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Wow, I really thought we'd sign Fraley already. I wonder if we're looing at Kalil?
That is a great possiblity. Kalil is a supposed 2nd rounder.............I would love to see Kalil to play in 2007. Just to see how well he would hold up against Sam Adams and Casey Hampton...
Kalil in the 2ND 
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Actually Merth .. we agree on more than that .. 1. we agree this isnt the problem Clearly, the problem *must* be that the Browns haven't tried ENOUGH guys under center. .. nice sarcasm by the way ... made me smile .. 2. we agree that ... What is it when called when you attempt the same thing over and over but hope for a different result? Oh, yeah... it is called stupidity. .. so we actually agree on even more than u think ..  2 things .. 1. I noticed u didnt touch on my comment about us not being able to fix the OL if we dotn take Joe at #1 .. why's that??  but MORE IMPORTANTLY to this most recent post .. 2. look at that list of QB's .. where have they ever had any SUCCESS .. NO WHERE ... why? cause they could play behind Jones/LG from Pitt(his name slips my mind)/Kruetz/Shileds/Anderson and still STINK ... seriously ... we've put a bunch of BUMS behind Center ... seriously ... Couch was never given a chance to suceed so we'll never know .... Garia was put into a HORRIBLE SYSTEM he would never thrive in .. but the rest?? *LOL* .. TALENTLESS BUMS .. the proof?/ they never did ANYTHING ANYWHERE and were all late 1st day or 2nd day picks .. look bro .. our OL has been dismall .. no doubt .. HORRENDOUS would be a good word .. WORST IN FOOTBALL over the last 7 years would be a statement i couldn't argue with .. BUT .. our QB's have also been a COLLECTION of STIFFS AND BUMS .. I would NEVER stick up for our OL .. but please don't tell me that ANY OF THESE BUMS (sans POSSIBLY Timid and Garcia inthe right system) would ahve done anything anyhow .. quite frankly that collection of QB's is a bigger pile of crap than our OL have been .. and thats not easy to do ..  BQ would be by far the best QB we've and here .. and we have to FIX THE OL REGARDLESS OF WHO THE QB IS .. 
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Wow, Diam you didn't eat your wheaties today or something. I hear what you are saying, but I think you are missing the point as well. Your rundown of his skill set for us vs other teams are good, but we have a HUGE need. You want to go back to the center shuffle? How easy was it to find a center last year? We lucked out getting him. Also saying that the reason people want Hank here is because Danielle posts sometimes is insulting. I would have thought more of you.
Last edited by AkBrownsfan; 02/28/07 06:16 PM.
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Don't let the door hit ya in the butt Hank.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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I agree on many levels...
Fraley isn't a Center that can one on one handle a Ngata/Hampton...
Fraley is a temporary seat until Bentley comes back...And he should be paid accordingly...We cannot pay him MARKET Value when he can START elsewhere and be a Temp Starter here...
We can't ink Fraley long term at Starter money...THAT WOULD BE STUPID...He'll be on the bench in 2008 and beyond at Starter $$$...DUMB...And he IS NOT A GUARD FOLKS...He's way 2 light in the ass to even think about trying at G...
We brought Bents here for a reason...Handle these FAT ASSES in the middle ONE ON ONE...
Who's the alternative???...No clue yet...But if we're looking at a ONE YEAR SUB till Bents comes back???...Beef up the Interior and use Smith if need be...
IMO Fraley's GONE cause he'll get more $$$ on the open market to START LONG TERM...And I don't blame em'...Why take less for 1 yr of starting when u can be THE MAN elsewhere...
Go Browns!!!
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DnD,
Just a couple of comments.
Can you name 5 NFL centers who can "handle" Casey Hampton one on one? Not too many out there.
Also while many of your points are valid, much of your reasoning is based on the assumption that Bentley will be a productive player in 08. Unfortunately, that is still an unknown.
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Everybody is making two potentially diasaterous assumptions... # 1. Bentley will be back. # 2. If Bentley comes back, he will be as good as he ever was. Those are two assumptions we can not afford to make. Everyone thought Bentley would be back in '07, but now we know he won't be... and no one knows about '08.... Any major knee surgery, especially surgery with a TWO YEAR RECOVERY period, a possibility on NO RETURN, should be considered, as well as a possibility of an impaired return.... picture Bentley not being able to push Diam around, much less Hampton or Adams... If we don't resign Hank, a known commodity, we'd almost have to go after a center in the draft.....an unproven rookie.... Right now, I prefer the known commodity....
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Half back 32, thanks for bringing that up about Bentley, so I didn't have to and some other points.
1) the escalation in the trade with Philly to acquire Hank in the first place could be a factor
2) Rob Smith may be good to go....
All the other points I could make were already made
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# 1. Bentley will be back.
# 2. If Bentley comes back, he will be as good as he ever was.
Those are two assumptions we can not afford to make.
We're in a bind here...And Savage knows it...
Until we know 4 sure about Bentley next year we will not sign any high dollar Center...It just makes SENSE...
There's 2 GREAT Centers in the NFL...Now that Hartings retired...Kruetz and Bentley...The rest are AVG at best...
5 to handle Hampton???
1) Gurode
2) Bentley
3) Kruetz
It's not about Fraley being here...It's about the $$$ he's wanting that I'd bet anything WE WON'T PAY...
Fraley's GONE imo
Go Browns!!!
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I hope he isn't....but you and diam and others could be way more right than wrong. I don't want to break the bank either, but what sense would it make to pay TONS to either Dielman or Stienbach if we have a crappy center? It just sucks not being able to know what he expects, and what the browns are offering. I think some of you are correct that other teams with other needs may overpay him, but to a point we (the Browns ...the losing franchis...the staph infections....the lame duck (maybe) coach) will have to overpay just about anybody.
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I'd hate to see hank go... I really would have liked to see what he could do in our system 2nd year... when he isn't thinking anymore and he's just blocking....
Meh.
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*LOL* ... he is BY FAR the MOST OVERRATED player ever on this or the old board ... the power of having his wife post here is unbelievable ...
sorry guys .. just like wearing a brown helmet hasn't made others better .. hanks wife posting here doesn't make him any better ..
Signing Hank is no wheres near as IMPORTANT as most of u make it out to be .. it has to be the RIGHT CONTRACT for us to do it ..
I think Diam may be right on the money here, but not because he said it. 
Just judge the actions of the FO. They knew about LCB a long time ago, they didn't get anything done. They still don't have anything done.
Action speak louder than words...and the actions of the FO are consistent with this line of thinking.
offers are going back and forth........... they've been trying to sign Hank and we've been trying to re-sign. Its about numbers and its not simple.
I love how some people hang on the quote of a reporter who has no clue what is going on.
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We neeeeeeed Hank... no way around it.
<><
#gmstrong
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Don't give up. I'm sure there is a middle ground.
Fraley in 08!
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I agree with you here..to an extent...I don´t think he´s the most overrated on this board....I think most know what we have/have not in him but I agree that he isn´t a perfect fit...I really like him and would like him getting re-signed just for consistency but he´s not the top C in FA, ironically I think O´Hara is (and every FA-site I´ve ssen ranks him higher than Hank)...and he fits what our division better..grunt style What nobody seems to think since we have so many needs...maybe we draft a C or C/G guy....C+G are pretty deep in this years draft and the Browns obviously like Kalil (would be round 2)...Samson Satele is another 1 I would think about in round 3, Beekman C/G type in round 3, Kyle Young in round 4 or 5 could be a real steal btw: in this profile on nfl.com Satele is compared to LeCharles Bentley  http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/satele_samson
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We brought Bents here for a reason...Handle these FAT ASSES in the middle ONE ON ONE...
If Bents can still do so after 2 surgeries and 2 years out of football. I think some people are over estimating what he is going to bring back to the table, if he can make it back.
just something to think about
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Hey Danielle, I just want to say thanks from a Browns fan. I've been posting on forums for years of my favorite sports franchises and I've never seen a player's wife just go to a board and mingle like a fan and give the fans the real deal on the info... all that with 3 kids under 3 (God bless ya girl). I hope your family gets to stay with this organization, eventually it will get back to the glory days of the past.
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I'm with ya, Heat. No matter what happens, Danielle, we all appreciate you coming around here and filling us in with insider info, and just generally being a good poster.
That being said, I hope we re-sign Hank because I think he'd fit in well here. He held his own last year, and if Bentley comes back and is still a stud, then we can move him or Hank to guard and our OL becomes that much more solid.
Tell Hank we want him back!
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
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We brought Bents here for a reason...Handle these FAT ASSES in the middle ONE ON ONE...
If Bents can still do so after 2 surgeries and 2 years out of football. I think some people are over estimating what he is going to bring back to the table, if he can make it back.
just something to think about
That just sinks my Browns depression that much more if we lose Hank.
Who else is there if he goes? That's my open ended question to everyone. Rob Smith is NOT THE GUY, folks, and we're gonna have to draft a first day guard in the first place, we can't draft a guard and a center and expect both to start week one and be effective.
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That just sinks my Browns depression that much more if we lose Hank.
Who else is there if he goes? That's my open ended question to everyone. Rob Smith is NOT THE GUY.
so true so true...
Meh.
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That just sinks my Browns depression that much more if we lose Hank.
Im afraid, I really am. Phil says he has a plan and that he has this team heading in the right direction. What I see is a team that is going to be doomed for another losing season. If that happens we all know what its going to be from there. I dont know if I can handle another gutting of the team of a new regime.
We have soooo many holes and just cant see how we can fill them all without leaving one or two wide open. Not signing Hank just adds another hole to the sinking ship IMO.
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*LOL* ... he is BY FAR the MOST OVERRATED player ever on this or the old board ... the power of having his wife post here is unbelievable ...
sorry guys .. just like wearing a brown helmet hasn't made others better .. hanks wife posting here doesn't make him any better ..
Signing Hank is no wheres near as IMPORTANT as most of u make it out to be .. it has to be the RIGHT CONTRACT for us to do it ..
I think Diam may be right on the money here, but not because he said it.
Just judge the actions of the FO. They knew about LCB a long time ago, they didn't get anything done. They still don't have anything done.
Action speak louder than words...and the actions of the FO are consistent with this line of thinking.
offers are going back and forth........... they've been trying to sign Hank and we've been trying to re-sign. Its about numbers and its not simple.
I love how some people hang on the quote of a reporter who has no clue what is going on.
Hey Danielle, I hope you didn't take offense to my post. I am one of those who want Hank back.
But I'm left scratching my head as to why this wasn't done earlier. I know you said in another post that they were waiting for the new coaches to come in, but that sounds like they were paying lip service to you guys.
In the absence of really knowing what's going on, I can only judge on the actions of the FO. So I hope I didn't offend...
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If Bents can still do so after 2 surgeries and 2 years out of football. I think some people are over estimating what he is going to bring back to the table, if he can make it back.
just something to think about
thats a good point .... and very very valid ... so what are u suggesting just give up on bents and we sign Hank to a 3 or 4 or 5 year deal that your looking for at close to what u want?? Gee .. i wonder why U would want that ..
Regardless of weather Bents comes back or not .. it doesn't make Hanks skill set any better for this division .... sorry it just dont ..
I said its not near as simple as most wanna make it out to be and theres a reason for that .. its just a TOUGH SITUATION ... u having fun yet?? *L* ..
when u said its about #'s .. that could mean alot of things .. does that mean SB/Total SSS Package/Total Gauranteed/years/more frontloading of the contract(another words they agree on the total $$ and the # of years jsut need to move more $$ up front) ... what does that mean ... and i'm sure u cant answer that now .. nor do i expect u to .. just would like u to clarify when Hank is signed here or somewhere else ..
Good luck with this Danielle .. U seem like a good egg .. i hope it works out for U and Hank and u get what u want either here or somewhere else .. it may not make me happy .. but thats OK as its not my life and livelyhood .. so Good Luck and I hope u guys are happy no matter what happens ..
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Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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Danielle...my only suggestion would be to go after the money and secure your family's future, I mean it's just good sense. Hope Hank returns to the team, but if not I am sure things will work out. good luck.
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when u said its about #'s .. that could mean alot of things ..
Yeah, like what in the Hell are we doing trying to pay him in a currency that England doesn't use anymore?!?!
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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That just sinks my Browns depression that much more if we lose Hank.
Who else is there if he goes? That's my open ended question to everyone. Rob Smith is NOT THE GUY.
so true so true...
How do you guys know for certain that "Rob Smith is NOT THE GUY" ???
He is an UDFA just like Fraley and that Dielman fellow that everyone wants soooo badly. Smith may only need a little time to develope into a starter. And I hope that some of you remove your lips from that poor woman's posterior sometime soon. 
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LOL, Wow Diam, you sure changed your attitude when addressing Danelle didn't ya.... It's ok, I understand.. it's always better to be respectful,, Always.. Only one question for you however.. would you make the comments you make when face to face with someone? I mean, would you make the "Most OVERATED" comment directly to her face? If so, then I guess it's fair to do it on here.. If not,,, well... you know 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Good daman, I'm glad I'm not the only who can see through Diam's posts. Sorry Diam, but he's right. All of the sudden, Hank's wife shows up and it's all "Yeah, we love Hank!!" "We want Hank back!!" "He's the best!" . Please. Hank is here as a stop gap and we all know it. Granted, we DO need him but only because we have no other alternative at this point. I think letting him test the market is a brilliant move. Go ahead Hank, see what you can get from another team. Oh, and see if you'll be their starting center in September too. One of two things will happen come FA: Either Hank will get more money than we're offering to play as a backup somewhere else or he will stay here for less than he wants and be our starter for at least one more year. It's really a question of what he wants more. And unfortunately for us, money does the talking in the NFL. Although, I doubt that anyone will overpay for him to be a backup, so I see him in the Orange & Brown again but he's not gonna be happy.
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So,you're insinuating that Diam shouldn't tell us his thoughts on Hank because Danielle posts here?You would have a tough time around my family.
I'm pretty certain he knows Danielle is on here,yet he still is honest about his assesment,unlike 80% of others,eho would be calling Hank a bum and saying good riddence,without Danielle here.
Now,I love Hank's hustle,and would like to see him resigned.With two decent guards around him,we could have a pretty good running game.He isn't LCB,but he isn't Melvin Fowler either.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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man i cant believe some of these posts. Fraley had a very good year despite playing between Druzzi and Coleman. Now I do think the Browns are looking to add better run blocking and bulk to the interior but you cant say anything negative about Fraley's play. I think he was a huge upgrade over Faine and we were very lucky to get the guy in here and frankly he was our best linemen last year.
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What I don't get is everybody saying he would be a one year player IF LCB comes back. LCB can also play at either right or left guard, and we also need depth. With the shape our O-line has been in, we can't afford to let even average NFL lineman walk away without making them a fair offer.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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man i cant believe some of these posts. Fraley had a very good year despite playing between Druzzi and Coleman. Now I do think the Browns are looking to add better run blocking and bulk to the interior but you cant say anything negative about Fraley's play. I think he was a huge upgrade over Faine and we were very lucky to get the guy in here and frankly he was our best linemen last year.
I didnt say anything negative about his play. I said he was brought here as a stop gap and that's exactly what he is. And he will continue to be a stop gap until Bentley comes back or we find someone else. He's on the downside of his career and we grabbed him after he lost his starting job in Philly. Frankly, I'm tired of having to rely on other team's castoffs to fill in as our starters. But when you're plagued with injuries, you do what you have to do. After LCB went down, we needed a center and l will say that we were lucky to nab Fraley. He's much better than Hallen, Friedman and the plethora of other bums we had in here taking snaps. But while he held his own, I do have to disagree with you that he was an upgrade over Faine. If anything, I think it's a wash, although Faine's been looking pretty good in the gold and black lately.
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I can't beleive some people don't want Hank back. I'm I the only person that jumped out of my chair/couch/or bar stool every time I saw him in the second level running someone down to throw another block? When was the last time you consistantly saw Bronws Olinemen with that tenasity plus the legs to get there?
I believe all fans have the right to cast off there love of players in todays NFL. The teams do it to the players when they lose a step. the players do it to the team & us fans for the higher dollar. Long gone is loyalty. Call me old fashion, but I want to keep a guy like Hank around. This is the kind of attitude the new era browns have been lacking. We've had our guys here and there.(Tucker) but we need to build a majority of this player attitude to change the team culture and get back to Browns greatness and gritty respect that used to make me proud regarless of missing the word (superbowl).
People LCB is also a probowl guard. Who is to say, God willing he comes back an = player as prior to the injury, he has to now be a center? I don't believe LCB would say a peep if we asked him to move to guard his first year back. He knows he owes the fans and the team something. I think he is the type of player that will contribute in anyway shape or form after whats happened.
Even if we fix the line, the past four or five seasons we have been in the top four or five in injuries. (pretty sure, dont kill me if inaccurate). we need two of pretty much everthing is this town.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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*Appluads Roc*
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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1. I noticed u didnt touch on my comment about us not being able to fix the OL if we dotn take Joe at #1 .. why's that??
BQ would be by far the best QB we've and here .. and we have to FIX THE OL REGARDLESS OF WHO THE QB IS
It is NOT possible to fix the Browns o-line with entirely FA signings. Likewise, second day projects like Isaac Sowells will only take us so far. Yes, the Browns could take an o-lineman in rd 2 or 3. But, there is a reason that guy dropped to the 2nd or 3rd round... because he isn't as good as the guys picked in front of him.
The Browns line is in shambles. You don't start building an ELITE line with a second tier lineman.
As for BQ... pointless. He would end up just like Couch or Carr. Shellshocked... skittish... make poor decisions while getting drilled.
There are 2 or 3 "can't miss" QBs in every draft. We can wait and be in the Brahmn/Booty/whoever lottery next year. There are too many holes too fill.
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It is NOT possible to fix the Browns o-line with entirely FA signings. Likewise, second day projects like Isaac Sowells will only take us so far. Yes, the Browns could take an o-lineman in rd 2 or 3. But, there is a reason that guy dropped to the 2nd or 3rd round... because he isn't as good as the guys picked in front of him.
The Browns line is in shambles. You don't start building an ELITE line with a second tier lineman.
Fraley really isn't even a FA Signing if we get it done...It's keeping your own...He will forever be in our history as Acquired Via Trade...
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Likewise, second day projects like Isaac Sowells will only take us so far.
THINK Dude...We're about to Sign an UDFA to a multi-year Contract...A TOP Guard...There are Guards all over the NFL who are QUALITY Starters that have come from Day TWO of any draft...
U cannot expect a 2nd year 4th round pick to step in and be SOLID...If u have that luxury you're LUCKY...It takes a few years to get these guys up to speed...It's WHY U DRAFT LINEMEN EVERY YEAR...So when it comes time to let one go to FA...U have one waiting in the wings...
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Keep this name in mind incase Fraley is not resigned..Al Johnson..
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605 |
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*Appluads Roc*
LOL, thanks Punch'. Not sure what got into me there. I usually reserved and don't get into argumentative posts. . but dang some folks, we went thru like 8 centers last year. It felt pretty freakin crappy until sir Hank.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 832
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 832 |
Quote:
Fraley really isn't even a FA Signing if we get it done...It's keeping your own...He will forever be in our history as Acquired Via Trade...
THINK Dude...We're about to Sign an UDFA to a multi-year Contract...A TOP Guard...There are Guards all over the NFL who are QUALITY Starters that have come from Day TWO of any draft...
I am not opposed to resigning Fraley. I am all for it. ???
I know that plenty of quality o-linemen come from "day 2" or as UDFA... but, as you said it takes them years to develop. I want "day 1" player that can walk through the door and immediately be better than anyone else on the roster at that position.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum C Hank Fraley will test the market
Among other Browns..
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