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HoF game is canceled.
Just heard that on channel 3
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Quote:
Quote:
HoF game is canceled.
Just heard that on channel 3
Man that sucks for Canton.. the local economy is going to take a hit.
#GMSTRONG
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Not so fast. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ement-with-nfl/Report: De Smith tells player reps there is “no agreement” with NFL Posted by Mike Florio on July 21, 2011, 8:08 PM EDT To put a twist on T.O.’s catch phrase, get your cold water ready. After several days in which it looked like the NFLPA* was making an eleventh-hour power play against the league, it could be that the league is trying to make a twelfth-hour power play against the NFLPA*. And it looks like it won’t work. On the heels of an ominous e-mail that was directed by an unknown sender (likely Jeffrey Kessler) to unknown recipients (likely the board of player representatives), Jim Trotter of SI.com and ESPN’s Chris Mortensen have obtained a copy of the e-mail sent by NFLPA* executive director DeMaurice Smith to the board of player representatives. Here’s the full text, as Trotter posted on Twitter, with edits to make it more easily readable. “As you know the Owners have ratified their proposal to settle our differences,” the e-mail states. “It is my understanding they are forwarding it to us. As you may have heard, they apparently approved a supplemental revenue sharing proposal. Obviously, we have not been a part of those discussions. As you know from yesterday, issues that need to be collectively bargained remain open other issues such as workers compensation, economic issues and end of deal terms remain unresolved. There is no agreement between the NFL and the Players at this time. I look forward to our call tonight.” Gulp. Folks, there’s no way the NFLPA* will be approving the deal tonight or passing it along to the players for a vote. And once the league has to start canceling preseason weeks and not just one preseason game, real money is going to disappear — and the chances of getting a deal done will diminish.
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They have until Tuesday to sign off on it. I'll sleep okay tonight.
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I'm not reading that as if it's saying, NO DEAL.. I'm reading it as if they haven't seen the CBA the Owners have ratified yet but there are things left unfinished.
that's my take, but again, I'm trying my best to be optimistic..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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Maybe not .....  http://www.cbssports.com/#!/BREAKING NEWS NFL players choose not to hold a vote on the proposed CBA that the owners ratified Thursday night. http://www.cbssports.com/#!/nfl/story/15341307/nfl-players-choose-not-to-vote-on-owners-proposalNFL players choose not to vote on owners' proposal CBSSports.com wire reports July 21, 2011 WASHINGTON -- NFL players end conference call without voting on owners' proposed labor deal.
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 07/21/11 10:28 PM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Maybe not .....
http://www.cbssports.com/#!/
BREAKING NEWS
NFL players choose not to hold a vote on the proposed CBA that the owners ratified Thursday night.
http://www.cbssports.com/#!/nfl/story/15341307/nfl-players-choose-not-to-vote-on-owners-proposal
NFL players choose not to vote on owners' proposal
CBSSports.com wire reports
July 21, 2011
WASHINGTON -- NFL players end conference call without voting on owners' proposed labor deal.
CBS should really do a better job of reporting. Both NFLN and ESPN mentioned that the call was with the 32 player reps, not all of the 1900 or so players. The reps don't have the power to vote on behalf of the 1900 players. As such, of course they couldn't vote.
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Everyone keeps saying the owners are trying to pull a fast one by voting for the CBA and putting it to the players...
What were they supposed to do? Not vote?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yeah. The parts I don't understand about that are:
1) they've been meeting the the NFLPA daily including today, I find it hard to believe that this wasn't brought up
2) they've said publicly today was the goal date
3) DeSmith sent out emails to reps with questioning the legality of the owner’s proposal before the conference call tonight. They didn’t include the details of the deal?
4) they wouldn't be here if the NFL and NFLPA leadership didn't have an agreement in principle. if DeSmith isn't communicating, it isn't the owners fault
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Then theres the whole revenue sharing gimmick...
D. Smith has been quoted as saying thats something for the owners to fix by themselves...
Now he's complaining that its in the CBA even though they didn't agree to it?
Come on now...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I've been on the owners side of this thing since the beginning, but hey things change.
The only way to hurt the owners is going to be to cancell games, otherwise they didn't really lose much in this labor dispute but they did (hopefully) make an effort to fix the skyrocketing rookie salaries.
Since the players have pretty much agreed to the major issues of bringing things back to reality of fairness, if they want to take their time before signing an agreement, I support that. Why?
Well pre-season games are just a revenue stream for the owners, they don't even keep track of wins and losses, (maybe they do, but you know nobody remembers)
And most of the players don't even play anyway.
And if they have a pre-season it is just a chance for someone to shine and take a job of an established veteran, so sure an established veteran looking to not lose his job would have an interest in cancelling a pre-season game.
OH but the players will lose money along with the owners, ( I don't think it's really that simple, see its one thing the moneys not there but its not like they play that cancelled game for free, they don't put themselves out there for risk.
I'm pretty hopeful they ( the players) can hold out until about 3 weeks of the regular season get cancelled and then start the season.
Did ya ever notice how whether it is the collective bargaining agreement, or raising the debt ceiling, or the Casey Anthony trial, how the entirety of the Media propagandizes that one option Hasssss to be done or Chaos will result ?
I love it when the media doesn't get their way, because anyone trying to force their agenda isn't being fair and isn't unbiased.
If they miss 4 pre-season weeks, and 3 regular season weeks, how much money would Both sides lose?
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If they miss 4 pre-season weeks, and 3 regular season weeks, how much money would Both sides lose?
A lot. I know they make $200 million off the pre-season alone.
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I'm ok with getting a refund for the first missed preseason game plus interest. I've always advocated half price for preason.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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I wouldn't mind that either.
That said, I was hoping to start making hotel reservations this weekend and look for seat mates for the games which I will have a extra ticket.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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...jc...
I'm glad to see the players put the brakes on this deal.
Taking the time to read and understand the fine print is important given the fact this is a 10 yr deal.
At the very least, this appears to be a power play by the owners.
At the worst, it may have been an attempt to con the players into quickly signing a deal that has elements within that might not be in the best interest of the players.
The players should take the time to study the deal and if there are issues that need addressing...back to table we go.
Last edited by mac; 07/22/11 08:19 AM.
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Just clicking
Let me see if I have the time line right
The players and league negotiate for months and it comes down to the last week or so.
A CBA agreement must have been reached because both sides were talking deal
Owners vote on and ratifiy a CBA supposedly based on the negotiations with the players
Before the players even get a chance to read the final cut of the CBA the Owners approved, they start yapping about it not being what they agreed to (if they hadn't read it, how the hell do they know)
Now it's in the hands of the players. Depending on who you talk to, they will or will not vote today and it will or will not be ratified by the players.
Am I up to speed?
If the owners threw in a wrinkle at the last minute, I can understand the players reluctance to approve the deal. The trouble is, we (the fans) really don't have any way of knowing that.
#GMSTRONG
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Q and A with Grossi Quote:
NFL lockout: Tony Grossi addresses frequently asked questions
Published: Friday, July 22, 2011, 1:00 AM Updated: Friday, July 22, 2011, 7:39 AM
By Tony Grossi, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer
View full size
John Bazemore, Associated PressNFL Commissioner Roger Goodell announces that NFL owners have agreed to a tentative agreement that would end the lockout, pending player approval.
NFL owners voted to end their four-month lockout of players by ratifying a global settlement with the players association on Thursday in Atlanta.
The settlement includes a 10-year collective bargaining agreement, a timeline to restart the football season, new rules on free agency, a lower wage scale for rookies, a larger training camp roster, reduction of practice time and contact before and during the season, and up to $1 billion in new funding for retiree benefits. But nothing will happen until the players ratify the settlement and agree to recertify their union. And that may not happen as smoothly as the league wants.
Why would the players balk at approving the deal and getting back to the business of football?
They still have a number of unresolved differences and feel NFL owners are trying to rush them into an agreement. The league's announcement has backed the players into a corner and set them up to be the bad guys after locking them out for four months.
If the players fall in line, when does everything start?
Players under contract would report to their clubs Saturday for voluntary training, conditioning and classroom instruction. At the same time, clubs could begin renegotiating current contracts and sign drafted rookies and their own free agents. The league will issue the list of unrestricted and restricted free agents. Clubs can start negotiating with them but not sign them.
What about undrafted free agents?
Clubs can start signing them at 2 p.m. Sunday.
And when does free agency kick off?
Teams can start signing veteran free agents Wednesday. That's the official start of the 2011 league business year. Rosters are expanded to 90 players on that day. All clubs must be under the salary cap of $120.3 million with their top 51 player contracts.
When do training camps start?
All teams open Wednesday -- but only if the players have ratified the deal. The first three days of camp will be light -- physicals, meetings and conditioning on Day 1, and no pads permitted the next two days.
Have any other preseason games been canceled?
None other than the Pro Football Hall of Fame Game. This schedule of events was written to save all the other preseason games.
When are the roster cutdowns?
First cut is to 75 players on Aug. 30. Final cut to 53 is Sept. 3.
Does this labor agreement have opt-out provisions like the last one?
No. The terms are fixed for 10 years, through the 2020 season. It also includes the 2021 draft.
So the draft is saved?
Yes, as long as the players re-certify as a union. If they don't, the NFL would lose its anti-trust exemption and any college player could beat the NFL in court and abolish the draft.
What are the terms of the draft and free agency?
The draft remains seven rounds, plus 32 compensatory picks for teams that lose free agents the previous year. Players with four accrued seasons can be unrestricted free agents if their contracts are up. Players with three seasons are restricted free agents. The franchise and transition player designations are unchanged.
How will the new rookie wage scale work?
It's not a strict slotting system like in the NBA. Rookie picks will still be able to negotiate their deals. But there is an absolute cap on what teams can use on their draft class. All drafted players will have four-year contracts. Clubs have the option to extend to a fifth year for first-round picks based on agreed-upon tender amounts. There are stronger rules to discourage holdouts.
What about any other new rules?
Because 2010 was uncapped, the next two years will serve as transition years for teams to get back into cap management form. All teams may use $3.5 million to funnel to veteran salaries, presumably to save them from being released for cap purposes. Each club also may borrow up to $3 million in cap room from a future year to support veteran player costs. In 2012, each club may borrow up to $1.5 million in the same way.
What happens to the lawsuits filed by the players and the judgment against the owners in the network TV negotiation case, the so-called lockout insurance case?
All pending litigation will be settled.
To reach this Plain Dealer reporter: tgrossi@plaind.com, 216-999-4670
On Twitter: @Tony Grossi
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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Quote:
They still have a number of unresolved differences and feel NFL owners are trying to rush them into an agreement. The league's announcement has backed the players into a corner and set them up to be the bad guys after locking them out for four months.
This is the power play by the owners. It's become a high-pressure sales pitch to the players to sign it by Tuesday or lose their public backing. All while slipping a few extra bits in (supposedly) at the last second. I wouldn't be in any rush to sign it if I'm the players.
The only hope I personally had is that the HOF game could be played, knowing how important that is to the City of Canton. Now that has been cancelled, it doesn't matter to me if the whole pre-season is lost.
The players shouldn't sign anything unless they are totally comfortable with it and shun any perceived public pressure put on them by the owners.
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*In Baker we trust*
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One would think, if both sides were negotiating in good faith, any final agreement would be reviewed by both sides, before there was any talk of either side voting.
For the owners to vote on a deal that has not been seen by the players reps and their lawyers, hold a press conference, laying out a schedule of events with dates for opening the gates for training, conditioning programs, free agency, signing undrafted rookies, etc... "assuming" the players won't care about reviewing the "fine print"...might have been a miscalculation by the owners.
...imo, it makes no sense for the players to get in a hurry, just because the owners like the deal and want to move forward quickly.
...if there are issues, they will need to be ironed out. If the owners and players can quickly address any outstanding issues, the NFL might be back in business, according to the schedule the owners laid out yesterday.
...if outstanding issues are not minor in nature, it might take more time and the schedule the owners laid out might need to be adjusted.
It all depends on the review process the players started after they received the agreement the owners vote on, but did not show the players, in advance.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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mac on the side of the union? no way  outside of that: honestly, this is all much ado about nothing. players have a few days to take their time and make sure to go back through it and possibly even add a couple tweaks before voting.
#gmstrong
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Less time pressure to sign with HoF game out. If it is a good agreement for extended time, let's play ball. Gear up already. But players should scoot some. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
For the owners to vote on a deal that has not been seen by the players reps and their lawyers, hold a press conference, laying out a schedule of events with dates for opening the gates for training, conditioning programs, free agency, signing undrafted rookies, etc... "assuming" the players won't care about reviewing the "fine print"...might have been a miscalculation by the owners.
Well Geez Mac,, where would you like them to start?
Look, if the two sides came to an understanding and one side got a chance to vote on it,,, so be it. Remember something, the owners only needed to count 32 votes, the players need to count 1900.
One of the two entities had to step up and get something done.
Now, having said that, I would understand if the players wanted to review the CBA before agreeing to it. hell that makes a ton of sense.
But the problem is, before it was even distributed to the players, some of them were yapping about how they had been bamboozzled, hoodwinked etc etc.
How in the hell could they know that if they hadn't reviewed the document in the first place.
This is postering.. plain and simple. and it's postering by both sides. The owners have backed the players into a corner.. and the players, instead of keeping thier collective yaps shut, they start crying foul..
Time for both sides to stop talking to the press, quit postering and just get the deal done.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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mac on the side of the union? no way
Politics making their way into one of the few, non political threads on dawgtalkers.com, no way
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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From what I have read, the players told the owners that revenue sharing, along with some other issues, were to be decided by the owners, and not by the players. They told the owners to decide how to handle those items. The owners did, then voted on what they had agreed on. Now the players are balking. They are balking without ever having reviewed what the owners agreed to ...... on what were issues that the players said were "owners' only issues" to start with. Ridiculous.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Looks like they won't vote today either. I really hope they aren't planning to take the weekend off. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/espn-backs-off-friday-vote-prediction/ESPN backs off prediction that players will vote Friday Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on July 22, 2011, 10:55 AM EDT On Thursday night, ESPN’s lockout coverage had a big banner in the upper left corner of my television screen. “PLAYERS TO VOTE FRIDAY,” it said. Later in the night, we noticed it was changed to: “PLAYERS EXPECTED TO VOTE FRIDAY.” Now ESPN’s Chris Mortensen is backing off that timeline. Speaking on SportsCenter Friday, Mort reported it was “unlikely” the players would vote on a new CBA on Friday. That decision is in part because of a difficult timeline. NFLPA* DeMaurice Smith is at Myra Kraft’s funeral in Boston Friday. That helps put in perspective how trivial this labor drama is when you take a step back from things. Mortensen is hearing from the NFLPA* that call with a vote could be possible Friday night, but more likely it would take place on the weekend or early next week. If there is no vote Friday, the timeline of free agency the league optimistically announced Thursday would presumably changed. We’re not picking on Mort here. He broke a lot of ground throughout Thursday and kept viewers up to date throughout the process. His information on a likely Friday vote yesterday came directly from NFLPA* leadership, according to his reporting. Once again, it’s a reminder that no one knows exactly how this will all end. Not even those leading the process.
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I'm thinking the players are now looking to extend their summer break and knock out a few training camp days
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That's really funny Rambo,,, I just had ESPN on about a 1/2 hour ago and Mortenson was saying he expects the vote to happen today... Wierd
#GMSTRONG
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It's hard to believe what any of these reporters say anymore.
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Quote:
It's hard to believe what any of these reporters say anymore.
Yeah that's so true.. it's like they are all trying to scoop each other and in the process, there seems to be a ton of jumping to conclusions.. makes for interesting conversation but for those that just want the right answer, it's annoying as hell.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
It's hard to believe what any of these reporters say anymore.
Yeah that's so true.. it's like they are all trying to scoop each other and in the process, there seems to be a ton of jumping to conclusions.. makes for interesting conversation but for those that just want the right answer, it's annoying as hell.
Yes sir it is.
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No disrespect intended, but I could see the NFLPA using Myra Kraft's funeral as an excuse not to vote today, judging by Kevin Mawue's recent statements.
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Just clicking More of the same Quote:
NFL players discussing owners' proposal, won't comment further today
Published: Friday, July 22, 2011, 11:31 AM Updated: Friday, July 22, 2011, 11:46 AM
By Associated Press sports staff The Plain Dealer
WASHINGTON — NFL Players Association president Kevin Mawae says his group's leadership is discussing the terms of "the most recent written proposal" from owners.
Mawae's statement was issued by the NFLPA on Friday — a day after owners voted for a tentative deal, provided that players approve it, too, and re-establish their union.
He says the proposal being reviewed Friday includes a settlement agreement, economic terms and the process for turning the NFLPA back into a union.
He also says the NFLPA will not make further statements Friday out of respect of Robert Kraft's family. The funeral for the wife of the New England Patriots' owner is today.
© 2011 cleveland.com. All rights reserved.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
For the owners to vote on a deal that has not been seen by the players reps and their lawyers, hold a press conference, laying out a schedule of events with dates for opening the gates for training, conditioning programs, free agency, signing undrafted rookies, etc... "assuming" the players won't care about reviewing the "fine print"...might have been a miscalculation by the owners.
Well Geez Mac,, where would you like them to start?
Look, if the two sides came to an understanding and one side got a chance to vote on it,,, so be it. Remember something, the owners only needed to count 32 votes, the players need to count 1900.
One of the two entities had to step up and get something done.
Now, having said that, I would understand if the players wanted to review the CBA before agreeing to it. hell that makes a ton of sense.
But the problem is, before it was even distributed to the players, some of them were yapping about how they had been bamboozzled, hoodwinked etc etc.
How in the hell could they know that if they hadn't reviewed the document in the first place.
This is postering.. plain and simple. and it's postering by both sides. The owners have backed the players into a corner.. and the players, instead of keeping thier collective yaps shut, they start crying foul..
Time for both sides to stop talking to the press, quit postering and just get the deal done.
Daman...sounds like you agreeing with me...
The owners may have taken this step, thinking they had the players backed into a corner, but in reality, the only way the players are backed into a corner is if they simply do as the owners want...vote on the contract without knowing exactly what is in it.
It was the owners who went to the press announcing 31 owners voted for the contract and then boldly laying out the schedule of events that would be taking place...free agency, training camp, etc.
...just one problem, the owners only agreed "with themselves".
...I guess the owners along with Roger Goodell, actually thought the Union Reps and their lawyers would just schedule a vote without reading the contract details.
...like I said, that appears to be a miscalculation on the owners part.
I just heard, the Union has decided not to schedule a vote today, out of respect for the Robert Kraft family...Myra Kraft's funeral is today.
I'm sure, after the contract language is reviewed and understood by all parties, there will be a vote.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
Daman...sounds like you agreeing with me...
Then you have a hearing problem. Actually, in as much as you may feel the Owners have backed the players in a corner,, yeah, on that we probalby do agree,
But you portrayed as if the Owners are the bad guys and from my perspective, the owners own the business and the players are mere employees. as such, if the players want to call the shots, then let them pony up the money to start a league...Let them take the financial risks if they are so keen on taking and taking,.,.
I'm not now, nor have I ever been on the side of the players...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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J/C I wouldn't mind collecting a refund for the Green Bay game, lets drag this thing out another week. 
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j/c It appears to me, that SOMEBODY isn't telling the whole truth, and nothing but the truth... The Owners are adiment that they had a "handshake deal" with the players, and went forward and voted on the CBA... The Players claim there is no deal, and feel "bamboozled" (not my word) in this whole voting process...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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There is no way that the owners had a deal, ratified the new CBA and hoodwinked the players.
I think the players are just pissed because they feel like they are being dictated to.
Ho hum, labor negotiations are the bane of intelligent existence.
you had a good run Hank.
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I think this is all a matter of perspective. It depends on who's eyes you are looking thru. Personally, I wanted to side with the players but as I've looked at it over the last hundred or whatever days, I see points on both sides and frankly, I'm pretty firmly on the fence. Bleep them both.
Some time ago, I decided that screw them both, they have me by the short ones, I have to pay a lot of money and by golly I'm going to represent my opinions as a paying season ticket holder.
I want my preseason tickets reduced by half. The bleepers are worthless, I toss them in the trash and no one wants a ticket to a meaningless game. All for the same price of a regular season game that does mean something.
This has all been lunacy, so many are struggling (including retired NFL vets) and these morons can't get this done? Shoot, Shep and I would have had this deal done in a day and we'd be on our 4th beer. (You think the NFL and the NFLPA are far apart??)
hmmph.. I end rant.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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