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Equal means equal, though. If a woman wants to have the baby and the man doesn't, he pays. If a man wants to keep the baby and the woman doesn't, perhaps she should have it and give it to him....and pay.
Something like that is more "fair" than I want the baby, but you don't, so you're free from your stupidity.
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Anyway, back to the prior discussion...isn't there some other way to make it all "fair" without letting the men get out of responsibility? I think there is. I'm just wondering if anyone else has ideas. I'll share mine after work.
Maybe we should all carry binding contracts/waivers to go a long with birth control.
The issue of entrapment is a real problem. I know because I felt trapped into fatherhood (she was supposed to be on the pill) yes nothing is 100% safe and end the end I would not trade my child for all the money in the world, but like I said entrapment is a real issue.
If a person gives you a STD without telling you first, prior to having sex. That person could be prosecuted by the law, so why then shouldn't they be required by law to say weather or not they are on birth control ect...?
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Equal means equal, though. If a woman wants to have the baby and the man doesn't, he pays. If a man wants to keep the baby and the woman doesn't, perhaps she should have it and give it to him....and pay.
Something like that is more "fair" than I want the baby, but you don't, so you're free from your stupidity.
No it isn't, you are forcing the woman to carry to term and forcing the man to be a parent.
You aren't granting equal choice for all parties....only a select subclass.....I am pretty sure the number of men seeking to be a single parent is pretty small.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Maybe we should all carry binding contracts/waivers to go a long with birth control.
Hey, if it's legally binding and stands up in court, I say do it. If a person is a slut and sleeps around having unprotected sex when they don't want to be a parent, then do what you have to do. Good luck getting anyone to sign it, though. 
The thing is...it is the easiest thing in the world for a man to use a condom. Pill or no pill, why trust it? Two barriers are always better than one to avoid conception, no?
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Equal means equal, though. If a woman wants to have the baby and the man doesn't, he pays. If a man wants to keep the baby and the woman doesn't, perhaps she should have it and give it to him....and pay.
Something like that is more "fair" than I want the baby, but you don't, so you're free from your stupidity.
No it isn't, you are forcing the woman to carry to term and forcing the man to be a parent.
You aren't granting equal choice for all parties....only a select subclass.....I am pretty sure the number of men seeking to be a single parent is pretty small.
Okay....I guess your way is best, then. Let the guys off the hook if they want to be. GREAT idea.
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Okay....I guess your way is best, then. Let the guys off the hook if they want to be. GREAT idea.
If one can get off the hook for any reason under the sun, so should the other.
My real idea is to not allow them, but since that won't be discussed, I am tired of discussing it and have given in to the idea of abortion, but as a advocate for equal rights, i see no other option but to allow men to abort their responsibility to a fetus they don't want.
Remember, this isn't a child he is abandoning...it's a glob of cells that can't be called a child...right??
File the papers with the court absolving him of all responsibility.
Naturally he would have to declare the intent within the same guideline as to when it is too late for a woman to willfully abort.
I'll even go so far as to say give him two weeks less then the woman so if he backs out late, she has a couple of weeks to think about it.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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whatever. I initially responded diplomatically, but obviously you don't care to. again, I will repeat: Quote:
As I have mentioned many times before, I understand that not everyone agrees with my stance of where life begins. I understand that it is a gray area and that some measure of compromise must be made there (even if I full-heartedly disagree with any compromise).
and the 'burden of a child' would be among the last reasons that I am hopeful that my wife, sisters, mother, and daughter are never raped.
#gmstrong
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Equal means equal, though. If a woman wants to have the baby and the man doesn't, he pays. If a man wants to keep the baby and the woman doesn't, perhaps she should have it and give it to him....and pay.
Something like that is more "fair" than I want the baby, but you don't, so you're free from your stupidity.
She probably should but do you ever envision a law that requires an 18 year old girl to carry a baby to term that she doesn't want because the 21 year old father wants it? Ain't going to happen... plus you would end up with court battle after court battle because it is my guess that after giving birth many of these young moms would change their mind and decide they want to keep it... or they get to term and the father decides he made a mistake and wants to give it up...... then you would have the grandparents who have no legal standing in the argument but would certainly jump in... There certainly is no answer to this that is going to make all parties happy... and the more I think about it, the system we have might be about as good as it gets..  
Michelle, one of the reasons I was careful when I was younger was because my father TOLD ME that I would do the right thing if I got a girl pregnant and I wanted to go to college and do all of that stuff.. Had I know that I could walk away from both my financial and my societal obligations, I can't say I would have been as careful. In that respect I agree with you...
For some reason the mantra "Keep your laws off my wallet" isn't nearly as catchy as "Keep your laws off my body" 
yebat' Putin
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Michelle, one of the reasons I was careful when I was younger was because my father TOLD ME that I would do the right thing if I got a girl pregnant and I wanted to go to college and do all of that stuff.. Had I know that I could walk away from both my financial and my societal obligations, I can't say I would have been as careful. In that respect I agree with you...
And that's really my only point here...if you aren't going to be held responsible...well, why be responsible and safe? I'm sure a lot of guys would use it as a "morning after" type pill.
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The problem is, and I think most would agree, up to and including conception it is a 50-50 responsibility on making sure that adequate protection is used and both parties share equally in that responsibility.. but if that's not done, from that moment forward, the girl holds all of the cards in what happens.. I just really have no idea how to make it "fair"...
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but if that's not done, from that moment forward, the girl holds all of the cards in what happens.. I just really have no idea how to make it "fair"...
I get it, I really do. But, the way it stands because women are the ones that get pregnant, it is what it is. There are reasons God made it this way.
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There are reasons God made it this way.
I know and I say this in all seriousness.. the reason is because He made women more responsible... I'm not saying this to place blame or absolve men of responsibility but men are by nature more reckless, take more chances etc... women are supposed to be more responsible, more family focused, more concerned about the children.. I have NO DOUBT that is why God gave you the organs he did and me the organs he did... because they fit our personality...
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j/c
My thought process was, why not go around and offer vasectomies in highly populated areas that seem to have the most influx of newborns.
I don't mean to stereotype, but say you went to your average "hood" and offered every male there five grand and a free vasectomy... I'm sure a large number of them would take it, and the over population and welfare seekers would have less chance...
If you had offered me that when I was 19, I would of taken it in a heartbeat...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If you had offered me that when I was 19, I would of taken it in a heartbeat...
I'm glad they didn't or I would never had my daughter.
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If you had offered me that when I was 19, I would of taken it in a heartbeat...
I'm glad they didn't or I would never had my daughter.
And I would of never had my son...
But at 19 I was single, never wanted kids or to be married, at 20 I was a father of two and engaged... Life changes that fast, I wouldn't have thought anything about it back then...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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j/c . . . an overall comment to the recent discussion . . .
The thought process here is interesting on everyone's posts but, call me old fashioned, if you are willing to do the deed you must be willing to pay the price.
I was brought up that, in this country, you are free to do whatever it is you want, so long as you are willing to accept the consequences. However, many people want the joy of sex but are not willing to accept the consequences of sex, which are many and one of which is a child.
The whole concept put forth by Ballpeen about equal rights and fairness is on the surface a very valid point but it isn't really about equal rights and fairness but rather a means of avoiding responsibility in the guise of equality. A very clever, and up till now, argument I have never heard of before. (thanks Peen, that's why I come to this board!)
The days of Ozzie and Harriet and Wally and the Beav' are over and these days it is about convenience and guilt-free, responsibility-free actions.
The bottom line revolves around responsibility. Abortion and men aborting their rights to a child are about responsibility as far as I am concerned. As long as we don't--as a society or as a government--place a greater emphasis on people being responsible for their actions we will continue to have these discussions two years from now, five years from now, ten years from now.
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My general reply to that is, the way it is now, is the way it is now, and it's not going to change.
A large percentage of the population act a certain way, and no amount of classes or training will change that...
So you can either live with the outcome, or try to change something else to lessen the effect that percentage has on society...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I was brought up that, in this country, you are free to do whatever it is you want, so long as you are willing to accept the consequences. However, many people want the joy of sex but are not willing to accept the consequences of sex, which are many and one of which is a child.
Re-posted for ear-ringing truth. Thank you BCB.
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I was brought up that, in this country, you are free to do whatever it is you want, so long as you are willing to accept the consequences.
46% of the people in this country receive some form of government assistance and you want to talk about accepting consequences for your actions... 
Wait, that's not funny.. 
yebat' Putin
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My problem with government assistance has always been... The less you try, the more they help you... If you're a family of four, that's just barely making it, they probably won't help you (believe me I know from experience) But if you sit on your ass all day and don't try at all... Here's free money!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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But if you sit on your ass all day and don't try at all... Here's free money!
That, to a certain extent, is the point.
Look, our welfare system is not designed to assist or help springboard. We may say that's what it is, or what it should be used for, but when you get down to the mechanics ... it's a tool for placating the marginalized.
In our economic system, especially with alterations due to technology, we really don't have use for about 10-15% of the population. And that number is rising.
A great deal of it comes down to what to do with these people. And our answer, for a long time, has been to send them checks and hope they just stay quiet and out of the way.
And for the most part, they do.
It's a backhanded bribe. Nothing more. Nothing less.
And that's not accidental.
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The whole concept put forth by Ballpeen about equal rights and fairness is on the surface a very valid point but it isn't really about equal rights and fairness but rather a means of avoiding responsibility in the guise of equality. A very clever, and up till now, argument I have never heard of before. (thanks Peen, that's why I come to this board!)
Thanks.....not only for the words but understanding the broader message.
Our society has become a society who doesn't want to face up to responsibilities.
My only contention is if women don't have to face up to theirs, men shouldn't have to either....freedom to choose...
It's somehow still the mans fault and responsibility....this goes back to the days women stayed at home and didn't work outside the home.....but times have changed.
As I said....I am against abortion thought not as strongly as a fundamentalist...there are circumstances where terminating a pregnancy are valid....we can all pretty much figure those out and for the most part are a very small percentage of the total number of abortions performed.
Freedom to choose sounds great....until we start talking about mens freedom to choose....then all of a sudden it creates a problem, and why I feel a womans freedom to choose is bogus. It's not a choice. It's a reaction to a choice.
As you said....it's simply failing to face up to your responsibility.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I look at this like a business deal, where the man has a 10% equity for putting up the seed money and the woman has a 90% equity for building the enterprise brick by brick over several months. The man has no vote but is required to continue to put up operating capital once they have established a going concern. He agreed to this implicitly during the initial transaction. Over many years, his equity position will increase until they are equal partners.
Try to convince a court, or a woman for that matter, that she only should get 10% in child support/alimony
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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I look at this like a business deal, where the man has a 10% equity for putting up the seed money and the woman has a 90% equity for building the enterprise brick by brick over several months. The man has no vote but is required to continue to put up operating capital once they have established a going concern. He agreed to this implicitly during the initial transaction. Over many years, his equity position will increase until they are equal partners.
Try to convince a court, or a woman for that matter, that she only should get 10% in child support/alimony
At this point, I know 2 women who would settle for 10% (as of right now, they're both owed thousands, each). But, both men shirked responsibility, and their legally binding agreements, to jump ship and leave the country.
RIP My Love
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20 years was not enough
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I'd consider doing the same if I was about to lose everything and have to give the rest the I haven't earned yet up after I earned it in the future
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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LOL! Oddly enough, both men come from very wealthy families (or at least wealthy enough to fly them in and out of the US to Europe and Africa on more than one occasion). These are just a-hole guys but, on the bright side, they don't get to see their children growing up. 
RIP My Love
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20 years was not enough
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they don't get to see their children growing up
How any father could live with that is beyond me! 
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they don't get to see their children growing up
How any father could live with that is beyond me!
No kidding. Anyone that fathers a child and then doesn't care to support them or be a part of their life is truly a low life arse.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Same with the moms.... Just sayin'. 
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When my kids where young and me and their mother divorced. My boss at the time used to get pissed off at me for not working over (Because one might have a game ect...) Or Saturdays, which I took them every weekend and we both would celebrate holidays with them, but this man tells me in a sarcastic tone "I wish I could be like you and turn down money just to see my kids and hey they are going to grow up with or without you"  The sad thing is that he had two of his own and although he and his wife stayed together his kids grew up to be in and out of rehabs and or jail. He thought he could simply buy good children with all of his money. Child support is not all that goes into being a good parent, but I would have given them my last dime and they know that I would. I guess some will never understand the rewards of being a (good) parent. It killed me to not be able to see them each and every day, so I will never understand some people who don't have anything to do with raising their children and I have met countless SOB's who did not.
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I guess some will never understand the rewards of being a (good) parent.
Amen! I still remember the look on the case worker when I said I wanted to raise my support, she was are you sure? She said that I was the 1st. in all the year's she worked there.
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I guess some will never understand the rewards of being a (good) parent.
Amen! I still remember the look on the case worker when I said I wanted to raise my support, she was are you sure? She said that I was the 1st. in all the year's she worked there.
Mine was set pretty high right from the start, but even in hard times I never petitioned the court to have it lowered.
After all, how can one put a price on ones child? I could not.
The hard part was trying to support 2 family's after I remarried. I had life insurance policy/mutual fun set up as my children as beneficiary and she thought I should have changed it to her (No!) also she never received support for my step Sons.
She would say to me that she fell in love with me in part due to the father I was, but the whole time she was jealous with envy towards my kids.
She even had the nerve to take their pictures off of the walls in the living room.
Need less to say it was a mistake on my part. Again 
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Dosn't sound like it to me, you sound an awfull ;ot lik me I still take care of my step son , after all I raised him since he was 10 months old, he still call's me dad .
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Dosn't sound like it to me, you sound an awfull ;ot lik me I still take care of my step son , after all I raised him since he was 10 months old, he still call's me dad .
Yeah, your right. I don't regret raising my step Sons. Both moved in with me and even worked with me not long after we separated.
Both consider me their father and both have families of their own and are loving fathers. They were only 3 and 5 years old when I met their mother, so I basically was the only father they knew.
They did know their father. We had him over on christmas one year (it was my idea) I was on the camcorder and watch them open the gifts and they thank their father even though he brought no gifts.
It was I thought the best gift I could give them, because they could at least have the memory that their real father cared about them enough to remember them on christmas even though all he really cared about was his next hit off his crack pipe.
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good post.
guy sounds like a dick, but I don't know the whole story.
even if he is married, he may be in a crappy marriage and not want to leave--some of his doing, some of his wife's doing.
some people have kids to compete with their neighbors, friends, peers...just as they would with jobs, cars, etc.
I think Casey Anthony is the winner in all of this. She'll get out of jail, get bodyguards, change her name, get plastic surgery go into the WPP (witness protection program) and live a happy life full of awesomeness. She'll probably get a new SSN.
She could move to Cleveland/Chesterland, for instance, under a new name and nobody would know.
Solution--even if she has bodyguards, people with tactical training and military know-how, can pose a threat to her.
Last edited by AsianDawg; 07/14/11 05:13 PM.
Go Browns!
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How would she ever get into a witness protection program? As far as I know, she wouldn't qualify for such a thing.
However, people have a very short memory. Further, if she changes her 1st name to "Cathy" or something like that ... or even "CJ" .. then who would put that together with her name? Anthony is a pretty common surname, and in a few months, most people will have forgotten about this whole thing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Remember, this isn't a child he is abandoning...it's a glob of cells that can't be called a child...right??
that depends on who you talk to,,,,, There is accepted science on the matter, but even it's being questioned now..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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She'll be able to fall off the radar.
Once it is off the TV, which it soon will, people will soon forget....add in a new haircut, hair color, pack on a few pounds, and she is gone.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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She packs on a few pounds she'll be gone... alone.
#GMSTRONG
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She packs on a few pounds she'll be gone... alone.
Maybe so.....but people do put on weight....change her hair....add 10-15 lbs which isn't out of the norm and she is gone.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Casey Anthony found NOT GUILTY
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