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Maybe he would have gotten some playing time due to injuries, just like with us....but who else would have crowned him their starter for THIS season? I still think it was rather naive after such a small sample of games and DCs not even adjusting...I think he is our starter more by default than choice to be totally blunt about it....FA guys didn't look too good, especially after the Delhomme blunder...so what options were left?
I think the fact that McCoy was so popular among fans also played a role in the decision making....we could have gotten Gabbert or Dalton (twice, even after the trade down)...we already passed on those 2 "to see" if McCoy is the real deal....we might have already made the "Frye, DA, Quinn"-mistake right there...I absolutely want to avoid this the upcoming offseason/draft....decent QB class, 2 1st rounders...get it done
I do not agree that we are too talentless anywhere else to look for a QB...I really think QB is pretty much our weakest spot next to WR in comparison to the league...also, I would ALWAYS draft a QB to build around 1st THEN the other parts as QBs need more time than most other positions to fully develop their potential...I would start with OL and then grab my QB...we have a decent OL in place, we have decent RBs, TEs...we lack WRs (though Little looks like an upgrade) but it's not a horrible supporting cast AT ALL imho...QB play is what's holding this O back more than anything right now...in my eyes it's our biggest need at the moment
This team has some talent....the D is shaping up nicely...I don't agree with getting anything else in place 1st since it would waste the prime years at other positions with a rook or 2nd year QB, no matter how talented he is...QBs need time. You build an Offense and team around OL and QB and then get the rest
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Since Django mentioned Cassel as one of the QB's he'd take Colt over, I went to NFL.com and checked something out.. in 2008 (his last year w NE) his stats are absolutely comparable to Rodgers 2010 year at GB.
The point is.. Cassel was playing with a much better team than he is now. More talent and better coached. That makes a difference.
Comparing QB's without looking at the context of what they have to work with doesn't make much sense. Nor is it fair.
Cassell's numbers last year are every bit as good as they were in NE.
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The majority of those teams built viable systems with solid talent, and then plugged in a QB.
This is exactly what we need to do..
Holmgren saw talent in Colt.. Heckert sees it.. Shurmur sees it.. ride him til' we get this team suited up at all the other positions FIRST and THEN make the judgement on who will be getting the start at QB.
We build at the other positions for another 2 seasons, and I guarantee it that we will benefit more doing that, than drafting another 1st round QB anytime soon.
Heres where I disagree on not drafting a QB in the first round.
Say we don't draft one, we fill holes, add playmakers and fix the right side of the line. Thats all fine and good and it is probably a smart way of doing things. However if we do those things and Colt STILL can't win us games we are right back where we started in a sense. Looking for a franchise QB.
I have used this term before and after every QB we have been through I still firmly believe in it. We need and "INSURANCE POLICY".
Believe me I like Colt and I would like Colt to succeed but after having a different starting QB year in and year out it we need to cover our rear so we don't have to deal with this crap ever again. I don't know about you but I am sick of dealing with it.
It's time the front office and the fans put all feelings aside towards whatever qb may be on the roster and start doing what's best for the team. And that is if your not 110% sure the guy you have is going to be THE guy then you have to have some sort of back-up plan set in place.
With the new rookie wage scale set in place, us having 2 first round picks and the quarterback play so far this season I see absolutely no reason why we shouldn't draft a quarterback in the first round, giving us a chance at a higher success rate.
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Well, the good news is that there are 12 more games which just get incrementally tougher throughout the season. There should be plenty of info at the end of the season so there aren't any questions one way or another. Just hope he stays healthy.
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You want a reason not to waste a first round pick on a QB:
Akili Smith. Or how about Joey Harrington, or Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, etc. There are very few "franchise QB's that are around and even less that are easily identified as such (hence Brady in the 6th, Brees in the 2nd, or Warner nowhere). The easiest way to win consistently is the Ravens formula. Build a great defense, develop a great running game, get a game managing QB (either Colt developing or a veteran), and only when you have the other pieces in place do you take a flier on a first round guy to plug in (and even they dropped the ball with Boller).
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If the 2 minute offense is played behind the line of scrimmage, it will always appear that a different QB would be a good idea.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Mark Sanchez is the guy with all the tools except upstairs. He has closer to an elite arm, but still hasn't managed to put it all together. He reminds me a bit of DA in a way. he will reel off 3 or 4 really good throws and then one that makes the coaching staff pull their hair out.
His arm really isn't that good. He's a bottom 5-10 QB right now.
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His arm is above average. He can make all the throws ..... you just never know what you're going to get at the other end.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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His arm is above average. He can make all the throws ..... you just never know what you're going to get at the other end.
He's like a box of chocolates! 
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His arm is above average. He can make all the throws ..... you just never know what you're going to get at the other end.
His arm is average. It's better than McCoy's. But it's aveage.
Sanchez is not a smart QB, and he'll chuck it.
I actually wish McCoy would start acting a little like Sanchez. I'll take 3 picks, a pick six here or there, and even a loss just to see McCoy attempt these passes. It would tell us so much. Can he make the throws? Is it really the WRs? And maybe it will help his confidence in making the throws. Maybe he can make them, he just doesn't think he can. Force him to anticipate, throw the ball to a spot.
But if I here one more time that he doesn't trust his WRs I'm going to go crazy. What's not to trust about a guy who's wide open.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Or short to short. As far as he got for most of the game. Locking in more and more. We need more "true" vertical routes and a greater mix of longer routes. If we can't get open one on one, then twins or trips. But Colt is good enough. With a badly called game, weak line protection, practically runless mix, and a non-tackling defense giving up long plays, Luck will do no better. Any team CAN destroy itself with apathy and indifference. The penalties, whiffs, and snappy explanations say more than the interviews to me. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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j/c McCoy completed passes to (11) different receivers....(5) of those receivers had 5-6 catches...(1) guy had (3) catches. One of the 5-6 catches guys had (4) drops...at least. (Not to mention the defensive PI call where the flag got picked up...somehow...again going against our favor...along with a couple other PI calls that STOOD where yet another reception was likely.) I think he took what was given to him. He could have played better and the INT pick-6 was simply awful...no excuse...and he said he made a dumb play there. In the end and at this point: To annoint him as "the guy" or to say "he sucks" is simply ridiculous at this point. He was treated like a leper by the "coaching staff" last year and got zero attention (snaps) until thrown to the wolves last year. This year he gets a lockout, no OTAs, a new HC, and a new offense. With a bunch of players also new to the offense and loses 40% of his starting OL for the first (3) games of the year. His #1 receiver did not practice in TC this year and his #2 did not play football last year...his #3 used to be a QB. How people can claim he absolutely cannot be the guy after what...8 starts...with the deck stacked against him...is beyond me  Not to mention that the overall talent on the entire team remains a work in progress. We don't know yet whether he can be "the guy"...we simply don't know yet. We need to give it time...and we have no choice but to do so.
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People can claim that he isn't the guy on these boards because they fancy themselves nfl scouts, who if just given the opportunity could do a better job than the actual scouts we have. I for one am more than willing to wait this out and see if Colt actually can get it before we waste yet another high pick on a gamble at QB. Colt may not be the answer, but at least give him a reasonable chance to prove it with some actual talent around him.
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Quote:
You want a reason not to waste a first round pick on a QB:
Akili Smith. Or how about Joey Harrington, or Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, etc. There are very few "franchise QB's that are around and even less that are easily identified as such
The last 20 Super Bowl winning QB's ...
2011 - Aaron Rodgers - 1st Round
2010 - Drew Brees - 2nd Round (First pick of 2nd round)
2009 - Ben Rothlisberger - 1st Round
2008 - Eli Manning - 1st Round
2007 - Peyton Manning - 1st Round
2006 - Ben Rothlisberger - 1st Round
2005 - Tom Brady - 6th Round
2004 - Tom Brady - 6th Round
2003 - Brad Johnson - 9th Round
2002 - Tom Brady - 6th Round
2001 - Trent Dilfer - 1st Round
2000 - Kurt Warner - Undrafted
1999 - John Elway - 1st Round
1998 - John Elway - 1st Round
1997 - Brett Favre - 2nd Round
1996 - Troy Aikman - 1st Round
1995 - Steve Young - 1st Round
1994 - Troy Aikman - 1st Round
1993 - Troy Aikman - 1st Round
1992 - Mark Rypien - 6th Round
In the last 20 years, there have been 6 QB's NOT drafted in the first round to win a Super Bowl (Rypien, Warner, Johnson, Brady, Brees, Favre)
There have been 8 QB's drafted in the first round.
There has been ONE multiple Super Bowl winning QB NOT drafted in the 1st round (Brady).
Of the first round Quarterbacks, Aikman won 3 Superbowls, Elway won 2, Rothlisberger has won 2.
Give me a first round QB. Don't wait on the next Tom Brady.
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j/c
My question to everyone is this:
What happened to all the faith in Holmgren being the QB guru? We can debate until we're blue in the face, but ultimately Holmgren makes the decisions and Colt is his boy.
So by saying you don't think Colt is the answer, are you also saying Holmgren does not know what he's doing? Or are you saying you know more about QB's than Holmgren and Heckert...
Just asking why all the debate about Colt...
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We don't know yet whether he can be "the guy"...we simply don't know yet. We need to give it time...and we have no choice but to do so.
This is what this whole Colt -debate comes down to..at least for me...why do we have no other "choice"? If you meant THIS season, I'm on board...but if you're talking long term or even next season...why don't have no other choice? In fact we have multiple (draft) choices to go in another direction
In my scenario both fan-sides get what they want: I want a 1st round QB talent in the next draft, who sits while Colt gets at least the first half of 2012...if Colt stays healthy, he'll have a body of work of 30 NFL starts by then....if he transforms into Brees...great, we have 2 QBs and QBs, esp. 1st round QBs ALWAYS have value, esp. when they have not hit the field yet (heck, even Quinn who crapped the field got us Hillis and 2 6ths back)
It's ok if fans have confidence in Colt but if so, why do you fear the competition of a 1st round QB? It's the most important position in this game, so it's never really a wasted pick (see above for "value")....why not have a "safety net" just in case Colt turns into Frye?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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And for every one of those "Super Bowl Winning, First Round Picks" there have been what 6-7 first round busts (thats for each one of those QB's).
Let alone it is the people like you that would have run a Troy Aikman out of town before he ever was able to become good since he had ratings of 55.7 and 66.6 his first two years in the league.
And at this point why are we even talking about a Super Bowl. I would be happy just making the playoffs consistently at this point and it doesn't take a first round QB to do that.
Why do you have any faith that the next first round QB we pick is going to be any better than the first two we took (since we came back)?
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Because it is a wasted pick when you have so many other holes that could use a first rounder too. We don't have the luxury of gambling on yet another first round QB project when we still have no #1 WR, a bad right side of the OL, and huge needs at DB and LB.
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Quote:
j/c
My question to everyone is this:
What happened to all the faith in Holmgren being the QB guru? We can debate until we're blue in the face, but ultimately Holmgren makes the decisions and Colt is his boy.
So by saying you don't think Colt is the answer, are you also saying Holmgren does not know what he's doing? Or are you saying you know more about QB's than Holmgren and Heckert...
Just asking why all the debate about Colt...
Holmgren was very limited in his choices for qb. We were definitely out of the running for Bradford, and the only other 2 qb's available in that draft were Tebow and Claussen. There were 3 others taken after McCoy that have not panned out in the NFL. Available FA were Jason Campbell, Matt Kolb along with Delhomme and Wallace. We also had the option of sticking with Quinn/Anderson. Looking at it this way, we'd have had to trade up for Claussen or Tebow, paid out the arse for Kolb, or do what we did in choosing between Wallace, Delhomme and Campbell.....then draft McCoy. That was the hand Holmgren was dealt.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Campbell wasn't a FA. The Raiders gave up a 4th round pick for him.
#gmstrong
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And for every one of those "Super Bowl Winning, First Round Picks" there have been what 6-7 first round busts (thats for each one of those QB's).
True, but that "bust" % increases with each round too (and lately the bust % has decreased in the Top 50s if you have taken notice, GMs have figured a way to pick at least decent QB talent high)....picking a QB is a high risk but also high reward move and teams that don't have 1 have to go that route sooner or later.
A team that does not have a franchise QB needs 1, it's as simple as that...and the best % of landing one is the 1st round. Is Colt a franchise QB? If the answer is "I dont know yet" even from his fans then it's trending towards a big fat NO...or at least it's too much of an uncertainty...."Let's see, let's give him 1 more year!"-attitude has gotten us where exactly? Right, into another ""Let's see, let's give him 1 more year!"-scenario....meanwhile our QB play has sucked and been bottom 3rd in the league year after year after year...but yeah, "let's give the smallish 3rd round dude 1 more year"...maybe, hopefully
The ATL-trade has put us in a good situation...we can draft a QB and still have plenty of other valuable picks left to fill other areas...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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No, GM's have not figured out any new trick that reduces bust risk. What you may have seen is a statistical aberration where for a couple of years the bust percentage went down (and it will go back up/revert to the mean again), but when Jamarcus Russel is a consensus top 3 pick nothing at all has changed with the evaluation process.
Give Colt a decent WR target and some decent right side protection and see if he still stinks (and that can be done next year). If he still does, go get someone in the 2013 draft, who will get the benefits of the upgrades you made to the team anyways. But to waste a pick next year on a QB at this point is nothing more than a gamble.
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Campbell wasn't a FA. The Raiders gave up a 4th round pick for him.
Neither was Kolb. I should have said vets instead of FAs.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Russell had tremendous physical ability. He busted so hard and so quickly because he lacked any sort of work ethic whatsoever when he got to the NFL. I'm sure some signs were there, but you can't always predict how a person will react to being handed a $30 million check.
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j/c
My question to everyone is this:
What happened to all the faith in Holmgren being the QB guru? We can debate until we're blue in the face, but ultimately Holmgren makes the decisions and Colt is his boy.
So by saying you don't think Colt is the answer, are you also saying Holmgren does not know what he's doing? Or are you saying you know more about QB's than Holmgren and Heckert...
Just asking why all the debate about Colt...
Everyone makes mistakes. lol (J/K ... before everyone freaks out)
Hey, this is a discussion board. We discuss and debate what we see, what we thing, and how we expect certain players to play and develop. The QB, being central to everything the offense does, and being the most important piece of the team is naturally subject of more discussion than, say, the long snapper. Also, when the QB underperforms, people will have concerns. When the QB appears to be on a path that could be the same path traveled by many QBs who are selling insurance today, some people have concerns. This is the place for people to expres their concerns.
Further, Holmgren was sold on McCoy ..... and Heckert and Mangini kinda went along. (according to reports) We really have no idea where Heckert really had McCoy rated. Holmgren decided that one.
Here are the QBs drafted by Holmgren's teams ... although Ron Wolf was the GM in Green Bay, and was the one to trade for Brett Favre. I would guess that Holmgren did have very significant input into trading for Hasselbeck in Seattle. He didn't trade for him until 2001 though. Hasselbeck was originally a practice squad player. (how 'bout that)
Anyway ..... Seattle QBs drafted:
1999: 3rd round- Brock Huard
2001: 6th round -Josh Booty
2002: 7th round-Jeff Kelly
2003: 4th round-Seneca Wallace
2005: 3rd round-David Greene
I don't see any game changer in that list.
The Packers took:
1992: 9th round-Ty Detmer
1993: 5th round-Mark Brunell
1995: 5th round-Jay Barker
1996: 6th round-Kyle Wachholtz
1998: 6th round-Matt Hasselbeck (Traded to Seattle)
Decent talent there. Wolf, or Holmgren? I rather think it was Wolf, because Holmgren left because he wanted more control of the draft and personnel.
For whatever it's worth.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'd label myself as a Colt supporter, but I'm also on board with what you're saying.
If luck is there, and we have the ammo (draft picks) to go and get him, and we have the need, you go get him. Just as simple as you say. I'd say, if we're drafting in the top5, then that means Colt has done exactly what you and Toady said he would do, and we need a franchise QB. You go get luck. Let's say we end up drafting 5-10 (this is my prediction, specifically around the 8-10 spot).
The only heartache I would have is we would be burning our whole clip to go after one guy. That would really suck, and best case it's just a necessary evil. We have so many other needs, and areas that aren't needs, still aren't strengths. Point is, this draft could be used to plug ALOT of holes vs basically just grabbing one guy. I know that a franchise QB is hands down best in the long run, but there would still be heartache.
Living in San Diego, there's still talk about the Brees-Rivers incident. I don't remember what San Diego got back for Brees, but I'm going to assume they got the raw end of the deal given how Brees has turned out. The general consensus is that Brees was awful, but just needed extended time and to take a quite a few lumps before he had his big breakout. I won't draw parallels between Brees and McCoy, but I see us possibly being in the same situation if we go and grab Luck.
That being said, San Diego really isn't any worse for wear after that whole episode. Their struggles are not because of the decisions they made at QB.
Still, the best case scenario is for us to stick with McCoy, he pans out (what these threads are all about, I know), and we are able to address many needs in this draft and later drafts.
Hopefully, this season will tell us what path we need to take. Aside from the very basics of the QB position, there isn't enough data to tell us what we need to know.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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First, unless we give up the farm, we aren't getting Luck unless we are sitting at #1 (possibly #2 if say Carolina or maybe St. Louis ended up at 1). Otherwise, one of the Dolphins, Colts, Vikings, Seahawks, Broncos, or Chiefs will take Luck no trade possible. Second, Luck is not a sure thing (no QB is). And third, as you said, we have way too many other holes to address anyways (we can always bring in a vet temporarily if Colt completely bombs).
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I don't remember what San Diego got back for Brees
He left as a Free Agent... Besides compensatory picks... Nothing...
However... If you meant what San Diego got for Trading Eli Manning for Phillip Rivers... The answer would be Shawne Merriman, Nate Kaeding, and Roman Oben... 3 Pro Bowlers...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Nope, I was talking about Brees. Thanks for clearing that up (I suppose I could've just looked). Oh well.
My point is, they lost a lot of value/talent during that whole episode, which sucks, but on the other hand, they're still pretty happy with how they ended up.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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To be fair to San Diego, Brees didn't show ANY signs of being ANY sort of Top QB until AFTER they had drafted Rivers.
And if I recall, he had shown "In Spots" to be a viable starting option...
So Brees' FA comes up, and it's, Give Brees a huge deal (coming off shoulder surgery) while still having a 1st Rounder with potential on the roster... Or move on...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
We don't know yet whether he can be "the guy"...we simply don't know yet. We need to give it time...and we have no choice but to do so.
It's ok if fans have confidence in Colt but if so, why do you fear the competition of a 1st round QB? It's the most important position in this game, so it's never really a wasted pick (see above for "value")....why not have a "safety net" just in case Colt turns into Frye?
Well...who is the 1st round QB pick and who else is available at that pick?
Also, if we move to get Luck, what does the move cost? (The answer will simply be "too damn much".)
If there is a QB we like with one of our 1st Rounders, I won't mind if we take him. Provided that we have a plan that still allows us to address RT/S/CB/LB/DL etc. - whichever was not chosen with our other 1st pick.
If the draft were today, I would not take a QB until the 3rd...maybe even the 4th...I may feel differently after this entire season is over. Then again, I might even feel that way a year from today.
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Legend
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Legend
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There are way too many variables right now... But i'm a speculator...
If Colt doesn't vastly improve from what we've seen, we're probably going to be in the top 5 of the draft.
Depending on who's infront of us (Car, Stl for ex.) it would be "easier" to trade up.
If a team like Miami is there, I doubt theres ANY chance.
I'm not for "selling the farm" for Luck. But if we're #1, We take him, If we're top 5 and it's not a ridiculous offer (Im not giving up a later years #1) then you move up...
If we're 6-12 or whatever, I'd take a LONG look at say a Landry Jones, but I'm not DEFINATELY pulling the trigger on him...
But like I said... Variables...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
sounds like the asking price for Luck will be 3 firsts. If he's Elway or Rodgers, he's worth it. Heck, if he's Jim Kelly he's worth it.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
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its true...Brees only showed flashes (sound familiar?)
As for do we take a 1st rounder? eh...by the end of this season, we can decide if he is the guy. Options will be:
In the draft:
Andrew Luck
Matt Barkley
Landry Jones
Robert Griffin
Russell Wilson
Ryan Tannehill
Brandon Weedon
Kirk Cousins
Nick Foles
Ryan Lindley
Kellen Moore
BJ Coleman
Chandler Harnish
Dominique Davis
Case Keenum
Aaron Corp
Austin Davis
GJ Kinne
John Brantley
Stephen Garcia
Jordan Jefferson
Zach Collaros
Jarrett Lee
Jacory Harris
to name several
NFL Free Agents (predicted):
Kyle Boller
Jason Campbell
Kellen Clemens
Dennis Dixon
Trent Edwards
AJ Feeley
Rex Grossman
Shaun Hill
David Garrard
Luke McCown
Kyle Orton
Brady Quinn
Chris Redman
Alex Smith
Drew Stanton
DA
Richard Bartel
Mark Brunell
David Carr
Chase Daniel
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Matt Flynn
Caleb Hanie
Chad Henne
Brian Hoyer
Josh Johnson
Byron Leftwich
McNabb
Tyler Palko
Charlie Whitehurst
backups maybe with value of note:
John Beck
Curtis Painter
Tim Tebow
Jake Locker
Christian Ponder
Bruce Gradkowski
Billy Volek
Carson Palmer
Tyler Thigpen
Kevin O'Connel
Greg McElroy
Ryan Mallet
Stephen McGee
Jimmy Clausen
Of that list...idk who stands out as a bonafide starter:
I'd like:
Matt Flynn
Brian Hoyer
Ryan Mallet
Landry Jones
Russell Wilson
Case Keenum
Ryan Fitzpatrick (though he'll NEVER reach FA)
Robert Griffin
which of that list looks like itd be better than Colt McCoy?
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
People (from your lists) I'd take over McCoy RIGHT NOW.
Andrew Luck
Landry Jones
Ryan Tannehill (Maybe)
Kellen Moore (Colt clone?)
Jason Campbell
Shaun Hill
David Garrard
Kyle Orton
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Matt Flynn (Maybe)
Chad Henne
Jake Locker (Maybe)
Carson Palmer
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
jc
I'm going to out myself as a big Weeden fan...he'll be a 28yo rookie but he's pretty good...his age is pretty much his biggest and almost only negative but I really don't care...he is projected to go in round 3/4 now but I'm pretty sure his play and tape will push him into the Top 50 ultimately
Also like Griffin...no opinion yet on Barkley or L. Jones....not much of a Tannehill fan
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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j/c
I still don't get it. These Luck fanatics have already convinced some people that Luck is a can't miss. He's the answer. He's awesome. He's brilliant. He's a sure super bowl winner. He is everything.
And the guy hasn't played a down in the nfl.
Look back at the other "can't miss" qb's that were drafted first - or in the first round. Somebody explain to me how Luck is "can't miss".
Why sell the farm for a seed that looks good - when it hasn't been proven it will grow?
Ryan Leaf.
Jamarcus russel.
Vince young.
Akili Smith
Tim Couch.
Joey Harrington.
Heck, throw Quinn in - he was a "perfect" nfl qb. Supposedly.
The list goes on and on.
Where was Tom Brady drafted. (for some reason I want to say the 7th round.)
Brian Sipe: 13th round draft.
Hasselbeck: 6th round.
Brad Johnson: 9th round.
Kurt Warner - undrafted.
Roger Staubach: 10 round.
Fran Tarkenton - 3rd round.
Montana: 3rd round.
Johnny Unitas: 9th round.
I mean - seriously - can we finally just STOP with the "Luck is a sure thing" crap???????????
And some people would be willing to trade away 2, 3, even 4 first round picks for him? On a hit or miss basis, thereby screwing the Browns for the next how many drafts??? Honestly?
I hear all this crap about Luck. Sure, he's a great college qb. Big deal - I'm not selling out to get him. Not at the expense of the rest of the team.
Doesn't take a superstar qb to win a super bowl. Doesn't take a first round qb to win a super bowl, doesn't take a number 1 pick to win a super bowl. (look at montana, brady, staubach, theisman, etc)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,506
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,506 |
Because Luck plays a pro style offense, has superb accuracy, can make every throw, has prototypical size, has a plus arm, understands how to move in the pocket, sees the entire field, and can make throws in NFL windows. (from what I have read, and the few times I have seen him) He is a prototypical NFL QB without a real weakness. Most guys entering the draft have something that holds them back. Newton had no experience in an NFL style offense. Other guys had size ..... or interceptions in college .... or something that someone evaluating them could look at and say "aha". Luck really doesn't. He will be a great pro.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
Ryan Leaf.
Jamarcus russel.
Vince young.
Akili Smith
Tim Couch.
Joey Harrington.
Heck, throw Quinn in - he was a "perfect" nfl qb. Supposedly.
The list goes on and on.
I'm pretty sure none of those QBs were labeled "Can't Miss NFL Superstars"
Russel had the talent, but it was KNOWN that he may not have the drive or work ethic to do it...
And Quinn's big sell was the Pro Style offense and working with Wies...
But he still doesn't compare to Luck.
And I'm not even saying we should sell the farm for him.
But if we are there, you HAVE to take him.
If you have the chance, and don't take Luck, you might as well never take a QB in the 1st round ever again...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
I mean - seriously - can we finally just STOP with the "Luck is a sure thing" crap???????????
cmon Arch. take a breath. really deep one.
very few are saying he is a complete can't miss QB. those do not exist.
but, he is prototypical in everything. he has the height, accuracy, arm strength, runs a pro-style system, is calling his own plays, plays on a team w/ less talent than the rest of his conference (yet his offense has been unstoppable), and has met every single challenge that he has come across so far.
Ryan Leaf had question marks about his character. Lots more questions on everyone else on your list. Huge debates on those guys (Quinn dropped into the 20s for a reason afterall. JaMarcus opinions were extremely bipolar that year as well).
As for the QBs drafted later that succeeded. It has been shown on this board time and time again that 1st round QBs have a MUCH higher success rate than any other round. Yes, there will be QBs drafted later that succeed, but at a much lower rate.
So, in recap, Luck is not predestined for greatness. But, he is the most surefire QB to come out in a long time. We will see if he pans out.
Now, the Luck talk to me is silly becuase our 2 wins may have already taken us out of the Luck-sweepstakes (I don't see Holmgren overpaying for him, but I do see other teams doing it) and I do not expect us to end up with only 2 wins either.
#gmstrong
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