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Ok, we'll see.
Those "build through the draft" teams don't normally extend guys like JT. They franchise them 2-3 times and then let them walk at 30.
Look, so far we've done just about nothing in free agency. This league is won with talent and it's easy to have a "build through the draft" philosophy when you're already good. We're not. We have a ton of holes on our current roster and the FO is doing nothing (or their plan is to do nothing and let the draft fix them over the next 3-5 years).
Why would a guy like JT extend through his prime when we're most likely 2-3 years away from contending for anything (and that is only if we assume all the drafts go well)? It's not like this front office has shown they'll back the Brinks truck up when needed.
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Why are you unsure about our greatest weapon last year?
Don't get me wrong, I love Hillis. But I don't think spending big money on running backs is the best plan. Especially one who takes as much punishment as Hillis. Running backs are very easy to find so I don't know if it is a great idea to pay them a bunch of money. Also, I would take a wait-and-see approach with Hillis. He has had one great year. Eventually, with continued success, yes I would to sign Hillis. But he is going to get a lot of money (DeAngelo Williams just got five years $43 million with $21 million guaranteed from the Panthers) and will probably wear down quickly.
I vehemently disagree. Hillis will be resigned. Count on it!
RB's such as Peyton Hillis do not grow on tree's and if you agree then I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
C'mon you can do better then that.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 08/02/11 10:08 AM.
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I think you guys are forgetting how no one will ever want to come here, as evidenced by Bunkley refusing to report, spitting in an envelope and mailing it to Heckert, and telling all of his friends that "the Browns are doody-heads."
You got your facts all wrong man.. He did report, he did take a physical and he apparently didn't pass the physical.,
#GMSTRONG
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the Colts signed Jeff Saturday. And he was an OC not the premium LT spot. Do you think the Steeler's will let Pouncey go?
when you have a premium player, building through the draft or FA, you do not let them walk (we will franchise him if he won't sign, but there's no way I believe we wouldn't rather lock him up longterm)
#gmstrong
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Maybe - but it might not be a good move.
Look at the Brandon Jacobs career path...that's what you should expect from Hillis
~Lyuokdea
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They franchise them 2-3 times and then let them walk at 30.
"A player can only be named a franchise player two years in a row. The second year must include at least a 10 percent increase over his previous salary or the average of the top five players at his position, whichever is higher. A player cannot be given a franchise player tag three years in a row."
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It's not like this front office has shown they'll back the Brinks truck up when needed.
We haven't had to sign any of our own guys yet.
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The reason the Steelers Defense has been so good for so long, is that they've always had the ability when somones getting a little older, to let them go, instead of over paying for them, and to plug a younger guy in their spot...
The fact that they have played, and drafted for, the exact same defense for the past couple of decades doesn't hurt either.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just as a sidenote, here are some deals we could have made - that would help the team, without costing long term money (all players here have 5-6 years experience, all were signed to deals < 4 years - which means we would have only committed money for 2 years):
Josh Wilson
Charlie Johnson
Amobi Okoye
Jacoby Jones
Maybe 3 of them end up terrible - but it adds talent to your team three years down the road when you want to compete
~Lyuokdea
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How is spending money on 3 terrible players a good idea?
Your words, not mine...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Johnson took the money from his own team and it didn't seem like he ever opened up his services to anyone else to even put an offer in.
Okoye has looked terrible. He is still young, but I think he made a mistake jumping into the NFL at a young age. He never got it in Houston.
I like both Josh Wilson and Jacoby Jones. At WR, we'll see if the FO is correct in that we have enough talent on hand. But, at CB, Josh Wilson woudl have been my choice right after Carlos Rogers (who is still available).
#gmstrong
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Hillis will be resigned.
Resign - Voluntarily leave a job or other position.
Re-sign - 1. to sign again. 2. to renew or extend a contract.
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RB's such as Peyton Hillis do not grow on tree's and if you agree then I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
I do agree with you. I just don't think he will last that long.
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Johnson signed with the Vikings. Regardless, he is terrible. I'm glad we didn't sign him.
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Maybe - but it might not be a good move.
Look at the Brandon Jacobs career path...that's what you should expect from Hillis
I don't believe in judging a player by another.
Hillis may not play for 12 seasons, but he has a lot of good football left in the tank. Some of you guys act like he has been in the league for 7 or 8 years. He has had two years of full time duty. 
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Johnson signed with the Vikings. Regardless, he is terrible. I'm glad we didn't sign him.
But if we sign terrible people, it'll make our current core of players look that much better...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Maybe - but it might not be a good move.
Look at the Brandon Jacobs career path...that's what you should expect from Hillis
I don't believe in judging a player by another.
Hillis may not play for 12 seasons, but he has a lot of good football left in the tank. Some of you guys act like he has been in the league for 7 or 8 years. He has had two years of full time duty.
And what, one year in college, followed by a couple at FB?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Johnson signed with the Vikings. Regardless, he is terrible. I'm glad we didn't sign him.
sorry, thought he meant the DE (Panthers) not the OT (Colts -> Vikings).
Charles/Charlie is all the same to me 
#gmstrong
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Hillis will be resigned.
Resign - Voluntarily leave a job or other position.
Re-sign - 1. to sign again. 2. to renew or extend a contract.
This is not a news paper and you are not the editor
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How is spending money on 3 terrible players a good idea?
Your words, not mine...
Because you get a good football player- and you don't lose the ability to sign any other players (because we're not going to be anywhere near the cap this year or next year)
~Lyuokdea
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I don't believe in judging a player by another.
Hillis may not play for 12 seasons, but he has a lot of good football left in the tank. Some of you guys act like he has been in the league for 7 or 8 years. He has had two years of full time duty.
Jacobs really only had three useful seasons, before he started to decline. The lifespan of RBs is not long.
And no - judging one player by one example of another is ridiculous - but it's even crazier not to look at how similar players age (as a function of position and playing style). With the exception of Bettis, it's difficult to think of hard-hitting RBs with long NFL careers.
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How is spending money on 3 terrible players a good idea?
Your words, not mine...
Because you get a good football player- and you don't lose the ability to sign any other players (because we're not going to be anywhere near the cap this year or next year)
And then those 3 terrible players take up the spot of 3 guys we already have here who we now don't get to see as much...
Can we figure out what we have NOW before we add anything, is that ok?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think you guys are forgetting how no one will ever want to come here, as evidenced by Bunkley refusing to report, spitting in an envelope and mailing it to Heckert, and telling all of his friends that "the Browns are doody-heads."
You got your facts all wrong man.. He did report, he did take a physical and he apparently didn't pass the physical.,
His post was dripping with sarcasm. Did you not catch it?
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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And then those 3 terrible players take up the spot of 3 guys we already have here who we now don't get to see as much...
Can we figure out what we have NOW before we add anything, is that ok?
True - but I don't think any of the players I mentioned are actually worse than what's currently on the roster (that's why I only picked players at OT, DL, CB, WR - where we have a current need)
~Lyuokdea
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I'm guessing our FO is in "Let's see what we have NOW" mode... Next year can be "Let's bring in some peices" mode... Followed by "Lets sign that big FA" mode.. Ending with "We just won our 5th Super Bowl in a row" mode... 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I'm guessing our FO is in "Let's see what we have NOW" mode...
Next year can be "Let's bring in some peices" mode...
Followed by "Lets sign that big FA" mode..
Ending with "We just won our 5th Super Bowl in a row" mode...
Well - obviously that's the plan. It's also the plan of 31 other teams. The trick is actually doing the right things to implement it.
~Lyuokdea
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If we're aware that's the plan, why's everyone  ing around because we didn't sign a couple lower teir FA's?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If we're aware that's the plan, why's everyone ing around because we didn't sign a couple lower teir FA's?
I don't think it's a smart plan
~Lyuokdea
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I don't believe in judging a player by another.
Hillis may not play for 12 seasons, but he has a lot of good football left in the tank. Some of you guys act like he has been in the league for 7 or 8 years. He has had two years of full time duty.
Jacobs really only had three useful seasons, before he started to decline. The lifespan of RBs is not long.
And no - judging one player by one example of another is ridiculous - but it's even crazier not to look at how similar players age (as a function of position and playing style). With the exception of Bettis, it's difficult to think of hard-hitting RBs with long NFL careers.
Well I think it's safe to assume that Hillis has enough left to sign him to a 5 year contract.
Kevin Mack played at a high level for about 8 years.
Jim Brown played for 9 years albeit in a shorten season, but could have played even longer.
Larry Czonka is another example and back then they didn't have the medical technology that players today enjoy.
You might argue that they played in a different era and that would only weaken you argument, because the game is much more player friendly today.
In short for every example you give I could give another that would dispute your claim.
Anderson was a bruiser that played for like 15 seasons. I am old enough to have seen them all play and did.
And your example (Jacobs) is not the best example, because he runs high and doesn't have a natural body lean.
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Hey, i'm not saying I wouldn't have loved to see "Browns sign [Insert FA Here]" all over ESPN... But it's not about winning the press conference...
Are we going to struggle this year? Sure, it's highly possible...
But had we signed Rice, Nnamdi, Johnson, and Williams... We're we going to win the SB?
I don't think so...
I'm ok with taking a step back, seeing what we got... And who knows, maybe we'll suprise some people this year...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think you guys are forgetting how no one will ever want to come here, as evidenced by Bunkley refusing to report, spitting in an envelope and mailing it to Heckert, and telling all of his friends that "the Browns are doody-heads."
You got your facts all wrong man.. He did report, he did take a physical and he apparently didn't pass the physical.,
His post was dripping with sarcasm. Did you not catch it?
Apparently not 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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"Seeing what we've got" doesn't really make any sense.
Let's say we have a player A, and there is free agent B. Let's say we expect B to be a little better than A in 3 years (when we want to compete). If we will be under the salary cap for the next two years, then we should sign B, even if it doesn't win us any more games now.
The only reason not to is to make the ownership more money (read: not salary cap money) - and I hope that's not how we're running the team.
~Lyuokdea
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The only reason not to is to make the ownership more money
I know this isn't exactly what you are saying, but I want to head it off before anyone else jumps to conclusions.
we had the 3rd highest payroll in the uncapped year.
we have paid off coaches to not coach us so that we can move onto what we hope will be the correct approach (instead of sticking with something after everyone knows it isn't working.....i.e. Marvin Lewis)
we went out and got Holmgren, then paid for Heckert, the rest of the FO staff, etc.
if there is one thing Lerner is not, it is cheap. he's been very willing to throw money at the problems. he just hasn't thrown the money in the right direction yet. hopefully, Holmgren has better aim now that Lerner hands him the money to throw.
#gmstrong
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"Seeing what we've got" doesn't really make any sense.
Let's say we have a player A, and there is free agent B. Let's say we expect B to be a little better than A in 3 years (when we want to compete). If we will be under the salary cap for the next two years, then we should sign B, even if it doesn't win us any more games now.
The only reason not to is to make the ownership more money (read: not salary cap money) - and I hope that's not how we're running the team.
After firing and hiring and paying 3 different HCs at the same time, I don't think Lerner's in it just to make money...
By your logic, we could let Player A try to reach his potential, which he wouldnt be able to if we signed Player B, and then in 3 years if thewres a FA thats better than Player A, we can pull the trigger then...
I'm not saying whats correct...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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"Seeing what we've got" doesn't really make any sense.
Let's say we have a player A, and there is free agent B. Let's say we expect B to be a little better than A in 3 years (when we want to compete). If we will be under the salary cap for the next two years, then we should sign B, even if it doesn't win us any more games now.
The only reason not to is to make the ownership more money (read: not salary cap money) - and I hope that's not how we're running the team.
I gotta ask a question,, this board is decidedly conservative/pro business.
What's wrong with ownership wanting to make more money... you say that as if it's a bad thing? And it's just not.
Lerner has shown more than once that he's willing to spend the money,, but he's not a idiot..,you don't spend it just cause you have it, you spend it cause you must do so to compete and then only when you see it fits an overall plan.
IT's apparently been determined by more experienced Football people than I am, that now just isn't the time to blow a wad of money..
That to me sounds like good, sound fiscal management.....
Looking down the road, hopefully when our Browns are generally feared because the O and D are kicking some butt... if we find ourselves missing a top shelf player that's available in FA or via Trade and we don't spend the money,,Then I'm with you, but at this point, we aren't even sure of the foundation we are building a team on..
No NO,, It's my opinion (for what thats worth) that now isn't the time to go nuts in FA
#GMSTRONG
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Right - or we could let player B reach his potential. And we're not spending any money in year 3 to get player B (because they are only three year contracts, and we could release them going into the last year).
My point is that "except for the amount of money the ownership would spend in the next two years, there is no reason to prefer a player currently on the team to a free agent on a 3 year contract"
That's not really debatable, it's just true (in this restricted scenario).
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It's a bad thing for me (as a football fan) - that's why I don't like it.
I also support the right for BP to make money, that doesn't mean I'm not upset when I look at the gas price and it's gone up.
As a capitalist - I don't care about Randy Learner.... I want to maximize my happiness, thus I want the Browns to win football games.
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j/c
So, available punters?
you had a good run Hank.
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But just saying we need to go out and sign a bunch of FAs doesnt garuntee we're going to win football games...
IMO that's what they're trying to do, figure out what we have now, so we can spend even more wisely...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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But just saying we need to go out and sign a bunch of FAs doesnt garuntee we're going to win football games...
IMO that's what they're trying to do, figure out what we have now, so we can spend even more wisely...
This only makes sense if you have a limited amount of money. For all intents and purposes, we have an unlimited amount of money in the next two years (since we'll be nowhere near the cap). That means that all three year (or shorter) deals, are effectively free.
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I didn't mean wisely as in cost effective...
Imeant it as in we know what we have now, we can get specific positions...
Who knows, teams are still ganna make cuts, maybe theres more trades coming...
I just think alot of people rushed their judgement based on the fact that we didn't sign either Rice, Johnson, or Edwards and make that splash everyone always loves to hear...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Maybe - but it might not be a good move.
Look at the Brandon Jacobs career path...that's what you should expect from Hillis
I don't believe in judging a player by another.
Hillis may not play for 12 seasons, but he has a lot of good football left in the tank. Some of you guys act like he has been in the league for 7 or 8 years. He has had two years of full time duty.
And he didn't geta ton of carries in college either, so he lacks the wear and tear of the backs that normally have 1000+ carries coming out of college.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns FA Signings Part IV
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