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Disappointed in losing him.
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Cleveland Browns acquire Ohio native John Greco from St. Louis By Tony Grossi, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer BEREA -- The Browns swung a second trade late Saturday, acquiring St. Louis Rams guard John Greco, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Greco, a native of Youngstown who played at University of Toledo, was a third-round pick of the Rams in 2008. He had four starts in three years. He played mostly at right guard. Greco reunites wih Browns coach Pat Shurmur, who was the Rams offensive coordinator the past two years. Greco became available when the Rams signed free agent guard Harvey Dahl this week. The Browns sought a guard after two developments on Saturday. First, it was disclosed that starting left guard Eric Steinbach suffered a knee injury in the offseason and he was placed on the non-football injury list. The Browns say the injury is not serious, but Steinbach stood and watched practice Saturday with a brace on his left knee. By the end of the day, free agent Floyd Womack, who started at guard and tackle last year for the Browns, signed with the Arizona Cardinals. Terms of the trade are not known. Earlier, the Browns traded a fifth-round pick next year for Philadelphia defensive tackle Brodrick Bunkley. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/07/cleveland_browns_acquire_ohio.html Apparently we can no longer even talk about trade talks. Maybe we can actually talk about trades?
#gmstrong
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Looks like the Browns traded for a RT from the Rams! Story is
On PFT. His name is John Greco. Pretty exciting. I know nothing about him but I'm assuming it is an upgrade since we traded. I would post the link but I'm on my cell phone.
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Who did we lose ...Who did we get what the H is going on ?? so much BS on here can we just keep it to who is here who is Gone ? Vickers, Moore whoever I'm out here 90+ degree heat all day working on my house and alI read is soap opera  Maybe we need this thread & an another experts opinion thread on all that happened ..................JEEZ this board is turning into ESPN 
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Well it's official, my only questions are for how much and can he play RT?
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what are you trying to find out?
We picked up an OG (Greko) from St. Louis. We picked up a DT from Philly. We gave up a 5th and not sure what pick yet on the other.
Womack wasn't resigned. Either has Elam, Vickers, Roth. We did resign Bernard, Schaefering.
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Thank You that's what I'm talkin' about  Chop is gone We got the Greco & 34 posts posts ago we got Buckley who everybody wanted 3yrs ago what's up w/ our FA's
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Quote:
Who did we lose ...Who did we get what the H is going on ??
so much BS on here can we just keep it to who is here who is Gone ?
Vickers, Moore whoever
I'm out here 90+ degree heat all day working on my house and alI read is soap opera
Maybe we need this thread & an another experts opinion thread on all that happened ..................JEEZ this board is turning into ESPN
Good call
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First off, I'm glad I was at work and missed out on all the poo-slinging that went on here earlier. Anyway, back to what the Browns did... I like the Bunkley deal. We traded our fifth rounder for a guy who will rotate in for us at defensive tackle and play quite a bit. That's the worst case scenario because we know Bunkley can at least do that much. Not a bad deal at all. And we won't miss the fifth rounder because we already have an extra fourth rounder from the Falcons draft day trade. The second deal, a conditional seventh rounder for John Greco, I like as well. Mary Kay Cabot is reporting that we only have to give up the draft pick if Greco starts games for us. A seventh rounder is a good deal for someone who will make the team and add depth to our offensive line. If that guy can start that's just the cherry on top. And Shurmur should have intimate knowledge of Greco as he was his offensive coordinator. Also John Clayton said this about Greco (who I literally know nothing about), "Greco's rates well and might be a steal." Not bad for a seventh round pick. So far this off-season we've added Usama Young, who we expect to start at free safety, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach on that one as Young hasn't played much. Brandon Jackson was signed to be a third down/change of pace back who is a good fit because of his knowledge of the system. We've also re-signed Billy Yates (who played very well before his injury), Evan Moore, Marcus Bernard (who should at least be a good situational pass rusher), and Brian Schaefering who will probably play defensive tackle in the 4-3. With Pork Chop going to Arizona our O-Line now looks like this (correct me if I'm wrong): LT: Thomas LG: Steinbach (who is apparently injured) C: Mack, Yates RG: Lauvao, Yates RT: Pashos, Greco, Pinkston Seems pretty good if Steinbach's injury isn't too severe and if (big IF) Pashos can stay healthy. Yates and Greco seem to be pretty legit backups.
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The only time I start to look closely at trading draft picks is if it is a 4th rounder or better.
Then you are at the point you need to expect some serious return. As 4th rounder as an example should be expected to be a bottom tier to mid tier starter.
Bunkley fits the 5th round pick and Greco certainly fits a conditional 7th rounder.
The Rams knew he would have a hard time sticking this year, but was good enough he was going to get signed by someone once he was cut, so they might as well take this trade. As thin as we are, there is a good chance the guy might start a game or two.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you meant to write we resigned DE Jayme Mitchell and not Benard to a two year deal.
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Well you guys can spin this FA period anyway you want, but I am sorely disappointed!
First, this is probably the biggest FA pool in the histroy of FA. There were HUGE names available thanks to the new CBA. More importantly, there were and still are a ton of decent to quality second tier starters... Yet we'll gimp into another season with the same cast of misfits at WR, weak at DB and shaky at DL!
Now I've read all the Heckert this and Heckert that post trying to justify what I can only perceive as a total lack of preparation. Sure Heckert wants to build thru the draft and coming from the Eagles that's how it's done... I call BS! The Eagles RAPED AND PILLEDGED during this FA period.
And I also know Cleveland and the Cleveland Browns politics... Sure we'll rebuild this year and build some more thru the draft next year BUT by 2013 or 2014 the H&H experiment will have been run out on a rail without producing a winner!
I want a young team too, but I don't want a team where JOE UDFA is the highlight year in and year out! We got lucky with Hillis last year and we'll probably be served well by this years draft class, but we HAD a good opportunity to get better now and that opportunity WAS SCUANDERED.
We let some decent players walk... Young for Elam = wash. Wright for ??? = loss. Bunkley for a 5th, I can except that experiment but wow there where some FA's that were missed here!
I could go on but just consider me colored PO. This FO has had every advantage. Yes, Holmgren has had everthing he's asked for, so if I don't see a significant and I mean significant improvement by years end I will personally lead the "Fire Holmgren" fanclub. By the end of next year we need a playoff birth. I don't see it happening. I just don't.
Before the flaming starts, remember how many times you've drank the coolaid.
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Well for clarification sake we did offer Eric Wright a long term deal and for more Money, but he chose to bolt anyway and that was his choice.
So now we are in the market for another CB in a market that has been pretty much cleaned from it's stock.
My only concern is that we were not more active in trying to sign a FA DE other then Mitchell who has been penciled in at LDE.
LB Rocky Macintosh is a guy I would pursue and all indications are that the Redskins will not look to resign him.
He struggled in their new 34 last season, but was pretty effective in a starting role (WIL) with their prior 43 defense.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 07/31/11 06:51 AM.
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well, I'm not too happy that Porkchop is gone. Kinda liked the guy. He was under-rated.
I''m thinking the OL might look sometiong like this.
LT : Thomas
RG: Steinbach
C: Mack
LG: Lauvao
RT: Pashos
Back-ups:
Vallos: C/G
Yates: C/G
Greco:G
Pinkston: G/T
It looks like Pinkston is Womack's replacement as swing man. Frankly. I'd like to see the Browns jettison an interior lineman and get a tackle. I think we might be thin in the tackle area.Who knows, maybe an UDFA might make the team?
Ditto on the trades.
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Quote:
The Eagles RAPED AND PILLEDGED during this FA period.
A superbowl contender with a lot of cap space went all out?
I'm shocked.
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Quote:
Quote:
The Eagles RAPED AND PILLEDGED during this FA period.
A superbowl contender with a lot of cap space went all out?
I'm shocked.
plus they had the players acquired IN THE DRAFT to make the deals.
they also got "lucky" with Vick.
who knew Vick was a talent? 
like the phrase " raped and pillaged" BTW.
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Quote:
LT : Thomas
RG: Steinbach
C: Mack
LG: Lauvao
RT: Pashos
Back-ups:
Vallos: C/G
Yates: C/G
Greco:G
Pinkston: G/T
You forgot OG Pat Murry whom is filling in for the injured Eric Steinbach.
Greco was a Tackle at Toledo, so maybe he could fill in at RT if need be. I'm not sure?
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haven't forgot Murray as much as he hasn't been anything but a PS player.
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Quote:
Now I've read all the Heckert this and Heckert that post trying to justify what I can only perceive as a total lack of preparation. Sure Heckert wants to build thru the draft and coming from the Eagles that's how it's done... I call BS! The Eagles RAPED AND PILLEDGED during this FA period.
Im not sure if people on this board realize or not. But as an Eagles local area Dawg I can tell you that the Eagles have never at any time in the Reid era been very good at drafting. Other than McNabb there arent very many hits.
Most of the good drafted players the Eagles had over the last decade were actually leftovers from the Ray Rhodes era.
The Eagles are not the Patriots or Steelers in that regard. Not even close.
Their best non Ray Rhodes players were free agent pickups.
They have missed on 1st and 2nd round O-line/D-line and receivers constantly. As evidenced by us getting Bunkley for a 5th.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you meant to write we resigned DE Jayme Mitchell and not Benard to a two year deal.
I think we signed them both
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Been reading some Eagles posts, and the the bright side looks like he was not ideal for a 2 gap system which I gather the eagles were running, and that he could really excel in Jaurons 1 gap. One guy went so far as to say Bunkley could become a terror in a one gap. Here is to hoping these two posters are on to something. 
It's actually the exact opposite. Washburn is running a 1 gap in Philadelphia, and Bunkley doesn't fit it. The Browns will run a 2 gap (see Taylor and Rubin) and Bunkley fits that perfectly. He's only 305, but he plays like he's 330.
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Bunkley doesn't have much of a pass rush ability from what I understand.
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Quote:
Quote:
Been reading some Eagles posts, and the the bright side looks like he was not ideal for a 2 gap system which I gather the eagles were running, and that he could really excel in Jaurons 1 gap. One guy went so far as to say Bunkley could become a terror in a one gap. Here is to hoping these two posters are on to something.
It's actually the exact opposite. Washburn is running a 1 gap in Philadelphia, and Bunkley doesn't fit it. The Browns will run a 2 gap (see Taylor and Rubin) and Bunkley fits that perfectly. He's only 305, but he plays like he's 330.
We'll see about that soon...
In Washburn's scheme, the defensive ends go after the quarterback. That's been talked about to death, so we all know that, but something that's not being talked about is the fact that his defensive tackles also play a one-gap responsibility rather than two.
Under Sean McDermott (and, to a degree, Jim Johnson as well), the defensive ends were taught to look inside and play run before attack the quarterback. That half-second on every snap was the difference between a sack or a touchdown pass on several occasions.
McDermott (and, again, Johnson) also had the defensive tackles responsible for two gaps on every snap. Since they usually would line up either in, or close to, the B-gap, they would have to sit in the B-gap and squeeze the A-gap. That meant taking on the guards and driving them inside to create a pile in the middle.
That, of course, is the job description of a big defensive tackle weighing somewhere between 320-340 pounds — not for someone the size of Bunkley who is generously listed at 305 pounds.
But Bunkley did it, and did it well for a couple seasons. However, he struggled in 2010 and then injured his elbow. If it was going to be tough for him to play a two-gap system before, it was going to get even tougher with an elbow injury that was obviously going to hamper his upper-body strength.
Enter the 330-pound Antonio Dixon who fit the scheme perfectly, and we have what appears to be Dixon drastically out-playing Bunkley.
That, however, was not necessarily the case.
Bunkley is still the superior player. In a one-gap scheme he could easily be one of the most disruptive defensive tackles in the entire league. He has a very good first step off the ball and if he's allowed to use that speed through the gap rather than sitting and trying to create a stalemate at the line, we could see a very different Bunkley than we've seen recently.
Go Browns!!!
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Deep, If I read correctly the original material this is washburns first year in and the Phili poster was refering to Bunkley's production prior to this year, and he said he guess' Wash' felt the Bunk' didn't fit. Who knows tho. I am not familiar with what Phili ran on D in the past. Im Hoping with the Jenkins addition moving Bunk' to 3rd spot, it was more about the Million plus savings on what was looking to be a non 1st stringer.
To the posters penciling in Lauvoa at starting guard, don't count out Yates yet. I think he showed he deserves to be in the discussion after his play last year. Plus this Greco could walk in as day one starter at guard. Our coach clearly liked him. Love that it was only a 7th round pick. I was nervous about that.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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If that is what Bunkley does well, then by gosh, we need to let him do it.
I'd like to see someone shoot a gap once in a while to disrupt things in the backfield.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Absolutely LOVE the 2 trades...liked both Bunkley and Greco as prospects in the draft
We get a DT and G/RT in their prime for a 5th and 7th? Heckert really has a good eye for talent and value...
btw, we traded our 2012 7th to MIN for Mitchell, so I guess Greco will cost our 6th...but we still have DEN's 6th thanks to the Hillis-Quinn trade
#gmstrong
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I like these trades too!
stuff like this is what i was asking for...way to go H&H...this helps us big time...Bunkley is a good player....the dude will help us right away....i like it!
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Washburn uses his DT's to pass rush a ton, and if he thought Bunkley could get after the QB, he would have kept him. Haynesworth had 14.5 sacks his last two years in TEN, Jason Jones is a 275 pound DT who pass rushes and penetrates, and Tony Brown has about 5 sacks every year. And the Eagles just signed Cullen Jenkins to pass rush from the inside. Washburn loves pass rushing DT's.
Bunkley simply isn't a pass rusher or a penetrater. If he were, the Eagles would have kept him and played him as one, but as it is, he doesn't fit their scheme. He's still a good player but not a good fit for their team.
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Quote:
To the posters penciling in Lauvoa at starting guard, don't count out Yates yet. I think he showed he deserves to be in the discussion after his play last year. Plus this Greco could walk in as day one starter at guard. Our coach clearly liked him. Love that it was only a 7th round pick. I was nervous about that.
Yates did a yo-mans job filling in last season, but I don't think he is the future at RG and with the trade to get Greco he might have an up hill battle to simply make the teams final cuts. Lauvao can also backup Mack at Center and we have Vallos who is a Center.
Add Pinkston to the mix and his chances get even slimmer imo.
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Agreeing with FL
Yates is already 31 and this will be his 9th year in the league and he has never started more then 7 games in any one season so to expect him to be our future RG to me is wishful thinking.
#gmstrong
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thats 7 interior lineman, "If" Pinkston is an interior guy, and you count Steiny'. so you have 3 starters and 3 backups. Possibly move Pinkston or Greco to RT backuup. they all could or should make the squad unless we sign someone else. JMHO
Did Yates slide out to RT at anytime during the injury plagued portion of the season last year? I know Womack did, but he also got hurt at some point didn't he?
EDIT: after I read my own post, I realize we have absolutely no back up for JT and ?marks after Pashos. We really still need a true tackle. I don't think Pinkston will ever play the left side & may only be a guard. I do hope he can play RT though.
Last edited by RocDawg; 07/31/11 11:35 AM.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Yates is purely a guard/center. He can't play tackle (unfortunately because depth there is a big issue).
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I just read that Lofa Tatupu asked for his release. He was a beast before he got injured and has been on and off since. If he does get released, any interest?
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Thanks Deep.
How many guys played RT for us last year? was it just Pashos & Porkchop? Or am I forgetting someone?
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Quote:
Yates did a yo-mans job
Yo- man .... whachu talking bout Willis? 
We can definitely tell you were in the Marines and not the Navy. 
I agree that Yates did a yeoman's job last year at Guard.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Thanks Deep.
How many guys played RT for us last year? was it just Pashos & Porkchop? Or am I forgetting someone?
St.Clair
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I don't think Pinkston will ever play the left side & may only be a guard. I do hope he can play RT though.
Pinkston could probably play LT if we needed him too. He did play there in College.
Not many teams are lucky enough to have two LT's on their team.
We did sign a couple of Tackles who are on our roster, Phil Trautwein and Branndon Braxton, and one might be kept around. We also have Pat Murray a 2 nd year guard who is filling in for Stinny at the moment.
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