also, bringing in a guy like that, and having brought in a guy like Bentley last year, may help show other FAs that Cleveland isn't such a horrible place to play.
But, that all being said, if we could get Dielman and Steinbach for the same amount of $$$ that we would spend on Clements, I'd be more prone to get the OL than the DB, but that's JMHO.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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j/c...
I kind of picked up from the two articles in the thread that there was a chance we may not land Steinbach or Dielman.
The comment regarding Steinbach seeking tackle money and the Browns wanting to pay guard money...then the comment about Dielman wanting to resign with the Chargers or go to a contender...I'm wondering now if we get either one.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
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I think the author is right on, when he says that Clements will make Bodden that much better... With Bodden, Clements, Jones, and Pool, Cleveland could have a VERY good secondary... Then with the linebackers basically set, all we need is a valuable DE and a future NT and then be on the way to having a dominate defense.
Though I agree that Clements would make Bodden even better and greatly improve the secondary, I disagree that we are "set" at the LB position. We have a couple of starters and the rest are fill-ins. When a team runs the 3-4, they have to ALWAYS be on the lookout for more LBers.
Yeah you're right about not being "set" at linebacker; although, I do think that the LBer positions are "more set" than any other defensive position...
I think Cleveland could really use another OLB opposite Wimbley and let Leon stay in the middle, where I think he will be most productive...
Just like everyone else though, the DLine situation is very scary.
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Legend
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
Here’s what one AFC West scout had to say about the possibility of the Browns signing Clements and what affect it would have on their defense:
“Is he gonna rush the quarterback AND stop the line from getting gouged up the middle in the run game AND cover the #1’s? He’d better for the kind of money he’s gonna get and what (the Browns’) needs are on that side of the ball.â€
I wonder if Ty law (Chiefs) Champ Bailey (Broncos) and the Raiders two corners (who are 1st round picks) can stop the run and rush the passer?
No?
Then STFU 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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hehe.... how much man-to-man could we play with this dude and bodden? i'm thinking alot.... we could keep one safety back (pool) and send jones to put some hurt on people..... man i miss dixon and minniefield....those were the days 
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Let me quote the original article before I get to a comment you made: Quote:
Here’s what one AFC West scout had to say about the possibility of the Browns signing Clements and what affect it would have on their defense:
“Is he gonna rush the quarterback AND stop the line from getting gouged up the middle in the run game AND cover the #1’s? He’d better for the kind of money he’s gonna get and what (the Browns’) needs are on that side of the ball.â€
Not much feedback on this statement, but it's something to be concerned about. I think it is foolish to throw all that money at a cb before you address the top two priorities..........Stopping the run and applying pressure on the QB.
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likewise, bringing in Clements, there is some reciprocal help there...having two very good corners can allow for more varied bltiz packages, which can help out a below avg DL...not nearly as much as the other way around IMO, but to some degree...
Building a team from the outside-in has plagued this franchise in the past. I would hope the Browns would have learned their lesson by now, but I don't have a good feeling that they have. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
Not much feedback on this statement, but it's something to be concerned about. I think it is foolish to throw all that money at a cb before you address the top two priorities..........Stopping the run and applying pressure on the QB.
The only problem is that you can't show me a pass rusher for the 3-4 or a run stopper for the 3-4 that's going to make a difference in free agency.
So if we have a legit need at corner and can get AND AFFORD the best one on the market, it's foolish NOT to spend the money.
Oh yeah, he probably solves our punt return problem as well, making his money that much more palatable.
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Building a team from the outside-in has plagued this franchise in the past. I would hope the Browns would have learned their lesson by now, but I don't have a good feeling that they have.
If we sign either of the two big name guards you'll have your answer.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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For some reason I feel like Clements is just going to be another Gary Baxter. He'll head to Ctown and go straight to the IR.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
The only problem is that you can't show me a pass rusher for the 3-4 or a run stopper for the 3-4 that's going to make a difference in free agency.
I agree with the run plugger...but what is Adalius Thomas in your book? He´s a perfect 3-4 pass rushing OLB....
However, I dont know if I´d be happy with signing Clements...a friend of mine is a BIlls fan and while he says that Clements is a good CB, he also says that his inconsistent stretches make him just that..."good" not great...but we have to pay
"great", maybe even "elite" money
oh, and since nobody seems to read my posts I´ll try it again: I´d like to know how many years Holly has a contract with the Browns because I thought he only signed a 1 year deal last season...anybody? Has he re-signed? Maybe I missed it
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Quote:
I think it is foolish to throw all that money at a cb before you address the top two priorities..........Stopping the run and applying pressure on the QB.
This bugs me...Just like don't take Manning cause we NEED OL help...
Other areas of a team can be addressed AT THE SAME TIME...
You're looking at 4-6 FA players AND 7 picks...3 1st dayers...I see no problem signing a Top Notch Corner...
Go Browns!!!
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He's signed thru 2007 @ 435K...
Go Browns!!!
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I read your post. I simply didn't know the answer to the Holly question. I'd rather pay A. Thomas the big money than Clemments. But, that is just me. I believe in building a team from the inside-out. I just hate tying up more money on a perimeter player when we are so incredibly weak in the trenches. What really concerns me is that Clemments has already stated that he wants to be the top-paid CB in the NFL. Yes, even higher than Bailey.  DnD: The Manning comparison is unfair. I've ALWAYS said that you take a franchise QB if one is available and you don't have one. Dawg, it just seems to me that this franchise has invested heavily on receivers and secondary guys, yet we continue to lose. I will say that Toad made a good point that there aren't a lot of good FA front seven guys available.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
I will say that Toad made a good point that there aren't a lot of good FA front seven guys available.
Great. Ruin the fun 
Thomas is the one guy that would do wonders for the BIGGER need, which is pass rush at the OLB position, as Django said. One issue is that Thomas will be 30 this season, while Clements turns 28 in december. He's about 2 and a half years younger than Thomas.
I don't like throwing money at a cornerback IF it means we can't address pass rush or run stuffer. If we can do both, I'm all for spending up to the cap at this point (how desperate am I? *L*), but again, just as long as it doesn't preclude us from signing a greater need.
As noted, damned if I can find a run-stuffing DE or a pass-rush OLB that's worth the money  If that's truly the case, hoarding $20 million in cap space can't produce a win on the field if we don't spend it.
Lastly, I wouldn't worry too much about Clements talking as though he wants to be THE highest paid CB in the league. I'd probably say the same thing, hehe. That would keep the low-ballers from wasting my time *L*
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Corner has always been a find....teams go years trying to get one and there are years that go buy that good ones come out in FA. And when they have if at all since 99 they are usually looking to hook up with a SB run.
Here is a stud Corner...yes it will cost money...but got news to Vers and some others about FA for about 2 years.
The New CBA has created a winfall of Cap room...sure once it is saturated its back to same old same old...be very frugal in FA.
This new CBA agreement comes at a very opportunistic time for us.
1. The new regime got rid of the deadwood creating a winfall.
2. Because these players were Deadwood we had a large Void.
3. An era of HS -->College --> NFL --> 2nd Contract studs from Ohio have started to arrive from the re-birth of the Browns in 99!
4. 06 was Bentley 07 now will be Clements.
CBs are tough to acquire...they are tough to develope from the draft.
We have a Window of opportunity to take advantage of the CBA "Catch up".
06, 07 and possibly 08 will be a window to take advantage of the FA market. Then it will close as fast as it opened.
FA is never a good way to build and its normally suicidal and only condusive to a one year run. But just like the fall the of the USFL and we were able to get Minnifield, Mack and some other key players in that windfall...we possibly have a similar windfall in this new CBA with a generation of FA starting to appear available to come back to the Browns as Locals.
Bentley and Clements are our Minnifield and Mack
This is not a normal enviroment to be overly cautious of FA.
Thanks to Clark and Butch we unfortunately need to look to FA.
Clements, Bentley, Shaffer and whoever we add to our fold of young and possible quality starts is us taking advantage of this new CBA and the Window to beef up.
JMHO - this is good...we will have to trim down as our Cap gets sated...but the big contracts will have enough years into them that any fat we have to trim (thems not pulling their weight) we can afford the hits into the SigningB. The timing is good.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I'm staying up late to see if he signs... I hope he does!!!!
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Quote:
I'm staying up late to see if he signs... I hope he does!!!!
If you stay up tonight, you might need a lot of caffeine...The FA period doesn't begin till tomorrow night, or 12:01 Friday morning
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Quote:
He's signed thru 2007 @ 435K...
Thank you DinD....that´s great and if we have some cap after we are done with FA I´d think re-signing him with some front load money should be something to think about.....but he´s young maybe 1st wait how he does mid season?...but then again it could be too late then who knows?
I think it would be wise to re-structure Holly´s contract if cap room is left; give him more money 2007 and sign him for 2 more years through 2009, it´s a win-win...he´s a good young Nickel, who could develop into a #2 CB and already play there if needed.....u can never have enough good CBs
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm staying up late to see if he signs... I hope he does!!!!
If you stay up tonight, you might need a lot of caffeine...The FA period doesn't begin till tomorrow night, or 12:01 Friday morning
thursday silly
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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I just hate tying up more money on a perimeter player when we are so incredibly weak in the trenches.
Amen.
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And WHO would we spend that $ on in the Trenches??? You're already gonna see an OL in prolly Dielman... Don't say sign Davis or Steinbach ALSO...U guys bitch about to much FA bucks on one unit...Then we try to spread it around and U STILL BITCH...[shakes head]  There IS NO Top Defensive Line talent available...The BEST is Robaire Smith and I bet he comes here too...
Go Browns!!!
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Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Hehehe........I just bought a Rock Star with the intent on drinking it at 11pm tonight
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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My aunt who goes to the same church w/the Clements family, said its 90% a done deal regarding him coming home to play w/the Browns......
![[Linked Image from i73.photobucket.com]](http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i209/JC21721/sig_40.jpg) "What's up? All you Haters!"
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My aunt who goes to the same church w/the Clements family, said its 90% a done deal regarding him coming home to play w/the Browns......
I hope you're right.
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In other cornerback news, the Vikings cut Fred Smoot.
Not saying he suddenly takes Clements' place (has character issues and isn't on the same level), but it's plan B to me.
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If we pick up Clements, will we be dropping Daylon McCutcheon? We have some money tied up in him don't we? And if we dropped him would that save us some cap space?
Just a question.
HAVE FAITH IN YOUR TEAM! GO BROWNS!!
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Cutch is like Baxter: Part of our history.
He was a slow corner by NFL standards in his prime, and his prime ended a couple of years ago. He's since acquired a bad knee, and couldn't afford to lose a step.
Right now, Cutch isn't any better than the doods we marched out there last year. There's no real reason to keep him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I have to disagree with you Toad. IF he is healthy he would make a great number 4 or 5 CB this year. He could still get the job done, and would be a great influence on the young guys.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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That's the problem though, his heath.
It's hard........very hard..........for me to assume that having missed all of last season and at least a chunk of this one that he can come back and be as fast as he was before. When one considers his salary, age, as well as the players that came along last year and actually played decently.......I dunno GM, I just don't see it man.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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We will find out down the road 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Hehehe........I just bought a Rock Star with the intent on drinking it at 11pm tonight
I just bought a couple 6 packs....I will be here with my semi-drunk commentary..
I want:
1) Clements
2) Dielman
3) Fraley
in that order
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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I'm thinking of ordering a pizza for the occasion.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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My list for the shortly after midnite timeframe is very much like yours, but I'll be toasting with a glass of water (no, not Brita Filtered water for those wondering  ).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Exciting times for us Browns fans! I want Clements, Deilman, and Steinbach! I also want us to sign Fraley to a contract! Then we go in the draft and get Thomas, a DL, a OL, a RB, and a LB and whatever else Phil sees to make us better!  We will then have a pretty damn good OL for a few years and it will make everybody on the team just a little better! We do need help on the DL...........hopefully Phil has something in mind........I have a feeling he does! Can anybody say........hell yes to a winning season and maybe the playoffs! Well.............we can only hope!
![[Linked Image from i96.photobucket.com]](http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l197/thazen/brownsflag2.jpg) GO BROWNS!
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A little bird says we already got Fraley.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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well take one off the board you got Fraley right
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My aunt who goes to the same church w/the Clements family
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My aunt who goes to the same church w/the Clements family
What's funny pocketknife?....i mean Wesley Snipes?
"What's up? All you Haters!"
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Quote:
Quote:
Hehehe........I just bought a Rock Star with the intent on drinking it at 11pm tonight
I just bought a couple 6 packs....I will be here with my semi-drunk commentary..
I want:
1) Clements
2) Dielman
3) Fraley
in that order
You'll be half-naked and half-drunk at the computer slurrring your words, while I'll be fully clothed but suffering from tremors, yammering, and the nervous twitches, finally finishing off my morning by slamming Tylenol PM's like they were Pez.......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Clements browns #1 target...
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