DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement Part 5

that's what doesn't make any sense to me. how can they give teams such a narrow window of where their team salary needs to be?

i just don't see how a team deciding they are going to strip down and rebuild (think the TB style going young) warrants the same salary as say the defending superbowl champion packers who have to re-up a bunch of their veterans.

if that actually goes through, it'll be interesting to see how it's handled.

It's also being mentioned that UFA will be after 4 years of service...

That makes this pot real big...

Doesn't seem to be much opposition to this...At least Owner wise...

And you can start figuring out who's an UFA...4 years or more...

Owners envision deal within 2-3 weeks


By Len Pasquarelli
The Sports Xchange
Posted Jun 22, 2011

With momentum seemingly rolling toward a new collective bargaining agreement, one that would permit for training camps to open on time at the end of July and allow a full, 16-game regular season, "optimism" appeared to be the term which best characterized the special owners' meeting convened in Chicago on Tuesday.

For the most part, the owners seemed to like what they heard from commissioner Roger Goodell, a leader clearly under pressure as the lockout neared the 100-day mark, and from the owners who participated in the negotiations that dissolved the inertia of the first three-plus months of the work stoppage.

Almost as important, they liked what they didn't hear.

Much dissent.

"Obviously, there are some people who don't agree with some of what was laid out," said one AFC owner of the foundation for the agreement that was described in detail to the membership on Tuesday. "But it doesn't look like there's enough (opposition) to stop the train."

As reported for the past several days by many media outlets, including The Sports Xchange, there are some owners, including at least two from AFC franchises, who are not in favor of some of the presumptive tenets of an agreement framework. According to three owners who spoke to The Sports Xchange within an hour of the meeting adjourning, those owners have not dramatically shifted their opinions.

But, again, it does not appear there is sufficient opposition to derail the process or to block approval of a CBA if current momentum leads to an agreement. New England's Bob Kraft, certainly one of the most influential owners and noted as a man who has Goodell's ear, allowed there is "still a lot of work ahead of us." Still, much of the heavy lifting, particularly in terms of revenue split, seems be accomplished.

Owners and player representatives are expected to convene again sometime this week for the fourth round of what have been characterized as "secret" meetings.

There were no formal votes taken Tuesday, not even the kind of unofficial "straw polls" that are a big part of such meetings, but one owner acknowledged he was "kind of counting noses," and discerned four or five opponents "at most." Approval of a CBA requires a three-quarters vote of the membership, meaning that just nine "no" votes are needed to squelch a deal.

Said one NFC owner: "The purpose of the meeting was to get things out on the table. But it sure looks like there's nothing close to nine ("no") votes."

Few ventured a guess as to timeframe, but several owners seemed to be operating under the assumption that an accord could come in the next 2-3 weeks. None of the owners that spoke to The Sports Xchange would estimate when veteran free agency might begin, but all agreed it was helpful that several teams brought general managers, football operations directors, or cap specialists to Chicago, and that the so-called "football men" were allowed to offer their views on potential timeframes.

As first reported by Chris Mortensen of ESPN, the proposed CBA would provide players with 48 percent of all revenues. It would do away with "designated revenue" income and remove the $1 billion in credits that owners currently take off the top of the $9 billion-plus in revenues generated by the league. Owners were seeking an additional $1 billion credit, and have apparently done away with that.

While that appears to be a reduction from the 60 percent split that has long been used to describe the players' share, the actual number was 53-54 percent, after the owners' credits were calculated. Under the terms presented Tuesday, players would actually share in a bigger pie.

Also key is that franchises would be required to spend 100 percent, or close to it, of that year's salary cap, in terms of real cash expenditures. The salary cap essentially is a bookkeeping number - one that can be massaged up or down with several of the mechanisms available to teams - and there have been several clubs whose "real" payrolls have fallen short of the cap number.

Players would qualify for unrestricted free agency after four accrued seasons, which basically turns back the clock to pre-2010 levels. Last season, as a function of the "uncapped" year, players needed six seasons for unrestricted free agency. An 18-game season would be able to be negotiated, but would not be part of an accord. The league, according to the outline presented Tuesday, would market a new 1-game Thursday night schedule, beginning in 2012.

Bidding on the Thursday night schedule would be one cornerstone of what the NFL and players agree could be skyrocketing revenues in the next decade.

It is generally assumed a rookie wage scale will be part of a CBA, since both sides agree it is expedient, but that is one of several elements still being negotiated.

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It is generally assumed a rookie wage scale will be part of a CBA, since both sides agree it is expedient, but that is one of several elements still being negotiated.

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The only holdup on the rookie wage scale is the agents. NFL and most players want a slotted system. Agents want to be able to negotiate and make their %. So each agent is not going to settle for anything less than the max on scale and the agents can say see we got u every penny we could. It is hilarious.

Screw the agents. Build a fair slotted system for rookies and move on. The agents will still get theirs when all the vets sign contracts.

The best part of a slotted system, no more rookie holdouts. EVERYONE will be in camp on time.

There is no pressure to put on players.

The money pool is set.

The only players hurt by a wage scale for rookie contracts are college players.

I'd bet MOST NFL players will be happy with a reduced pie for rookies and more money for them.

jc...


anyone think this may cut down the number of agents?

Here's my thinking on this. If rookies have a wage scale and don't need agents upon entering, then there are fewer player under agent's thumbs. And with fewer rookie "prospective star" clients, then the agents will fight over the veterans, particularly the quality veterans.

In the past a new agent can scrape up a bunch of college prospects make some money on contracts, and when they "bust" out of the league before their second contract the agent moves on to the next wave of college rookies.

Without that influx of unknown talent, the contracts will be more talent based and true, leaving the big money with the proven stars. So while the pie slice may be the same, the chance of getting a decent share of that slice will require actual work and promotion among more matured clients.

Not sure if I explained that thought correctly.

it could certainly help the NCAA with their agent problems though I still think they'll fight over them (just not quite as hard)

It will probably cut down on some of the huge paydays that agents have when they negotiate those obscene signing bonuses.

All players are still going to seek agents.

Players don't have the time to work out a contract.

Agents provide a host of services players need and want.

As I said earlier....agents are going to still make some money and provide service.

Look at it this way....a top prospect comes out and hires a agent.

Said prospect shows up at the draft in a $1500 suit of clothes and is driving a new BMW.

That money came as a upfront loan....no interest....just a loan from the agent who gets it back once the checks start to arrive.

yup,, that's the way I think it is also.

IF I read it correctly, this would insert less drama and prolonged holdouts by agents for rookies, may have fewer agents indeed, but I am considering that the new situation will force them to give more attention to the average vet to "shore up the middle" more than now. Really interested in seeing the rookie shakeout.

Rookie pay scale is needed. From what I have read the only hold up is how do they make sure the $$ given up by the rookies will be paid to vets.

Lawyers for the NFL and the players' association wrapped up a second day of negotiations on a new collective bargaining agreement Wednesday and sources say both sides hope to achieve a true framework for a new CBA by the close of business on Friday.

Putting more pressure on the negotiators, U.S. District Judge Arthur Boylan, the mediator in the talks, is scheduled to go on vacation Saturday, sources said. But both sides are committed to stay in New York this weekend to try to finish the deal. The sides did not get together on weekends during negotiations the past month.

On Wednesday, lawyers negotiated details for free agency and training camps once the NFL is re-opened for business.

The players have so far rejected any deal that allows teams to have a right of first refusal on offers for up to three of their own free agents. One agent said: "That punishes the top guys."

Also, teams would be allowed to bring in 80 to 90 players to training camp to allow for injuries and rust because of the lockout, which reached its 113th day Wednesday.

On Thursday, commissioner Roger Goodell, NFLPA leader DeMaurice Smith, owners and players are expected to join the talks to finalize the details of a new revenue split, which is getting closer to agreement.

The NFL lockout began on March 11, with no obvious end in sight. ESPN.com Topics keeps you up to date on all of the latest on the labor situation. More »

Time is gradually becoming a factor in the discussions. Training camps for the St. Louis Rams and Chicago Bears are scheduled to open July 22, and those teams are scheduled to play in the Hall of Fame Game Aug. 7.

The rest of the training camps would open about a week later, with a full slate of preseason games set for the second weekend in August.

The Pro Football Hall of Fame is still on track to hold the game, hall president Steve Perry told ESPN on Tuesday.

"We're making all plans to have the game on time. We've heard from both parties -- the owners and the players -- and they've expressed their desire to have the game. So, that's our plan," Perry said.

It sounds close. The fact they have the details on FA and camps ironed out first tells me they might be close to lifting the lockout and getting that portion of the season going while they iron out the details on other aspects of the contract. In some cases, those details won't even come in to play until after this season concludes.

I hope teams can keep a right of first refusal on players, but I agree with the players to an extent, so in that I would say the teams couldn't simply match the offer some other team made....they would have to increase the amount a set percentage....say 5-10%....just a thought.

If they get solid parameters agreed upon by the weekend can they open for business before getting the 24 of 32 teams agreement on it???

We might actually see FA next week...Yay!!!!!!!

I dont believe there should be a right of refusal. Teams want to wait and have other teams do the work for them when they knew the guy was in the last year of his contract then they have months after the season to sign their free agents.

Tags should be allowed for one year and thats it.

IF these guys would learn to negotiate before the last minute we wouldn't have rookies missing camp, the CBA disaster we are in now would be avoided and players would be less inclined to test the market.

Thanks, Dawg in Dayton (from Spfld.). This sounds encouraging and getting closer to signable. My limited experience for what it's worth: 1)Many folks underestimate time in this process; beyond deadlines, this pressure is enormous to keep both sides engaged and available and grows daily. 2) There needs to be some momentum to blow through a scattering of rough spots just before the end; big stuff, and compromises on ugly points make for a buy in by parties on each side of the fence; if the big framework is in place, then a lot of this is going on, and it is all good. Now the trick is to get something fair for an extended time so there is labor peace to "grow the game" without this junk in the way. The free agency mechanics will be a nightmare of details, but be best for players; hope there are some sensible limits on rookies. Sign it so we can play.

I told everyone some time ago how the 8th circuit would rule in this case, so I'm not the least bit shocked that the 2 republican appointed judges ruled in favor of the owners and the 1 democrat appointed judge did not !

I am disappointed in the timing of the release of the ruling, when the two sides are so close to a deal being completed...especially after they sat on the ruling for who knows how long...as indicated in the article below.

Hopefully the two sides will continue to work to get a deal done and NOT use this ruling as an excuse to stop negotiations and blowup all the progress that has been made.

Eighth Circuit rules that lockout may continue

Mike Florio on July 8, 2011

Five weeks ago, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit heard oral arguments on whether Judge Susan Nelson’s decision to end the lockout should be upheld or overturned. At the end of the hearing, Judge Kermit Bye urged the parties to work out a resolution, hinting that neither side would like the ruling.

Throughout the past five weeks, it appeared that the Eighth Circuit was holding the ruling unless and until the negotiations fizzled out. Given that the Eighth Circuit had agreed to expedite all aspects of the appeal, the ongoing delay seemed to confirm that suspicion.

But the clock finally has run out. The Eighth Circuit has posted at its website a 34-page decision that strikes down Judge Nelson’s decision and allows the lockout to continue.

Specifically, the Eighth Circuit ruled that the Norris-LaGuardia Act prevents courts from issuing orders that end strikes or lockouts. Judge Bye, to no surprise, disagreed with the ruling.

While it appears to be a big win for the NFL, it wasn’t unexpected. And it’s far from the complete win the NFL wanted at this stage. As to the critically important question of whether the nonstatutory labor exemption survives the decertification of the NFLPA, the Eighth Circuit made no ruling — which means that even though the lockout can continue, a chance remains that the lockout later will be found to be illegal, exposing the NFL to a potential verdict of $12 billion or more if the 2011 season is lost.

We feared all along that the Eighth Circuit would issue a ruling that dramatically changes the dynamics of the situation as the parties were close to resolving the situation. And there’s a chance that the parties will need to tap the brakes and evaluate the ruling before continuing to talk.

In the end, they should agree that the ruling changes nothing. As expected, the lockout may continue. As expected, the players have the ability to pursue a gargantuan verdict if the lockout wipes out regular-season games.

web page

I'm just glad you were able to inject politics into this.

But, I will say I agree 100% with you that I hope this doesn't stop things. It seems as if progress was being made. I'd hate now for the owners to come in and say "hey, now that we've won this legal battle, we're taking things off the table."

I guess the best part of that is that they didnt neccesarily "win" the battle... yet anyways...

The ruling was pretty much split down the middle they say, with the NFL-were not really a-PA being able to go back at a later date...

J/C I want to go to at least 3 game's this year, one out west here, and 2 in Cleveland, but to get flight plans I always have them done this time of year, but not knowing if or when they will play make's it hard, anyone else in this tight spot?

This pretty much snuffed our annual bus trip to Cleveland as a BB club. Well, that and the seating switch. Lousy decision IMO. But, yeah, it ishard to plan for. We were looking at an out of state game as well for wife and parents; not going to commit at this point.

we go to san francisco once a year usually so the 49er or oakland game looked good, but have been hesitant about making plans.

but one of our favorite bands is playing a four day run in San francisco over halloween weekend, the same weekend as the 49er game. plane tickets being bought late tues night.

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I'm just glad you were able to inject politics into this.

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79..."Politics"...whether we realize it or not, touches our lives in some way, everyday.

I point out the politics to provide background and to help readers understand the "why"...why the 8th circuit court ruled the way they did.

There are those who want to continue a charade of sorts, pretending that "politics" is not involved in this case...they are 100% wrong.

Again, I'm not surprised by the ruling...but I'm dumbfounded as to why the 8th circuit sat on the ruling, then chose to release it when the two sides appear to be so close to a dean.

This morning I read that "little" was accomplished yesterday and labor talks that were expected through the weekend...ARE NOW OFF !

I think it is safe to say the owners are going over the ruling from the 8th circuit, and will be considering their options.

At the very least, the ruling in favor of the owners stopped negotiations dead in their tracks, for now.

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This morning I read that "little" was accomplished yesterday and labor talks that were expected through the weekend...ARE NOW OFF !

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NO THEY AREN'T................

What u heard was negotiations will resume Monday and the Lawyers will work through the weekend on the Language needed to put this thing to ink...

Noone ever said they would negotiate through the weekend...They said they will WORK through the weekend...And they are...

Mac, as usual you inject your left wing bias into something. The thing you didn't mention was how the NLRB is pack full with liberals.

Politics are not a deciding issue here, please leave your rhetoric out of it.