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Not a fan of SB5. It seems like one of those "let's get a message out" bills but without any substance. It tries to "fix" problems by not giving any solutions.
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How do you remove two senators right before a vote is taken because they knew how they were voting for two that you know would vote for you??????????????????????? Ohio GOP Advances Anti-Union Bill After Last Minute Committee Shuffle Evan McMorris-Santoro | March 2, 2011, 4:19PM State Sen. Bill Seitz (R-OH) and Sen. Scott Oelslager (R-OH) It took the removal of two -- count 'em -- union-sympathetic Republicans from Ohio state Senate committees, but supporters of Gov. John Kasich's (R) plan to limit collective bargaining rights for state workers were able to move their plan one step closer to Kasich's desk today. By a vote of 7-5, a State Senate Committee charged with reviewing the collective bargaining proposal -- known as Senate Bill 5 -- moved the bill toward a floor reading and its expected passage. Shortly after that, a similarly close vote moved the bill out of the Senate Rules Committee. The bill is now on the Senate floor and passage is expected imminently. But opponents of the law say the pathway to today's vote shows how hard a sell Kasich's plan is to the broad swath of voters in the Buckeye state. Indeed, the narrow committee victories for supporters of the plan came with some awfully bad optics. In order to ensure a vote that would go Kasich's way, the leader of the GOP-controlled state Senate removed Sen. Bill Seitz (R) from the Insurance and Labor Committee and Sen. Scott Oelslager (R) from the Rules Committee. Both Republicans are opposed to Kasich's collective bargaining plan, and their votes against it would have deadlocked their respective committees, thus keeping the bill from moving ahead. More on the committee removals from the Cincinnati Enquirer here. Now, as debate rages over the bill on the state Senate floor at this very moment, Seitz and Oelslager are among four Republicans who say they'll vote against Kasich's measure barring all unionized state employees from bargaining for benefits or going on strike. The Democratic minority, which is unified against the proposal, needs three more Republicans to come their way to defeat the law. That seems unlikely to happen, but the committee removals earlier today have given union supporters in Ohio a new line of attack: Kasich's bill is too conservative for even the members of his own party. As an SEIU spokesperson told TPM, the booting of Oelslager and Seitz suggests the plan is "an extreme partisan attack" that will alienate Ohio's electorate. Kasich and his allies have said the changes to collective bargaining are needed to keep the state out of a fiscal hole and say the law is not about union-busting as critics have alleged. Late Update: The Ohio State Senate has passed the measure by a vote of 17-16 http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/by-hook-and-crook-ohio-gop-advances-anti-union-bill.php
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That's just rotten.  Oelslager is a good man and very well respected. He's moderate and for him to get sideswept like that is just downright rotten.
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Part of this bill is the removal of senority as the main deciding factor in layoffs.
I have no problem with this.
As an example, I have a relative who was recently promoted at his job. If there are layoffs, he will have the choice of going back down in rank, or being laid off, despite the fact that he has already passed the test to move up to the lext level, because he has the least senority at his current level.
I believe that he is the only person at his current level who has passed the test to be promoted, yet he would be the person who would either be demoted, or laid off.
That's ridiculous.
If this law passes, he might actually be able to keep his job by virtue of being committed, by virtue of doing his job at an excellent level of performance, and would not lose his job just because he was the last one promoted to his current level. (and he is already in line to be promoted again)
Let performance decide layoffs. That's the way it works in the non union world, and it's the way it should work when the taxpayers are paying the bills.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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As I have posted before I am a correction officer for the state of ohio, I have 16 years in, in july. so with this bill and seniority thrown out the window, all this does is let management lop off the top, to save money. Regardless if the top does their jobs, that is just BS.
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As I have posted before I am a correction officer for the state of ohio, I have 16 years in, in july. so with this bill and seniority thrown out the window, all this does is let management lop off the top, to save money. Regardless if the top does their jobs, that is just BS.
Or it allows them to get rid of the old bastards who cannot do their job anymore.
The only people who should be worried are the lazy bums who are a part of the unions who got by because their union protected them with seniority.
you had a good run Hank.
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As I have posted before I am a correction officer for the state of ohio, I have 16 years in, in july. so with this bill and seniority thrown out the window, all this does is let management lop off the top, to save money. Regardless if the top does their jobs, that is just BS.
Or it allows them to get rid of the old bastards who cannot do their job anymore.
The only people who should be worried are the lazy bums who are a part of the unions who got by because their union protected them with seniority.
They are the only ones who should worry, yet others are forced to. You would think that any employer would do what is best for their company overall, not just what will save them the most money in the short term.
I have worked in non union shops where there were layoffs. Last man in were the first out. Did they have to? No.
#gmstrong
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Well, you had just about everything there - Bush, FOX lies, middle class America fights for survival, Canada won't allow lying....
But you forgot the link. I'd like to see the link. Care to share it?
Also, as far as lies, is ABC still allowed to broadcast in Canada? (I think it was ABC - ya know, with the lies about Bush...........whatever station it was - are they still allowed to broadcast their lies there?)
Link please. You chastise people for their links to things you can't grasp - where'd you get this gem?
archie...
Fox News' Lies Keep Them Out of Canada
By Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Reader Supported News
01 March 11
s America's middle class battles for its survival on the Wisconsin barricades - against various Koch Oil surrogates and the corporate toadies at Fox News - fans of enlightenment, democracy and justice can take comfort from a significant victory north of the Wisconsin border. Fox News will not be moving into Canada after all! The reason: Canadian regulators announced last week they would reject efforts by Canada's right-wing Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, to repeal a law that forbids lying on broadcast news.
Canada's Radio Act requires that "a licenser may not broadcast ... any false or misleading news." The provision has kept Fox News and right-wing talk radio out of Canada and helped make Canada a model for liberal democracy and freedom. As a result of that law, Canadians enjoy high quality news coverage, including the kind of foreign affairs and investigative journalism that flourished in this country before Ronald Reagan abolished the "Fairness Doctrine" in 1987. Political dialogue in Canada is marked by civility, modesty, honesty, collegiality, and idealism that have pretty much disappeared on the US airwaves. When Stephen Harper moved to abolish the anti-lying provision of the Radio Act, Canadians rose up to oppose him fearing that their tradition of honest non-partisan news would be replaced by the toxic, overtly partisan, biased and dishonest news coverage familiar to American citizens who listen to Fox News and talk radio. Harper's proposal was timed to facilitate the launch of a new right-wing network, "Sun TV News" which Canadians call "Fox News North."
Harper, often referred to as "George W. Bush's Mini Me," is known for having mounted a Bush-like war on government scientists, data collectors, transparency, and enlightenment in general. He is a wizard of all the familiar tools of demagoguery; false patriotism, bigotry, fear, selfishness and belligerent religiosity.
Harper's attempts to make lying legal on Canadian television are a stark admission that right-wing political ideology can only dominate national debate through dishonest propaganda. Since corporate profit-taking is not an attractive vessel for populism, a political party or broadcast network that makes itself the tool of corporate and financial elites must lie to make its agenda popular with the public. In the Unites States, Fox News and talk radio, the sock puppets of billionaires and corporate robber barons, have become the masters of propaganda and distortion on the public airwaves. Fox News' notoriously biased and dishonest coverage of the Wisconsin's protests is a prime example of the brand of news coverage Canada has smartly avoided.
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archie...FOX NEWS LIES...they are not allowed to broadcast in Canada because FOX NEWS LIES.
arch...don't you agree that the USA should have the same standard as Canada when it comes to broadcast journalism..."a licenser may not broadcast ... any false or misleading news."
If you are getting your news through Fox News...you are just a link..a tool to be used..to repeat and promote their lies.
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I would not expect you to understand the issue or even admit there is an issue.
Yeah mac, how could I possibly understand?? I mean c'mon, I'm currently employed by a county government and prior to that worked for the state of Ohio for 13+ years, and was a union steward for 2 separate unions during that time to include helping to negotiate a contract.........what the hell do I know??????????
shep...why would someone with such a rich history of union involvement stand silent on the issue of Scott Walker busting Wisconsin unions..trying to forcing union workers to give up bargaining rights?
Sitting on the fence? Got your finger in the wind?
Do you support the Ohio union workers and their fight against Koch Tea Party that has control of Republican Governors in Ohio and Wisconsin?
Oh wait...you used past tense...you were once a union steward...let me guess, you voted with the Koch Tea Party and have now swapped sides from a union member to a TPer...no longer supporting union workers..now supporting Tea Party union busting Republicans.
 You have him pegged.. 
Yeah, mac has me pegged.
Just when you think Mac can't possibly say anything dumber or more troll-like than he already has, he comes off with another one.
But I will (unlike he himself) answer questions.....in a condensed fashion because I could type for hours on it but it JUST WOULDN'T MATTER.
Why have I been silent on this topic?? Because I know more than he does on the topic and I learned a long time ago (but forget sometimes) that it is easier to bang my head against the wall than to reply to a post from Mac the Troll. I have HUNDREDS of friends involved deeply and directly in this struggle. It's near and dear to my heart...so instead of posting on a message board where it is meaningless to do so I sit silent and cringe at remarks that people make who are clueless.
Am I sitting on the fence??? In some ways, yes. Unions were created many moons ago to address poor working conditions and wages. Now they are powerful lobbying tools that influence elections and ultimately the direction (up or down) of fiscal (ir)responsibility. Unions are still necessary, however the rate of pay in many cases is ridiculous and in no way can a state survive under the conditions that arose.
Have I switched sides??? Yep....but not in the way Mac infers. I was union for many years, and now I am on the management side. When I was on the union side, many management people came to me because they knew that I would look at an issue fairly, and not just from a fighting stance. In dealing with situations it has to be equitable and FAIR to both sides. Now that I am on the management side of the table, I have union folks that seek me out to discuss things. They know I will give them a real answer as to what can and can't be done and why I think it should or shouldn't. On both sides, I worked out issues and prevented grievances before they became grievances.
It's all about having an open mind and being willing to talk things out in a sensible manner.
We don't have that any more. On either side.
I will tell you right here and now Mac, I am not speaking any further on here about this topic. (and you shouldn't either as long as you are ducking and dodging questions) Quit being a troll, your conversation is not productive whatsoever.
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As I have posted before I am a correction officer for the state of ohio, I have 16 years in, in july. so with this bill and seniority thrown out the window, all this does is let management lop off the top, to save money. Regardless if the top does their jobs, that is just BS.
Frency...I agree...PURE RW BS...limiting seniority rights.
Something else that really smells is the way Kasich and his TeaBag Republicans got the bill passed...
You won’t believe how they reportedly got Senator Gilmor to flip on SB 5
March 2, 2011
We’ve received a number of tips from Senate insiders and direct Senate sources indicating how the Senate GOP leadership was able to flip Senator Karen Gilmor (R-Tiffin)from a possible “No” vote on SB 5 into a “Yes.”
Senator Gilmor has served in Senate the from 1993 until 1997 and then again since 2009. She is up for re-election next year. Despite her years of experience in the State Senate, Gilmor had the distinction of being the only member of the Senate Republican caucus who was neither a Chair or Vice-Chair of a Senate committee. She also served on the State Employee Relations Board (SERB) between her two Senate terms. That’s what makes her “Yes” vote all the more outrageous.
The rumor in the Statehouse is that the Republican Senate leadership got Gilmor’s vote after committing to make her a chair of a legislative committee, perhaps even the very committee hearing SB 5 today—the Senate Insurance, Labor & Commerce Committee. I will say that I’m skeptical that the GOP leadership will remove the gavel from Chairman Bacon’s hand after he carried their water on SB 5 and got the bill on a path towards passage again. However, the Vice-Chair of the committee is Senate President Pro Tempore Keith Faber (R-Celina). He is also the Vice-Chair of the Senate Rules Committee.
So, I would think it would actually be pretty painless for Faber to give up his Vice-Chairman spot on the Insurance Committee and give it to Gilmor rather than strip Bacon of his gavel after he helped get SB 5 passed. That’s a lot easier than the game of musical chairs that would have to be placed in order to make sure Chairman Bacon doesn’t become the only member of GOP caucus to have a share of a committee gavel.
I know that the Chairs of the legislative committees get additional pay over the rest of their legislative colleagues. We’re still looking into whether Vice-Chairs get any financial bump as well.
Regardless, if these rumors are true, it looks like Gilmor’s conversion on SB 5 have nothing to do with merits but her only pride and maybe her pocketbook.
First, we see indications that the Republicans are considering, and may have to, actual change the membership of the Senate ILC Committee at the last possible minute to ensure SB 5 passes. Now, we see horse trading within the GOP to sell out the middle class of Ohio. Welcome to the Republican controlled Ohio Senate!
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As predicted, Senate GOP games the SB 5 committee vote by changing the committee’s makeup
March 2, 2011
Multiple media outlets reporting that SB 5 opponent Senator Bill Seitz (R-Cincinnati) was taking off the Senate Insurance, Labor & Commerce Committee and replaced with Senator Cliff Hite (R-Findlay), who is expected to vote for SB 5… obviously.
Senate Rule 19 suggest the President of the Senate can change the makeup of a Committee, at will, but only by first issuing a Message (parliamentary term of art) that changes the membership. Yesterday, Niehaus issued no such message. He may issue one during the floor session, but that’s after the fact. There’s probably a parliamentary scramble to figure out if Niehaus’ replacement of Seitz for Hite complies with the Rules of the Senate.
This gives the committee a 7-5 vote to approve the bill out of committee and avoid defeat by a tie vote.
We’ve already received clarification from our post this morning about Senator Karen Gilmor. The Republicans won’t make the committee changes immediately so that it’s not as apparent, but they’ll likely move Bacon down to Vice-Chair (reportedly he never wanted to Chair the committee in the first place) and place Gilmor as Chair. Even if she were moved into a Vice-Chair in that or some other committee, we’ve confirmed that she would gain financially from this arrangement.
[UPDATE:] Seitz had to be removed because like Hughes, he also planned on opposing the Omnibus amendment the GOP concocted to get the votes necessary to pass the bill on the floor, too. So Hite was added to make sure the amendment passed, too, because for some odd reason it’s made changes to the bill to get the necessary GOP support. How the Omnibus amendment makes this bill more political palpable to support is beyond my comprehension.
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After reading this, you have to laugh at John Kasich when he says he is not a UNION BUSTER...
But what should expect from someone like Kasich who last worked for FOX NEWS, best known for their LIES.
Kasich is no different than the low life in Wisconsin, trying to balance the Ohio budget on the backs of Ohio's hard working middle class union workers.
Notice, NO SHARED SACRIFICE FROM KASICH...the state workers who make the most in pay and benefits will pay nothing toward balancing Ohio's budget under Kasich's proposal...
Kasich and his Tea Party Republicans target ONLY MIDDLE CLASS UNION WORKERS, to pay for their mess.
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Yeah, mac has me pegged.
shep...call me whatever name you choose...I DID HAVE YOU PEGGED...
Finger in the wind...union for years...but now your on the side of rich republicans willing to sacrifice your soul for the good of your TEABAG PARTY.
Shep, what do you think of my idea of SHARED SACRIFICE...
...everyone working for the state has their pay and benefits reduced by a percentage necessary to balance Ohio's budget...
...from John Kasich who is one of the highest paid Governors in the USA down to the lowest paid worker...everyone contributes the same percentage to balance Ohio's budget.
GREAT IDEA, don't you think?
Last edited by mac; 03/03/11 08:36 AM.
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Again, answer my damn question. While you are at it show me where this bill exempts the Ohio governor of any benefit and pension changes.
#gmstrong
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Mac does act like a troll. I just love how he tries and put you in a box. I do know what you think because we are friends on Facebook. I respect your opinion no matter what it is. I also do not blame you (or the hundreds of other Dawgtalkers) if you chose not to rant and rave on here. 
#gmstrong
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" Kasich and his TeaBag Republicans"
Again, 2 more pokes at the keyboard (tea PARTY), and your posts would be taken with much more respect. Names and labels make you sound like a 3rd grader.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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" Kasich and his TeaBag Republicans"
Again, 2 more pokes at the keyboard (tea PARTY), and your posts would be taken with much more respect. Names and labels make you sound like a 3rd grader.
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Questions?
If one is mentally instable, does that mean that individual is to be excused for their actions?
If one is mentally instable, does that mean they can not be motivated by the words or actions of others?
Reading into the shooters background, it appears that politics and political beliefs have played a part in his life and thinking. The fact that he may be mentally instable does not mean the political discussion of the day may not have influenced the shooters thinking and possibly his actions.
Again, words have meaning, spoken or written...those who have a public platform from which they speak, have a responsibility to understand their words and actions have meaning.
Also, those who have a public platform..website, TV, radio, newspaper, etc...need to realize their words and actions are influencing many, from a few to millions...and that of those people who are influenced, there is no way to know if they are normal, insane, somewhere in between or teetering on the edge.
Trying to get some people to understand that there can be consequences to their words and actions, can be like hitting your head against a wall in today's environment. There have been warnings and until now, most of those warning have fallen on deaf ears.
The following video may not have anything to do with reason this shooter acted out and I'm not posting it to point fingers, either. I'm posting this as an example...showing that some have been concerned about the direction of political conversation in this country and the fact that could be consequences.
Within an hour of Giffords shooting, Palin's website of a map showing "crosshairs" on 20 democrats, was taken down. Maybe it takes something like this tragedy to make people understand that they do have a responsibility for what they say, what they write and for their actions.
We will find out much more about the shooter in future as the FBI talks to his friends, family and acquaintances about his beliefs and possibly his state of mind. But honestly, we may never know what caused this individual to act out.
Hopefully everyone will realize they can't pick "who" might be influenced by their words or actions...but that does not excuse us from "the responsibility" we have for the words we chose or the actions we take.
I have to give credit where credit is due. Mac managed to go the entire 6 page thread without using the politically toxic word "Teabaggers."
#gmstrong
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macie - how many times do I have to tell you I don't watch FOX news? Can you get that through your head? I don't watch ANY national news on t.v. - I watch the local news occasionally. rsn - that's one heck of a reputable site there - and you call me a tool??? Sorry ma, keep working.
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But I will (unlike he himself) answer questions.....in a condensed fashion because I could type for hours on it but it JUST WOULDN'T MATTER.
You may feel this way, but I don't. I for one would love to hear your take on the situation. I will freely admit that I am largely ignorant on the subject. I try my best to research and reason out what's going on, but there is nothing like a person who has first hand knowledge.
There is so much misinformation out there that I feel it makes opinions from people with first hand knowledge so much more important.
You're probably right that many won't change their positions, but at least you would give them something to think about.
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It's all about having an open mind and being willing to talk things out in a sensible manner.
To me, this should be the goal in virtually any situation. This is my big problem here. From what I can gather the governors of NJ and Maryland went to unions, said "here are the numbers; we have huge shortfalls. Everyone needs to give a little." The unions gave; and so did non-union public employees.
In Wisconsin and Ohio, there is no overt evidence to me that the state governments made any overtures of giving the unions a chance to compromise. Maybe they did, but I haven't been able to find anything that says this.
If the governors of these states had gone to unions and unions told them to shove it, then they would have had pretext for weakening collective bargaining. Public opinion would have been behind this more, and it wouldn't have been perceived as an "attack on the middle class." Now, unions' positions are hardened, and it makes the situation you are talking about worse (i.e. less cooperative atmosphere).
In Ohio, there already is a movement to have this put on the ballot in November. There is a good chance the voters will negate SB5, with national public opinion split something like 70% against weakening collective bargaining, and 30% for it. So the likely net effect of this bill is only one thing; a more combative climate. This helps nothing.
In many ways, these state governments have repeated many of the political mistakes the Obama administration made in passing health care reform.
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Again, answer my damn question. While you are at it show me where this bill exempts the Ohio governor of any benefit and pension changes.
Pd...Ohio's SB 5 applies to Ohio public employees who are members of Public Employee Unions.
Last time I checked, Kasich is not a union member.
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Again, answer my damn question. While you are at it show me where this bill exempts the Ohio governor of any benefit and pension changes.
Pd...Ohio's SB 5 applies to Ohio public employees who are members of Public Employee Unions.
Last time I checked, Kasich is not a union member.
So it doesn't apply to all state employees? I didn't know that. Thank you for your answer. Now, how about Wisconsin?
#gmstrong
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Pd... what do you think of my idea of SHARED SACRIFICE...
...everyone working for the state has their pay and benefits reduced by a percentage necessary to balance Ohio's budget...
...from John Kasich who is one of the highest paid Governors in the USA down to the lowest paid worker...everyone contributes the same percentage to balance Ohio's budget.
GREAT IDEA, don't you think?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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If the state is in such dire straits every part of the budget should be cut. That includes all state employees.
You threw that term around a lot when it came to Wisconsin. Do the benefit cuts there cover all state employees?
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Arch, don't worry about Fox or MSDNC or ABC or any of those other silly news agencies, soon we will have state run news... According to Hillary, we need a state run news media because we are losing the information battle because our private media can't keep up..... she claims that al jazeera is winning (which by the way is privately run).. So not to worry, we will all be watching the same news before too long.
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I suppose I'll "feed the troll" here.
I work for a union retailer. I think the seniority thing is a load of crap. If you are unwilling to do a job, it shouldn't be protected because you have X amount of years in. I see a great deal of old timers who are just plain unproductive because "what can they do to me, I have 25 years etc etc"
Lopping off the top simply to cut costs shouldn't be tolerated, but someone who isn't getting the job done shouldn't keep their position because they've been working there forever. Especially when someone with less time is more motivated to do the job.
To be perfectly honest, dealing directly with management in a logical, non-combative manner, has provided me with much greater results in my work-related issues than the times I tried to have the union help me.
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To be perfectly honest, dealing directly with management in a logical, non-combative manner, has provided me with much greater results in my work-related issues than the times I tried to have the union help me.
Imagine that!!!!!
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Again, answer my damn question. While you are at it show me where this bill exempts the Ohio governor of any benefit and pension changes.
Pd...Ohio's SB 5 applies to Ohio public employees who are members of Public Employee Unions.
Last time I checked, Kasich is not a union member.
So it doesn't apply to all state employees? I didn't know that. Thank you for your answer. Now, how about Wisconsin?
Pd...do you ever look anything up for yourself?
OR, DO EXPECT TO BE SPOON FED LIKE A NEWBORN?
BTW...SHARED SACRIFICE FOR ALL STATE WORKERS...union, non-union...highest paid down to lowest paid...IS THE ANSWER to fixing the Ohio State Budget crisis...
...every state worker, elected, appointed, least seniority to the highest seniority, union or non union...should take a reduction in pay and benefits the same percentage across the board...from Kasich's $144,269 and benefits down the lowest paid worker.
...whatever the percentage needed to erase the Ohio's debt.
A SHARED SACRIFICE approach would have overwhelming support from Ohio's public workers.
...jmho..
Last edited by mac; 03/03/11 02:41 PM.
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Quote:
from John Kasich who is one of the highest paid Governors in the USA
Since when does Kasich make $170k+ a year?
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Again, answer my damn question. While you are at it show me where this bill exempts the Ohio governor of any benefit and pension changes.
Pd...Ohio's SB 5 applies to Ohio public employees who are members of Public Employee Unions.
Last time I checked, Kasich is not a union member.
So it doesn't apply to all state employees? I didn't know that. Thank you for your answer. Now, how about Wisconsin?
Pd...do you ever look anything up for yourself?
OR, DO EXPECT TO BE SPOON FED LIKE A NEWBORN?
BTW...SHARED SACRIFICE FOR ALL STATE WORKERS...union, non-union...highest paid down to lowest paid...IS THE ANSWER to fixing the Ohio State Budget crisis...
...every state worker, elected, appointed, least seniority to the highest seniority, union or non union...should take a reduction in pay and benefits the same percentage across the board...from Kasich's $144,269 and benefits down the lowest paid worker.
...whatever the percentage needed to erase the Ohio's debt.
A SHARED SACRIFICE approach would have overwhelming support from Ohio's public workers.
...jmho..
I know the answer. I just got sick of you screaming about shared sacrifice in Wisconsin when that is exactly what their bill does. I asked about Ohio only to see if you would answer a question, which you did. At the same time you ignored the one where you are wrong. Same ole Mac.
#gmstrong
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Hey Mac, you are even wrong about Ohio... Quote:
SB 5 requires all public employees to pay at least 20 percent of their health care premiums. Right now, full-time state workers pay 15 percent of medical care plan premiums and nothing for dental and vision premiums. By asking employees to pay more, state and local governments stand to save money. Exact savings have not been reported.
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2011/feb/24/gop-says-committee-will-meet-tuesday-discuss-senat-ar-405633/
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Who spoonfed that to you? 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Hilarious! Senate GOP in Wisconsin Orders Police to Take AWOL Dems Into Custody
Republicans in the Wisconsin Senate passed a resolution Thursday calling for police to take 14 Democrats into custody for contempt after they fled to Illinois to avoid voting on a bill that would strip public-sector unions of nearly all their collective bargaining rights.
Republicans voted 19-0 to give Democrats until 4 p.m. Thursday to return to the chamber or be found "in contempt and disorderly behavior."
The vote comes two weeks after the Democrats left, effectively delaying the vote on Gov. Scott Walker's proposal.
Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said the action is legally different from an arrest, but "definitely a shift from asking them politely."
The resolution gives the sergeant at arms the authority to take any and all steps, with or without force and assistance from police, to bring the senators back.
The state Constitution prohibits the arrest of lawmakers while in session unless they're accused of committing felonies, treason or breach of peace.
But James Troupis, a private attorney hired by Fitzgerald, argued Thursday that the move is legal, because the state Constitution allows each house to "compel the attendance of absent members," the Wisconsin State Journal reported.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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That right there is funny!! I really like this part... Quote:
The resolution gives the sergeant at arms the authority to take any and all steps, With or without force and assistance from police, to bring the senators back.
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I can tell for a 100% fact that not all state workers are paying 15% of their medical, every corrections employee covered under our current contract, roughly 10,000 people, we have been paying 20% for about 2 years now.
Of course I'm against SB5, but I do understand that something needs done. I like the idea of everyone sharing the cuts statewide!
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I figure it is their job to MANAGE. I just make sure I'm well versed on our contract and what I do, and don't get.
My thoughts on SB5, I went to school for education. I'm just working retail now (making approximately the same $ as a starting teacher) and returning to get an associates in something in something computer related this fall.
The general state of teaching now drove me from the field. I love learning, and I love teaching, but the intense pressures of getting x amount of students to pass a standardized test, increasing cuts in education, etc, just disgust me.
Seeing SB5 pass, and some of my friends who are VERY passionate about education are essentially packing up shop and moving out of state. I sympathize with them, but fear for the state's future if a majority of the good teachers we have bail.
This is just how it touches me personally. It might appear as if I'm being wishy-washy, but I think that Unions are necessary to protect workers from being treated unfairly. However, I don't think they should exist to protect those who are lazy/unskilled/unmotivated from losing a job they perform poorly.
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A single paragraph in the amended Senate Bill 5 has university professors across Ohio protesting that the altered bill is "worse than the original." Unlike the original proposal, the version passed by the Ohio Senate on Wednesday does not eliminate collective bargaining for state workers. But it includes a provision that would bar from collective bargaining any professor who is a "management level employee," including anyone who participates in governance, either individually or through a Faculty Senate. The American Association of University Professors protested Thursday that the provision would include nearly all college professors, including about 1,800 represented by the University of Cincinnati's AAUP chapter. The union called the language "an attempt to mislead and misdirect by claiming that because professors have a say in the aforementioned areas, they are managers and not employees." "Giving faculty a say in these areas of shared governance doesn't make them managers," wrote Sara Kaminski, executive director of the Ohio AAUP conference, in a newsletter to members. Bill sponsor Shannon Jones, R-Springboro, said the Inter-University Council, which includes all of Ohio's public colleges, had proposed the language. "It's their choice (whether they're managers or employees)," Jones said. "If you're participating in management functions then you're not part of the union." The language is based in part on a 1980 U.S. Supreme Court case ruling that professors at a private college, Yeshiva University, were managerial employees and not covered by the National Labor Relations Act. The dispute is just one of dozens in the pitched battle over SB5. Proponents say it's the only way to balance the state's deficit, while opponents say Gov. John Kasich and Republicans are out to destroy public-sector unions. The bill would cover all public employees, including about 20,000 unionized employees who work at the state's public colleges. Many are not professors and are members of other unions. But the AAUP is by far the biggest union contract at UC. At UC and many other universities, service is a job requirement for professors, either on departmental or university-wide committees that evaluate candidates for tenure or promotion, propose new programs or study ways to improve operations. The amended bill says participating in personnel decisions, budget preparation, admission policies, curriculum or methods of instruction or research would make a professor a management-level employee. "This language clearly serves to prohibit faculty from their right to bargain," Kaminski wrote. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110303/NEWS01/103040349
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
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General question: How come months ago people were freaking out about letting the TEMPORARY tax cuts expire for those who make over $250,000 but are perfectly OK with cutting benefits of teachers who average $50,000-70,000 per year? Why not increase the top marginal tax rate to 38%? That's what it was during Reagan and would go a long way to balancing the budget. How come it's only that the public union sector has to make a sacrifice? If these states are serious about balancing the budget why not make it a collective effort, not an attack on those who are in public sector unions?
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Quote:
General question: How come months ago people were freaking out about letting the TEMPORARY tax cuts expire for those who make over $250,000 but are perfectly OK with cutting benefits of teachers who average $50,000-70,000 per year? Why not increase the top marginal tax rate to 38%? That's what it was during Reagan and would go a long way to balancing the budget. How come it's only that the public union sector has to make a sacrifice? If these states are serious about balancing the budget why not make it a collective effort, not an attack on those who are in public sector unions?
First of all, tax cut extension is federal. State workers are paid by the state, not the federal gov't. and B) Taxes come out of our pockets. C) State workers's wages and benefits come out of our pockets.Why should state workers be exempt from cuts while those in the private sector have been gutted and laid off? If the private sector didn't get gutted, the states, minus California, wouldn't be in as big of a mess as they are because there would be more tax money coming from the private sector. What your plan is to punish people by having jobs in the private sector by paying higher taxes to a) support public workers that have been spared so far in this downturn and b) those who have laid off in the private sector. I can't speak for other states, but California is just finally getting around to making small real cuts, and still have yet to lay off any excess state workers and there pay has even risen in some cases.
In my county, the average teacher salary is $77,862, increased by 2% last year. The disctrict with the lowest is at $70,998. [Source]
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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What state do you live in? Nevermind, I checked the link. You cannot compare Orange County, California with Ohio. Your state is so out of whack it isn't even funny. I posted a link earlier that had Ohio teachers salaries. Moat of the Ohio counties are under $50,000 and the highest few are a little more than $60,000.
Last edited by Pdawg; 03/04/11 08:34 AM.
#gmstrong
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Rank County Average - Rank County Average
1 Cuyahoga $62,575 - 45 Muskingum $48,545
2 Franklin $61,569 - 46 Brown $48,397
3 Hamilton $60,523 - 47 Carroll $48,387
4 Lake $58,976 - 48 Morrow $48,347
...5 Summit $56,302 - 49 Fulton $48,336
6 Greene $56,289 - 50 Ashland $48,315
7 Geauga $55,986 - 51 Marion $48,303
8 Medina $55,402 - 52 Knox $48,162
9 Montgomery $55,308 - 53 Guernsey $48,028
10 Ottawa $54,805 - 54 Holmes $47,923
11 Warren $54,219 - 55 Hancock $47,905
12 Clermont $53,952 - 56 Clinton $47,794
13 Lorain $53,833 - 57 Allen $47,552
14 Fairfield $53,666 - 58 Coshocton $47,544
15 Portage $53,642 - 59 Paulding $47,519
16 Lucas $53,597 - 60 Columbiana $47,298
17 Butler $53,552 - 61 Seneca $47,276
18 Erie $53,534 - 62 Madison $47,184
19 Union $53,500 - 63 Washington $47,139
20 Wood $53,472 - 64 Champaign $47,125
21 Clark $53,113 - 65 Huron $46,751
22 Delaware $52,926 - 66 Richland $46,615
23 Miami $52,161 - 67 Adams $46,560
24 Pickaway $51,968 - 68 Fayette $46,510
25 Stark $51,830 - 69 Scioto $46,489
26 Wayne $51,708 - 70 Athens $46,482
27 Auglaize $51,403 - 71 Putnam $46,177
28 Mahoning $51,090 - 72 Preble $46,022
29 Sandusky $51,089 - 73 Crawford $46,011
30 Licking $51,008 - 74 Wyandot $45,824
31 Ashtabula $50,986 - 75 Lawrence $45,774
32 Mercer $50,802 - 76 Tuscarawas $45,575
33 Trumbull $50,563 - 77 Perry $44,818
34 Darke $49,732 - 78 Hardin $44,557
34 Van Wert $49,732 - 79 Highland $44,492
36 Gallia $49,657 - 80 Morgan $44,395
37 Shelby $49,617 - 81 Belmont $44,198
38 Pike $49,589 - 82 Vinton $44,186
39 Logan $49,545 - 83 Noble $42,991
40 Defiance $49,536 - 84 Jackson $42,804
41 Henry $49,243 - 85 Harrison $41,481
42 Hocking $49,064 - 86 Jefferson $41,293
43 Williams $49,026 - 87 Monroe $41,032
44 Ross $48,853 - 88 Meigs $39,337
Source: Ohio Department of Education, 2007-08 data
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Ohio's Elected Officials' Salaries
State Government Employee Salaries
Office.....................'10 Salary.....Current Official
Governor...................$144,269.....John Kasich
Lt Governor...............$142,501.....MaryTaylor
Sec of State..............$109,554....Jon Husted
Att General...............$109,554.....Mike DeWine
Treasurer..................$109,554.....Josh Mandel
The salary of Ohio's governor ranks 14th among U.S. governors' salaries. The average salary earned by U.S. governors is $128,735. The median salary earned by U.S. governors is $129,962.
Legislators' Salary
Ohio state legislators receive a salary of $60,584 per year. Legislators do not receive a per diem.
Ohio Judicial Salaries
Position.................'10 Salary..........Current Justice
Chief Justice..........$150,850...........Maureen O'Connor
Ass Justice...........$141,600............Paul Pfeifer
Ass Justice...........$141,600............Evelyn Stratton
Ass Justice...........$141,600............Yvette McGee Brown
Ass Justice...........$141,600............Terrence O'Donnell
Ass Justice...........$141,600............Judith Ann Lanzinger
Ass Justice...........$141,600............Robert Cupp
The salary of Ohio's chief justice ranks 28th among U.S. chief justices' salaries. The average salary earned by U.S. chief justices is $155,230. The median salary earned by U.S. chief justices is $151,284.
The salary of Ohio's associate justices ranks 31st among U.S. associate justices' salaries. The average salary earned by U.S. associate justices is $151,142. The median salary earned by U.S. associate justices is $145,984.
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Balancing state budgets on the backs of middle class workers who are far from the highest paid state workers in Ohio, makes absolutely no sense.
SHARED SACRIFICE by all state workers in Ohio makes "perfect sense".
Gov. Kasich is not willing to sacrifice anything to help with Ohio's budget deficit, while asking working class Ohioans to bear all the burden...
...This approach is similar to a "DICTATOR" or a "KING" taking whatever he wants from the people, forcing them to support the "KING KASICH" and rich GOP/TeaParty life style.
I think Americans and especially voters in the Northern states are realizing they made a huge mistake supporting the Tea Party/GOP.
DICTATORS AND KINGS never survive...they all end up losing when the people as a whole revolt against them.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Quote:
The salary of Ohio's governor ranks 14th among U.S. governors' salaries.
Isn't Ohio the 7th largest state? Looks like your governor is already underpaid.
yebat' Putin
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum The situation in Wisconsin [Part
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