How many of those QBs listed are going to win games for you? Maybe 1, maybe 2 if you're stretching it.
If you watch a lot of football ... if you're a general fan as well as a Browns fan, you can form opinions on teams, players, trends, etc.
I think Colt is on the upswing, and I don't think any of those QBs listed are going anywhere. Yes, the rest of the team matters and that might bite us in the butt (either our team or someone else's team). But I'm not talking about 12-4 here. I'm talking 8-8 should be a real, REAL, possibility, and IMO should be the minimum goal for this team.
And I think Colt can get that done for us. He'll outshine most of these other guys ... I hope anyway.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
I know this sounds crazy, but I've said it a few times here: From the first game or two I saw Colt play, when he moved around the pocket with tremendous awareness, threw not with a cannon but very good accuracy and made quick decisions - especially for a rook (and knowing what I knew about him as a student of the game), his style reminded me of Joe Montana.
I know people will roll their eyes - I'm not saying he'll take us to four Super Bowls (or even one). I hate to compare him to a great like Montana, but stylistically, that's who he reminds me of, even if it sounds like I'm in fantasy land.
Quote: Yup, that's another one.. admittedly, that isn't the norm.
The point of this is, with teams changing so much each year, how is looking at last years record worth while?
It's the only benchmark you have to go after, but consideration must be given to the changes to team made since then as well.
It's a crap shoot for sure, but still, it's not a good barometer of what will be. so the entire SOS argument goes out the window for me until the season is over, then you can determine the SOS accurately. But it still won't matter for the following year.
Hell if the way they view SOS had any real merit, then after the 2007 Browns went 10-6. the Browns should have been terrorizing teams they played in 2008..
Not exactly the way it worked out is it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Super Bowl MVP and Pro Bowl quarterback Mark Rypien.
Sometimes the team makes the qb look good.
Late 80s/Early 90s is irrelevant.
QB's make teams now.
Period.
And it still doesn't matter.. not even a little.
You can't tell me that a team that was bad last year is going to be bad this year. Things change a bunch from year to year.. from my perpective, SOS is meaningless.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Super Bowl MVP and Pro Bowl quarterback Mark Rypien.
Sometimes the team makes the qb look good.
Late 80s/Early 90s is irrelevant.
QB's make teams now.
Period.
And it still doesn't matter.. not even a little.
You can't tell me that a team that was bad last year is going to be bad this year. Things change a bunch from year to year.. from my perpective, SOS is meaningless.
You're right.
I can't say "Oh, they were bad last year, they'll be bad this year"
But, I can say that teams are going to be bad this year. Whether they were bad last year or not.
Cincy is awful. Tennesse is bad. Oakland is bad. Seattle is trying to get Andrew Luck. San Fran is average, at best.
And those have nothing to do with their record last year.
Quote: Super Bowl MVP and Pro Bowl quarterback Mark Rypien.
Sometimes the team makes the qb look good.
Late 80s/Early 90s is irrelevant.
QB's make teams now.
Period.
And it still doesn't matter.. not even a little.
You can't tell me that a team that was bad last year is going to be bad this year. Things change a bunch from year to year.. from my perpective, SOS is meaningless.
You're right.
I can't say "Oh, they were bad last year, they'll be bad this year"
But, I can say that teams are going to be bad this year. Whether they were bad last year or not.
Cincy is awful. Tennesse is bad. Oakland is bad. Seattle is trying to get Andrew Luck. San Fran is average, at best.
And those have nothing to do with their record last year.
Absolutly correct.. I agree with you.. You look at a team like Cinci for instance, you see they have a rookie QB behind a suspect line with a rookie #1 Receiver and some missing pieces on D and you gotta conclude they won't be stronger than last season.. And last season they were awful.
So yeah, then you got something to work with. I can see that.
You can use last years results in that manner and I think it makes sense.
That's about it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
cmon now, it's not meaningless. it is not perfect and it is not something to spend an inordinate amount of time on, but there is something to it.
for instance, if we each get 4 teams in a pool to win the Superbowl, do you really think that you have as good of a chance at winning if you have "Seattle, Buffalo, Carolina, Cincinatti" and I have "Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Philly, Atlanta"?
it's about the likelihood that certain teams will be good. so, it is 'unlikely' that cincinatti will be as good of a team after losing their best CB and starting QB (while breaking in a rookie QB). and they picked 4th last year. so, it is likely they will be a bad team.
cmon now, it's not meaningless. it is not perfect and it is not something to spend an inordinate amount of time on, but there is something to it.
for instance, if we each get 4 teams in a pool to win the Superbowl, do you really think that you have as good of a chance at winning if you have "Seattle, Buffalo, Carolina, Cincinatti" and I have "Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Philly, Atlanta"?
it's about the likelihood that certain teams will be good. so, it is 'unlikely' that cincinatti will be as good of a team after losing their best CB and starting QB (while breaking in a rookie QB). and they picked 4th last year. so, it is likely they will be a bad team.
Key word in your comments is "Likelihood", The way folks talk about SOS around here, you'd think it's a foregone conclusion that all the teams that were bad last year will be bad this year.. Last years Bucs and Chiefs showed that not to be the case. You can go back and see it happen every years.. Hell, look at 2006 and tell me you really would belive that the Browns would come out in 2007 and win 10 games.
My point is, it's not accurate to view last years records for this years opponents is a valid method of determining anything.
Unless you look at it in conjuction with other facts.. ie: no palmer or Ochocinco in Cinci, or no Manning in Indy..
The Bengals were a bad team last year. take a look at what's gone on since then.. There isn't any reason to think they will be any better. In fact, there is every reason to think they'll be worse.
But you can't say that it's because they stunk last year. Not alone anyway and that's the way people seem to be looking at it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Daman is one of those people that needs the dead body in the truck, two eye witnesses and a signed confession before he believes the accused is guilty lol.
Quote: Daman is one of those people that needs the dead body in the truck, two eye witnesses and a signed confession before he believes the accused is guilty lol.
Better to let one hundred guilty men go free than to wrongly convict one innocent man...
Not really sure whats wrong with strongly believing a method of determining the SOS is flawed... perhaps you care to explain it to me..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
SOS is subjective. There is no perfect system and it is why everyone will have their own methodology.
Say the Colts go 12-4. 3 of those loses come without Manning. We beat the Colts without Manning. At the end of the year SOS will say we lost to a 12-4 team which is far from the reality of the situation.
Just have to base your opinion on a lot of different things. I look at our schedule and it is about as cupcake as you can get the first 10 weeks.
Right now I would rank the 10 worst teams in the league as Seattle, Cinn, SF, Carolina, Miami, Tenn, Arizona, KC, Jags, Indy (without Manning)
I really think the Bills, Browns and Broncos are going to be vastly improved this year. I am sure most experts would have those 3 in their top 10 worst teams category. So again it is subjective but I see a whole lot of games against really bad teams.
Quote: SOS is subjective. There is no perfect system and it is why everyone will have their own methodology.
Exactly, it's an imperfect academic exercise at best.
I'm just hoping that at the end of the year the fans of the teams we played are thinking their SOS was harder than they thought because they figured the Browns would be bad and they were wrong.
Quote: I really think the Bills, Browns and Broncos are going to be vastly improved this year.
Are you talking about on-field performance or final w/l record? I ask for clarification only because of this: our 07 campaign ended with 10-6 record, but it was because of a combo of weaker opposition and Chudz's smoke & mirrors. That 10-6 record bit us the following year, when our team played REAL NFL squads and was exposed for exactly what it was: full of holes, with mostly mediocre personnel and a playmaker or two.
Now- if you meant "vastly improved" to mean talent, that would be great. If you only meant final record, Browns fans could still be in for a rude 2012... just like they had in '08.
Bills= improved talent on defense plus improved chemistry between Fitzpatrick and Stevie Johnson
Browns= addition by subtraction. No Delhomme, St. Claire, Daboll, Mangini
Browns will not waste all week trying to learn 150 plays and the wildcat packages and end up running about 20 plays with 0 to 2 runs out of the wildcat.
Talent wise I think we are near the middle of the pack team with a very easy schedule which could make us a borderline playoff contender. I think it will take another year before we become legit. Anyway its all about matchups and fortunately for us this year we play a lot of teams that are really going to struggle to score points. That will hide a lot of our deficiencies.
Kinda funny the Falcons for instance are probably top 8 talent wise but their schedule could put them at 7-9 or less. It could be a lot less as they play a lot of really good defenses.
Browns aren't the only ones that schedule determines a great deal. Happened to Cowboys and Vikings as well. All about the matchups.
I can't answer for him but I think vastly improved will take the form of more consistent football. I think there will be times we look real good and times where we show our youth and our holes but I think we will look competent. Unlike long stretches last year where this team looked like they couldn't get a first down against Towson State.
How that will translate into the W/L columns I can't say but I think that Colt's grittiness and composure will be good for 1 or 2 wins that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise. For me that means I think we could win 8 or 9 games instead of the 6 or 7 that I had previously anticipated.
I have said this every year too, it will have a lot to do with confidence too. Go beat the Bengals and then beat Indy either with no Peyton or a very rusty Peyton and all of the sudden they might just start to believe they can win... and the effects of that are immeasurable.
Chemistry and confidence are just as important as talent and coaching. Team boiling over in confidence can do things they never imagined. A team in quicksand, no matter what they do it will only get worse and worse.
Its why I really like our chances as I see us getting off to a hell of a start lol.
Quote: it will have a lot to do with confidence too
Chemistry and confidence are just as important as talent and coaching. Team boiling over in confidence can do things they never imagined. A team in quicksand, no matter what they do it will only get worse and worse.
Its why I really like our chances as I see us getting off to a hell of a start lol.
Say last year we don't lose to the Jets (I'd say Fujita not getting hurt would help) we're 4-4, Coming in high (colt doesn't get hurt) and we beat the Jags (cause Fujita can actually tackle MJD) so we're 5-4, then we get the Bills and Bengals with a healthy Colt and momentum...
*sigh*
Anyways...
It's the Bengals, at home... I don't care if whether or not we should win... we need to win this game...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
I find it funny that you slam our players and coaches for last season .... yet say that the Falcons, with a comparable schedule and far superior talent, could go 7-9 ..... and that would be perfectly reasonable.
The old coaching staff isn't coming back ..... so why don't we just forget about them. There's no need to slam them at every possible opportunity. They did some things well, and others poorly, but let's be honest here ..... there was no way, barring a Super Bowl, that Mangini was going to be back here this season. Holmgren used him to get through the really, really hard year, then got rid of him for his hand picked coach when we have a much easier schedule.
Also ... a general comment ........
Either the schedule is a valid factor, or it isn't. I happen to think that it is a major factor as to how a team performs. Look at the DA 10-6 season compared to the following year. What was the biggest change? We had a much more difficult schedule in the 2nd year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
thanks, Mourg and DC. It helps to know the thinking behind posts.
Agreed, regarding matchups, M We may not have true 'parity' in the NFL, but we do at least have a setup that can allow a team like ours to pull itself together quickly (in the right hands, that is-). Good for the game, good for the fans.
DC: a fast start can help in a number of ways, including confidence. For me, the best part is not having to play yourself out of a hole. In this division, you can bet that Pitt and Balto will start their seasons in the plus column, and our team's only shot is to keep pace with them. Realistically, we should expect wild card status at best for the post season... and that's only really possible if we stay within a game or 2 of these guys. I'd love to see us at 2-0 after 2 games- tht could change a lot about the season.
I did not say we couldn't win a wild card spot. What I meant was a wild card is realistically the best we can hope for (this year) because we don't have the horses to outpull Pitt or Balto and win the division outright.
Why not us? I agree... you just missed what I meant-
Quote: Either the schedule is a valid factor, or it isn't. I happen to think that it is a major factor as to how a team performs. Look at the DA 10-6 season compared to the following year. What was the biggest change? We had a much more difficult schedule in the 2nd year.
I don't believe it can be because teams are mostly different each year. What they did last year has no baring on what they will do this year.. none
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I'm not sure if you two are just arguing for the sake of arguing or not.
I'll hazard a guess and say that you both already know that reality is right in the middle between your two extreme arguments.
We "know" that Pittsburgh and Baltimore are going to be tough games, and those come at the end of the season.
We also "know" that Cinci is going to be terrible. They were terrible last year, and have done nothing to reverse that trend for this year so far.
SoS, to me, means the overall toughness of your games for the entire year. For us, we have a relatively easy stretch for the first 10 games. One or even two of those teams might have a Tampa Bay type of year, but that's about it. The rest should perform right in line with expectations.
That's how it usually works out. You have a couple (2-3) teams in the league every year that have a surprise season, a couple teams that have a crappy season, and most everyone else falls right into where they're supposed to.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Quote: I'm not sure if you two are just arguing for the sake of arguing or not.
I'll hazard a guess and say that you both already know that reality is right in the middle between your two extreme arguments.
We "know" that Pittsburgh and Baltimore are going to be tough games, and those come at the end of the season.
We also "know" that Cinci is going to be terrible. They were terrible last year, and have done nothing to reverse that trend for this year so far.
SoS, to me, means the overall toughness of your games for the entire year. For us, we have a relatively easy stretch for the first 10 games. One or even two of those teams might have a Tampa Bay type of year, but that's about it. The rest should perform right in line with expectations.
That's how it usually works out. You have a couple (2-3) teams in the league every year that have a surprise season, a couple teams that have a crappy season, and most everyone else falls right into where they're supposed to.
Actually, we don't "KNOW" any of that.. we assume it and evidence points to that all being accurate, but we can't possible know it.
A few years back, Pittsburgh won a superbowl with Cowher as the HC.. the next year, they weren't very good at all.. So while everyone, including me, KNEW they'd be good,, we were wrong.
That's why they play the games......
SOS based on last year results will never be accurate. Doesn't, by itself tell you anything but the record. But you can use it as a barometer when associated with other information. Such as who was signed, who retired etc etc.. essentially taking into account changes in the team or coaching staff.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I guess what I was trying to say was that you won't have a wholesale change of all the NFL teams you play from one year into another.
One or two of the teams you play might have a radical change, but that's really it.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Quote: Talent wise I think we are near the middle of the pack team with a very easy schedule which could make us a borderline playoff contender.
The jury is still out, but i don't agree with this assessment....this team is no where near middle of the pack....
Our DE are nothing to write home about...in fact..i would rate them below average...Sheard...im hot-cold on him...he doesn't look like an every down DE in this league from what I have seen so far....he may get there, he may not....its a flip of the coin.
Our DT are eh...Rubin is a near Pro Bowl 3-4 NT...but that doesn't make him a good 4-3 DT...4-3 Dt have to rush the passer somewhat...see Warren Sapp, Rice, John Randle, Shawn Rogers, Michael Dean Perry...i haven't seen "pocket push" from Rubin....as i said..Rubin is a bona fide Pro Bowl type of 3-4 NT...he is a space eater...thats what he does, and he does it well...im nor sure he translated to the 4-3 Dt spot though,...we will see....Phil Taylor has the size....the question remains can het get the job done? only time will tell....
at CB we got weaker with the loss of Eric Wright...Wright was a very good player, one of the more under-rated DB...he was ranked in the Top 7 in the league by many experts prior to last year...he had a down year...and he was also hurt....I think we really lost a good player in Wright and we will feel it this year....
Abe Elam wasn't "that bad" either...i would take Elam over Young....Elam was pretty good tackler too...he wans't the best safety, but I think Elam was better then Young will be for us...
we lost Steinbach...he is a big part of this OL...he is much better then folks here give him credit for...
our LB outside of Jackson...well...let me just say...if Jackson goes down this year...we will be in big trouble...because he is really the only viable LB we have....Fujita is serviceable...Jackson is a bit better then him though....so yeah....our LB core gives me nightmares...
Haden and Ward i look to progress and get better as the year goes on....
We have to real RB behind Hillis....the only thing Hardesty has proven is he gets hurt...the dude has done nothing...and i won't be suprised if the kid is shelved by week 6....
Colt McCoy....i was the biggest McCoiy cheerleader there ever was, I think Colt McCoy will be a winner in this league...but not this year....this kid needs at least another 2 years to grow while we put a team around him(get him another RB, a bona fide WR, and a serviceable #2)...this is a growing year for Colt...to expect a 90 rating out of the kid this year is unfair....
This team is still a good way off of competing on a regular basis...even a blind kid finds a 4 leaf clover every once in awhile (10-6 in 2007)....this team also has serious problems with depth...im not going to go there...we may have the worst depth at DL/LB/S in the whole league...with Wr being a major concern.....
This team is still 3 solid drafts(if we hit on most of our picks) and Fa periods away from fielding a legitimate NFL team that can compete year in and year out even with a few injuries...we just don't have the talent...middle of the pack teams can take a few injuries and still finish 7-9 or 8-8...we get a few injuries...were looking at 3-13....i expect 5 or 6 wins this year...and a solid year of growth...
Quote: Either the schedule is a valid factor, or it isn't. I happen to think that it is a major factor as to how a team performs.
It is a large factor, but its also very dynamic. You can't simply point to a schedule at a single point in time and make definitive statements. Players get hurt, they emerge as stars, they go into funks, and myriad other things happen over the course of a 4-month season. Who thought that Josh Freeman would post the second highest TD/INT ratio and sixth-best passer rating last year? Michael Vick play at an MVP level? Arian Foster? Jamaal Charles? Peyton freakin' Hillis? Did anybody expect a month ago that Peyton Manning's season and possibly his career could be over?
Quote: Look at the DA 10-6 season compared to the following year. What was the biggest change? We had a much more difficult schedule in the 2nd year.
That was a pretty big change. We were also riddled with injuries after staying healthy pretty much the entire 2007 season. Braylon, Joe J. and K2 all had major injury issues, and we had two fourth-quarter meltdowns that could've otherwise had us at 5-4 at that point in the season.
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