DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement Part 5

j/c

There is a growing belief inside league circles that the NFL and NFL Players Association will have an agreement in place that can be ratified during the July 21 league meetings in Atlanta, according to sources familiar with the state of negotiations.

As one NFL owner said this weekend, there's "no reason to believe it won't get done."

Other people familiar with the talks now think an agreement in principle will be put in place in the next seven to 10 days, a handshake deal that would allow each side to ratify the deal to start the 2011 season.

However, one member of the players' negotiating team who has been a constant presence at the table said that players feel they have made significant concessions and overtures "that have not been reciprocated."

He stated that negotiations Wednesday and Thursday will be the most telling days on whether an agreement indeed will be finalized within the July 21 time frame because "we've basically reached the limits of compromise."

The same source added that the players have agreed to cut rookie compensation in half but won't agree to a deal that does not allow for the rookie class to become free agents at the end of four years.

The lone exception could relate to allowing a fifth year for quarterbacks who were drafted in the first round but their salary would have to be set at the average of the top-10 players at their position in Year 5. The player source said that Cowboys owner Jerry Jones proposed such a solution but was shot down by his fellow owners.

There will be a conference call at 5 p.m. ET Tuesday -- the second such call in less than a week -- with the plaintiffs in the Brady vs. NFL antitrust case, according to an NFLPA source. The call is expected to address where the current talks stand. Lawyers for both sides met in New York for the second straight day Tuesday.

While a rookie wage system has been identified as the most complex issue still to be resolved between the owners and players as they return to the negotiating table this week in New York, the level of overall confidence in reaching an agreement also is evident in a document known as "The Transition Rules" that NFL teams would follow if and when both players and owners ratify a new labor agreement.

The Transition Rules spell out an actual timeline for roster transactions under the July 21 deal scenario, including the start of the new league year during which free agents would become eligible for the open market on July 28.

With the tight timeline, teams will be scrambling to fill rosters that must be set at 90 players on roughly Aug. 3 -- but all training camps would be able to open on time.

If the deal were to be ratified July 21, it would assure that almost all preseason games would be played, according to sources.

The one game in danger would be the Aug. 7 Hall of Fame matchup between the Bears and Rams. There are still mixed opinions and thoughts as to whether that game could or would be played.

The Transition Rules also would include a designated period for teams to sign undrafted free agent rookies, a pool that routinely provides productive and even star players.

If and when the final issues are resolved, the two sides will have closed enough ground in other key areas to have an agreement in principle that the courts, players and owners must ratify. But those steps are expected to occur in the days leading up to, and during, the July 21 owners meetings in Atlanta.

Once it is done, The Transition Rules will kick in. During the lockout, the NFL's Chief Executive Committee, or CEC, have selected a group of team executives to compile a timeline for how the offseason would operate from the moment a labor deal was done. The group produced plans for the lockout ending in March, June, July and October.

The one now dated July 1 is likely to be applied to any deal done by July 21, and it would spell out how and when roster moves could and would be made. It doesn't mean the new league year will unfold exactly like this; but it won't be far off, either.

Here is how the outlined plan for a July 1 deal could be adjusted for a potential July 21 deal with what would be the corresponding dates, according to sources familiar with the document, which many teams in the league have not yet seen:

• July 1 (July 21) -- Educate the clubs on the new league rules and allow voluntary training for teams and agents.

• July 5 (July 25) -- Sign undrafted rookies, as well as give free agents a chance to re-sign with their teams.

• July 8 (July 28) -- League year starts and free agency begins.

• July 13 (Aug. 2) -- Rosters must be set at 90 players.

• July 14 (Aug. 3) -- Deadline for restricted free agents to sign offer sheets.

• July 18 (Aug. 7 ) -- A four-day match period for teams to match restricted free-agent offer sheets.

• July 23 (Aug 12) -- Deadline for rookies to sign contracts (not yet agreed upon).

• July 27 (Aug. 16) -- Signing period for restricted free agents ends, as does the signing period for franchise and transition tenders.

• Aug. 9 (Aug. 29) -- Deadline for players to report to earned credit for an accrued season toward free agency.

Dates could be moved back within the framework of an already-outlined plan by the NFL for how a July 1 deal would have resulted in preparations for a season, according to sources. In the adjusted calendar, the league year would start and free agency would begin July 28.

Of the dates, the most significant is July 28, which would be the start of the league year and the multitude of roster moves that teams have been waiting for and planning for months.

The most intriguing is the deadline for rookies to sign their contracts. The NFL and NFLPA have discussed the idea of placing a deadline on rookies to sign to reduce the number of holdouts. Teams have expressed concern that the longer a rookie holds out, the higher his frequency for injury and failure are.

The two sides still must figure out this issue, as well as how much rookies will be paid and how long their contracts will be. Just as the NFL has insisted that there cannot be federal oversight in the next labor deal, the NFLPA feels just as strongly that all rookie deals be four years, according to sources.

But as one person close to the talks said this weekend, "We're at the 10-, maybe the 15-yard line, and we're marching down the field, and both sides want to score and I think we will."

Yet the disagreement over a rookie wage system for those who were drafted in late April is now the darkest cloud hanging over negotiations that are nearly complete on most major issues.

"The rookie wage scale is the only part I'm worried about," one source involved in the talks said this weekend. "They've finished the other important parts. The only issue left that can cause a problem is the rookie wage scale."

Under the NFL's proposal, the top pick's contract value would go from $78 million over six years to $34 million over five years with the ability to renegotiate after three years.

Owner and management sources maintain that the rookie wage system the players have proposed does not represent the anticipated dramatic reduction in salaries -- most notably for the top eight players chosen in the draft -- which would result in redistributed money to veteran players and retirees.

Player sources countered by saying their proposed system provides considerable reduction to the 2010 rookie salaries and that the dispute is based on owners desire to not only cut salaries drastically but control players for five years, morphing into "a dramatic veteran wage scale, not a rookie scale."

Aside from the rookie wage scale, the owners and players also have been stuck on a proposal by management that for the 2011 transition period, teams can exercise the right of first refusal on three free agents, in addition to their franchise-tag designees.

The players have rejected the proposal, which means teams could match any contract offer and retain their free agent player.

The two sides appear comfortable with a split of an all-revenue model in which players will receive about 48 percent of the money at the outset, and never less than approximately 46.5 percent as revenues are expected to grow significantly from $9.6 billion in 2011 over the term of an agreement that will be no less than seven years and couid go as long as 10.

But just as there is a roadmap for how this summer will work, there also is a roadmap for completing a deal that has taken football as hostage since March 11.

link

Also from the same site:

Rookie Pool Negotiations Update

High-level sources on both sides of the talks say the debate in the rookie pool talks is over how to structure a fifth-year option for first-round draft picks.

Under current proposals, all first rounders would get four-year deals, plus an option year. That option could be executed by the team after the third or fourth year of the contract.

For example, per negotiations Friday, Cam Newton, the No. 1 overall pick by the Carolina Panthers in April's draft, would get four years at $22 million.

However, owners want a fixed amount for the fifth year option, roughly $4 million. Players want a top 10 salary at the position for the top 16 picks. They proposed a top 15 salary for picks 17 through 32 and then proposed top 20.

Then another proposal by the players was made, the sides had strong disagreements, and the NFLPA went back to the top 15 for those lower first-round picks.

The top 10 scenario would get Newton's deal to roughly $34 million or $36 million for five years, if the option is picked up.

Owners also talked about an escalator clause based on performance for the fifth year in addition to the fixed amount. Players want agents to negotiate that fifth year when they do the contract. Owners don't want agents negotiating that fifth year.

" over the term of an agreement that would be no less than 7 years and could go as long as 10 "

Could they please make it at least 25, do we really have to go through this negotiating every 10 years.

I only have one question, at what day is the 16 game schedule in jeopardy?

I'm all for scrapping the entire pre-season, it is forgotton two weeks into the regular season anyway.

Thanks for this really informative article; great read. Our paper is giving us nothing much on this. I like more leverage on rookies to get signed and BE rooks instead of holdouts ransoming a club with the help of agents.
Performance at a position establishes worth or "bustness" and clubs need to pay attractive reasonable amounts to talented newcomers. But some deals are out of control, and keeping them off the field hurts everyone. I want to get to the season. And FA ought to be a rollercoaster frenzy when the dam breaks. Good stuff, BFS79

Apparently they're not close to a deal

Basically, it looks like each side is playing the same stupid game. By the owners saying that a deal is close, they felt that would put more pressure on the players to agree to a deal. Brees is simply trying to flip the script with his comments yesterday.

Man, I don't know which is worse, The Dems and Republicans or the NFLPA and the NFL Owners.. (I say that tongue in cheek, I know who has the more serious issue to solve)


Getting sick of them both.. and once again, caught in the middle is us.

I have lost ALOT of respect for Drew Brees the person throughout all of this, it's great what he's done for NO after Katrina and all that, but he's shown a side of himself that I am not a fan of...(mainly his Gene Upshaw related comments)

And people wondered why Manning was keeping his mouth shut...

Did I miss something specifically that Drew had said versus the other guys?

I mean I get that this lockout is tearing a lot of players and people apart, but from what I remember reading Drew has been pretty decent. He wrote an editorial in the ... what was it NY Times a year ago explaining the players case. Has had just as many "Camp Colt's" as almost any quarterback for the rookies. He has also provided meals and housing if I remember correctly for the rookies and younger guys that don't have money ...

I just skimmed over these articles and didn't see anything terribly wrong. Did I miss soemthing?

I guess I don't see what's wrong with what he said. You might not agree with it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong or out of line.

Claiming that the owners were using the death of a man to get a deal they wanted isn't out of line?

Ignoring the fact that 1. They opted out before Gene Upshaw was even diagnosed with cancer, and 2. If Gene Upshaw was still alive there possibly never would have been a lockout...

See, I read it as Upshaw was able to get deals done (see the 2006 CBA). When he died, the owners saw an opportunity to pounce on a new guy and try to enforce their ways.

And I'm not saying what the owners are doing is wrong. That's just negotiations.

Just like many of the owners' proponents talk about how Upshaw was able to push the last CBA on Tagliabue because he knew Tagliabue was retiring and wanted labor peace.

JMHO

I just don't think you make that statement reguardless of how it was meant...

It goes back to the fact that if BOTH sides took all the effort they put into making the other side look bad, and put it into actual I don't know... NEGOTIATIONS... We'd of had a deal by now...

If this who thing, legal wise, labor wise, whatever, was always going to lead to another CBA deal...

Why ever STOP negotiating?

OK, it's a bit sick, but how many jobs would this kickstart immediately in all the stadiums and such when they settle? Tired of waiting. My I could care less is worn out with this and media coverage of stuff. Please send us a football season.

Apparently they are much closer to a deal.

Link

That seemed to be one of the larger sticking points .... so it looks like really good news to me.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/676852...ent-source-says

The salary cap number for 2011 will be set at $120 million dollars with and estimated 90% spending floor.

I found a few links that gave some of the cap numbers. This article took place BEFORE we cut the 6 veterans we cut, and this article says we get to knock about $17 mill off of that figure:

Before cuts: Cleveland $99.2 million (estimate)
After cuts: Cleveland: $82.2 mill (estimate)

2011 NFL cap as of now: $120 mill - $82 mill = $38 mill in free space (estimated)

We're going to have to spend at least $108 mill, so that's at least $26 mill in cap space we must spend on our rookies and free agents.

Here are some of the more points I saw and some thingsthat would directly effect us...

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With the sides working at a frenzied pace, they reached a tentative agreement to make the 2011 salary cap $120 million, a source told ESPN.com NFL senior writer John Clayton.

The players have been willing to accept a $141 million player cost number per team since February. By agreeing to a $120 million cap, the players are allowing $21 million a team in benefits. Now that a cap number has been formed, both sides are talking about the minimum cash payroll number.

The owners talked about the "guaranteed spend" number representing close to 100 percent of the salary cap, multiple sources told Clayton. The "guaranteed spend" is the number that forces every team to put up more than 90 percent of their salary cap in cash each season.

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Quote:

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The players currently are unwilling to grant NFL teams extra right-of-first-refusals on this year's free agent class because many of them were restricted under last year's uncapped system. Owners have asked for the right to designate three free agents that would give teams the ability to match any contract the three players signed with another team.

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I really hope their is some sort of right-of-first-refusal for some players. We would most definitely use it on Eric Wright who, even though he sucked last year, is a pretty important player for us.

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High-level sources had told ESPN.com senior NFL writer John Clayton that all first rounders will get four-year deals, plus the option year, under the current proposal. That option could be executed by the team after the third or fourth year of the contract and sources told Schefter that the option will become fully guaranteed if it is exercised after the third year.

A large holdup in the talks regarding the rookie pay system had been how to structure that fifth-year option for the contracts of first-round picks. Sources told ESPN on Thursday that the sides agreed to pay the players selected with the top 10 overall picks a salary based off an average of the 10 highest-paid players at their position.

The salary in the option year for the players selected with the 11th through the 32nd overall pick will be based off an average of the third to the 25th highest salaries at each respective position, according to sources.

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Does this mean there will be a hard slotting system like the NBA has with their draft picks? Or a suggested salary like MLB has? If it's a hard slotting type system we won't see any rookie holdouts ever again.


ESPN.com

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2011 NFL cap as of now: $120 mill - $82 mill = $38 mill in free space (estimated)

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How much does Charles Johnson want?

j/c

Here's another story with most of the same info. Thought maybe it had a little extra, though.

NEW YORK (AP) -- Significant progress on a major sticking point in the NFL labor impasse -- soaring rookie salaries -- during marathon talks Thursday raised hopes that a tentative agreement in principle could perhaps come within 24 hours, according to two people familiar with the negotiations.

They cautioned, however, that other key issues remained for owners and players to resolve, including free agency and new offseason workout rules.

The people spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity because the negotiations aimed at ending the NFL's four-month-long lockout are supposed to be confidential.

With time running short to keep the preseason intact, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, NFL Players Association head DeMaurice Smith, eight owners and about a half-dozen current or former players met for a second consecutive day of lengthy negotiations -- nearly 15 hours on Thursday alone.

They were going to meet again at a Manhattan law firm on Friday as they attempt to end the sport's first work stoppage since 1987.

When the last of the participants left after 11:30 p.m. Thursday, Baltimore Ravens defensive back Domonique Foxworth noted that even after the framework for an agreement is established, "there's really no deal until our players approve it."

The NFL locked out players in March, after negotiations broke down and the old collective bargaining agreement expired, and now the preseason is fast approaching. The need to arrive at a deal becomes greater with each passing day.

The Hall of Fame game that opens the exhibition season is scheduled for Aug. 7 between the St. Louis Rams and Chicago Bears, who hope to be able to start training camp at the end of next week. Yet camps will not open without a new CBA in place.

Talks gained steam in May, overseen by a court-appointed mediator, U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan, who is on vacation this week. Boylan ordered both sides to meet with him in Minneapolis early next week, and the owners have a special meeting set for next Thursday in Atlanta, where they potentially could ratify a new deal - if one is reached by then.
Any agreement also must be voted on by groups of players, including the named plaintiffs in a class-action antitrust lawsuit pending in federal court and the NFLPA's 32 team representatives.

On rookie salaries, four people familiar with the talks said Thursday that first-round draft picks will sign four-year contracts with a club option for a fifth year. That represents a compromise; owners were hoping for five-year contracts, while players wanted highly drafted rookies to be under a team's control for only four years.

NFL owners have long sought to restrict the huge bonuses and salaries paid to unproven rookies, particularly those selected at the top of the draft. Quarterback Sam Bradford, taken No. 1 overall in 2010 by the St. Louis Rams, signed a six-year, $78 million contract that included a record $50 million in guaranteed money.

Under the system discussed Thursday, people told the AP, clubs will have an option for a fifth year on a rookie's contract for a predetermined amount based on the player's performance during the previous years of the deal.

Even once an agreement in principle on the core economic issues is drawn up, there will be more work to be done. That's because there are certain issues that won't be addressed in full until after the NFLPA re-establishes itself as a union - - a process that might take a couple of days -- and can then serve once again as a collective bargaining unit for the players.

Items that could fall under that umbrella include the league's drug-testing program, health insurance, retired players' pensions and other benefits, none of which is likely to be resolved completely while the union is still dissolved.
There's also a chance the players could pursue a lockout injunction for rookies and free agents after an appeals court ruled last week that the work stoppage could continue.
Disruptions to the planned preseason schedule would decrease the overall revenue pie -- by tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, depending on how many games are canceled. The parameters for how to divide the more than $9 billion in annual league revenues have been sketched out, but remaining hurdles include the owners' desire to have more right-of-first-refusal tags for unrestricted free agents.

The players want to get back to free agency rules similar to 2009, when a four-year veteran whose contract expired was unrestricted. That minimum shifted to six years in 2010, when there was no salary cap because owners already had declared they were opting out of the old CBA.

This week's talks in New York began Monday with two days of meetings involving primarily lawyers. Wednesday's face-to-face session that was attended by Goodell, Smith, owners and players went nearly 11 hours.

On Thursday, Goodell was joined by eight of the 10 members of the owners' labor committee, including Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys and John Mara of the New York Giants. Two new participants Thursday were Green Bay Packers CEO Mark Murphy and San Diego Chargers owner Dean Spanos.
Smith's group included Foxworth, Indianapolis Colts center Jeff Saturday, and New York Giants defensive end Osi Umenyiora. Umenyiora is one of the 10 named plaintiffs in the antitrust case against the league.

link

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How much does Charles Johnson want?

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It might be a moot point if the owners get to protect 3 FA as they want to in addition to their franchised player.

But we are Dawgs from another mother here.

One thing that tells me we might not be in as good a position to bid on the services of the top FA as it might appear, is the fact that we still need to resign JT and Hillis to secure them for the future, something that Heckert probably already has considered.

Post deleted by Referee2

So can we pretty much kibosh the whole rookie holdout concept?

How will the protecting thing work? I haven't read much on it yet...but it would be nice to have a bit of control over guys like Wright and Vickers - where even if they aren't in OUR plans we can prevent them from going to division rivals. (I'd hate to play Vickers in baltimore and wright in pittsburgh twice a year).

Post deleted by Referee2

in the interest of getting these rookies into the NFL as quickly as possible, I would think that they would not be grandfathered into the last CBA.

also, let's not forget that none of the current rookie crop has a voice in the current negotiations because they are not apart of the NFLPA (though that is technically acting as a trade association because we all believe that one)

Post deleted by Referee2

Yes, you all might be right about them being under the new CBA, I guessed as much with my last statement. The only thing that kept me thinking about them being under the old CBA was that they were drafted during that CBA so........maybe, maybe not. Oh well. Good for Bradford, bad for everyone after.

But really, the 4-year deal with a team option "franchise salary" for the 5th year really helps both sides. If that's true, I think everyone wins. No more 5 or 6-year deals as rookies. Essentially, they all get 4-year deals and a franchise option on the 5th year.

I'm still waiting on the franchise tag. I bet it's still there but a team can only use it once for one player. They wouldn't be able to use a tag on the same player every year.

It will be fun talking about all the new changes with the CBA on here for months.

Here is a article that has the teams that could have trouble with this cap

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6749994

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Mark Maske of the Washington Post reports that a Collective Bargaining Agreement is so close to finalization that a full preseason is expected for the NFL.

The August 7 Hall of Fame game is on schedule. "Many people believe an agreement in principle is actually done," reports Maske. "... There are very few issues that remain unsettled." Friday evening, NFL Network's Albert Breer reported that an agreement is expected "early next week," and "almost nothing can stop it now." ESPN's Chris Mortensen adds that the owners have "abandoned" the idea of rights of first refusal. Teams will receive a 72-hour window to re-sign their own free agents before the open market arrives.

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http://rotoworld.com/playernews/nfl/football

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Teams will receive a 72-hour window to re-sign their own free agents before the open market arrives.

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Can you say "free-for-all"! This is going to be a very busy next few weeks! Just gimmee some football!

I think that teams should be able to "buy" a right of first refusal.

For example ..... a player goes out and signs a deal with another team for 4 years at $30 million. His original team should be able to buy his deal for 110% of the contract he signed with another team. So the player gets 4 years at $33 million, but stays with his original team. Give teams 2 of these per year, and do away with the franchise/transition tags. Also do away with poison pills in contracts. Contracts can only be for straightforward financial terms with performance incentives.

Owners give up right of first refusal idea
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on July 15, 2011, 7:41 PM EDT
The Bribe

All along, PFT has advanced the idea that the owners’ idea about obtaining the right of first refusal with for three free agents this year made little sense and was something the players should refuse.

It looks like the owners have given up on the idea too.

Chris Mortensen of ESPN reports the owners have abandoned the concept. Teams will have a 72-hour window before free agency starts, which we’re calling “Tampering Season.” (Although that’s likely already happening.)

With this issue out of the way, Judy Battista of the New York Times reports the only real remaining issues left are how the antitrust case and TV contract lawsuits will be resolve. She says we’re on the brink of a deal.

There’s only so many ways we can keep saying that the deal is nearly done. But it’s pretty fun to say.
PFT

This is good because it opens up a ton of free agents for us to potentially sign. But it is also bead because Eric Wright will be unrestricted.

Buccaneers have 55 mil able to spend