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I never compared him to Jones.
No doubt speed is a factor. I just think it is a tad over rated, especially with a QB who's strength isn't the deep ball.
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He played a lot against Ohio State in college. He was always a pesky guy who caught damn near everything thrown his way.
So, let me get this straight. You're basing that on what he did in college against Ohio State?
I'm basing it on the fact he's been cut twice. Maybe he can make the jump from the practice squad to the roster, but I wouldn't count on it.
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I think this group gives us a legit shot of losing every game and locking down the #1 pick, they do a great job of not getting open and dropping passes. Hopefully we have a little Luck and the season is not canceled. 
Last edited by Psydeffect; 05/10/11 07:43 AM.
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There you go again. Well, you said it. Kidding aside, it's fun to speculate, and as you can see from the many posts, there are all kinds of thoughts on the subject. I like reading what people have to say about this, or the WL record. Besides, what else do you have to do, or talk about... there certainly isn't any "legitimate" football happening now, so seriously, what's the harm? If you don't want to participate, that's your right as a free American. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Norwood has a greater chance being a brown than Stuckey..
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J/C
surprised it went this long, might as well throw my 2 cents into the wishing well.
MoMass - extremely disappointed in him last season. after his okay rookie year, I was hoping that he'd emerge in his sophomore year. instead, he pretty much disappeared after his TD catch in the first game against TB.
Robiskie - that preseason game where Seneca force-fed him the ball 7 out of 10 times and he only caught a couple was disheartening. Then, he disappeared the first half of the season. but, being that this is Cleveland, he gave us a glimmer of hope down the stretch that he might be able to contribute. He should be a redzone threat for us with his ability to battle DBs. I have no idea if he will develop into that role or not.
Cribbs - we seem to be leaving him off this list. While, he is not a prototypical WCO WR, he was pretty good at giving us a big play from time to time (though it seemed like half of them were drawing D-PI). It'll be interesting to see how we integrate Cribbs into our offense.
Little - I try not to expect too much out of rookie non-1st round draft picks. We really need him to step up and help, but it's going to really hurt if we don't have time for him to learn the system.
Mitchell - anything we get from him is a bonus. would love if he added something of value.
Shurmur - he created Mark Clayton's career. he had WRs running good routes and catching the ball despite a littany of injuries (Avery, Amendola, Clayton, etc). now, maybe it was all Sam Bradford, but I'd like to at least think that coaching the WRs to be consistent had something to do with it too.
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What was your problem with the one carry he had for 9 yards?
I didn't realize the other 3 end-arounds were in the preseason.
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Tough question because oru whole passing game hasn't looked legit.. is it the WR? The revolving door at QB? the scheme and routes? I think it's all of those... Get a good consistent offensive scheme, get consistency at the QB position and our WR's will look better anyway. I think the addition of the kid from UNC is an upgrade and if everything else gets better, the WRs will look a lot better..
Sort of the rising tide lifts all boats philosophy.
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He played a lot against Ohio State in college. He was always a pesky guy who caught damn near everything thrown his way.
So, let me get this straight. You're basing that on what he did in college against Ohio State?
I'm basing it on the fact he's been cut twice. Maybe he can make the jump from the practice squad to the roster, but I wouldn't count on it.
I am basing it on scouting reports, plus what I saw him do against OSU for 3 of the 4 years he played against them. He was an effective 3rd down type WR, who got open, and who caught everything thrown his way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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wow...i'd say this question is a wee bit premature considering we have one new receiver who hasn't played in over a year. I think the WCO will help them look better as will a year smarter Colt McCoy but I'd still say our WR's are below average
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It wouldn't be speculation if we knew for sure, then, what would be the point of discussing it? 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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He played a lot against Ohio State in college. He was always a pesky guy who caught damn near everything thrown his way.
So, let me get this straight. You're basing that on what he did in college against Ohio State?
I'm basing it on the fact he's been cut twice. Maybe he can make the jump from the practice squad to the roster, but I wouldn't count on it.
I am basing it on scouting reports, plus what I saw him do against OSU for 3 of the 4 years he played against them. He was an effective 3rd down type WR, who got open, and who caught everything thrown his way.
I hated norwood at PSU, him and derrick williams pwned our corners
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wow...i'd say this question is a wee bit premature considering we have one new receiver who hasn't played in over a year. I think the WCO will help them look better as will a year smarter Colt McCoy but I'd still say our WR's are below average
They are below average for now, but Tom Brady played with below average receivers for years in New England. Not saying Colt is Tom Brady, but a quarterback can do things with receivers who waren't the greatest. If we can get 6 yards on 3rd and 5, then they did their job. Would it be better to get 35 yards? Sure, but getting first downs when needed and allowing the running game more carries can be an effective offense.
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a quarterback can do things with receivers who aren't the greatest.
I tend to share this sentiment, and feel Colt will help elevate this corps to legit status. I think hard work, chemistry with the WRs, study of opponents, trust of the players and an unselfish ability to spread the ball around, (getting it to the open man no matter who it is,) will go a long way toward fielding a potent passing attack, and ultimately lend legitimacy to the WR corps. Someone is always open, it's up to Colt to find him.
That said, I also believe we'll start seeing real improvement in the play makers themselves, once ensconced in a system that favors their abilities.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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i agree.. Chemistry and QB Awareness trumps everything IMO on what makes offenses click.. There were so many times last year that a WR or RB was wide open on the QB's blind side, that they never even looked at them, or considered throwing to them.. 
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Talk about orange and brown glasses  No free agency, add 2 mid round rookies and now we have a legit WR core?
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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Thank you for your in-depth analysis. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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When asked why he's confident that the Browns could draft only one wide receiver, North Carolina's Greg Little, and still get improved production from the position, Shurmur continued to defend the receivers who will return from last season. "I watched every snap of every game of all of our games a year ago," he said.
"I feel confident that the guys that we have will compete. We have NFL football players. I feel like given the right situation, (if) we put them in the right circumstances, they'll have a chance to compete. I have confidence in him. As a coach, it's very, very important, I think, that you encourage and you empower the players that you have. I think that's the direction that we're gonna go.
Now encouragement comes in a lot of different ways. Some guys don't respond unless they're threatened. Other guys you can whisper to. … But I feel as though we have a talented group on our team, and I feel like we've added a bunch of new talented players. Once we get to the business of free agency and we fill out the rest of our team, I think I'll feel good as we get going."
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shurmur seems more intrigued by this group of receivers than enthused. I will not be shocked to see a FA added to the receiver corps. We need that deep threat speed guy. Wonder what it would take to get Steve Smith away from Carolina?
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We need that deep threat speed guy.
Why? We're not going to be throwing 40 yards down the field on a regular basis. Furthermore, you don't have to pass it down the field 40 yards. If you do, you should just try and get the yards back by going shorter and punt on 4th down if you don't make it. 
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Colt can't throw that far anyway Colt also had an above AVG OL protecting him.... Colt had an above AVG running game...and maybe the best receiving RB at that Colt still was the QB of 1 of the worst passing attacks in the NFL...he had 2 TDs and 8 INTs in 3 games against PIT and BAL I think you guys overvalue Colt A LOT...he's likeable, he's smart, everyone, including me, wants him to succeed....BUT...looking at him objectively...he just seems to fall short in the talent department...just don't forget that he was an afterthought in a very weak QB class
#gmstrong
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ummm... he was a rookie django and IIRC some of his INTs clanked off the receivers hands (or faceguard). I'm not completely sold on him - I don't think many are right now - but to define him by his rookie season would be idiotic.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Generally in the west coast offense, you have the big physical run after catch X receiver in the slot. Y is more traditional type receiver with good size, good routes, good blocker that plays that short to mid game well. The Z is often your speedy deep threat that can open up the field vertically.
Your Z pulls the safety and draws the double. Look at what DeSean Jackson does for the Eagles. Everyone else on the team has to beat single coverage because he is always getting the double and opening things up for everyone else.
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I think you guys overvalue Colt A LOT...he's likeable, he's smart, everyone, including me, wants him to succeed....BUT...looking at him objectively...he just seems to fall short in the talent department...just don't forget that he was an afterthought in a very weak QB class
Bingo. He's Charlie Frye 2.0. He's a natural leader. He's smart. He's personable. Man you want to root for this kid, but I just don't see it. $20 says we're looking square at Andrew Luck this time next year. Of course, that's not a bad thing in the grand scheme.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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I think you guys overvalue Colt A LOT...he's likeable, he's smart, everyone, including me, wants him to succeed....BUT...looking at him objectively...he just seems to fall short in the talent department...just don't forget that he was an afterthought in a very weak QB class
Bingo. He's Charlie Frye 2.0. He's a natural leader. He's smart. He's personable. Man you want to root for this kid, but I just don't see it. $20 says we're looking square at Andrew Luck this time next year. Of course, that's not a bad thing in the grand scheme.
Do you still think we win only 2 games next year?
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Without knowing FA or injuries it's a total guess, but if you put a gun to my head and forced me to come up with a prediction right now I'd have to say 3 wins.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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$20 says we're looking square at Andrew Luck this time next year.
I'd take that bet. I'd go a little further and say Colt's going to be the starter for at least the next two seasons. Holmgren develops QB's and he didn't even want Colt to see the field last year, you have to take that into consideration when jumping on the QB carousel with Django.
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Colt can't throw that far anyway
Colt also had an above AVG OL protecting him....
Colt had an above AVG running game...and maybe the best receiving RB at that
Colt still was the QB of 1 of the worst passing attacks in the NFL...he had 2 TDs and 8 INTs in 3 games against PIT and BAL
I think you guys overvalue Colt A LOT...he's likeable, he's smart, everyone, including me, wants him to succeed....BUT...looking at him objectively...he just seems to fall short in the talent department...just don't forget that he was an afterthought in a very weak QB class
He can throw that far but I wouldn't ask him to throw 50, 60 or 70 yards. Anyway, anytime that you throw deep, you give good defensive backs to do what they are there to do. Namely, to change the game by creating turnovers.
You think our OL is above average? I think it was above average on the left side, but well below average on the right side.
You think he had an above average running game? We had Hillis, but that's it. We were a one trick pony in that regard. Our second leading rusher was McCoy and he had under 150 yards. I won't argue that Hillis is a very good receiving back. He is an excellent one. In fact, he had the third most receiving yards (477) on the team behind Ben Watson and barely behind Massaquoi (483).
Having bad games against Pittsburgh & Baltimore aren't exactly knocks on a rookie QB, especially when your running game is a one trick pony and your top WR is almost surpassed by your RB in receiving yards.
Here's to Greg Little getting many, many receiving yards and taking some of the workload off of your RB.
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We might as well quit trying to predict about Colt.
We will know by game 8 if Colt is on a track that will lead him to a solid starting position with the team or if he is just another mediocre QB filling a spot.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Generally in the west coast offense, you have the big physical run after catch X receiver in the slot. Y is more traditional type receiver with good size, good routes, good blocker that plays that short to mid game well. The Z is often your speedy deep threat that can open up the field vertically.
Your Z pulls the safety and draws the double. Look at what DeSean Jackson does for the Eagles. Everyone else on the team has to beat single coverage because he is always getting the double and opening things up for everyone else.
You don't need a vertical threat to run the WCO. Period. Look at the 49ers during the 80s. When Joe Montana got there his top receiving threats for 4 years prior to Rice was Dwight Clark and the RBs. Even in Rice's first year, Montana's favorite target was Roger Craig (92 catches).
If you hadn't remembered, the 49ers won two Super Bowls with Clark & Craig as the top receiving threats before Rice got there.
We'll be fine with McCoy and with a good group of pass-catching TEs and a pass-catching RB. There was Freddie Solomon, but he wasn't exactly a deep threat.though.
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Bingo. He's Charlie Frye 2.0. He's a natural leader. He's smart. He's personable. Man you want to root for this kid, but I just don't see it.
Um... yeah. Charlie Frye 2.0. 
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$20 says we're looking square at Andrew Luck this time next year. Of course, that's not a bad thing in the grand scheme.
Maybe. I don't think the Browns will want to look too hard at Luck but if your team isn't taking a look at Andrew Luck then your team is foolish. I don't expect that they'll be in any position to select him anyway unless they're giving up picks.
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Holmgren develops QB's and he didn't even want Colt to see the field last year, you have to take that into consideration when jumping on the QB carousel with Django.
That's a very good point. The playbook didn't suit McCoy last year. It was still Mangini's (or Daboll's) offense and not Holmgren's. We found out that it leads to 5-11 records but we've upgraded the playbook since then.
It should be interesting to see how the Browns have developed and meshed by the time of those final 6 games (4 of them against BallsNoMore & Putzburgh). 
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We might as well quit trying to predict about Colt.
We will know by game 8 if Colt is on a track that will lead him to a solid starting position with the team or if he is just another mediocre QB filling a spot.
See...that's what I don't like about this situation..."we will know"/"let's 1st see" scenarios have cost us YEARS of waste with middling QB talent....meanwhile we passed on Roethli, Rodgers, Freeman, Sanchez...just "to find out" if Frye, Quinn or DA and now McCoy are better than what they looked like in practice
our FO should know how good McCoy is/can be...same applies to the other QBs we had...they still passed on much better QB talent..."to find out"....this is the NFL, there's no time to find out....that's what College is for
This draft we passed on Gabbert...and I think it was the next mistake of many in our QB decision making history...even if Holmgren liked him...there was no way he could have sold Gabbert to the homers, who 1st want "to find out" the hard way how limited the Hobbitt is
I think McCoy has a decent enough ceiling but he will never get us to the big dance, he will not lose games where the rest of the team is matched up better, he will manage us to respectable records, maybe even to a PO appearance in the near future....but I think he's a tease QB just like DA was, just the complete opposite style of QB....I fear we will waste many years on him...there was a reason Heckert traded up for a running back with bum knees and selected a freaking G before he wven thought about Colt...and the FO better don't forget those reasons...just because he might look better than expected (and better than the bums we had before) doesn't make him a good NFL QB
You guys better hope Gabbert doesn't end up being much better than Colt or you'll never hear the end of it
#gmstrong
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You guys better hope Gabbert doesn't end up being much better than Colt or you'll never hear the end of it
Cmon now...U don't hear me or others spouting about passing on Rodgers...It is what it is...
If we are sitting 2-10 or 3-9 going into the last 4 games...U r gonna hear ALOT of us including ME screamin' to TANK the last 4 games for guess who...
LUCK...........And I don't care if McCoy averages 300 a game...And the D is what makes us lose all the time...I agree with u...McCoy is NOWHERE CLOSE to the QB Luck is...In ALL aspects...Physical and Mental make-up...
We can trade McCoy...Luck puts us on the run the Colts and Manning have had...
Go Browns!!!
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Charlie Frye ain't got nothing on Colt McCoy.. They shouldn't even be referenced together in the same sentence.
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yeah really. Whenever Frye dropped back to pass, many of us had very uneasy feelings (same with DA for the most part, and BQ also, as things turned out).
I don't get that feeling with Colt - no deer in headlights look. He knows what the hell he's doing out there, and he's only gonna get better. He just he needs an upgrade in talent around him. I know he threw too many picks at the end of 2010 but I love his accuracy.
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yea, for the longest I was nervous every time we passed the ball, but w/ Colt I'm actually excited when he gets the opportunity to throw. No fret, worry, or fear that something bad is about to happen at all.
I'm really hoping the right side of the oline clicks though, cuz I hate to see him get sacked.
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I've made it known that I'm not the world's biggest Colt fan, but to compare him to Frye is not at all accurate. All they have in common is mobility and a lack of arm strength. Colt has much better accuracy and pocket presence.
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I've made it known that I'm not the world's biggest Colt fan, but to compare him to Frye is not at all accurate. All they have in common is mobility and a lack of arm strength. Colt has much better accuracy and pocket presence.
I agree the jury's still out on Colt, but I agree with your assessments of the two.
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Frye may not have had "it" compared to Colt, but McCoy is going to get an opportunity to continue to develop and improve on his weaknesses. CF never got that chance. I am not defending Frye, as even a longer period would probably have shown he wasn't going to be our Montana.
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Frye definitely got a chance. He started for 1.5 years and would have started another one if he hadn't sucked so much. He definitely didn't have much talent his first two years, but he had a much more talented offense in '07 than Colt has now. He had Braylon, Winslow, Joe J, Jamal, and a great offensive line. His performance against the Steelers in week 1 was one of the worst I've ever seen. Then we went on to win 10 games and put up a ton of points with another very bad quarterback.
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