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Not likely. Any smart person with a fair amount of "extra income" will have that stashed away in tax-free shelters.
AFTER they paid tax on it already, right? And when they take that money out of the "shelters" they pay tax on it again, right?
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Or, for example, have other easy deductions like a big mortgage payment.
You make it sound as if paying a mortgage is a bad thing. The way the law is, you can deduct the interest you pay on your mortgage. If I can, why can't a millionaire? You do understand the money for the mortgage still gets paid, right? It's not like they have a mortgage and their payment goes into their own account, right? If you can afford a million dollar house, shouldn't you get the same deal on your mortgage that the guy that owns a $50,000 house gets?
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The more you make, the more you can find loopholes and deductions to NOT pay taxes. I'm not a millionaire by any means but my financial advisor points out how easy it is to avoid taxes with come creative investing.
If your adviser is telling you of the laws that exist, he's doing his job, is he not?
I'm not saying there aren't cheats. What I am saying is people at the low end of income cheat just as much as others at the middle, or high income levels. If you get a paycheck, you pay taxes on that. If you have investment income, you pay taxes on that - before you invest, or after you take it out.
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Its so silly how the system works. Yes, it works in my favor right now but I think the notion of "the more you make, the more tax you pay" is absolutely wrong.
I don't.
Look at who pays the taxes in this country. I don't have a chart handy, or a link - but doesn't something like the top 10% of earners pay about 50% of the taxes? Those numbers aren't exact, but they're darn close.
The problem is the bottom 50% pay about 2% of the taxes (fed. income tax). Again, not exact.
Let's jump forward here: Tax cheats - CHEATS - should be made to pay.
People that reduce their taxes through means our gov't. has deemed legal - why should they get punished?
Like I said - let's jump forward here: As DC said, and I think you agreed - let's simplify the tax code.
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AFTER they paid tax on it already, right? And when they take that money out of the "shelters" they pay tax on it again, right?
Not necessarily. There are plenty of tax-free investments and if high-income earners are using these for even more income/growth, there is NO tax paid on them...even when cashing out. "Income" is more than just a paycheck when you have more money.
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You make it sound as if paying a mortgage is a bad thing. The way the law is, you can deduct the interest you pay on your mortgage. If I can, why can't a millionaire? You do understand the money for the mortgage still gets paid, right? It's not like they have a mortgage and their payment goes into their own account, right? If you can afford a million dollar house, shouldn't you get the same deal on your mortgage that the guy that owns a $50,000 house gets?
You must have misunderstood or I didn't explain. I think being able to deduct my mortgage is great and I wish everyone could do it. But its one of the "advantages", if you will, of tax deductions. Higher mortgage interest = more tax deduction. This doesn't exist for folks who have lower incomes and need to rent. That was kinda my point...there are many deductions that people with more money can make every year to reduce the amount of tax they pay and middle/lower class cannot.
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If your adviser is telling you of the laws that exist, he's doing his job, is he not?
I'm not saying there aren't cheats. What I am saying is people at the low end of income cheat just as much as others at the middle, or high income levels. If you get a paycheck, you pay taxes on that. If you have investment income, you pay taxes on that - before you invest, or after you take it out.
Yes, he is doing his job. And I agree with what DC said....it all comes down to deductions and the ridiculous loopholes for things like "business" write offs and "meetings". You need to be a higher earner to buy these things in order to get the write off later. It's not cheating if it's legal.
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Look at who pays the taxes in this country. I don't have a chart handy, or a link - but doesn't something like the top 10% of earners pay about 50% of the taxes? Those numbers aren't exact, but they're darn close.
I'd love to see some facts behind this and because I've also "heard" where the top 10% make 90% of the money so it would make sense that they pay 90% of the taxes, right?
I think it all comes down to percentages. I know I made about 10x this past year than my parents (who are retired and working part-time jobs) made. With my deductions, I effectively paid about 9% of what I grossed. They paid about 22% because they don't have the deductibility that I do.
So I would agree that millionaires pay more actual money to the tax pool but pay a FAR lesser percentage. That's why I'm all for the fair/flat-tax concept too!!
I think we are on the same page, actually.
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*In Baker we trust*
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You two aren't that far apart... This isn't about cheaters vs non-cheaters, this is about doing what is right..
If I have enough money to move it around the world, if I have enough money to buy certain types of investments that come in larger blocks, if I have enough money to buy depriciating assets, if I have enough money to buy a second home, if I have enough money to max out my retirement account options, then I can reduce my taxable income so that I pay a percentage which is well below that of people beneath my income. I don't want to arrest or punish them, they are doing nothing wrong by the law.. I want to change the law.
I find it odd that we have a system under which nobody here can actually say how much they pay in taxes in a year.. most people probably can't even come close... and many people don't have a problem with that.
yebat' Putin
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I think we're on the same page - basically.
However - could you please tell me (this is for my sake only), where I could put an "extra" $100 to $500 a month where I don't get taxed on it? Not when I put it in, not when I take it out?
Also - as far as business expenses (and I'm sure you don't mean legitimate, have to have to run the business sort of things) - keep in mind that the salesperson that wines and dines a prospective OR current customer is, #1, spending money. Money that the business/customer/restaurant he spends it on/at pays taxes on - it also helps to employ the employees of that company.
That huge dinner party that gets written off? If it's legit - it should be. First of all - that money is spent - it's not like it sits in your account/the business account. It's no different than the mortgage interest deduction.
And, again, secondly - that spent money is employing others - that pay taxes.
Not trying to be argumentative here - just pointing out a few things that me - and my, as many on here think of me - my "simple" mind - think of.
People that rent? They pay rent, so the landlord can pay his mortgage. And his property taxes, etc. (yes, first and foremost they pay rent to have a roof over their heads, granted). See, I'm not one that thinks renters don't pay property tax - they do - only it's in the form of rent, instead of a check made out to the county.
But, by the same token - yes, the landlord gets a mortgage deduction for owning the property - but he/she also pays the mortgage and the property tax out of that rent.
Okay - I'm rambling now. Let me in on these investments where I can put money in without having paid tax on that money, and where I can take it out without paying tax on it when I take it out.
As for the breakdown of who pays the fed. taxes? Links are all over. I'll get one or 2 for you.
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I'd love to see some facts behind this and because I've also "heard" where the top 10% make 90% of the money so it would make sense that they pay 90% of the taxes, right?
It's actually not even close to those numbers. Here's the link I got this chart from, and here's the link they got the info from.
The top 10% actually make 46% of the income and pay 70% of the taxes.
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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I find it odd that we have a system under which nobody here can actually say how much they pay in taxes in a year.. most people probably can't even come close... and many people don't have a problem with that.
I can tell you, to the dollar, what I and my wife pay in fed. and state income tax, as well as property tax. What I can't tell you is what we spend in sales tax, .............and, well, instead of listing all the other taxes we pay, gas tax, alcohol tax, city tax, on and on...........suffice it to say we are taxed too much. "We" being the citizens of this country.
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It's also a very interesting chart that (if accurate) the top 50% of wage earners pay 97.3% of all taxes ... meaning that for the sake of argument, half of all wage earners support **almost** the entire system.
Not getting at anything, it's just a pretty interesting point to look at.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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I'd love to see some facts behind this and because I've also "heard" where the top 10% make 90% of the money so it would make sense that they pay 90% of the taxes, right?
It's actually not even close to those numbers. Here's the link I got this chart from, and here's the link they got the info from.
The top 10% actually make 46% of the income and pay 70% of the taxes.
And the bottom 50% pay 2.7% of the taxes while they make 12.7% of the income.
My "rememberer" numbers weren't too far off.
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I am not aware of any investment that functions as you describe. There are tax-deferred investments where the earnings are taxed according to total earnings for that year which can reduce rates, but nothing SFAIK which is as you describe, other than some very high-risk items. Discussing Rate of Return without including Risk is non-sensible to the point of deliberate lying.
Most "tax-free" investments are so structured because there is a high degree of risk. Everybody will crow about the "rich" who make an investment of $100,000 and avoid $30,000 of tax. They rarely mention the occasions where the ENTIRE $100,000 is lost, simply gone. These are usually "risky" investments. Basic economics will tell you that if you want people to undertake a higher risk, you must offer a higher reward.
Tax incentives are offered by governments so that things they want done, get done. There is a new company moving into my area that will employ several hundred people. The state and local governments gave numerous tax breaks to entice them to build here instead of somewhere else. Similar deals are often given to sports stadiums, for instance.. They result in a net revenue gain for the city, county, and state, and lower taxes for everyone who lives there.
Before someone mentions off-shore banking, I will. I used to work for a guy who was, technically, a "millionaire". He had deposited several tens of thousands in a Cayman Islands bank. I was present when, after repeated phone calls, he finally got a janitor in an empty building.
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47% of those who filed returns last year paid no income tax ........ so of course 53% are paying everything.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'd love to see some facts behind this and because I've also "heard" where the top 10% make 90% of the money so it would make sense that they pay 90% of the taxes, right?
It's actually not even close to those numbers. Here's the link I got this chart from, and here's the link they got the info from.
The top 10% actually make 46% of the income and pay 70% of the taxes.
And the bottom 50% pay 2.7% of the taxes while they make 12.7% of the income.
My "rememberer" numbers weren't too far off.
Ahhh...the old "AGI" number. "Adjusted Gross Income". Income after deductions. I'd be REALLY curious to know what the Gross Income to tax money paid is. This chart is kinda pointless because the AGI doesn't tell how much they actually made. All it really shows is that the top earners pay the most amount in taxes but what we can't see here is the percentage of tax paid vs ACTUAL money made.
If we had a flat tax system, there would be no such thing as AGI and everyone just pays a flat percentage of what their Gross Income is. No deductions, no complications, no "legal cheating", and fair across the board. People who have massive deductions would end up paying more but the flat tax rate would have to be low enough to not make it much more.
I'm much more interested in a fair percentage than fair total numbers.
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That was my first thought too Diehard... the whole point has been that the rich have ways of reducing their AGI.. Once the AGI is established the tax code is easy to figure out... it's getting from the gross income to the AGI that is the problem... that is the area where those with more money are able to better manipulate the system.
yebat' Putin
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That was my first thought too Diehard... the whole point has been that the rich have ways of reducing their AGI.. Once the AGI is established the tax code is easy to figure out... it's getting from the gross income to the AGI that is the problem... that is the area where those with more money are able to better manipulate the system.
Exactly.
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*In Baker we trust*
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and to be clear, I don't begrudge the rich for using every legal means necessary to keep as much money as they can... and I don't necessarily want to take a whole bunch more of their money, I just want a system that is easier to understand and gives everybody who makes money the opportunity to participate. 
yebat' Putin
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I completely agree with you.
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I think I should be able to keep every penny of my money until the boneheads in Washington prove they can use the money given to them in a responsible and beneficial manner. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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If a single person makes $30,000, he gets a personal exemption of $3650, and that is all his until he gets to $166,000 or so in income, whe it starts phasing out. They also get their personal deduction of $5800 ..... unless they itemize, and then they lose that as well.
So .... if a single person makes $250,000, and has $25,000 in deductions ..... they will still pay income tax on $225,000 .... which is a considerable amount of money. Even if they have $50,000 in deductions .. which is unlikely .... they would still pay income tax on $200,000.
Now, if a single person makes $15,000, they can deduct their personal exemption of $3650, and their personal deduction of $5800. That's $9450 in deductions. They have a taxable income of $5550. They would be in the 10% bracket, which would be $550 in federal tax ..... but might also qualify for EITC. I'm not sure of the limts on the program.
Anyway .... the last example has a person making $15,000 paying $550 in tax ..... which isabout 3.5% of their total income. I bet that "rich" people pay more than that ...... and I also bet that a person making $40,000 with a wife and 3 kids is paying less than that ... or nothing ..... or getting money back beyond every dollar they had deducted from their paycheck ........
Man I would love a graduated flat tax, starting at dollar one. No deductions. Just a flat percentage based on total income for the year.
Make less than $7500 ..... pay 2%. Make $7500-%15000 .... pay 5%. Make $15000-$30,000 ..... pay 10%. $30,000-$50,000 ... 15%. $50,000 - $100,000 ..... 25%. Go on up the scale ..... flat, in sections. Everyone pays 2% on their first $7500 in income. Everyone pays the graduated scale all the way up to their total income for the year.
Those who would whine the most? Those would be those who only take from the federal income tax system, rather than contributing to the operation of the country. The middle class, and upper middle class are, for the most part, already paying taxes. Changing the format around really won't change things a lot there.
I bet a lot of people would vote much differently if they actually paid taxes towards the operation and upkeep of our country .... even if it was a very small amount. Everyone should pay something. No one should get a free ride. Hell, welfare benefits should be taxed just so those people can have some "investment" in the process.
I could go on and on ..... but I won't. All I know if that the present system lets too many people off the hook entirely .... and screws too many others.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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but... but... but what about the single mom of 6 making 15k a year. She can't barely afford to feed her family and now you want her to pay taxes?  
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Yes, I do.
People who pay no taxes have no personal investment in the future of our country. They don't care as long as "they get theirs", regardless of what it costs other to pay for their benefits.
There are a lot of people who should consider themselves lucky that I am not absolute dictator over this country. I would make sure that every able bodied person who wanted to work, had some sort of job. If they are going to collect benefits, they will work for them. The tax system would be restructured so that success is not penalized. If I had to use tax credits, I would use them to incentivize job creation only. Those who strive for a better life would find live beautiful in my monarchy. Those who want to take and take, and never contribute a second of their life to their own support will have problems. Sorry ..... but ya gotta grow up sometime.
Way I figure it, about half the country would love me, and about half would hate me. That's about right for any politician today, except I would have the power to actually change things ..... and change things, I would.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I bet a lot of people would vote much differently if they actually paid taxes towards the operation and upkeep of our country ....
I bet a lot of people would vote differently if the politician had to stand up and say, "Ytown, you pay 12% in taxes, I want to raise your rate to 13.5% to cover XYZ programs." Then you could make an informed decision...
Instead you get, "Ytown, you have no idea how much you pay in taxes but I want to give you this Earned Income Credit, with an offsetting Health Care Exposure tax of 3.5678% of yoru adjusted gross income. Now I'm also going to allow you to bump up your child tax deduction from $4500 to $4800 with the understanding that only the first $800 of your dependent care expenses will now be deductible instead of the previous $1250, meanwhile I'm only going to allow you to write off 27% of your personal business expenses instead of the previous 35% but I'm going to reduce your marginal tax rate by .75% for the first $15,000 in income. Then I'm going to give you a $1000 tax credit if you put thermal double pane windows in your home with a value of over $3000 and if you buy a battery powered car you can deduct 35% of the purchase price but if you buy a hybrid you can only deduct 14% of the purchase price. What do you think? In the end you'll be better off because you are a hardworking American and I'm here for you, trust me. Can I count on your vote?"
yebat' Putin
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Retirement age should be raised to 70 as well. We live longer with a better quality of life than when it was originally set up. If you saved and can retire before then, good for you. But if not then you should have to work.
What about the public service worker who receives full retirement benefits after 30 years. Thats not age 65 that is often age 55.
If they could Fire, every public school teacher, administrator, and Professor, and bring Someone else in to take their job at 1/2 the pay and none of the benefits, then alot of the problems would have been solved, budget wise.
Keep in mind that this has already happened to all of the construction, factory and transportation jobs in the last 40 years.
Is there any part of your town, that appears to care less about the cost of extravagance than the education systems of all kinds?
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If they could Fire, every public school teacher, administrator, and Professor, and bring Someone else in to take their job at 1/2 the pay and none of the benefits, then alot of the problems would have been solved, budget wise.
Now why hasn't anyone thought about that......it's so simple! 
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Are America's Best Days Behind Us?
YES, for most Americans, in terms of economics, America's best days are behind us and until Americans wake up and decide to do something about it, enjoy today, because tomorrow is not going to be better for most Americans.
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Yes Virginia, There is Class Warfare
March - 6 - 2011
There’s an old saying, “If you don’t know you’re in a war, you’ve already lost.”
Americans seem to know that corporations and the wealthy are accumulating the power and wealth of this nation for themselves. They seem to be aware that politicians are bought off and serve their corporate backers’ wishes, doing all they can to pass laws that enrich the wealthy and blocking legislation that doesn’t (ie, benefit 99.5% of Americans).
And yet, this awareness seems totally disconnected for many Americans from the concept of class warfare. Somehow, through the onslaught of conditioning we’ve been subjected to since childhood, hyping materialism, capitalism, the American Dream and “You too will be a millionaire one day!”, many Americans still seem to stop short of recognizing that they are in the midst of a war that they are losing. Yet, it is the case and the proof is in the news every single day.
It is not difficult to understand for some who are living in crisis and have to be most concerned with the immediate, trying to cope with paying their rent or mortgage this month, finding a job, buying food for the week, paying for health care they can’t afford, or scraping up enough to send their children to a local college. They don’t necessarily have the luxury of time to reflect on and recognize the systematic assault over the last 30 years and see that the most recent events are actually a part of a long term battle plan to rob and subjugate the American People.
And to be frank, many people just take life as it comes, taking each incident on it’s own and not looking for patterns of behavior or how the latest incident fits in with past ones. The problem with that is that when powerful and wealthy entities want something, they create an overall strategy. They work with and pay professionals to design and develop “war plans” that identify the desired goals, the projected obstacles and how to overcome those obstacles. They recognize the power of media and public opinion and have over the years bought up the media and put a facade of “personal responsibility” and “freedom for all Americans” over their true motivations of greed and dominance.
They have sown social conflict and discontent among Americans, both to profit off of it financially and polarize Americans. As long as people are lured into playing their game of division, the “peasants” can be fooled into going at each others’ throats while the wealthy quietly steal their homes, jobs and futures right out from under them. Divide and conquer, especially when the armies are 306 million vs. 1 million. As long as The American people continue to see the enemy as other Americans, who do not have a great share of wealth or power in this nation, the wealthy who do have that wealth and power (and are increasing that) remain safe.
The only fear that the wealthy and corporations have…is of Americans acting in their own best interests. The one vulnerability they have is that they are less than half of a percent of America’s population and we still hold elections where majority rules. It only takes 51% of Americans in 51% of districts to say, “We will only elect someone who will tax the wealthy their fair share and prevent laws from passing that only benefit the wealthy!” and things could change dramatically. That is the power of a democracy, that is the power of a united people.
We don’t have to live with diminished expectations, we don’t have to give up on handing our children a better standard of living than we had. We don’t have to give up on good schools, unpolluted air and water, peace, equality for all or economic justice. We can have all of these things but only if we are willing to throw off our Snuggies and open the door and get into the streets to stand up for The American People.
As I said at the outset, Step One in winning this war is to say loud and clear and accept in your heart, “There is class warfare going on right now against us.” The advancing armies of the wealthy have invaded and annexed our Media, our Politics, our economy and they are marching on our public services and safety nets now. They can’t be appeased, they live only to conquer and pillage. We have the numbers, we muct join together and go to the streets to defend our democracy and nation.
One aspect of this class war is so Orwellian. As the wealthy conduct their assaults on the American People, anyone who stands up to complain is pilloried by them and their MSM cronies as “calling for class warfare”. They have redefined the term “class warfare” as applying only to those who try to defend themselves from the class warfare being marshaled by the wealthy against 99.5% of Americans. And to their discredit, politicians and talking heads are often cowed by this label, quickly backpedaling from taking on the wealthy’s war on America and retrenching to say, “I just want fairness.”
That’s ... and needs to stop. IMO, the correct response, when asserting that the wealthy are at war with Americans and being asked by an MSM drone, “Are you advocating class warfare?” , is, “Hell no, I’m trying to fight against it as all Americans should! The wealthy have been conducting class warfare against The American People for 30 years and that’s long enough! Americans have to come together to win this war because we are indeed in the midst of class warfare and if we don’t unite and fight back, we’ll lose!”
War was officially declared on 99.5% of Americans when Trickle Down/Supply Side economics was promoted and implemented under Ronald Reagan. One need not be an economist to understand the basic theory here: Wealthy people should get money from the rest of us because they are more powerful and wiser and will spend it in a way that will bring a fraction of it back to us after they have taken a share for themselves. From there, the destruction of our infrastructure and the middle class and class warfare was intentionally begun by the wealthy and Republicans.
As an example, let’s consider tax cuts for the wealthy. It is a simple see-saw. Sitting on one side are the social services and commitments of the federal government that benefit nearly all Americans. On the other side are tax revenues. When a huge chunk of tax revenues are removed from one side of the see saw, the other side comes crashing down unless one of two things happen, more tax revenue is placed down or services are removed.
What needs to be understood is that the wealthy’s goal is different than 99.5% of Americans. They do not want the see-saw balanced, their goal is to get rid of it, removing every penny of theirs from the tax revenue side and ... everything else. They don’t need public schools, they don’t need aid for the poor, they don’t need Medicare of Social Security. If it all collapses, so what? More opportunity for private industry to pretend to be the answer and suck even more money out of Americans’ pockets while delivering worse and corrupt services.
They profited from the destruction of our economy. They will profit from the destruction of our standard of living. They want to see effective government that benefits the majority destroyed. This has been a long term strategy, demonizing government and unions which stand in the way of their plutocratic utopia. Each crisis that results from a previous crisis they created, they use to carve off rights, freedom and finances from the majority that they then shove in their own pocket.
What’s happening in WI makes this crystal clear. The same people who profited from and caused the economic collapse, are now saying that because the economy is troubled for some unknown reason, the solution is giving them more tax money and taking it from working Americans (from whom they’ve already robbed of home equity and retirement money).
Meanwhile, most Americans can’t afford not to have government and a fully funded social system, public schools, Medicare, SS, etc.
There is not a morally acceptable argument for Exxon and Bank of America to take advantage of this nation’s infrastructure and all of its citizens (i.e., heavy Exxon tanker trucks use and destroy our federally funded highways) while paying $o in taxes but there is a rational one. Greed, camouflaged as “capitalism”.
So, using the issue of taxes just to illustrate, we are in a mercenary war with the wealthy. They want to horde and build greater piles of money for themselves and have planned to accommodate that by crushing social funding such as education. Meanwhile, they want to bleed “the peasants” by making them pay a greater and greater share of total tax revenues to fund everything while also forcing them to subsidize their wealth and that of their corporations through tax cuts just for them.
And consider the outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries. This works two-fold in their war against Americans. First, the wealthy slash their expense of manufacturing and greatly increase their profit margin, then have all of this subsidized by the workers they’ve fired because on unemployment income, they can only afford to buy cheaper things made in China and sold at Walmart. Secondly, the exporting of jobs has created a huge pool of available workers which allows the wealthy to offer lower wages and worse or no benefits for jobs that can require twice the work as before (“Hey, if you don’t want this job, there are plenty of people out there who would.”)
So, in this aspect of the Class War the wealthy are engaged in, they have weakened unions, made their workers more compliant and desperate to work at lower wages for providing more labor. Shrinking wages have also forced people to bury themselves in debt so by buying things on credit cards, they end up giving more and more of what pay they do get back to the wealthy in the form of interest and fees. And the kicker is that by becoming buried in debt, they become even more willing to be treated and paid poorly to keep their job and pay their ever-growing bills. A vicious cycle indeed, created by some very vicious people.
This is a war and we have been losing it. Now, it has reached a new and more dangerous phase. The wealthy now have control in many states and in the House. They are now totally free to spend unlimited billions to fight and win this war and though some Americans are stepping up, the American People by and large are just looking around bewildered as their wealth and power in this democracy are being annexed by the wealthy.
The attacks on our society by the wealthy can’t be stopped by individuals acting alone, the wealthy have too many resources as well as the whole commercial and much of the political infrastructure to use against Americans. We MUST come together to push them back, on the internet through this site and others, through social networking like Facebook and Twitter but ultimately as we witnessed, Egypt only overthrew their domination by taking physical action and getting in the streets. We need to do it all.
Our fellow citizens in WI, OH and elsewhere are fighting this war with limited resources, they need us to join their ranks because they ARE us. This same attack on working Americans is coming to your state soon and if the wealthy get momentum from crushing The American People in WI and OH, they will come to your state with even more confidence, energy and force.
Previous generations had their moments to put aside what divided them and come together to fight for this nation and it’s future. Now is our time to make the decision and make the commitment, to accept our duty to past generations of Americans who fought for the freedoms and the benefits we stand to lose now. It’s time for us to do the same as they did for our future generations, to invest our time and energy in protecting what America is, spending a day joining a protest here and there, reaching out in person or over the internet to others to inform them and encourage them to become involved, communicating with our elected officials about what we expect of them if they want to continue representing us and much more.
Though it was not of our choosing, we are in a war with a force that seeks to destroy the America that has been and that we believe in. This war is real and being fought each and every day. If we choose at this moment in history to step up and confront this threat together as fellow Americans, there is no question that we will prevail and so will all the aspirations and values we all share.
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Yes, I do.
People who pay no taxes have no personal investment in the future of our country. They don't care as long as "they get theirs", regardless of what it costs other to pay for their benefits.
There are a lot of people who should consider themselves lucky that I am not absolute dictator over this country. I would make sure that every able bodied person who wanted to work, had some sort of job. If they are going to collect benefits, they will work for them. The tax system would be restructured so that success is not penalized. If I had to use tax credits, I would use them to incentivize job creation only. Those who strive for a better life would find live beautiful in my monarchy. Those who want to take and take, and never contribute a second of their life to their own support will have problems. Sorry ..... but ya gotta grow up sometime.
Way I figure it, about half the country would love me, and about half would hate me. That's about right for any politician today, except I would have the power to actually change things ..... and change things, I would.
I would vote for you, knowing full well you'd be assassinated by noon on Inauguration Day.
This Nation doesn't want change,...it just wants.
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Yahoo! Finance: The Middle Class in America Is Radically Shrinking. Here Are the Stats to Prove it
The Business Insider
The 22 statistics detailed here prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the middle class is being systematically wiped out of existence in America.
The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer at a staggering rate. Once upon a time, the United States had the largest and most prosperous middle class in the history of the world, but now that is changing at a blinding pace.
So why are we witnessing such fundamental changes? Well, the globalism and "free trade" that our politicians and business leaders insisted would be so good for us have had some rather nasty side effects. It turns out that they didn't tell us that the "global economy" would mean that middle class American workers would eventually have to directly compete for jobs with people on the other side of the world where there is no minimum wage and very few regulations. The big global corporations have greatly benefited by exploiting third world labor pools over the last several decades, but middle class American workers have increasingly found things to be very tough.
Here are the statistics to prove it:
• 83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.
• 61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.
• 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.
• 36 percent of Americans say that they don't contribute anything to retirement savings.
• A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.
• 24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.
• Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.
• Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.
• For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.
• In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.
• As of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.
• The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.
• Average Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008.
• In the United States, the average federal worker now earns 60% MORE than the average worker in the private sector.
• The top 1 percent of U.S. households own nearly twice as much of America's corporate wealth as they did just 15 years ago.
• In America today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks.
• More than 40 percent of Americans who actually are employed are now working in service jobs, which are often very low paying.
• or the first time in U.S. history, more than 40 million Americans are on food stamps, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that number will go up to 43 million Americans in 2011.
• This is what American workers now must compete against: in China a garment worker makes approximately 86 cents an hour and in Cambodia a garment worker makes approximately 22 cents an hour.
• Approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 - the highest rate in 20 years.
• Despite the financial crisis, the number of millionaires in the United States rose a whopping 16 percent to 7.8 million in 2009.
• The top 10 percent of Americans now earn around 50 percent of our national income.
Giant Sucking Sound
The reality is that no matter how smart, how strong, how educated or how hard working American workers are, they just cannot compete with people who are desperate to put in 10 to 12 hour days at less than a dollar an hour on the other side of the world. After all, what corporation in their right mind is going to pay an American worker 10 times more (plus benefits) to do the same job? The world is fundamentally changing. Wealth and power are rapidly becoming concentrated at the top and the big global corporations are making massive amounts of money. Meanwhile, the American middle class is being systematically wiped out of existence as U.S. workers are slowly being merged into the new "global" labor pool.
What do most Americans have to offer in the marketplace other than their labor? Not much. The truth is that most Americans are absolutely dependent on someone else giving them a job. But today, U.S. workers are "less attractive" than ever. Compared to the rest of the world, American workers are extremely expensive, and the government keeps passing more rules and regulations seemingly on a monthly basis that makes it even more difficult to conduct business in the United States.
So corporations are moving operations out of the U.S. at breathtaking speed. Since the U.S. government does not penalize them for doing so, there really is no incentive for them to stay.
What has developed is a situation where the people at the top are doing quite well, while most Americans are finding it increasingly difficult to make it. There are now about six unemployed Americans for every new job opening in the United States, and the number of "chronically unemployed" is absolutely soaring. There simply are not nearly enough jobs for everyone.
Many of those who are able to get jobs are finding that they are making less money than they used to. In fact, an increasingly large percentage of Americans are working at low wage retail and service jobs.
But you can't raise a family on what you make flipping burgers at McDonald's or on what you bring in from greeting customers down at the local Wal-Mart.
The truth is that the middle class in America is dying -- and once it is gone it will be incredibly difficult to rebuild.
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Compared to the rest of the world, American workers are extremely expensive, and the government keeps passing more rules and regulations seemingly on a monthly basis that makes it even more difficult to conduct business in the United States.
....and therein lies the problem.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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mac, there is some troubling stuff in there, I won't dispute that.. but some of it needs to be qualified... Quote:
61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.
Is this because the middle class is disappearing or is this because people just spend too much freakin' money? Because they have houses that are too big, cars that are too expensive, take vacations that are too expensive, etc?
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36 percent of Americans say that they don't contribute anything to retirement savings.
See comment above.
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A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.
Don't need it. Social Security and medicare will provide for them.
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24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.
This is not due to a systematic destruction of the middle class, this is due to the last 2 or 3 years in the financial markets and peoples fears of the future.
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For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.
I'm not 100% clear on what "residential housing net worth" is.... but if it is due to foreclosures which happened because of the popping of the housing bubble at the end of a period of unprecedented growth brought on by government intervention falsely creating an unsustainable market.. Blame this one almost entirely on the federal government.
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In America today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks.
Another stat being measured at the worst possible time..
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In the United States, the average federal worker now earns 60% MORE than the average worker in the private sector.
And the number of federal workers is growing rapidly... gosh, who should we blame this one on?
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Despite the financial crisis, the number of millionaires in the United States rose a whopping 16 percent to 7.8 million in 2009.
Not sure what to make of this one... so the number of low end rich (and yes, being a "millionaire" these days puts you at the very low end of the scale for what is considered rich) but that group is growing rapidly.. huh, interesting.
So, like I said, some of this is troubling, the income stats are troubling but a lot of these number seem to be taken at the very worst time. Had you asked a bunch of these questions 3 or 4 years ago you would have gotten remarkably different results.. so I think the article has some valid points but in an effort to make those points has reached for some statistics which are temporary and don't really lead to the point...
yebat' Putin
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.. Are America's Best Days Behind Us? ..
.. Yep !
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In spirit, I agree with Mac many times.
It's just the way he gets there or goes with it I don't agree more often then not.
Yes, this countries best days are 20-30 years in the past....and the last 20-30 years are what led to today.
Things will forever be far different.
This is a wide open country. A nation on wheels as was said. Well, that is what is going to screw us for the next 30 years.
My Dad was a partner in a fabrication business in Cleveland. Employed a couple of hundred people for 30 years or so.
Welders, erectors, machinists, equipment operators, drivers, engineers, pipe fitters, bookkeepers, secretaries, receptionists, even a dozen or so local flunkies who asked for jobs, tried hard, and swept floors, went for donuts, watched gates etc.
It was always a non union floor because his partner and he agreed to pay a better then fair wages and benefits. People who talked union got run out of the shop.
He told me many things that have stuck over the years, but this is #1. He said it is hard to do business with people who don't have money.
We have too many people with no money.
JMO....learned from my Dad
Last edited by Ballpeen; 03/17/11 08:45 PM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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We can't be a "have our cake and eat it too" nation, especially when every other country in the world is just starting to burst onto their tech dreams, thieir industrial revolutions, their fights to make *gasp* .... pennies ... a day. While we have people crying foul about not being able to only work a 40 hour per week job, and they have people willing to put in 10 to 12 per day with no weekends.
We have arrived at the beginning of a shakeout. Many will remain unaffected, but the standard of living in our country will fall. People won't own a house 5 times their annual income anymore, people won't buy the brand new car every 2nd or 3rd year, people won't go out to eat every other night ...
Things are going to be different especially because we only have 300 some million here ... China has a billion more than us at 1.3 billion and India has 1.15 billion.
What jobs (without trying to act like a fear mongerer) are truly "safe?" Any manufacturing can be done for pennies on the dollar in other countries. Many services have already started to be outsourced overseas.
The definition of what an individuals pay is ... is what their economic cost is and how much it takes to replace them. So long story short, if you are doing a job for 50k ... and someone (anyone... whether in California, New York, India, or ushbefyb-istan) wants to do it for 20k ... if they can provide the same service and quality ... your company would be a fool to keep you on.
So the only thing we have over them right now is education ... until you look at our country's test averages in high school compared to the rest of the world.
Just be open to moving to a new country in the next few decades ... because for some of us "younger" dawgs, the U.S. might not be the same that it once was in another 25 or 50 years.
Now I could be wrong ... but if life is still cushy then I would be more than happy to admit I was wrong.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Things are going to be different especially because we only have 300 some million here ... China has a billion more than us at 1.3 billion and India has 1.15 billion.
This is a big part of the problem,....it's not that we don't have the numbers those countries do -- if that was your point --
It's that we have TOO many.
Like 'Peen said "when this started 30 years ago" -- I say it started 40-50 years ago.
When I was 6 years old, there weren't even 181 million people living in this country. And a million of them lived in the Steel Valley.
Now, we have 300 milllion (+) and no industry to support them.
We have kicked our own selves in the teeth.
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Sorry to chime in late here.
As somebody who is earning a graduate degree in Special Education, I have been immersed in some of the issues regarding funding in education.
From students to professors, most people I have been around feel that the problem is teachers who have been tenured. - They collect a big paycheck, get great benefits, and could care less whether their students do well. - These old folks are a big part of the problem.
I write this with all due respect: Baby Boomers need to be forced into retirment in all areas of employment. - Especially those who have public sector jobs. It's time for some fresh bodies and minds at the heads of our classrooms. - This can't happen as long as baby boomers continue to take up space simply because they collect a paycheck without having to do any real work.
There are other issues as well. From my observations during field experience at a local Cleveland High School: Some students have no interest in learning -they show up when the want to, and are almost always late, or a distraction in class.- What do we do with them? Under the IDEA, Special Education must be offered by the school district in the least restrictive learning environment. - If Special Education cannot be provided by the school district, then it is the school district's responsibility to find and pay for special education services for the student. - Granted, the IDEA was originally meant to take care of students who were physically or intensively disabled, however this all changed when the 504 plan rolled out. - The 504 plan offered the protection of the IDEA to students who were not as severely disabled. - The 504 plan offers protection to students with learning disabilities, emotional disturbance, and disorders such as ADHD, and Aspberger's syndrome. - School districts have to accomodate students who fall into these categories.- And school districts get additional funding to support these students. - Your tax dollars at work.
After observing a special ed. class in the CMSD this semester, my observations are as follows:
- Special Ed teachers cannot hold the concentration of students when their classes are constantly interrupted by students coming in late.
- Most special ed students only report to the special ed classroom for content areas that the struggle in. Fifty minutes per schoolday is not enough time for a Special Ed teacher to work with student who struggles in a content area.
- Students who are in need of special ed do not do a good job of heeding their teachers' advice for learning and reading/writing strategy.
Changing gears here. Last weekend, I volunteered to assist students get some studying completed for the proficiency tests that they must pass in order to graduate. I asked the students to review the following topics that they can expect to see on the Gov't portion of the test: Monarchy, Dictatorship, Democracy,Theocracy.
I worked with two students. They told me that Dictatorship is "like Hitler" and that Democracy is "people get to choose". - I told them they were right, but asked them if the understood anything else about these terms. - Of course they didn't, all they were doing was memorizing tidbits of information.
In order to get them to understand the core concepts of these terms, I showed them how to create and use webs as tools. I drew a web an input "Forms of Government" in the center. I connected "Dictatorship" to forms of government, and from there I connected "Imperialism" and "Hitler" - Then I did a couple more forms of government and explained to them that they must understand the core of the concepts first, and then they can branch out to the periphery, and that if they understood how all of the concepts relate, then reading and writing about the assigned topics will be much easier.
Do you guys know how these two students responded? After sitting with me for five minutes they both said that they had to leave. - Welcome to teaching. - Problems like this will only get solved with poised, energetic, hungry educators who are determined to make change. - We need younger, more ambitious teachers, and we need a little more latitude when it comes to disciplining students.
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Quote:
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Things are going to be different especially because we only have 300 some million here ... China has a billion more than us at 1.3 billion and India has 1.15 billion.
This is a big part of the problem,....it's not that we don't have the numbers those countries do -- if that was your point --
It's that we have TOO many.
Like 'Peen said "when this started 30 years ago" -- I say it started 40-50 years ago.
When I was 6 years old, there weren't even 181 million people living in this country. And a million of them lived in the Steel Valley.
Now, we have 300 milllion (+) and no industry to support them.
We have kicked our own selves in the teeth.
I was going to say 40 years or so, but since most around here aren't 40 I didn't figure it would resonate.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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general reply... the only thing wrong with the country imo is the stupid federal reserve, and corporations. The federal reserve has been printing money like mad since we went off the gold standard in 1971 or so....more money causes inflation....which just screws everything up...prices go up...people spending power goes down....they want more money in the form of raises...so costs go up...ect. corporations have destroyed most small businesses....between the stock market, and the endless quest for profit, they have destroyed most of the jobs in this country... as far as out-sourcing to other countries goes, its total bs....you want to avoid taxes, environmental protections, and treat workers like little more than slaves, then pay the tariff to bring your product back here to sell....otherwise try another STATE....50 little countries right in the USA....global economy is bs...when everyone plays by the same rules..then fine....until then how about we protect our own.... heck you can even add the media...owned by the same 2 problems listed above....with there endless propaganda.... Way back when i was in college i remember reading 2 of the worst books ever....one was the "nazi seizure of power" and the other was "the rise and fall of the roman empire" they were both long boring and sucked....now that i'm alittle older i can see their point. the nazi seizure of power was all stats (which suck ) and told how propaganda was used to control the german population.... the rise and fall of the roman empire was about how rome expanded its empire too fair, de-based its currency to try and pay for it and collapsed from within... Endless propaganda....check de-based currency...check USA an empire....check Maybe we should just stick to that Constitution thing... damn i'm pissed and didn't even know it 
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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The federal reserve has been printing money like mad since we went off the gold standard in 1971 or so....more money causes inflation....which just screws everything up...prices go up...people spending power goes down....they want more money in the form of raises...so costs go up...ect.
So does raising the minimum wage and creating artificial price floors ... but you're not wrong...just expect inflation after every time you see a new minimum wage enacted.
Also, we got off the gold standard because it only allows a finite amount of money to be in the system. If we only have a finite amount of gold in the banks, then we cannot even have enough cash in the money supply to fluidly or efficiently pay for things. Even if we could make it work (which I'm not saying we couldn't, I'm just saying it's doubtful), then as the population continues to rise, the amount of money stays the same, and theoretically the wealth of the nation only improves if we find vast supplies of gold ...
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corporations have destroyed most small businesses....between the stock market, and the endless quest for profit, they have destroyed most of the jobs in this country...
theoretically, they have allowed individuals to be able to purchase multiple goods. They have allowed for the mass production of anything from food to cars to housing materials to medicine and drugs. The corporations themselves aren't the problem, what is the problem is that too many people just want to "fall in line" instead of coming up with the next best idea and making it on there own... after that you and me could go back and forth (possibly) and it would parellel different ways of solving the problems already on the board.
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as far as out-sourcing to other countries goes, its total bs....you want to avoid taxes, environmental protections, and treat workers like little more than slaves, then pay the tariff to bring your product back here to sell....otherwise try another STATE....50 little countries right in the USA....global economy is bs...when everyone plays by the same rules..then fine....until then how about we protect our own....
The problem is 2 fold. #1 ... you wouldn't pay for the same good or service in let's say toledo as you would in youngstown (just two random cities) if one of them was charging as much as ten or twenty times more for the same project in the same way that you wouldn't go to Starbucks and pay $5.00 for a coffee if the local circle K was offering the same recipe for $1.00 ... you might feel special or loyal to the starbucks ... but after a while it doesn't make ANY sense if it's the same good or service. People flock to cheap prices ... see any neighborhood WalMart. So why would anyone pay Worker A $20.00 per hour plus safety, plus benefits, plus have to fund a pension, plus give him overtime after 40 hours, plus have to give him breaks, plus have to supply PPE, plus have to ...(you get the idea) when Worker B is a fixed rate investment of building a new plant overseas ... then paying him a flat $20 per WEEK. Nothing else included. Who do you choose? One way might make you feel nice, and the other way keeps you employed when the board finds out you cut spending.
The second way goes to the idea that we need more from other nations yes ... but we NEED other nations far more than we realize. Look up the GDP and Export numbers (I could find it if you would like) ... the second that we hit a country with a tariff...they do it right back and once again put our workers out of business.
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heck you can even add the media...owned by the same 2 problems listed above....with there endless propaganda....
Agreed
Lol look I agree with your frustration if nothing else. The point is that whether or not we like it .. just like America became a hungry superpower in the industrial revolution with people that would FIGHT to get jobs, work in factorys, and even get IN to the country ... we have become complacent as a nation. Most people would rather fight for the status quo than to improve if improving meant doing more work.
The problem is, with our complacency, it comes at a time when other nations are on the rise and hitting their industrial ages. They can churn out anything we can (manufacturing wise) almost as fast if not faster, almost as efficient if not more efficient ... and they do it for pennies on the dollar. If we stay the same we will get overpassed.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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From students to professors, most people I have been around feel that the problem is teachers who have been tenured. - They collect a big paycheck, get great benefits, and could care less whether their students do well. - These old folks are a big part of the problem.
I don't know how much of a burden you are suggesting lies specifically on tenured professors ... but it is a situation that parallels that of pension workers. I find it interesting that people make promises to workers yet are forced to pay the burden later in time. Not so much saying anything as I'm just trying to openly draw the correlation...
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I write this with all due respect: Baby Boomers need to be forced into retirment in all areas of employment. - Especially those who have public sector jobs. It's time for some fresh bodies and minds at the heads of our classrooms. - This can't happen as long as baby boomers continue to take up space simply because they collect a paycheck without having to do any real work.
I disagree ... I don't think you should be able to "force" anyone to retire. I would argue the exact opposite in fact. Provide no support to anyone to retire unless they can afford it themselves (or have some pension plan or what have you). By forcing people to retire then you would most likely have to pay their benefits and would see a large swing of deductions from total GDP and overall "assets" of the country in the forms of their ability to contribute, to more of a burden on society because you have forced them all into retirement.
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Some students have no interest in learning -they show up when the want to, and are almost always late, or a distraction in class.- What do we do with them?
it's complacency in society. People don't care about the problem and would rather pass it on. Parents pass their kids onto teachers, who pass them onto special needs who pass them onto guidance and then administration ... Maybe we need to implement something that FORCES kids to do well in school? If they don't make the grades they work in factories as punishment afterschool. That will show them that unless they get an education, this is all they will do for the rest of their lives. Make them be janitors, or do community service work ... something that actually shows them it's not easy if they don't have an education... not offering specific answers, but we need to deter them somehow.
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Changing gears here. Last weekend, I volunteered to assist students get some studying completed for the proficiency tests that they must pass in order to graduate. I asked the students to review the following topics that they can expect to see on the Gov't portion of the test: Monarchy, Dictatorship, Democracy,Theocracy.
I worked with two students. They told me that Dictatorship is "like Hitler" and that Democracy is "people get to choose". - I told them they were right, but asked them if the understood anything else about these terms. - Of course they didn't, all they were doing was memorizing tidbits of information.
In order to get them to understand the core concepts of these terms, I showed them how to create and use webs as tools. I drew a web an input "Forms of Government" in the center. I connected "Dictatorship" to forms of government, and from there I connected "Imperialism" and "Hitler" - Then I did a couple more forms of government and explained to them that they must understand the core of the concepts first, and then they can branch out to the periphery, and that if they understood how all of the concepts relate, then reading and writing about the assigned topics will be much easier.
Do you guys know how these two students responded? After sitting with me for five minutes they both said that they had to leave. - Welcome to teaching. - Problems like this will only get solved with poised, energetic, hungry educators who are determined to make change. - We need younger, more ambitious teachers, and we need a little more latitude when it comes to disciplining students.
It sounds like you are suggesting (don't let me put words in your mouth however) we have people who are too complacent to even do their own jobs...
I would argue that it's not everywhere, but it's in a lot of places.
Maybe we need to go back to some sort of "apprenticeship" systems in society where kids (instead of spending almost half of the year on break, whether weekends, summer school, hollidays, etc). need to start putting in time in different segments of society. They can intern all through their high school years and work at discounted rates. Get exposure as to what they will deal with in the future and actually learn skills in order to prepare them for the real world?
I think the overall thing to remember is that these kids aren't the problem. They are a symptom of a much larger problem of people who are more willing to complain, protest, strike, and overall just whine about problems rather than stopping them at the core themselves.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,960
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,960 |
Well, you would have to define "best"
Not living it, I think I would have like to grow up during the 60's or 70's, so I might say "Americas best days are behind us"
Best is far too relative a term
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
So you weren't born in 1946 ? Your screen name is for the Browns origination date,.....I thought it might have been your birth year,...
I try to make the best of (what few of) the days I think I have left, but growing up in the 60's or 70's was no pancake walk. I'm just talking in terms of social pressure(s). The key is in having known then what you know now, or at least have had someone teaching you/us/me the finer points.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
I don't think 20-30 years is enough. I don't think 40 years is enough. I would go back to the New Deal, the Great Depression of the 1930s as one of the big points in our history where this "collective" mentality started.. I do think that in the last 30 years it has really taken root and I think as the demographics changed with people having fewer kids, the baby boomers nearing, now reaching, retirement, people living longer.. I think that is the tipping point at which it rapidly became totally unsustainable
yebat' Putin
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Are America's Best Days Behind Us?
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