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Quote:
Phil Loadholt out of Oklahoma
To be fair, most scouting reports that I read on him didn't think he'd be a starter whereas, most scouting reports on Robo said he was the most NFL Ready receiver in the draft.
I would hope/think that pro scouts for teams would be able to sort through and seperate fact from fiction, but sometimes, that just isn't the case.
I can see where, based on those reports, that Robo would look like the better pick of the two....
Hindsight is 20/20..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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When I watched Briana Robiskie at OSU,he didn't do anything at the X position that made me think "wow this guy is the complete package at WR"
Like I said I'm sure is dad did a great job of inflating his son's talent level with pro scouts....
so far Briana has proven me right..at best a 3rd WR who cannot blow past #1 and #2 CB's in this league or get open on a regular basis
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No one said he was a "complete package" at WR, Complete packages aren't picked in the 2nd round...
He has solid hands, isn't fast but isn't slow either, he's a prototypical possesion receiver... Think Joe J.
And secondly, Why do you HATE Brian Robiskie so fricken much? Did he bite you as a child?
Last edited by OSGuy; 09/17/11 03:29 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Loadholt hasnt even been all that great during his time in Minnesota...He's been okay but his pass protection is subpar
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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So long as he's not always in a walking boot I'd take him.
#gmstrong
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Flozell Adams is available. Could sign him to a 1 yr deal
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So you want an Olineman that was cut by a team that has had more Oline problems than we have the past few years...?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Steelers cut him because they can't afford him... I said he was available, not that i wanted to sign him. But with the problems we are having, it might be worth it. We have the cap space this year.
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This is my question.
Everyone complains that Pashos is always hurt, and are mad because H&H relied on him even though he's always hurt...
But.. Is he even any good? I honestly am asking because I don't know...
But anywhoo, I doubt we're ganan bring anyone in at this point. I say we're set from LT to RG and just find the best possible fit at RT for this year... Let the line gel and quit messing with it...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Also, Flozell was forced to fill in as a LT for them, correct? He had a rough season that year.
People say he always was a RT instead of left. I laughed at the Steelers for grabbing him up, but now I'm thinking he might not be a bad signing.
Stupid Pashos....
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quote:
When I watched Briana Robiskie at OSU,he didn't do anything at the X position that made me think "wow this guy is the complete package at WR"
Like I said I'm sure is dad did a great job of inflating his son's talent level with pro scouts....
so far Briana has proven me right..at best a 3rd WR who cannot blow past #1 and #2 CB's in this league or get open on a regular basis
WHY must you refer to him as Briana? do you think it's funny? do you fashion yourself as a Jim Rome Clone? or is it that you just can't spell?
Sickening
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Quote:
Also, Flozell was forced to fill in as a LT for them, correct? He had a rough season that year.
People say he always was a RT instead of left. I laughed at the Steelers for grabbing him up, but now I'm thinking he might not be a bad signing.
Stupid Pashos....
Adams played RT for Pittsburgh after playing LT for most of his career in Dallas. People probably say he was a RT because he's deaf in his right ear, which, if he's playing LT, is the ear closer to the QB.
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Hmm, sounds like I got it pretty backwards...
I never knew about the deaf thing, though.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Probably part of the reason he always led the league in false starts.
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The Packers realize, if they are going to continue winning, they must have the best possible Oline they can put on the field...thus Oline is a high priority for the Packer franchise...in short...the Packers "get it".
This is "Playoff Team-building 101."
Great post, mac.
I'll NEVER be opposed to taking OL and DL players high in the draft... I don't care what flashy "impact player" is available.
Jow T was the absolute RIGHT choice for Our Team when he became available.... and I'll always support a JoeT-type choice in the draft.....
... because, if you can't win the trench war, you can't do anything.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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and I'll always support a JoeT-type choice in the draft.....
To be fair, that choice rarely comes down the pike.
We rarely draft for the lines. And when we do it hasn't always worked out.
Since return:
Phil Taylor
Jabaal Sheard
Shawn Lauvao
Clifton Geathers
Alex Mack
Ahtyba Rubin
Joe Thomas
Melila Purcell
Chase Pittman
Isaac Sowells
Babatunde Oshinowo
Andrew Hoffman
Jon Dunn
Amon Gordon
Kirk Chambers
Jeff Faine
Ryan Pontbriand
Antonio Garay
Melvin Fowler
Joaquin Gonzalez
Gerard Warren
Paul Zukauskas
Courtney Brown
Brad Bedell
Marcus Spriggs
Most of them forgettable, most of them late rounders.
We tend to do well when drafting o-line early, and fail miserably when drafting d-line early.
But I think we're in the dark on the idea of drafting a failure at O-line with a high pick, because it's not something we're used to. Since we rarely pick the O-line guy high, we merely expect that it pans out.
For instance ... a lot of o-lineman that were drafted high by other teams are still valued very highly by posters on this board ... regardless of their performance.
A lot of folks still pimp the hell out of Loadholt as the RT of the future that we passed on for Robiskie ... and seem entirely unaware that Minnesota fans are hoping that a light turns on for him.
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One thing that has to be considered here is where teams are picking also. I would be willing to bet that the good teams go best player available when its their pick.
Playoff teams are picking at the end of the first round. By this point the Joe T's are gone, as are many of the best flashy positions...or the stud at any position.
When these teams get to finally pick many of them are looking at linemen that are bpa as apposed to picking the 3rd or 4th best of one of those other positions.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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jc...
Here is the bottom line that I want to emphasis...
Those complaining about the play of our skilled position players on offense need to realize, those players are not going to be able to utilize their skills unless those guys up front, the offensive linemen, are able to do their job.
It does not matter if our skilled players are 1st, 2nd, 3rd or later round selections, they will not be able to play to their potential unless the Oline is able to protect the QB and open holes for the RBs.
The skilled position players on offense will never be able to perform to their ability if the OLine does not do their job.
Also, I do understand where Holmgren and Heckert are in the rebuilding the process. The Browns are in year #2 of a process that is going to take 3 to 5 yrs to complete.
I'm hoping that the Browns Oline coaches are doing all they can "to teach" this patchwork of an Oline how to do their jobs well enough to allow our skilled players to perform better.
I will be watching for "improvement", understanding the Browns have a ways to go before they a worthy of "high expectations".
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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One of the reasons our OL has been so horrible over the years is that the tackles were drafted in later rounds with the expectations of playing tackle and not moving inside.
Pinkston was drafted in the 5th but projected as a guard at the NFL level. I think Robert Gallery in the 1st round was drafted to play tackle, bombed, and is now doing just fine as a guard.
Players such as Kirk Chambers that were drafted low may have been better off playing guard instead of forced into the tackle position.
The point is, true NFL left tackles are drafted in the higher rounds. The "can't miss" prospects such as Joe T. get drafted in the 1st round. Right tackles can be found in mid rounds the same as guards. Centers and guards can be found in lower rounds.Shaun O'Hara was an UDFA.
Another example is Ross Verba. Did fine as a guard. Had to move out to LT. The results were not as good.
MAC,
I'm not in agreement that we have a patchwork OL. I see a method to their madness, so to speak.....
Joe Thomas: was signed long term.
Pinkston: was drafted to be Steinbach's eventual replacement.Had to play sooner than expected.
Mack: is young.
Lauvao: drafted in the 3rd will pan out. Be patient.
Pashos: is better than average when not in a walking boot.
Cousins: was already on the radar as a back-up if he got cut.
Hicks: He might be the player that salvages the 1st half of the season.
We have 4/5 of a potentially great starting OL for years to come.
Again, Hicks and Cousins have not been with the team very long. They need time to get used to different schemes, team mates, city, practice facility, move their family and plasma TV etc.
My not so bold prediction is that the offense and the OL will get better as the season progresses. It might not be as evident at the end of the season as the quality of defenses we face increases.
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Yep.
Look at a lot of the better teams and they have 1 or maybe 2 guys on the OL taken high, and a lot of low round or UDFA types. They seem to do just fine.
For some reason people think that we can't have a quality OL unless we have 1st round picks from LT to RT. It simply is not the case ... at least as most good teams show.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I can spell..I call him Briana cause he is soft. he rarely fights a CB for the football...his stalk blocking is questionable..
do I hate the guy? Nope but he doesn't produce on the field. if you don't produce,I don't like you. I don't care if he went to OSU,Akron or Vermont State.
If Robiskie didn't go to OSU,he would be criticized alot more.
the guy is on par for another 30 catch season and he will produce in the last half of the year when the Browns are out of the playoff race as usual.
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Are you thinking of Maasaquoi? Robiskie is actually a pretty solid blocker in the run game and fights for passes at least as well as any of our guys.
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He seems to be a guy who has a predetermined idea, who will hold onto that idea no matter what happens on the field.
Robiske has really good hands, fights for the ball well, runs precise routes, and blocks well. He's just not a fast guy. There should still be a place for him on a WCO team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Look at a lot of the better teams and they have 1 or maybe 2 guys on the OL taken high, and a lot of low round or UDFA types. They seem to do just fine.
The Pats start one 1st rounder, two 2nd rounders, a 5th rounder (until he got injured last week) and a 2011 FA signing who is a 5-time Pro Bowler.
Baltimore starts four 1st rounders (three drafted by Baltimore) and 2009 FA signing who is a 6-time Pro Bowler.
The Pack have one 1st rounder, two 4ths, a 5th and a 7th.
Pittsburgh starts a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, a 4th rounder (before he was lost to IR), and some late round picks and UDFAs.
I'd argue that these are the four best teams in the NFL. It's interesting that there's a 50/50 split between them with regards to mostly high-round picks vs. primarily later-round guys.
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I guess you missed his pretty strong block that sprung Cribbs his kickoff return last week..
Most everyone on here is very very careful not to overvalue OSU players. Yet the theory persists that if a guy comes from OSU, he's thought more highly of than from any other team
I'm convinced that since your arguments don't really hold water, we are back to "you can't spell"
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Robiske has really good hands, fights for the ball well, runs precise routes, and blocks well. He's just not a fast guy.
You forgot never gets open.
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Quote:
Quote:
Look at a lot of the better teams and they have 1 or maybe 2 guys on the OL taken high, and a lot of low round or UDFA types. They seem to do just fine.
The Pats start one 1st rounder, two 2nd rounders, a 5th rounder (until he got injured last week) and a 2011 FA signing who is a 5-time Pro Bowler.
Baltimore starts four 1st rounders (three drafted by Baltimore) and 2009 FA signing who is a 6-time Pro Bowler.
The Pack have one 1st rounder, two 4ths, a 5th and a 7th.
Pittsburgh starts a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, a 4th rounder (before he was lost to IR), and some late round picks and UDFAs.
I'd argue that these are the four best teams in the NFL. It's interesting that there's a 50/50 split between them with regards to mostly high-round picks vs. primarily later-round guys.
Recent Browns OL picks:
Thomas : 1st
Pinkston: 5th
Mack: 1st
Lauvao: 3rd
others and their draft rounds:
Pashos 5th
Steinbach: 2nd
Oneil Cousins 3rd
Steve Vallos: 7th
John Greco: 3rd
Artis Hicks: UDFA
Prolly the greatest head scratcher for me is John Greco. Shurmer seemed to like him enough to pursue him. He had some strong measureables going into the 2008 draft. He has since slid down the Rams depth chart and now ours behind a rookie and two recent acquisitions.
If both Cousins and Greco pan out as decent back-ups I'll be one happy Linejudge. They both have 3rd round pedigrees so someone thought highly of them at one point.
But I do agrre that if neither Cousins nor Greco pan out as out future RT we will need a high 4th rounder at least to put the matter to rest.
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Quote:
jc...
Here is the bottom line that I want to emphasis...
Those complaining about the play of our skilled position players on offense need to realize, those players are not going to be able to utilize their skills unless those guys up front, the offensive linemen, are able to do their job.
It does not matter if our skilled players are 1st, 2nd, 3rd or later round selections, they will not be able to play to their potential unless the Oline is able to protect the QB and open holes for the RBs.
The skilled position players on offense will never be able to perform to their ability if the OLine does not do their job.
Also, I do understand where Holmgren and Heckert are in the rebuilding the process. The Browns are in year #2 of a process that is going to take 3 to 5 yrs to complete.
I'm hoping that the Browns Oline coaches are doing all they can "to teach" this patchwork of an Oline how to do their jobs well enough to allow our skilled players to perform better.
I will be watching for "improvement", understanding the Browns have a ways to go before they a worthy of "high expectations".
Bingo. Nice post . PRETENDING or lets say holding tenaciously to the delusion Pashos was a quality RT or could stay injury free costs the offense. It causes more blows to mcCoy. less ability to run right, less time to throw which affects every skill player we have.
kudos to the front office for their ostrich like approach in free agency regarding our oline.
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kudos to the front office for their ostrich like approach in free agency regarding our oline.
lil joe...Just who was available in free agency at the time Pashos went down?
If you are trying to say that Pashos could not be a decent RT when healthy, you would be wrong. Pashos was a decent RT until the injury bug started striking him, starting with a broken shoulder when he was playing with the 49ers. That injury broke a streak of Pashos starting 16 games his last season with the Ravens and starting 15 games and 16 games the following two years with the Jags.
But since the shoulder injury in 2009, he missed most of last season with an ankle and this season, again he is dealing with an ankle injury this season. In 2010, Pashos started 3 games for the Browns and played in 6 games and I can tell you, he was not chopped liver as far as his ability to block.
I'm a believer in drafting our own offensive linemen so we don't have to pursue free agents.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Hey, all it took was for mac to disagree with joe for me to agree with something he said! 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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lil joe...Just who was available in free agency at the time Pashos went down?
How much you wanna bet he won't answer that 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
lil joe...Just who was available in free agency at the time Pashos went down?
How much you wanna bet he won't answer that
I still don't know why mac feels the need to call everyone disparaging names. I don;t know why he gets away with it either.
I will answer his question though, even though it wasn't directed to me ......
There were probably very few RT available "when Pashos went down". That was during the 1st week of the season. There aren't too many experienced, front line starters sitting at home during the start of the season, waiting for the phone to ring.
The front office could have looked into one of the free agent RTs available during free agency. They chose not to, instead feeling that Pashos would be fine.
He's not.
The front office was wrong about him. He is not ready to go, and it is week 3 of the season. From the fact that he has not even worked out on the side tells me that he will not be ready to go any time soon. The term "IR" has been bandied about regarding him. That's worrisome.
The front office chose to rely upon Pashos, knowing that he has not played a full season since 2008 .... and has only played a total of 11 games in 2009, 2010, and 2011 combined.
There may, or may not have been a better player than him available in free agency ... but there were probably better players than Hicks/Cousins available. The front office chose not to pursue any of them, instead believing that Pashos would be ready to go.
He's not.
They could have brought in a starter at RT during free agency if they had chosen to do so. They decided that they had their starter.
Do they?
Not yet.
Again.
That being said, I don't know that I would have wanted to see the front office overpay for a guy the level of Kevin Shaffer. However to say that they had no options, or limiting it to only the start of the season or beyond, is disingenuous.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The thing is, it seems that everyone is writing off pashos for the year. Now maybe that's what will happen., Dunno, but they aren't talking like that.
As for could we have gotten one and replaced Pashos.. maybe. It's been a really wierd year with the lock out and all. Normal went out the window in March. We could have drafted one I guess but would who we could have drafted this year be able to start any better than cousins?
We can talk about another draft where we could have gotten Loadholt, but from what I've read, he's not exactly setting the world on fire either.
Coulda, shoulda, woulda.
I'm thinking that the FO felt that Pashos was thier best option and I have little doubt the medical staff gave them a thumbs up on him before the season.
heckert isn't an idiot. if he'd have been able to predict with any certainty that Pashos would go down, I'm certain he'd have taken steps to get another guy in here.
I'm equally sure that he will eventually get us a new RT. just like he found Pinkston who, (dispite what some are saying) is really starting to show up well for us. He's a rook so count on mistakes.. But he improved in one week. Can't wait to see if the improvement continues.
Lauvio seems to be catching on as well. Again, with all the time he missed last year, this is like his rookie year..
I really think Heckert would have drafted a RT if one was available that HE liked.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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but there were probably better players than Hicks/Cousins available. The front office chose not to pursue any of them,
Do we know for a fact that they didn't pursue any of them or were they just not successful? I know what they SAID about being happy (just like at WR) but that doesn't mean that behind the scenes they weren't chasing somebody... just curious.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
but there were probably better players than Hicks/Cousins available. The front office chose not to pursue any of them,
Do we know for a fact that they didn't pursue any of them or were they just not successful? I know what they SAID about being happy (just like at WR) but that doesn't mean that behind the scenes they weren't chasing somebody... just curious.
We may never know for sure. But my guess is, they chased, didn't land.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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that's why you draft them 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,423
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,423 |
I never heard of them going after any OL ..... except the guys they got.
Heckert originally tried to trade for Hicks weeks before he was released. I think that he wanted Hicks to take the spot Yates would have had, and/or to take Steinbach's spot after he was injured.
We can assume anything, but he is really the only name that surfaced ... so he's the only player I can assume that he pursued at RT.
He also said that we were set at RT, and he said that repeatedly. That tells me that he probably wasn't out there digging like crazy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,864
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,864 |
Quote:
I never heard of them going after any OL ..... except the guys they got.
Heckert originally tried to trade for Hicks weeks before he was released. I think that he wanted Hicks to take the spot Yates would have had, and/or to take Steinbach's spot after he was injured.
We can assume anything, but he is really the only name that surfaced ... so he's the only player I can assume that he pursued at RT.
He also said that we were set at RT, and he said that repeatedly. That tells me that he probably wasn't out there digging like crazy.
Anything is possible. today for instance, Shurmurs live presser, he was asked about the RT spot and basically said there wasn't much of a difference between Hicks and Cousins. Then he noted strengths of each.
They can't be pleased with either, but I don't expect them to really tell us anything like that.
By the way, they don't have the video of his live presser up yet, but I have no doubt they will before long. It was pretty interesting.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
Quote:
I never heard of them going after any OL ..... except the guys they got.
Heckert originally tried to trade for Hicks weeks before he was released. I think that he wanted Hicks to take the spot Yates would have had, and/or to take Steinbach's spot after he was injured.
We can assume anything, but he is really the only name that surfaced ... so he's the only player I can assume that he pursued at RT.
He also said that we were set at RT, and he said that repeatedly. That tells me that he probably wasn't out there digging like crazy.
IIRC
Heckert stated that they were looking into acquiring Cousins before Steinbach got hurt. Cousins was awarded off waivers the 29th of August.
Looks to me that the FO was planning to bolster the OL before Steinbach went or IR and Pashos got his walking boot.
The point I'm trying to make in this post and a few others is that the FO has not neglected the OL. They have tried to bring in the personnel they thought could do the job.
Considering who was available, we prolly got the pick of the litter.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,278
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,278 |
j/c
Who was a better option in FA?
McKinnie is the only one I can think of that switched teams...and he was going to The University of Miami in Baltimore.
I don't remember any other RTs that were an upgrade who changed teams.
If Steinbach doesn't go on IR, and we sign Cousins and maybe even Hicks anyway...then Pinkston might be starting at RT right now.
I don't like how things panned out...but I don't think the OL was neglected by our FO.
We had/have a ton of upgradeable spots.
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