Quote: Throw a great PG (which #1 would bring) along with another solid big
Problem is, there's no "slam-dunk" PG's in this years draft. There's Irving, and that's about it. And he's not getting the same hype that Wall, or Rose or Paul/Deron did when they were in college. He COULD be a great PG ... or he could be a Mike Conley/Evan Turner. Let's just say we get a pretty good PG, but no Chris Paul ...
Quote: and add a guy like Iguodala in a trade for salary relief, a pick, and maybe a couple of young players .... and suddenly you're looking at a team with some real potential.
... no, you're looking at Atlanta Hawks North.
You have to have that ONE slam dunk player. All the top teams have one (or two). Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, KG/PP/Allen, Tim Duncan, etc. And this draft doesn't have an obvious slam dunk.
Irving was getting the same hype until he broke his foot and missed the season. He was ridiculously good, but scouts (and the rest of us) really wanted to see him against ACC competition.
And, then the 2nd best prospect may be Enes Kanter, but it's impossible to know for sure because he is ineligible to play college ball this year.
Add in that Sullinger is on the shorter end for a NBA PF despite his great fundamentals and that Perry Jones is a perfect athlete and height but doesn't have those fundamentals and the best 4 prospects all have question marks.
That doesn't mean those question marks might end up being dubious and that this might end up being a good draft (for Sullinger, see how Love gets past his height deficiency, Perry is obviously just if he lives up to his potential, and Irving/Kanter are just unknown).
It's possible that 1-4 of these guys are superstars waiting to happen. And, as a Cavs fan, we can hope that 2 of them become really, really good and we get both. It's probably completely irrational hope, but what else do we have right now?
I bought this for my nephew. It arrived in really nice packaging, came together easy, looked strong and tough......but it fell apart in the last 10 seconds. Go figure.
Quote: Did you have to ship it to Miami to get fixed, but then they just told you it fell apart some more?
Nah ... he called ..... but they just cried .........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Wade and Bosh refuse to watch television until the media stops talking about them crying. Poor guys.
So ...... how will they know that the media has stopped talking about them if they stop watching ........?
These guys loved the media when they were kissing their asses and talking about dynasties ........ but now ..... well, like they say ..... the media is a fickle mistress.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: No worries Lis, we ALL Lakers fans tonight.
Not me, I don't mind the Heat. Of course I also like Lebron and Dwayne Wade.
(But I'm a Celtics fan, so I'm different than most on this board when it comes to NBA) I also like the Knicks and Nets, but Celtics are number one in my heart
amazing what happens when you take lebron off the ball in crunch time. wade saved them from further embarassment.
kobe got too caught up in the moment though. taking a lot of hero shots, a key turnover as well. the good thing for laker fans is that he doesn't normally do that in the playoffs.
That's too bad .... I was looking to tears to go along with the snowflakes.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Wouldn't it be something if the Heat had to break up their team ..... with almost no 1st round draft picks left in the next 4 or 5 drafts ......?
If the league goes "hard cap" without exemptions, the Heat are going to have major problems, and even with the article wondering what the team could "get back" for a guy like Bosh ... they very well might have to pay someone to take him off their hands.
Post-Ups: Enjoy (or hate) this version of Heat while you can
By Ken Berger CBSSports.com Senior Writer March 11, 2011
Whatever becomes of the Miami Heat for the rest of this season -- whether first-round ouster to NBA Finals appearance -- there is trouble on the horizon for the champions of July. To a significant degree, the future of Pat Riley's superstar concoction will be determined weeks after the final buzzer -- in meeting rooms populated by lawyers and accountants.
After a much needed victory over the Lakers on Thursday night, a game in which the Big Three responded in big ways to a crisis moment, there are again reasons to look forward to such battles in the playoffs. Whether Miami can handle Chicago and Boston for a chance to flex its muscles against the Lakers in the Finals remains to be seen. It'll be fun. Just make sure you enjoy rooting for or hating on the Heat's superstar trio while it lasts, because the Big Three could be one and done.
Whatever the owners and players eventually decide during collective bargaining, some executives believe there's more than an outside chance Miami will have to break up its Big Three without even getting a chance to take the stage for an encore. What was good under a collective bargaining agreement ratified in 2005 may not be good under a punitive system that some hard-line owners are desperate to implement.
The Heat already have 12 players under contract for the 2011-12 season at just north of $67 million. The only CBA proposal offered by the owners thus far -- with 3½ months to go before the current agreement expires -- calls for a hard salary cap of $45 million. If existing contracts are grandfathered, or exempted from cap calculations if the league adopts a franchise tag, that could make up some of the difference. But those discussions can only be had if the National Basketball Players Association agrees to a hard cap. Coming out of the most recent bargaining session at All-Star weekend, such a system remains a deal-breaker for the players. Under current rules, teams that are over the cap can only improve through the draft, through trades in which they send out almost as much salary as they get back and by going further over the cap by signing players with the bi-annual and mid-level exceptions. In a hard-cap world, neither of those exceptions would exist. Without knowing what the new rules will be, it's difficult to imagine how the Heat are going to add missing pieces to the Big Three's supporting cast without trading one of the Big Three.
"If there's no midlevel, they're stuck," one rival executive said. "They're done."
Oh, and as for first-round picks? Miami doesn't have one in the upcoming draft; it goes to Chicago. The Heat's first-round pick goes to Cleveland in 2013 (when they have six players scheduled to make $71 million), and their first-round pick also goes to Cleveland in 2015 (when Miami's Big Three alone will be on the books for that season at $66 million).
The most obvious candidate for subtraction from the Big Three is Chris Bosh, who hasn't been able to produce the kind of impact Miami could have gotten from two or three cheaper role players. Bosh also has complained recently about not getting the ball in the post enough. Whether he has a point, this sort of griping at a time when the Heat were in crisis mode won't make Riley any more eager to pay him $16 million next season -- especially if Miami falls far short of its championship goal in Year 1.
What could -- or should -- Miami get for Bosh? If they wait until there's a new CBA, they'll be subject to trading him under the new rules, whatever they are. But trades under existing rules can still be made around the draft, when several teams -- Cleveland among them, coincidentally -- will still have cap space and trade exceptions they'd be able to use to absorb Bosh's contract.
Either way, the Heat and other star-laden teams will face pressure from two directions. First, teams may simply have to get rid of players to fit under the hard cap -- and that goes for the Lakers and Celtics, too. This is the model the NHL adopted in 2005, and one that a significant number of NBA owners are pushing. The second possibility is that even in a system that retains some of its flexibility and cap exceptions, the Heat may conclude that having 70 percent of their payroll tied up in three players simply is no way to win a championship. It makes it too difficult to surround your best players with the other pieces they need to win.
When this modern sports phenomenon was formed back in July, we all marveled at the overwhelming talent but ignored a key ingredient that was lacking -- playoff experience together. That comes over a period of years, and is forged by the kind of adversity Miami has endured during stretches this season and figures to face in the playoffs. There's no substitute for on-court, postseason battles involving the same core players over time.
The question for the Heat will become: Can we keep this team together long enough to get that? There are no guarantees -- other than the fact that you will now continue reading this week's Post-Ups:
• As Deron Williams continues on his path to an uncertain future in New Jersey/Brooklyn, more details are emerging over what led the Jazz to take the pre-emptive step of trading him to the Nets rather than dealing with a year-and-a-half of soap opera centered on trying to placate him in Utah. The powder-keg moment, to be sure, was an argument in the locker room between then-coach Jerry Sloan and Williams over at least one play -- and perhaps more -- that Williams refused to run in a Feb. 9 loss to the Bulls. Sloan resigned the next day. But multiple sources told CBSSports.com that Williams' wanderlust for a bigger market -- i.e. New York -- already had sealed his fate by then. During All-Star weekend in Los Angeles, CBSSports.com reported that Williams last summer began expressing a desire to join Amar'e Stoudemire with the Knicks when he becomes a free agent in 2012. After the All-Star Game, Williams dismissed the story as "not credible," but didn't deny his intentions. The Jazz, sources said, already were well aware of those intentions and had no desire to become the next Toronto, Cleveland or Denver as the NBA's game of superstar musical chairs rolled on. In fact, the website NBA Confidential reported recently that Jazz GM Kevin O'Connor's strategy all along was to enter discussions about Williams with either the Knicks or Nets -- whichever lost out in the Carmelo Anthony sweepstakes.
But the final straw, sources said, came during All-Star weekend, when word got back to Jazz officials that Williams had been spending his time polling fellow All-Stars about possibly hooking up with them via a trade or free agency. This was nothing unique to Williams, said one of the sources, who added, "They were all doing it." As All-Star weekend was being consumed by speculation over Anthony's future, other All-Stars were using the gathering as a sort of job fair. This was precisely the kind of circus the Jazz sought to avoid, and Williams was traded to New Jersey within 72 hours.
• As the Timberwolves limp to the 50-loss mark and beyond, it becomes a question of which number will be greater at the end of the season: Minnesota's loss total or Kevin Love's double-double streak, which reached a record 52 Wednesday night. Of far greater certainty is the status of coach Kurt Rambis, who appears to be on his way out after only two seasons. Though management won't make a final decision until the season is over, sources say there is significant push from within to make a coaching change. Atop the Timberwolves' list of potential successors is Bucks assistant Kelvin Sampson, one of the people with knowledge of the organization's thinking said. With a young roster clearly lacking in veteran leadership, some members of the Minnesota brain trust believe the team needs a more vocal, energetic coach on the sideline. Rambis is cut from the Phil Jackson cloth of letting his players police themselves, and also has been at odds with Love for long stretches. A coaching change is something Love would not oppose, sources say. Of course, perhaps Rambis would've been more vocal or energetic if he wasn't saddled with among the youngest teams and lowest payrolls in the NBA. Rambis was hamstrung from the beginning in Minnesota, which has the league's fourth-lowest payroll and traded Al Jefferson to Utah last summer for two first-round picks and Kosta Koufos -- who subsequently was shipped to Denver as a throw-in in the three-team trade that sent Carmelo Anthony to New York. The Wolves are 16-50 after going 15-67 last season under Rambis, who has had an inexperienced, wing-heavy roster with no serviceable point guard while the team waits for Ricky Rubio to someday leave Barcelona and join them. Though GM David Kahn continues to believe Rubio will be in Minnesota next season, the specter of a lockout would seem to lower those odds significantly. Rubio has a $1 million buyout, half of which could be paid by the Wolves -- but not if all or a significant part of the 2011-12 season is lost to a work stoppage.
• If you're puzzled by the Cavs' decision to acquire Baron Davis and the $28.7 million he has left on his contract over the next two seasons, it was the price the organization decided to pay for the rights to the Clippers' unprotected lottery pick in the 2011 draft. And given that Mo Williams makes $17 million over that span, the price for that pick actually was only $11.7 million. Both teams believe they got a good deal, but it all depends on what the Cavs do with the pick. Unless something goes horribly wrong, the Cavs will have two picks in the top 10 -- and still will have their $14.6 million trade exception intact from LeBron James' departure, the right to swap first-round picks with the Heat in 2012 (which won't likely be exercised), and the Heat's 2013 first-round pick (which is top-10 protected for two years and unprotected in 2015). The Clippers saw an opportunity to rid themselves of Davis, who never was able to live down his inability to keep Elton Brand in L.A. when Davis signed there in 2008. With a young roster showing promise, led by top Rookie of the Year candidate Blake Griffin, the Clippers have less need for a lottery pick in a draft that could be watered down due to underclassman staying in school over fear of a lockout. The Clippers also possess Minnesota's first-round pick, which is unprotected in 2012. See? An NBA trade that works for everybody. Maybe.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
there's no way there will be a hard cap at 45 million. They have a soft cap this year at 58 million. I know the league is losing money, but not at that rate.
The problem is that the salary cap has to work for all of the teams.
That means that the lowest income team must be able to abide by the terms of the agreement, and remain in business, with some illusion of competitiveness.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a hard cap between $45 - $50 million. The NBA is far more reliant on local TV rights and such than the NFL is .... and their national contract doesn't provide anywhere near what the contract for the NFL does.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Wouldn't it be something if the Heat had to break up their team ..... with almost no 1st round draft picks left in the next 4 or 5 drafts ......?
all 3 of the small 3 have early termination contracts in 2013. the cavs have the heat's first round pick in 2014. i am over the lbj thing, i can watch him without getting all mad like typical cleveland fan does, but man i am hoping that thing falls apart for that very reason. if they all go their seperate ways you could be looking at a decent pick. wade might stay, he might not. i think he's realizing that he probably should have gone to the bulls.
everyone is saying "well lebron shoulda gone to chicago" i disagree, and i will say the same thing i did back in june. derek rose is worthless on the floor with lbj. he's a point guard, he needs the ball, he dominates with the ball. lebron is the same way. that is why wade isn't what he used to be. it'd be the same with lebron on the bulls. i think they might actually be worse than they are now with lebron. as it stands now they are a pretty solid team that could go to maybe the conference finals.
wade needs the ball, but not like lebron does. i think wade could adapt better to playing with rose. and the 2 spot on the bulls is the glaring weak spot. they have no true 2 guard starter there.
i still think what i thought in june, that the best place for lbj would have been in cleveland. they had the team, a new coach who would have done good, and flexibility within their finance. as well as a determined owner.
understand that the NBA likes the idea of the Miami Heat generating publicity for the league. even if they agree to a hard cap, they would implement it in stages over several years so that they could keep teams like the Heat, Lakers, and Knicks together.
(on the non-cynical side: it would be unfair for teams to have a hard cap thrust upon them. they would implement it in stages so that FO's could plan and make adjustments going forward.)
Those "powerhouse" teams are only a couple of the owners involved in the decision making process though.
I would bet that team owners will vote the way that benefits their own team the most. This isn't the NFL, where a huge national TV contract is divided evenly between all of the teams, and the closest thing to true revenue sharing is the law of the land. This is a far more competitive market, and while every team counts on a few "marquee" visits per year, they aren't going to give up what's best for their own team in order to make a twice a year visit by the Heat or Lakers more attractive. That would be idiotic.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
First, certain owners traditionally have more "sway" in league matters. The Buss's are tops of that list. They are the best at petitioning the other owners and getting what they want out of it.
Second, there are more "big" market owners than you might think (even teams like Orlando operate more like a big market team). And, there are currently 24 of the 30 teams over the soft $58mil cap this season. That number doesn't include the Bulls and Thunder who have been "saving" their money for their young corps and will obviously be going upwards over the next few seasons.
If they go to a hard cap I would expect it to be 5-10% higher than what the current soft cap is now. While that wouldn't force a team like Miami to be broken up outright, it would mean that they'd have to figure out a way to fill 12 roster spots with ~=$10 million, which means that they wouldn't be able to load up on 30+ year old ring chasers. I guarantee the players aren't going to agree to reduced vet minimums.
I put something forth when discussing this last fall that maybe a requirement that teams can't tie up more than 75-80% of their payroll in their five highest paid players is something they should consider.
i can't believe those racist cleveland fans. first they disown lebron james after the decision, then they go out and give kevin durant a nice ovation. i can't believe them!
If certain people look hard enough, they can find racism everywhere.
Michael Wilbon is really good at it (or bad). The young Steinbrenner made a comment a few weeks back about how the team didn't look organized and "on the ball" in the spring and then said, "Some of the guys are too busy building their mansions and marketing themselves" (paraphasing).
So Wilbon goes off that Steinny is really saying Jeter, who was the one building a new house, shouldn't because the slaves are supposed to have the small house while the master gets the mansion. And since he's the owner and Jeter is black, that's what Steinny was really saying. Either that, or Steinny was just saying Jeter seems a little preoccupied with his house when he should be playing baseball.
Look hard enough, you'll find it. Even when it's not there.
Look, I suppose I'm discounting the effect growing up in times where racism was prevelant, real, and very, very scary. That could really warp your mind to be defensive on everything.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
Wilbon is a very bitter man... I was watching that day too. I actually hope LeBetard or Simmons is there with Tony when I tune in - guess that makes me a racist.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college" GO ROCKETS
Yes, he comes off that way a lot. Again, I can't really expect someone that grew up in a more racist time than I to bury the hatchet already.
There are quite a few issues that are hot-button triggers for me that I react to in an irrational way because of something that happened in my history...and usually, they were isolated incidents. I can't begin to think what potential impacts being a minority during all the years he lived, where, and how it would change me forever having gone through it. So, I try to understand that angle too.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
4 straight double-digit losses makes me want to focus on the future more than the present. with the tourney starting, here are the guys I am looking at the Cavs possibly drafting with their slots:
Ok, we can't watch Irving, Kanter, or even Perry Jones in the tourney and I am sure everyone has their opinion on Sullinger set pretty much in stone as a NBA prospect. So, that's likely the list we are looking at for the Cavs 1st pick (outside the Euro guys).
For the Clippers pick, here are some of the guys I have my eye on:
the obvious names: Barnes, Derrick Williams, Terrence Jones the less obvious...
Kawhi Leonard, SD State - 6'7" SF who plays defense, rebounds as well as anybody and is incredibly physical. Oh, and he also can score. He definitely fits in with our 1st round drafting philosophy (assuming it doesn't change under Chris Grant).
Chris Singleton, Florida State - 6'9" and a smooth athlete, he belongs at SF in the NBA. He is great at running through screens and catching/shooting. Plus, he is a dominate defender. I would have loved to see FSU play SDSU because that matchup would have been one of the best of the tourney. Not sure which guy is my "favorite" for the Cavs to pick but it's one of these two and not the obvious names listed above.
Kenneth Faried, Morehead State - no, not really in the top10. 6'8" guys that are skinny as rails generally don't go that high even if they rebound like Dennis Rodman. He doesn't play Rodman level defense though he could be our next AV if he learns to play defense better and we end up trading our big haired monster. I love how this guy plays though.
Possible 2nd round targets (if they come out):
Tim Hardaway Jr., Michigan - 6'4" SG. Hey it worked to a lesser extent with Manny Harris. Really though if we see Eyenga as more of a SF, Timmy Jr. could be a nice fit at SG for us. He is athletic, but I've seen him get pretty lax on defense, which is his red flag.
Travis Leslie, Georgia - 6'4" SG who is basically a little more polished version of Eyenga. Jumps out of the gym and plays defense.
And, finally, one guy from the NIT who definitely deserves to be in the conversation for the Clippers pick:
Alec Burks, Colorado - at 6'6" he has the handle to play PG but the size and shooting ability to play SG. athleticism to play defense and from all reports is an extremely coachable kid who loves to work at it.
Lets say the clippers pick goes #2 or #3 and the Cavs don't get drawn. What about Jones and Kemba Walker?
*edit* I don't watch college basketball, but Walker's been getting so much pub for owning the end of games but doesn't seem to be thought of as a top-5 pick.
I assume you meant Perry Jones and not Terrence. I hate Perry Jones. He doesn't play defense, plays soft on offense, and doesn't know how to use his amazing athleticism. The best thing that happened to him was getting suspended for the tourney so there is no spotlight on him getting hammered by a physical frontcourt (assuming he would have had to play one).
Kemba Walker, as you noted, isn't thought of as a top10 pick ¡ight now. That could change if he puts UConn on his back for a deep tourney run and he gets more comparisons to Dwayne Wade, but I don't think he's "thick" enough to take the abuse in the NBA and think he'll be more like a Rip Hamilton. A nice enough player, but not one you take that high.
-------------------------------------
For what you noted, if the Clippers end up with #2/#3 and the Cavs sit at #4, I would be praying that we end up with Irving and Kanter. Neither of which we will get to see in the tournament so that takes away the fun from above
First, looks like Irving is going to play "big" minutes against Zona. Will be interested to see what he does now that he has his legs back (though Zona doesn't exactly have a suffocating defense).
Second, I was thinking about the draft lately. While I want Irving&Kanter, I can’t help but think that ‘next’ year’s team would be best if we ended up with Derrick Williams and Kanter.
I’d still rather draft the 2 BPA, which I think are Irving/Kanter in this draft (it would require some magic to get both obviously). But, just food for thought on what would be best for ‘next year’s team’ instead of long term (not that Derrick Williams would be bad longterm either though).
yeah, the more I watch Derrick Williams, the more I think "Shawn Marion with a jump shot and without the mood disorder" and what team couldn't use that type of player?
I know nothing of the Euro players (other than 1 is really tall and the other is apparently really athletic), but will trust our scouts on that one as they seemed to do pretty good scouting Eyenga.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif)
![[Linked Image from i75.photobucket.com]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i302/lrhinkle/d5eaf0b9-e429-4211-b53f-b843bfcf6aa9_zps2ac17420.jpg)
