Quote: Maybe I'm wrong, but in practice, McCoy seems to go to the TEs a lot because they are open a lot, especially Moore. I could easily see Moore leading us in receiving this year.
Or maybe our defense just can't cover TEs.
Well, as big as Moore is, he's a mismatch for whoever's going to cover him. So, if he's open, why not throw to him?
I mean, are we really going to complain if McCoy can lead us down the field to TDs throwing solely to TEs and RBs?
Granted, teams will start taking that away, but if the TEs and RBs are open and can create gains, why the heck wouldn't you throw to them??
Yeah, Moore is huge, and he seems much faster to me this year. Granted it is only practice, but he looked very quick and hopefully that translates to something on Sundays.
Quote: Maybe I'm wrong, but in practice, McCoy seems to go to the TEs a lot because they are open a lot, especially Moore. I could easily see Moore leading us in receiving this year.
Or maybe our defense just can't cover TEs.
Well, as big as Moore is, he's a mismatch for whoever's going to cover him. So, if he's open, why not throw to him?
I mean, are we really going to complain if McCoy can lead us down the field to TDs throwing solely to TEs and RBs?
Granted, teams will start taking that away, but if the TEs and RBs are open and can create gains, why the heck wouldn't you throw to them??
Yeah...Wasn't there a TE that Elway made a living tossin' too that just got Enshrined...lol...
Quote: Maybe I'm wrong, but in practice, McCoy seems to go to the TEs a lot because they are open a lot, especially Moore. I could easily see Moore leading us in receiving this year.
Or maybe our defense just can't cover TEs.
Well, as big as Moore is, he's a mismatch for whoever's going to cover him. So, if he's open, why not throw to him?
I mean, are we really going to complain if McCoy can lead us down the field to TDs throwing solely to TEs and RBs?
Granted, teams will start taking that away, but if the TEs and RBs are open and can create gains, why the heck wouldn't you throw to them??
Yeah...Wasn't there a TE that Elway made a living tossin' too that just got Enshrined...lol...
Yeah, and another HOFer who caught a ton of passes from Sipe and Kosar? what was his name again?
I just think it would be awfully hard to take all the weapons away on every single play.. so if throwing a bunch to TE's and RB's get the D's attention, wouldn't/couldn't that mean that a WR or two might find some space?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
If McCoy hits the TE's for positive gain after positive gain....the defense will shift to take them away as options...which should free up passing lanes and coverage of the WR's or RB/FB's.
An offense needs a strength for a defense to worry about. If we have a good running game and TE's that can get first downs....that makes the lack of a #1 WR a moot point IMO.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
BEREA -- Observations from Browns morning practice ..
* If there were a MVP at this early stage of training camp, it would be tight end Evan Moore. He's flourishing in this West Coast scheme. In every red zone drill he's catching two or three passes in the end zone. Moore definitely has a chemistry going with quarterback Colt McCoy, and he's the surest-handed pass catcher on the roster. He also seems to be totally in concert with the new offense, while others are still comprehending it. Moore is big in coach Pat Shurmur's offensive plans.
* Cornerback Sheldon Brown looked particularly spry. He leaped to steal a McCoy pass intended for 6-5 rookie receiver Chris Matthews in a one-on-one drill, and then broke up another pass for Matthews on the sideline. In a red zone drill, Brown knifed under rookie Greg Little for another interception.
* Love the pump-fake. McCoy had a nice one to freeze cornerback Joe Haden for the blink of an eye, just enough for receiver Johnathan Haggerty to slip behind Haden and come down with a McCoy pass.
* Shurmur said Mike Adams is competing well at free safety, but conceded the team is looking for Usama Young to emerge as the starter.
* Competing every day against Joe Thomas is benefitting rookie defensive end Jabaal Sheard, who is holding down the starting right defensive end position. Sheard also has dazzled in post-practice interviews.
* Montario Hardesty update: He did a little more agility running on the sideline and expressed satisfaction with the way he felt.
* Idle were receiver Mohamed Massaquoi (foot), linebacker Chris Gocong (neck) and defensive back Ramzee Robinson (groin).
* At the end of practice, quarterbacks and receivers practiced some lobs on fade routes to the corners of the end zone. Brian Robiskie reached out far for a catch and kept running to maintain his balance. He tip-toed all the way under the press tent as Shurmur was holding court with reporters. "How you doin'?" Shurmur said. "Nice catch."
Tuesday, August 9, 2011 Daniel Wolf/National Football Authority By Daniel Wolf Senior Writer
On a Fall-like morning in Cleveland, the Browns took to the practice field on a very cloudy day with spots of sunshine.
Luckily, the rain held off and practice was underway with a very refreshing and cool breeze blowing through Berea, Ohio.
The following are some observations from this morning's session.
Injury Report
-Same old, same old with wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi sporting his boot/cast and running back Montario Hardesty still working on the side with trainers.
-Linebacker Chris Gocong was with trainers, due to his 'stinger,' and backup Kaluka Maiava was starting in Gocong's place as weakside linebacker with the first team defense.
-At one point, projected starting right tackle Tony Pashos was off to the side working with trainers for a bit as was defensive end Marcus Benard, who was getting his right knee looked at. Both seemed to be okay and it was nothing serious later in practice.
Brian Robiskie, WR
-Not sure why everyone is on the "hate" bandwagon for Robiskie, especially since I see progress from him. He even beat cornerback Joe Haden on a nifty double-move toward the sideline to catch a nice pass from Colt McCoy this morning.
-He is crisp and his route running is the most precise of any of the other Browns receivers on the roster.
-My two cents is to say to not believe all this "hate" and he looks like the most polished receiver on this roster.
Usama Young, FS
-Young doesn't have the speed of a top-tier safety in the NFL, but his eyes are always on the quarterback and rarely have I seen him out of place.
-He also looks to have great footwork, awareness and technique which can make up for not having top-tier speed. Another factor could be he is not going at 110-percent like he will on game days. Most players don't go 110-percent during practices and have more game day speed than practice speed.
Branndon Braxton, OL
-Braxton has started to catch my eye in the last few practice sessions. He is big at 6'6" and 315 pounds and seems to have the versatility to play as a guard or tackle.
-When Pashos was working with trainers, Braxton moved into the role of right tackle with the first team offensive line.
Greg Little, WR
-The rookie looked much more focused today after he suffered from the dropsies at yesterday's practice.
-He didn't really get as many looks from the quarterbacks—as he has in past practices—but he was catching passes and not putting them on the ground this morning.
Carlton Mitchell, WR
-Since he was finally able to see the field, after suffering through a shoulder injury for most of last week, Mitchell is starting to get into a groove.
-His route running seems to be getting better in every practice and when he turns on the speed, he seems to break free into open field more and more.
-Coming out of college his hands were in question, but he has been catching pass after pass—with most being away from his body and using only his hands to catch passes. All good signs.
Colt McCoy, QB
-Most reports coming from camp are focusing on the negatives of McCoy when he misses throws or lands an interception into a defenders arms, but this is the reason there are practices before games. To get the mistakes fixed.
-He did throw a pick to cornerback Sheldon Brown, but McCoy has looked like a leader of this offense from Day 1 both inside and outside of the huddle.
-Random note: I find it funny how when I was driving home and listening to ESPN Cleveland radio, one of the hosts was saying how he thinks the Browns needs to draft Stanford's Andrew Luck next season. What I don't get is why? Luck's arm strength is no different than McCoy's plus if Mike Holmgren backs a quarterback the way he is with McCoy—his past quarterback resume alone should speak volumes about his evaluation of McCoy's abilities. Put this to rest already Cleveland.
Ahtyba Rubin, DT
-Rubin was wrecking the interior of the first team offensive line at times today and tearing down the pocket single-handedly. Good to see since he has been somewhat quiet during camp so far, but he too is adapting to the new four-man front as opposed to the three-man fronts of the past two seasons.
Kaluka Maiava, LB
-First, remember this is a guy who likes to go and hunt wild boar with his bear hands in his spare time in Hawaii.
-Second, Maiava may be under-sized as a linebacker but I can see the high-motor and a fierce style of play while getting reps with the first team defense on the weakside.
-Last, these reps are a good thing since the depth at the linebacker position is still questioned in my mind and from what I've seen.
Side Note
The Detroit Lions announced they have signed more former Browns running backs Jerome Harrison and Mike Bell. These additions are due to the fact rookie back Mikel LeShoure went down with a season ending injury in camp.
I find it amusing how many former Browns are in Detroit now. They include: Harrison, Bell, cornerbacks Eric Wright and Brandon McDonald and defensive lineman Corey Williams.
Hopefully, Harrison can get his break with the Lions since I have always been a fan and felt that Eric Mangini gave him the raw deal in Cleveland.
And, after Saturday's game and the team doesn't look like a Super Bowl contender, these are the same guys who will be calling for Wallace to start, Shurmur to be fired, and Phil Dawson to be lynched.
BEREA — Browns cornerback Joe Haden had no trouble filling his days during the 4½-month lockout. Becoming one of Cleveland’s favorite professional athletes takes a lot of time.
He dressed up in a full Cavaliers uniform, including an Anderson “Wild Thing” Varejao wig, to sit courtside at Quicken Loans Arena.
He donned the uniform of Indians left-handed reliever Tony Sipp to sit among the fans in the bleachers at Progressive Field.
He bought sushi for a restaurant full of his Twitter followers.
“I was just sitting there and I was hungry and I was like I’m about to go to Sushi Rock and then I was just like I’m going to ask whoever wants to come to come,” Haden said Monday after practice.
His fans packed the Beachwood restaurant and he called the bill “hefty.”
“I just wanted to give back to the fans,” Haden said. “I had a really good time doing that. I had a really good time talking to them.”
Haden, the No. 7 pick in the 2010 draft, has only been a member of the community for about 15 months but would put up a fight if he ran for mayor. He’s constantly interacting with fans in public and on Twitter, sponsored a youth baseball team in Canton and joined Joshua Cribbs as the last two players signing autographs Saturday after the Family Day practice at Cleveland Browns Stadium.
Sean Cabble, a college friend and business associate, said that’s just Haden being Haden. Cabble said Haden was “the rock star” at the University of Florida despite sharing a locker room with Tim Tebow and Percy Harvin.
“Nobody tells Joe what to do,” Cabble said. “He gets excited about things and he just wants to do it.”
So why has Haden given so much back to the fans?
“They show a lot of support to us, just coming out here and in the freezing-cold games,” he said. “They show they love the city and love the team and at the same time, I love doing stuff like that.
“I know they appreciate it and I just keep doing it for them.”
Haden also dressed in the full uniforms of Baron Davis, J.J. Hickson and Boobie Gibson for Cavaliers games, calling them ahead of time to get approval. His best friend on the Browns is safety T.J. Ward, and Haden dressed like him for Halloween.
“I’m proud of it. I love that he’s doing that,” Cribbs said.
Tight end Evan Moore has a new nickname for the 22-year-old who was mentioned among the league’s top rookies last year.
“Who, Mr. Cleveland? Whenever I opened any Cleveland website this winter, he was on the front of it,” Moore said. “I love Joe. There’s no arrogance. There’s no I’m better than you, because Joe’s a great player — we already know that and he’s just one year in.
“Joe is a fun guy to be around. He’s a good teammate and I am not surprised he’s Mr. Cleveland because he has that kind of personality.”
That word — personality — comes up a lot when discussing Haden. He’s got a bright smile, loves fashion — he has more than 200 pairs of shoes — and likes to chat.
Coach Pat Shurmur didn’t need long to recognize the positive energy emanating from No. 23.
“He’s a fun guy to be around because he loves to play and can run all day,” he said. “He’s good in coverage and he challenges. He’s a fun guy to coach for all those reasons.
“It’s very rare you look at a guy and it’s hot and they’re tired, and he’s out here smiling, joking and playing fast. I can appreciate that from him.”
Haden is challenging Cribbs for title of “Cleveland’s Most Interactive Athlete.” Cribbs made a home here, has business interests and keeps in constant contact with fans through public appearances and Twitter. During the summer he held Twitter trivia contests in which he would pay for the fastest right answer.
“Before, guys didn’t take a liking to fans like I did,” Cribbs said. “Now it’s a great thing that you have more guys who are accepting the fans. And it should be more. Hopefully it will be more.
“You play good on the field first, then you treat the fans good and then you’ll see stuff like what’s happening to me and Joe happening. And Joe has done that on the field, so he’s able to not be selfish to the fans, not give the cold shoulder and give the fans a lot of love. And in return they’ll love him. Because it’s a blue-collar, hard-working town.”
Haden and Ward have taken on a leadership role in their second seasons. Haden is clearly the No. 1 corner after finishing last season with 57 tackles, a sack and a team-high six interceptions. He said he only got fully comfortable when then-coach Eric Mangini finally inserted him into the starting lineup in Week 11.
“I’m just trying to get better and just trying to work on my weaknesses,” Haden said. “My goal is just not to let anyone catch the ball in practice. One thing I can do is try to get better every single day and just lock down one side of the field.
“That’s what I came into the league trying to do and I feel knowing the defense and knowing everything is making me play a whole lot faster and my goal is just to be one of the best corners in the league.”
Haden found one other activity to keep him busy during the offseason — getting a new tattoo on his right forearm. It says “Dreams Come True” with an NFL logo and 4-22-10 — the date he got drafted.
So what is his NFL dream?
“Win a Super Bowl. And get me a ring,” he said. “That’s the goal.”
-Not sure why everyone is on the "hate" bandwagon for Robiskie, especially since I see progress from him. He even beat cornerback Joe Haden on a nifty double-move toward the sideline to catch a nice pass from Colt McCoy this morning.
-He is crisp and his route running is the most precise of any of the other Browns receivers on the roster.
-My two cents is to say to not believe all this "hate" and he looks like the most polished receiver on this roster
I agree and I think that much of the negativity is pure fantasy.
Quote:
-Braxton has started to catch my eye in the last few practice sessions. He is big at 6'6" and 315 pounds and seems to have the versatility to play as a guard or tackle.
-When Pashos was working with trainers, Braxton moved into the role of right tackle with the first team offensive line.
I was unaware that he was practicing at guard.
Can't wait to see Braxton in action. I just love a rags to riches story
Quote:
Carlton Mitchell, WR
-Since he was finally able to see the field, after suffering through a shoulder injury for most of last week, Mitchell is starting to get into a groove.
-His route running seems to be getting better in every practice and when he turns on the speed, he seems to break free into open field more and more.
-Coming out of college his hands were in question, but he has been catching pass after pass—with most being away from his body and using only his hands to catch passes. All good signs.
Quote: -Not sure why everyone is on the "hate" bandwagon for Robiskie, especially since I see progress from him. He even beat cornerback Joe Haden on a nifty double-move toward the sideline to catch a nice pass from Colt McCoy this morning.
-He is crisp and his route running is the most precise of any of the other Browns receivers on the roster.
-My two cents is to say to not believe all this "hate" and he looks like the most polished receiver on this roster
I agree and I think that much of the negativity is pure fantasy.
Speaking of fantasy, sometimes I think that the hatrid shown to some players is because they don't do well in a fantasy league.. Robo had to be a fantasy league bust the last couple of years...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Can't wait to see Braxton in action. I just love a rags to riches story
There are probably more of them on the OL than anywhere else.
Look at the premiere teams in the league and you'll find late round picks and UDFA all along their lines. (especially at Guard and Right Tackle)
There's no reason why we can't find a few players in the bargain bin too.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
• The Browns say they are looking ways for Joshua Cribbs to make get some openings.
I watched one of the ways that makes real good sense just now.
The Browns were in punting drill. Haden was on the returning team in a gunner-and-vice situation. The gunner, rookie Buster Skrine, lines up wide. He is supposed to beat a double team lined up right across him at the line of scrimmage and go tackle the return man.
The double team is the “vice.” Joe Haden was one of the vice men. Typically, a team’s stars don’t block on special teams, but Cribbs is not a typical return man, and the Browns might conclude it is worth their while to put him out there for Cribbs.
Anyway …
Skrine did his job initially, getting off the line of scrimmage fairly quickly despite the double team. However, as Skrine sprinted to the middle of the field, Haden took off after him, arriving to throw a block well before Skrine reached Cribbs.
The right block against a gunner, maybe, could lead to a Cribbs touchdown this year.
• Keep this name under your hat. Chris Matthews. He’s 6-foot-5 and is wearing No. 17 with quite a bit of confidence, for an undrafted rookie.
The head coach gave him a strong compliment just now, saying he’s a fighter … you throw him one in traffic and he finds a way to out with it.
The last time the Browns had a wideout in that height range, they went 10-6. We’re not saying he can be Joe J., but we think we’ll see him a lot against the Packers on Saturday.
• Joe Haden is only 22. He’s not old enough yet to know the older guys don’t necessarily want a kid his age to be their leader, but, hey … he brings as much talent to his position as any Brown at any position except maybe the one manned by that guy named Joe.
• On my good days, I have no more swag than a bowl of frosted flakes, so who am I to talk like this, but … Haden really has a swag on in every little movement he makes.
Between drills late in practice, we couldn’t help but to laugh when Haden strutted like a rooster past a couple of teammates and said: “I AM what you thought I was.”
• We’ve seen reports the Browns might not be interested in Terrelle Pryor, but that’s not the way Pat Shurmur sounded at all today.
The head coach said kind of coyly that he won’t be able to make Pryor’s workout on Friday, but he said he will be very aware of the scouting reports the Browns pick up.
The Browns don’t have a lot of guys with “rare talent.” If the scouts say that’s what Pryor has … we’re not assuming team discussions will lead to any obvious conclusion.
• We might turn up on Vic Carucci’s Browns show on WKNR today. We’ll try not to make any costly turnovers.
• Shurmur said one thing he has noticed from film study of last year’s Browns. Every time Moore is on the field with any other tight end, he always has been covered by a linebacker or a safety. He smiled when he said that.
• Chris Matthews, the really tall rookie receiver, said some of the best advice he gets — and he takes as much as he can get — comes from Mo Massaquoi. That’s big of Massaquoi, who is guaranteed nothing, even though he might be the No. 1 wideout, even if his foot injury turns to be inconsequential.
• We keep remembering that Bernie Kosar said the other day that Massaquoi will be a major part of this offense. Someone told him something, we’ll guess.
• We’ll try to get some straight answers as to whether there is a real concern about Colt McCoy staring down receivers.
One time this morning, he seemed to lock onto rookie tight end Jordan Cameron from the time Cameron left the line to the time he reached the back of the end zone in front of the goal post.
In this case, it didn’t matter. Cameron got behind D’Qwell Jackson, and McCoy threw a perfect pass into outstretched hands.
• Is “Hardball” too obvious or too hokey a nickname for Chris Matthews?
CAMP SCENES • Seven on seven drill. Second and goal from the 5. Colt McCoy drops back, looks at Carlton Mitchell over the middle, and guns his fastball. Joe Haden is wearing Mitchell like Spandex. He deftly reaches from behind and bats down the ball. He and another DB share a spontaneous “Wooooo!”
• Second and goal from the 10. McCoy sees 6-foot-6 Evan Moore covered by D’Qwell Jackson and tries to loft a touch pass over the 6-foot linebacker. In the back corner of the end zone, Moore can do no more than get the fingertips of his right hand on the football.
• Second and goal from the 10. Seneca Wallace guns one between two defenders into the hands of Joshua Cribbs in the back of the end zone … the ball keeps on going through Cribbs’ hands.
• Second and goal from the 5. Wallace sees the tall tight end, Moore, covered by 6-foot-1 rookie safety Eric Hagg. Hagg’s coverage is reasonably tight, but Wallace throws a beauty into the right corner of the end zone. Hagg doesn’t have a chance.
• In one sprinting drill late in practice, DB James Dockery ran like there’s no tomorrow. For undrafted rookies like him, there might not be.
Quote: Shawn Lauvao at starting RG. Good for him. Hope he can do well there.
I hope he has big feet because he has some big shoes to fill
It's his job to lose. I wish him well, because he would add stability to that position going forward.
Murray and Pinkston could be a nice competition to watch unfold for the backup LG position.
Yates is probably secure as the 1st backup to Mack at Center and we know he can backup at both guard positions which should leave him on the active game day roster.
I really hope Braxton plays well with his opportunity's in preseason, because where I have no problem with Pashoes at RT, I do however have concerns about him getting threw the season healthy and without missing time.
Quote: Jordan Cameron behind Alex Smith.. interesting..
The kid played 20 games and caught 16 passes in college.
That's irrelevant I think. I like Alex Smith and there is a good chance that we keep all 4 TE's (Smith can also be our backup FB to Marecic), but Jordan will get the most opportunities in our offense, of that I have little doubt.
Also, looks like the UDFA wideouts have a lot to prove in a short amount of time to make the squad. Looks like a longshot at this point.
They are long shots, but if we can get a couple threw waivers, then we can stash them on the PS (I'm thinking of Matthews and Castile)
We could keep 6 or 7 WR's on the roster this year I think, including Cribbs.
Norwood and Haggerty I think still would qualify for the PS if it comes down to one or the other. My hope is that we can keep both around for insurance in some capacity if not on the 53 man roster.
I was really hoping that the new CBA would increase the roster size by two.
Robiskie, Massaquoi, Little, Cribbs, Norwood, and Mitchell will likely all be on the team.
That's already leaving out Demetrious Williams (I think he sees the writing on the wall and why he was upset in practice as noted earlier in the week.) He only makes the team if Norwood or Mitchell plays poorly or gets hurt in preseason.
Only way I can see something else happening is if one of the UDFAs plays out of their minds and Massaquoi starts the season on PUP.
The lack of depth on defense, especially DT and LB, looks very scary.
Also, looks like the UDFA wideouts have a lot to prove in a short amount of time to make the squad. Looks like a longshot at this point.
I looked at depth charts around the league...and I'm pretty sure we will fill the last 2-3 spots on the roster with other team's cuts...the league is pretty deep especially in RB and WR talent...it wouldn't surprise me if Shurmur claims a STL cut at WR...right now they have 9 NFL talents for max 6 spots: Amendola, Avery, Sims-Walker, Clayton, Gibson, D.Alexander, Gilyard + 2 drafted rooks in Pettis and Salas...they can't keep them all and their 6th/7th guy is probably better than our 5th
Same with DT, DE and CB...I'm almost 100% sure our 4th (maybe even 3rd with us) DT is not on our roster right now...maybe Mitchell-like trade to get him into camp or a cut signing...I'm looking at teams like GB, PHI, NYG, MIN, TEN and NO for excessive DL talent...most of their best cuts should be better than our 4th DT and DE right now (Paxson, Robinson)....with Heckert I look esp at PHI and they have 6 pretty good DEs in Cole, Babin, Parker, Graham, Tapp, Teo-Nesheim...would they keep them all? Maybe...but I think we could get a good talent at half the price here...Graham was a 1st rounder, Tapp a 2nd and Teo-Nesheim a 3rd rounder
I expect the same at OLB
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Oops, my bad...thought the charts were updated regularly...still, a guy like Gilyard could become available...he was the 1st pick in the 4th round last draft...shurmur knows him...but STL was just an example since Shurmur knows those guys...I saw many teams who were 6-8 players deep at WR..and most 6th guys were better than our 5th....just saying, but I expect some small trades and/or cut signing to fill out the depth spots
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
You could be right about picking up a few player cuts from other teams (DL), but I don't think we will be adding anymore WR's. We may have to lose a couple of the guys whom they are high on.
Unless something changes their opinion of our WR's in the next month. I would be surprised if we brought in another.
There are still some FA available and if we wanted to go in that direction I think we would have made a move by now.
With Mike Adams ability to add depth at both Safety and CB. Cribbs is special in the since that we don't have to keep that 9th or 10th DB around for ST's.
Norwood is going to get a look at PR duty in preseason, so he too could be a ST's guy as well from the position.
We could stash some DB's on the PS and keep more WR's on our roster.
If it has to come down to Haggerty or Francies. I would be inclined to go with the former.
TE Alex Smith I think should make the team as a TE (2nd best blocking option).
He also can backup Marecic at FB and has played on some ST units. Cameron is also supposed to be a guy who will play on some ST units.
Count;
WR&TE= 10 (6-4), possibly even in addition to Cribbs.
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Yeah, right. 
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