DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Camp Discussions (Part II)

What exactly does Robiskie bring to the table?

He's not fast.
He's not quick.
He's not elusive.
He doesn't get separation in his routes.
He's not physical.
He doesn't have great size.
He doesn't have great hands.

He's a zero tool player. He would not be on the roster for final cuts if I was the GM.

I'd rather give the roster spot to Chris Matthews frankly.

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What exactly does Robiskie bring to the table?

He's not fast.
He's not quick.
He's not elusive.
He doesn't get separation in his routes.
He's not physical.
He doesn't have great size.
He doesn't have great hands.

He's a zero tool player. He would not be on the roster for final cuts if I was the GM.

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True, he's not "burner" fast. But he's fast enough, I believe.
"Physical" is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. He's probably not going to wrestle the ball away from, say, Ed Reed but he'll do alright against most DB's.
His size is OK. You make it sound like he's Danny DeVito.
His hands are pretty good, I think. Not Kellen Winslow good but good enough.

To say he has zero tools is just BS, frankly. And so far, as far as I can see, all Chris Matthews has going for himself is that he could go to work for MSNBC without changing his name. He's like the backup QB - everyone loves him until he actually gets to play.

And we're probably both wrong and that's why neither one of us is the GM.....

I agree. If he was '0' tools, then he wouldn't have been drafted (yes, we over-drafted him and I thought so at the time, but he still was a draftable guy)

he doesn't have that 1 elite tool, no. that 1 tool that makes the rest of his game better. but, he does fight for the ball pretty good and he does have good hands.

if he was a '0' tool player, then he wouldn't have had that 4 game stretch to end last year. maybe it was a mirage and he'll never do anything like it again. but, I hope not. I hope he builds off that success because, frankly, we need him to.

Robiskie makes better adjustments to throws than anyone on the team.

He has excellent hands and good leaping ability (both in vert and timing.)

He has good speed, just not good quickness. See how he ran away from Asomugha in the Eagles game? If you need hard data, he ran a 4.49 at the combine.

He is the best the Browns have got in a downfield jumpball situation, as evidenced by the several he caught end of last year when they finally started calling plays for him. Moore tends to run under the ball (see the drop in the Philly game) moreso than leap up to catch it as high as he can.

Everyone says he runs very precise routes and always knows where he needs to be.

Those are the major positives I see from him. I tend to think his route-running may be a hindrance to his separation... Every team runs the same 12 or so routes, and corners know what those are. "Robo" might be a bit too robotic and not improvise the route enough, and the corner can predict where he will go. He is far from a perfect receiver, but he's certainly one of the three best we have on our team.

Here's the problem with Robo.

He was drafted pretty high in the 2nd round. So, everyone is going to hold him up to that standard. At that spot, he should be a no. 1 WR.

But, he's not going to be our no. 1 guy (not IMHO). But, that won't stop him from being a contributor for us.

Was he drafted too high? Yeah, probably. But does that mean he sucks? No, it means our drafting philosophy sucks.

It would be like taking him no. 1 overall. It sets expectations way high, and when he doesn't live up to those expectations, he's labeled a bust. But, maybe the problem is that we "expect" him to be something he's not.

Take his drafted spot out of the equation. What if he was a 3rd or 4th round guy? Would we be having this same conversation?

People treat him as if he forced us to choose him at the spot we did.

JMHO

I think that if Robo can develop into a Joe Jurevicius guy we would be well off...

Despite our drafting him in the 2nd round, and kinda needing him to be very good (in the past at least) has been the problem. Now with a focused on WR job Cribbs, Little, MoMass (who has also underachieved), and Jordan Norwood...we could do worse than have Robo there.

He's no longer a draftee he is a WR on the roster...Take it that way, and he would do us best to develop into a Joe J...with some deep threat ability to boot (because he has smart leaping ability).

Thatd be the best, find open spots and move the chains, and maybe pull the top off on occasion. Perfect. I could see him runnin a 10 yd hook in the seam, colt pumping and him going deep when the safety bites and goin up to get it over the other safety.

Robo could do us well...we just have to use him to his strengths, which i think Shurmur will learn better to do as the season progresses

I remember that. And if you want to critique him with those expectations, that's fine.

It just seems to me that a lot of people critique him because he's not Calvin Johnson, when he's never going to be Calvin Johnson. (Hyperbole, I know).

I agree with you on that. He "should" have been an instant contributor but he wasn't. He also didn;t get alot of field time that first year and our gag worthy QB play certainly didn't help matters.

He showed good progress from year one to year two. If he continues to show the progress into year 3, I'm a happy guy. I'd bet he will.

j/c... I was home at lunch and they were replaying the Eagles v. Browns. Robo made a nice move to get open on Cromartie for a first down. Then, he had Nnamdi playing in off coverage and ran a little stop rout that went for 7. Then, he ran right by him for the bogus OPI. He looked pretty legit in the game against the Eagles matched up with some of the top corners in the NFL.

I think he'll be fine, now that we actually pass the ball.

What would Joe Jurivicious have done if Tim Carter wasn't on the field.
I don't think everyone will get that, maybe one.

Robiskie can develop into a Robiske type, Mike Adams can be a Mike Adams type, and Usama Young hasn't done Anything for the Browns yet.

you mean if he was?


all tim Carter did was run downfield, which i suppose pulled the top off the defense and allow Joe J to find a spot on the lengthened coverage...but thatll be fine if Robo can do that.

Because I think MoMass can go deep, and Norwood can be quick...we have guys that can stretch a defense, especially in the seam...so we'll see.

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Let's recall that Robiskie was hailed as the most NFL ready WR in the draft and most people saw him as the 4th or 5th best WR in the draft. Lots of pundits believed this guy would be an instant contributor. And lots were wrong!

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Which kind of emphasizes Bfs 79's point.... which I get. I don't follow the college game, so it's easy for me to ignore where a player was drafted. I'm not a GM, wannbe GM or Draft Guru: too many names, too many stats, too many geekdom areas to get bogged down in for my tastes. What I do, however, is watch what they do once they become Cleveland Browns. Which takes us to your second point:

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I saw progress out of him last year towards the end of the season. Hopefully, he starts this year out with the same trend.

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Second that. Since I didn't listen to thy hype suroounding him during draft windup, I had no inflated expectations of his performance as a young pro. as such, I've been able to simply watch his performance on the field... and saw some of the same things as you. Although I dig Heldawg to death and back- this time, I have to disagree with his assessment of Robo- I think there is still room for him to contribute for the Browns- especially in the NCO that we're installing. POSSESSION is key here (even if YAC may sometimes be missing)... and if he can stretch out and haul in passes like that one he caught from Colt against NE last year, we can use him.

I don't think he's going to be the league's next Jerry Rice, but there is certainly a spot for him on a team that will look to spread the ball around, move the chains, and toss a jump ball in the red zone. Yep- definitely.


p.s... loved the post, '79....

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back, now....

Cleveland Browns' youngsters get a final chance to impress against Bears
Published: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 7:04 PM Updated: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 7:05 PM
By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer
"They're looking for a third running back," says rookie Quinn Porter (39) about trying to impress on Thursday. "I feel like I complete that task."

BEREA, Ohio -- Thursday's preseason finale in Chicago is the stuff of which dreams are made.

It's a night when an undrafted rookie such as cornerback James Dockery can solidify a roster spot, or running back Quinn Porter can make the Browns stop looking outside the organization for another back.

"I hope to score," said Porter, who was signed to the practice squad in November. "I hope to make plays to show this organization I'm the right man for the job if not on offense, then on special teams."

While the starters will spend most of the night on the bench in Soldier Field, the bubble guys will try to stave off the pink slips coming Saturday by 4 p.m., when rosters must be trimmed from 80 to the final 53.

One prospect who needn't sweat out the final cuts is Dockery, who's come on strong since the first day of camp. Dockery, a 6-1 cornerback from Oregon State, is playing on just about every kicking team, which is a strong indication he'll stick around. The other was the ringing endorsement he received Tuesday from General Manager Tom Heckert on the team's radio show on WKNR.
Browns vs. Bears

Thursday, Soldier Field, 8 p.m. TV: WKYC Ch. 3

"He's proved he can play in this league," said Heckert.

But Dockery, one of the most upbeat players on the team, isn't taking anything for granted.

"I don't think [I've done enough to make the 53]," he said. "I've got to keep making plays. If that's enough to get me back to that team meeting on Saturday, I'll be very grateful."

Through the first three games, Dockery has made six solo tackles and broken up two passes. He's averaged 23.3 yards on six kickoff returns and 6.8 yards on four punt returns. His only regret was a muffed punt in Philadelphia that the Eagles converted into a touchdown.

"That's the first time I've ever fumbled in my whole life, so that kind of stung," he said. "My mom was there and she was shocked, too. But you've got to have a short memory. It was an unfortunate event and ball security is No. 1."

dockery-sack-lionsqb-squ-ap.jpgView full sizeAmy Sancetta, Associated Press"I hope to challenge for every ball, make every open-field tackle to my side and make a big play that can change the game," says James Dockery (here sacking Detroit backup QB Zac Robinson earlier this month).

Thursday night, Dockery hopes to show the ball-hawking ability he's shown in practice and at Oregon State, where he had four interceptions as a senior. At Palm Desert High in California, he set his school's career record with 17 picks.

"I hope to challenge for every ball, make every open-field tackle to my side and make a big play that can change the game," said Dockery. "In the return [game], I feel like I've been close to taking one past the 40 or 50 and that's my goal this week."

For a while, Dockery was working at free safety in addition to special teams and corner. But the Browns backed off when they realized he was getting overwhelmed.

"Honestly, right now my friend is the head special teams coach," he said.

Porter, whose main competition is Armond Smith, knows the toe injury suffered by third-down back Brandon Jackson's breathed new life into his chances. Jackson, who signed a two-year deal worth $4.5 million, is in a cast and possibly headed for injured reserve.

"They're looking for a third running back," he said. "I feel like I complete that task. It's going to be a fight between who makes the most errors and who scores the most touchdowns."

Smith has averaged 7.3 yards on his 20 carries -- including an 81-yard touchdown blast -- but he's fumbled three times and lost two. Porter has averaged 4.2 yards on his 10 carries and has also fumbled once, but recovered.

"I was mad at first because it was the first time ever fumbling in my life," said Smith, an undrafted rookie from Union College in Kentucky. "Last year I had 156 carries and 1,400 yards and didn't fumble one ball."

Heckert also identified first-year defensive end Auston English as a candidate to make the 53. Originally signed by the Browns as an undrafted rookie out of Oklahoma last year, English made his presence felt in Philly when he strip-sacked Vince Young to set up a TD.

"We had Auston here last year, and he was a linebacker," Heckert said. "Now he's playing his true position and I think it's really showing."

Others with a good chance are defensive tackle Scott Paxson, a second-year player out of Penn State signed by the Browns in January; fourth-year guard Pat Murray and Brian Smith, the undrafted rookie linebacker out of Notre Dame. Smith had a strip-sack the first game and Titus Brown recovered for a TD. Smith also started in place of Scott Fujita against Detroit.

"I'm feeling pretty good about where I'm at," said Smith. "I've put a heavy emphasis on special teams. If I do the things necessary to get better, [my teammates] are confident that I can land anywhere in the league. But right now, I love the people here in Cleveland. I love the team and the coaches. I'm gonna fight like hell to make this team."

As for the receivers, Carlton Mitchell is coming off finger surgery and was back on the sidelines on Tuesday, which could strengthen Demetrius Williams' chances heading into Saturday. web page

i'm still intrigued by Carlton Mitchell, i hope he can get on the field and show what he can do. Would be a shame for a broken finger to lead to him getting cut.

I'm still confused about that last line, if Mitchell is ready how does that help Williams? Or did they mean Mitchell in on the sidelines as in not ready yet, or did they mean that this will strengthen Williams chances of getting cut?

I hope Carlton gets a shot and contributes this year.

I'd say that none of that matters - not even remotely one bit. That was then, this is now.


New coach, new scheme, new everything. If he isn't getting it and isn't cutting it, then he doesn't deserve to be here.
If he IS getting it and the coaches feel that he IS cutting it - that is all that matters. I have very little doubt that if he isn't cutting it, that this regime will let him go... but if they don't cut him, then I fully trust that they see something in him.


Past performances (or lack of) in a craptastic offense that didn't like to use WR's is hardly a scarlet letter worth taking as gospel.

I'd say that's the only thing that does matter. What he does actually on the field on Sundays.

Anyway I do agree with you that if he's a part of the team then it's because he's earned it. Heckert didn't draft him and he has no ties to Shurmer.

With that said ...

I don't think he belongs on the field, I don't think he has any "plus" qualities in a WR to develop and I wish we had better players here than him so that he'd no longer be on the team.

"Now I'm done." - Brady S. Quinn, esq

I'm stating the facts!

You think he's quick!!!!

Is watching paint dry a thrill for you?

When you watch a snail slide by do you think WOW look at that S car go!

Agenda?

I'm a Browns fan and an Ohio State fan. If I had an agenda I'd be talking him up!

I just call em how I see em. Heck I even did that with David Veikune and I'm a huge UH fan.

Do you think he should still be playing for us?

He did have 20 catches, 229 of his yards, and all 3 of his TDs in the last 7 games ...... so he did show improvement.

I was very down on Robiske ..... but I have moved to wait and see for now. I'll trust the staff for now on WRs. That should be their area of expertise.

He went to O$U, he's good.

In 2 quarters of football, I thought he pretty much gave Nnamdi fits last week. I am no fan of Robo but I thought last week was his coming out party and not just because of the 50 yard bomb. That little hitch route he ran would have gone for major yards if Colt didnt lead him to far back towards the line. Then there were several other plays in which he looked like a real bonified NFL receiver.

All the injuries at receiver might have been just what the young man needed. 3rd year receivers have a history in this league. Would be nice if we actually hit on one or even 2 .