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Frye may not have had "it" compared to Colt, but McCoy is going to get an opportunity to continue to develop and improve on his weaknesses. CF never got that chance. I am not defending Frye, as even a longer period would probably have shown he wasn't going to be our Montana.
Frye got a VERY FAIR chance to prove himself.. longer than a lot of other QB's we have had.. ie Brady Quinn.
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You guys better hope Gabbert doesn't end up being much better than Colt or you'll never hear the end of it
Cmon now...U don't hear me or others spouting about passing on Rodgers...It is what it is...
If we are sitting 2-10 or 3-9 going into the last 4 games...U r gonna hear ALOT of us including ME screamin' to TANK the last 4 games for guess who...
LUCK...........And I don't care if McCoy averages 300 a game...And the D is what makes us lose all the time...I agree with u...McCoy is NOWHERE CLOSE to the QB Luck is...In ALL aspects...Physical and Mental make-up...
We can trade McCoy...Luck puts us on the run the Colts and Manning have had...
With the way we do things though, we'll lose every game heading into the finel 2 weeks of the season. One other team with a deep QB hole will have one win.
We'll then go on a 2 game winning streak to end the season .......... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Frye may not have had "it" compared to Colt, but McCoy is going to get an opportunity to continue to develop and improve on his weaknesses. CF never got that chance. I am not defending Frye, as even a longer period would probably have shown he wasn't going to be our Montana.
Frye got a VERY FAIR chance to prove himself.. longer than a lot of other QB's we have had.. ie Brady Quinn.
I didn't say it wasn't a fair chance, nor a long chance,....the point is/was, Colt is going to have a much longer leash because of who upper management is. And as to how talented the team was or wasn't back then, how many playoff games did it get to ? That isn't all on Charlie Frye. We "upgraded" to Anderson, won ten games, still didn't go anywhere, and fried Quinn in the meantime. The problem(s) ran a lot deeper than just Charlie Frye being a bad QB.
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We can't worry about the past.
It really made no sense to select Gabbert this year.
Like it or not the team seems high on Colt...at least warm.
Like it or not you have to give a QB some time. I don't buy in to the 30 game number some suggest. I think 15 games gives you a pretty good idea of if the guy has it and can take it further or if he is about as good as he's going to get.
You are barking at the wrong guy when it comes to not wasting time on mediocre QB's....I am all for not wasting time.
You also factor in we have some extra picks next year. That's a good start at getting a QB in the draft if we choose to go that route.
Face it....if Colt falters and we only win 4 games, we are going to be picking high....high enough it won't be impossible to make a run at Luck....it will cost more than those two picks, but like I said, it's a good start.
If Colt looks like he gets it and does what the team hopes...well...that's good.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Gabbert will never win a superbowl, I guarantee that. Well then again he could be a 3rd stringer somewhere down the road. Besides Luck and Barkley next year will be far superior players with higher ceilings. They fit what a QB should be.
Gabbert folds under pressure when someone gets in his face just once.
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I'm going out on a limb here by saying we do.
I really like the Little pick. Big, strong, aggressive with good hands is just what we needed. Knock is route running, but that can be learned and in this new system, he basically needs to be open where McCoy expects him to be, or where he can find him.
Robo and Mo-mass, now in their 3rd year, should flourish in the WCO, and it's time for them to get comfortable and step up their games. Consistency with a QB will help immensely.
Jordon Norwood is a legit slot guy that, IMHO, will surprise a lot of fans. I expect big things from him.
Either Mitchell or Haggerty may stick as a back-up.
I hope the Cribbs experiment is done. I believe it's very important to give these other guys the time on the field they need. He's still potentially an effective offensive weapon, but likely more useful out of the backfield in this system.
Sprinkle in Watson, Moore, Cameron, Hillis, Hardesty and Marecic, McCoy should have legitimate pass catching weapons all over the field, and should be able to mount a serious air attack, giving opposing defenses major problems covering. Given the number of capable pass catchers on the roster, under the new system, we should be able to create serious match-up problems for all of our opponents.
Thoughts?
Wow, Robo gets little separation and MoMass took a step BACK last year. Little had BETTER come through yet our RT tackle situation is so Dire that I am afraid Colt will not last very long.
Had we not over reacted and dumped Rogers we could have went Carimi in rd1 at RT and really been looking good at oline. Then Colt has a chance to be standing for three seconds to spot a receiver.
I believe it is CRIBBS who may blossom in the west coast as he has decent hands and can actually run after the catch. I know very little on Little yet to pin your hopes on a man with ONE year of starting in College is, well, a stretch.
We need a veteran, a damned solid one. We better quit the delusion that Pashos, injured his last three years and on his THIRD team in that time is any answer to the troubling question.
Last year the front office made the mind boggling assertion that they were set at WR and we did not need help. It was as crazy a drink of cool ade as the belief Jake delhomme was still a top QB.. I watched the Miami game i still had on my recorder and forgot Rogers had also blocked a field goal for the winning margin in that game as well. We over reacted and pulled the plug on a guy still recovering from a major injury and still pushed himself to play yet pay sitting in the tub with the club Pashos.
the front office has already penciled in pashos, bet that makes our QBs all warm and fuzzy and our recievers have 2 seconds to get open for a pass, adding with us dumping our great blocking fullback there will be many walking boots to go around.
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Here's what I know. That after AJ Green was off the board there was no one on the Draft board that was deserving of that 6 pick especially when compared to the value and number of picks offered by Atlanta to move into our slot. Could he have solidified our WR Corps, yeah.., and for a long time..I just don't see it with Julio Jones, and I think the trade will sway heavily in our favor after all is said and done and a little time.
Robiskie and MoMass are role players..They are 2nd and 3rd and sometimes 4th options. Which is different in a West Coast offense because those options could get up to 60 catches each if the ball is spread around accordingly. They are Serviceable and are needed and capable receivers. They are not and will never be a #1 or a game changing threat..
I like the Little pick. There is no denying his Physical Style of play and his exceptional hands or the high intensity level he plays at. His unwillingness to give up on any play will make a difference in the outcome of many games over his career. I think he could be a borderline #1 receiver in the NFL, but probably more an exceptional #2. Kind of like Bolden was to Fitzgerald. As a #1 I would compare him to a Young Hines Ward. Not a true #1 but Can hold the fort down and possibly by his presence make the others better.
I am not sure that H&H are worried about finding a sure fire #1 yet. I think they view it as a luxury until the rest of the team is more solidified and advancing regularly. My guess is if they seen the Development of McCoy and the offense as compared to say Matt Ryan and they started to level out, they would make a move similar to that or the Bolden signing in Baltimore.
I would say Our WR Corps have the potetial to be legit, The players are serviceable for what they want to accomplish this year in the offense that is being installed around the guys we have. I am pretty sure Daboll was trying to use them the wrong way and the routes were to long and slow to develop for the types of receivers he had. I can't think of one ten yard buttonhook ever. A 15 yard out with guys that have a hard time getting seperation against man coverage has little chance of being succesful. I think we will see a dramatic improvement in Receiver play, at least up to NFL standards just from the offense alone. JMHO
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I get your knock on Pashos, and figure they need to address the RT spot in FA, if for no other reason than to add depth. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Very reasonably stated, and likely too. Little is a guess at this point, but has the physicality and tools to be a #1, whether he will be or not remains to be seen, that's up to him and how straight he keeps his head. Also, as you stated, a true #1 isn't all that important in the WCO, as overall production will depend on the performance of the QB and the unit as a whole, including blocking by the WRs, and blocking and pass catching by the TEs & RBs.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Here's what I know. That after AJ Green was off the board there was no one on the Draft board that was deserving of that 6 pick especially when compared to the value and number of picks offered by Atlanta to move into our slot. Could he have solidified our WR Corps, yeah.., and for a long time..I just don't see it with Julio Jones, and I think the trade will sway heavily in our favor after all is said and done and a little time.
Robiskie and MoMass are role players..They are 2nd and 3rd and sometimes 4th options. Which is different in a West Coast offense because those options could get up to 60 catches each if the ball is spread around accordingly. They are Serviceable and are needed and capable receivers. They are not and will never be a #1 or a game changing threat..
I like the Little pick. There is no denying his Physical Style of play and his exceptional hands or the high intensity level he plays at. His unwillingness to give up on any play will make a difference in the outcome of many games over his career. I think he could be a borderline #1 receiver in the NFL, but probably more an exceptional #2. Kind of like Bolden was to Fitzgerald. As a #1 I would compare him to a Young Hines Ward. Not a true #1 but Can hold the fort down and possibly by his presence make the others better.
I am not sure that H&H are worried about finding a sure fire #1 yet. I think they view it as a luxury until the rest of the team is more solidified and advancing regularly. My guess is if they seen the Development of McCoy and the offense as compared to say Matt Ryan and they started to level out, they would make a move similar to that or the Bolden signing in Baltimore.
I would say Our WR Corps have the potetial to be legit, The players are serviceable for what they want to accomplish this year in the offense that is being installed around the guys we have. I am pretty sure Daboll was trying to use them the wrong way and the routes were to long and slow to develop for the types of receivers he had. I can't think of one ten yard buttonhook ever. A 15 yard out with guys that have a hard time getting seperation against man coverage has little chance of being succesful. I think we will see a dramatic improvement in Receiver play, at least up to NFL standards just from the offense alone. JMHO
Everyone was talking up the Mangini trade out of the #5 pick when we got a box o Rocks. It is hard to say who got the best until we see how the picks pan out. At least we don't have an idiot Brain trust like Mangini/Kokinis working the deals. Heckert had a decent draft last year yet I was not excited by Haden and the safety( on paper) until I saw them play. Then I respected Heckert a lot more. On paper we did well, yet had we not pushed Rogers out the door saved the #3 and got Mathews and used our #1 for Carimi I would have felt much much better. then we could have filled two holes with excellence and went with Rogers another year removed from his Achilles and he may have returned to a top player.
We come down hard on a player who pushed to play injured and then delude ourselves ( the front office does) about hardesty, DQ, and Pashos..hoping against reality in the same fashion they deluded themselves Jake delhomme was still a top QB with a lot of good football left in him. yeah right.
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Everyone was talking up the Mangini trade out of the #5 pick when we got a box o Rocks.
yyyyyep.
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Everyone was talking up the Mangini trade out of the #5 pick when we got a box o Rocks.
yyyyyep.
Not true...I remember Toad ( I think it was him, pretty sure though....btw: whats up with him?) and me wanted Crabtree as the BPA....everyone wanted to trade down...sure...but the "value" was horrible...some 30yo, AVG at best DL?...5th round value at best for Coleman and Ratliff was worthless, 7th at best and former UDFA Elam? Really? an UDFA overachieving S?
At the time of the pick my top 3 were OT Oher, OLB Barwin and WR Nicks...OT, pass rusher and #1 WR prospect...value positions...Mangini selected a C (highest drafted at the time)..and THEN scrambles for 2nd tier WRs (Massa, Robo) and 3rd tier pass rush project (Veikune)....
This was the blueprint of how to ruin/totally deconstruct a top 5 pick and receive/pick the lowest possible VALUE return...EPIC FAIL....we had 4 Top 55 picks...4 !!!...this draft should have been above AVG by DEFAULT even if a moron would have made the selections...and all we got from it is 1 (!!) AVG or better NFL player...and a freaking C at that...where you can draft decent ones in round 3 to 5...what a joke, after 2 years it's already a well below AVG draft...
Imagine what Heckert would do with 4 Top 2 round picks...for comparisons sake...Philly picked Maclin at 19 and Desean Jackson AFTER our 3 2nd rounders...he managed to get much better value and players out of MUCH MUCH less he had to work with....It's like a 40yd dash and Mangini got to start from the 20yd line and Heckert still finished ahead of him....I'd trade Mack, Massa, Robo and Veikune for Jackson and Maclin in a heartbeat...but already midway through their rookie seasons already nobody n the NFL would have done that trade....just to make you guys realize how much better off we are with Heckert instead of "The Process"
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Imagine what Heckert would do with 4 Top 2 round picks...for comparisons sake...Philly picked Maclin at 19 and Desean Jackson AFTER our 3 2nd rounders...he managed to get much better value and players out of MUCH MUCH less he had to work with....
Eagles already had DeSean Jackson from the 2008 draft. The Eagles picked Maclin at #19 and McCoy at #53 in the 2009 draft. Point still taken as both have been good players for the Eagles (however, must also note the Reid drafting philosophy of taking OL/DL until those positions are stabilized and then go after the 'skill' positions).
#gmstrong
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My bad, typo....was thinking of the RB but mixed up the name....Maclin and McCoy...still worlds better than the 4 propsects + 3 Jets stooges we got For all of you who don't like uptrades...imagine Mangini would have used 2 2nds to trade back into the 1st for Nicks...how much better that draft would look...who knows talent (and Heckert does, even though he seems to be a bit too much upside happy) goes up and gets said talent... otoh, who doesn't (= Mangini), accumulates picks (many forgot that he traded down twice for next to nothing after the Jets trade....I was totally confused by then, saying "he doesnt like anyone"...btw, the teams trading up selected QB Freeman and WR Maclin, not that we needed a franchise QB and WR, lol...they identified their target and got them...looks like we had no plan whatsoever), waits till their otc, goes the safe interior OL route, doubles up on 1 position in the next round after letting the best at that premium position go by earlier and prays for someone to stick...that draft was Mangini as a Coach and person in a nutshell: reactionary and passive...he drafted not to lose or better "not to look bad"...like kicking a FG from the 1inch line on the 1st possession against the worst NFL team defending it postgame with: "I expected a close game" WTF did you draft a run blocking monster C THEN FOR ???? Thankfully, that "process" of idiocy is over
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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 I think this more aptly applies to Mohamed Massaquoi than any of our other receivers.
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MoMass and Robo catch the ball. There hands are not the issue. It's getting separation. Don't try my boy up like that any more. Thank you!  
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I don't know,....if that ball just bounced off his head, it looks a lot like BE to me,... 
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I don't know,....if that ball just bounced off his head, it looks a lot like BE to me,...
from the Giants MNF game. yeah, I can see the resemblance.
#gmstrong
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One of my 5 favorite games since '99.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Do We Finally Have A Legit WR
Corps?
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